Intelligent Stories that don’t insult you

[pink_silk_glove]

The way I see it, not every story needs to be a long-term relationship. Sometimes a one-night stand can be great, or even a quick snog and grope in an empty hallway before you go your separate ways. A bit of fun that society tries to tell you is wrong, but you can't bring yourself to feel guilty over.

Themes of random hookups and one night stands are rampant in my work. (shrug)

 

[StillStunned]

Themes of random hookups and one night stands are rampant in my work. (shrug)

I wasn't referring to content. I was likening the story-reader relationship to a random hook-up.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I wasn't referring to content. I was likening the story-reader relationship to a random hook-up.

Ah, nice. Gotcha.

 

[yowser]

The writer/reader connection is as old as the written word. Its antecedent, the speaker/listener, is even more ancient.

Our age, with its technological and attention span elements, along with the anonymity facet, throws new challenges into the mix, but the connection factor remains the same. Seems to me a lot of what we grapple with in terms of how to appreciate the reception our stories manage still is based on very old frameworks.

Most of us have a story to tell. We like it (a lot) when readers enjoy what we've done, want more, perhaps even appreciate the granular levels of excellence we tried to include in our efforts. Writers, here and in the mainstream, are often self-centered, perhaps it’s even a necessary quality for achieving focus, and an old phrase goes something like this: the closest thing a writer knows as love is a regular reader. That's not quite fair, since if a story includes people the writer has to have a decent sense of human qualities and basic emotions and motives, so writers do know love.

The tools for evaluating story reception on Lit are blunt and often misleading, and have led to vast discussion here. Author motivations run a huge gamut, but I think a safe generalisation is that all of us like it when we feel appreciated.

Some of us operate better when intrinsic motivations are in play, others like the 'grading' and instant rush of high scores. I think a major job of any writer here is figuring out what they really want and then going after it.

The huge benefit to Lit, at least for me, is that it is a free-form, relatively low stress way to experiment, hone craft, try out ideas, expand horizons, and explore the very nature of arousal, which is far more complex than it either appears or ought to be. Field notes on particle physics attractions, so elemental and ethereal at the same time.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Now certainly a cross section of chat attitudes can't be considered super accurate parallel to the 99% of the readership who remain anonymous, but it is by far the closest comparison that we have. Let me tell you, they don't like plot. Oh, here and there some appreciate it but by and large, they hate it. They tell me so straight up. They're bored with my plot. "Why can't it just all be sex?" "Loved chapter 3! (hot sex in the bathroom stall), bored with chapter 1 (meeting the cast of characters)" "Boner killer!" Most of the folks in chat have been lurking reading the stories for years until they one day realize that there's a chat, so they wander into chat looking for the exact same smut that they're looking for in the stories. Now there are all kinds in the chat, but there is an overwhelming tendency to get to the fapping and dispense with the buildup. They also tell their personal fantasies and with no exaggeration 98% of them involve a guy literally getting lucky with a unicorn.

Now many of the folks here in AH don't want to hear this as it may damage an ego chuffed on the notion that the masses love them because of their skill on the smut and story sides equally, but I'm telling you, by and large, the anonymous masses are scrolling scrolling scrolling over your carefully crafted plot to get to the action, and if they have to scroll too much or too far, they're hitting the back button.

You're talking the numbers and making your case.

So show us the numbers in Chat versus the total readership on Lit, and reveal that 99%

Sure, we know the vote and comment count is depressingly low, but how do you know the chat numbers are any more representative of "what readers want"? Where's the analysis? You've stated it unequivocally, but you've not shown any data.

I've never looked in the chat rooms, so I have no clue. I'm not doubting your point of view, I just want to see the numbers that prove it. If you can't do that, your view on the matter is no more empirically based than mine.

Do chat users even read content here? I don't know. Perhaps all they're doing is chat? Again, I don't know, but I am asking, how do you "know"?

 

[ElectricBlue]

P.S. @electricblue66 (Is this the best way to ring their bell?)

Yes.

And I agree your point about people "mailing it in," phoning it in.

You can always tell, both when they're telling a story and the, "Oh God, I've got to put in another sex scene," moment arrives, and it's obvious it's been fitted in later; or when the ever so vague story line is "there" merely to provide a place for the stroke scene to fit.

Both are "outs" for me. The first, because if the writer is bored with the sex, that's going to show their hearts not in it, so why would they expect me to care about their story, their characters? And the second has no soul, because it's Tab A into Slot B, there's no intimacy, there's no humanity, it's all mechanics. Again, for me, that's not erotic.

Many writers here have commented about the first dilemma, and @pink_silk_glove appears to be arguing that the great masses of Lit only want the latter - but I note, writes plot rich stories themselves.

I'm quite content to write for my small niche, readers who do want intimacy with their sex. One of my favourite comments is this one:

Props be damned, I could use a cigarette after that. (And I haven't smoked since college!)

I love these two. They feel so desperately human. I'm very jealous of them. I can't wait to explore more of their sumptuous relationship. Although I will, because your stories have a lovely way of filling the mind for a good long while.

Ironically, that comment was received against one of the few stories where I set out to write a stroker, this proving I can't, not even to save my life.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Depends on how well you present your story. Nevertheless it sounds like a hopelessly boring plot that would need to be savagely well-written and probably laced with charm and humor to hold any of my interest at all. But then, who the fuck am I? Just one opinion (totally serious).

I've finally figured out what you've been saying. I thought you'd been scorning those writers who do put charm and humour into their stories, as if we're a bunch of pretentious fucks with our heads up our literary assholes.

Whereas I've now realised, from this thread, that you are exactly the same, just more cynical, and have spent far too long in the chat rooms. Which is why you hang out in the AH, I guess, because you want an intelligent audience...

It's been a light bulb moment, I can assure you .

 

[MajorRewrite]

Scroll up to what I wrote above. They tell me and I'm telling you: they want to stroke.

You’re assuming that the kind of people who choose to spend time in a chat room on an erotic website are representative of the far larger group of people who don’t choose to spend time in a chat room.

Personally, I thought chat rooms were a thing that went away 20 years ago.

 

[RejectReality]

The people who crave live interaction via adult chat are in no way representative of the readership on an erotica site — even when they both share a root domain. The drive to seek out live interaction in an adult space is unique. It's a drive akin to an addiction. The people who are really into it will rarely watch porn, let alone read it. It's completely lacking their primary endorphin trigger which is a live person reacting in real time.

The erotica space naturally leans toward people who want at least some minimal setup and storytelling. Otherwise, there's porn aplenty with visual and audio that jumps straight into the action. The exception being edgier fetishes that porn shies away from because the customer base isn't large enough to support the expense. Even then, the explosion of platforms like Only Fans provides a venue where that type of thing can be monetized on a smaller scale, making it viable compared to production porn.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

The people who crave live interaction via adult chat are in no way representative of the readership on an erotica site — even when they both share a root domain.

I suppose you'd know better than I ... since I've never seen you in the chat.

 

[RejectReality]

I suppose you'd know better than I ... since I've never seen you in the chat.

LOL I was an adult chat admin for a decade and a chatter for longer. It just brings back too many bittersweet memories nowadays, which counteracts the trigger of the high.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Yeah, but you're missing the point when it comes to incels, its all the fault of women. None of their behavior and loserdom is on them, its women.

And blessed be lit for deciding that the LW section should be the biggest haven on the internet for these jackals.

Firstly, I'm not convinced that 'that' LW crowd are incels - at least not of the stereotypical 28-year-old virgin type. I've always imagined them as divorced or in unhappy (and probably sexless marriages) - you could call them 're-cels'.

I just looked up the term “incel” and read about it. I have to say this- those people are idiots. They are angry about being denied sex, I get it. Well, guess what? Expressing wrath and other negative emotions is only going to get them further denied pleasure. And trolling is only going to make it worse. Not very wise people. I know I’ve been sexually frustrated at times but may I never get like that. And I intend to encourage others away from a similar path with all my power. You can’t force heaven on people, nor force people to accept it. To deny free will is to destroy the very essence of Good.

I know. The weird thing is, they’re fortifying their own prison by being arrogant imbeciles intent on inciting wrath. Instead of, I don’t know, maybe making a community to help people and give them sympathy and peace?

Well, since the arrival of the Internet, lonely men have arranged themselves into different communities. The three main ones are the Pick-up Artist community which tries to give advice to men about how to improve their success rate with women, the MGTOW community, which stresses self-improvement for its own sake rather than to attract a woman, and the incel community which tries to commiserate with each other about how hard dating is for certain types of people.

That paragraph above is the nicest or at least the most neutral thing that's ever been written on the Internet about any of the three communities. Society as a whole likes to put the boot into any man who isn't conventionally good at forming relationships naturally. And, of course, a good percentage of all three communities are complete assholes. There are certainly a number of potentially deranged individuals in those communities, for sure, but I think a lot of it is just edgelord letting off steam and gallows humour under the anonymity of the Internet. At the very least, they get a certain satisfaction from having their status raised from 'completely insignificant' to 'possibly dangerous'.

But there are a lot of genuinely tragic people in these communities as well. Men who struggle at making any kind of friends and thus have no social group to help them meet potential romantic partners or even just to sympathize with. Five-foot-nothing men who have no confidence due to being bullied all the way through school and then find that women are no kinder to them. Men on the spectrum who spend every conversation acutely aware that they are failing to disguise their autism from the girl of their dreams. Men with literal micro-penises who know that, even if a miracle occurs, any sexual encounter is unlikely to be a success. Men who come from abusive homes and never grew up having healthy relationships modeled for them. Men who have failed at or been failed by education and have little to no employment prospects.

And, of course, you can always point to men who had one or more of these issues and still found a partner. But, equally and increasingly, you can also point to men who didn't and went through life alone. Society's answer is always for them to 'do better', in some vague, unspecified way. Supposing one of these guys hits the gym, buys themselves a new wardrobe, and takes up a new and exciting hobby (that they don't really enjoy as much as staying home with their miniature railway, but, nevertheless...). Most of the incels have gone on a self-improvement drive at some point and when it doesn't work...you can't expect immediate results, you just have to keep at it for another few years, sweetie - and obviously any steps that were taken were insufficient/deficient in some way.

(Of course, the 'incel' community is a self-selecting group...when somebody does improve themselves enough to actually get an amenable lady friend, they are soon, by definition, not incels anymore and unlikely to hang around their old forums.)

It's interesting to me that the one group of men the incels generally exclude are the overweight, saying that if all that is all that is basically wrong with you then it's easily fixed and you've only yourself to blame.

Ultimately, society isn't very good at creating healthy communities, support networks, or opportunities for these people. Dating is something you are supposed to be able to do on your own, but a large number of guys simply can't, not without a failure rate that is absolutely crushing. (Yes, women have problems too, perhaps even more, some similar some completely different) After all, there's little incentive for society to help, society is made of men and women, and other men don't want the competition and women as absolutely convinced there is someone out there for you, but not me, oh dear Lord no. In recent years, even the phrase 'nice guy' has been weaponized against no-hopers.

[In case anyone is wondering A) I've been happily married for the last ten years. B) Yes, I did once go to a speed dating event where zero out of twelve women wanted 'to take things further'. That I later learned that the organizers had been struggling to fill their first event with women and a lot of them were personal friends who were roped in and not interested in dating is what, I believe, incels call 'industrial grade copium'.]

 

[AchtungNight]

I have been a person like an incel (an OG incel, not the hateful type) for a long time without being aware of these communities you mention. Heh. Not going to say more, just congrats to you on finding love. Also I’ve decided I’m allergic to copium. Hope no one ever tries it on me. Genuine interest is something I have experienced and was far preferable- I will hope for more of it someday. Nuff said.

 

[yowser]

Well, I had to lookup 'MGTOW' and 'copium.'

Think my research for the day is done.

 

[Gamblnluck]

I can't understand quitting a story over a 5-10 word description of a character scanning a room, at all. Bizarre, really. I guess I could understand if the style is overly descriptive and wordy throughout, but that's something I'd realize over paragraphs or a page. If it got to be too much, sure I could see someone deciding it's not for them. But noping out over one particular clause in a sentence? Weird.

I didn't mean I quit reading just for that. But that type of writing generally goes on and on throughout the story. If it continues I quit. I often see authors so involved with word-smithing, they hide the story. Describing the MC down to his argyle socks is not necessary unless it proves a direct obvious point.

 

[Gamblnluck]

Wow. I am almost embarrassed to say that I don't even look at stories that are below 7-8k words. And it is a bare minimum for me to even click on a story with all the right tags.

You are missing out on some good stories then. I do not scan the morning read by tags either, mainly I am particularly bad about my own use of tags. I use two or three but that is all. I read a few categories first, scanning for the better ratings or a title and description that catches my eye.Unless I recognize the author and like his work. I don't follow anybody either.

 

[Gamblnluck]

Sorry, again, newbie to the forum world of Literotica. What is an "H rated story?" Just point me to where these things are defined.
tia!

If your story rates above a 4.5, it gets an H. That does not mean the story is a great read. Sometimes it is nothing but a hot sex scene and a few people rating it while jerking off give it a 5. A lot of the time, a story is rated by subject matter or how the characters appeal to the reader than anything else. I've had stories rate low in early chapters and then when I finish the series, I see those ratings rise a bit.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

You are missing out on some good stories then. I do not scan the morning read by tags either, mainly I am particularly bad about my own use of tags. I use two or three but that is all. I read a few categories first, scanning for the better ratings or a title and description that catches my eye.Unless I recognize the author and like his work. I don't follow anybody either.

Some of those short stories might be good, sure, but I am not really missing out because they are not my thing. To enjoy something, I need to immerse myself and I need to enjoy the buildup and I need characters to be fleshed out. That is not something that can be done in 4-5K words, in my opinion. I understand some people feel differently, but de gustibus non disputandum est.

 

[Gamblnluck]

Yes, no, absolutely. I meant to say that. I only wanted to talk about where the incel movement comes from and how it operates. I don't want to get into a political kerfuffle in AH. Or anywhere on Literotica, really.

I am amused at all the finger pointing by commenters at the author or even other readers calling them incels. I'd say a very large proportion of the readers here (especially early in the day) are retired or semi retired currently or formerly married. Not incels at all. I've been called one many times because I did not portray the woman in the story in the 'best light'. No kidding. The story was about a 'cheating bitch' told from her self-claimed virtuous husband's POV. Her reasons might or might not be germane to the story, so many times are not even mentioned. I had to look up the term Incel a few months ago. Or I get hit with comments about femdom agitprop.

 

[Gamblnluck]

So you're only writing for applause, not to be critiqued. That's fine. You care about the scores and the faves and such. If you want more of that, you'll have to attract the other 99%.

Not at all. Most of us write to tell a story. Ratings are merely a validation of that effort. Only a portion of readers bother to rate a story even though it amazingly easy.
One reason views outstrip people rating is that the reader may come back to the story several times before finishing it. That is particularly true of a longer story. The first time view might just be to get a preview to see if the story looks interesting or to read the tags. Each of those visits constitute a view.

 

[theWollstonecraftWoman]

I just looked up the term “incel” and read about it. I have to say this- those people are idiots. They are angry about being denied sex, I get it. Well, guess what? Expressing wrath and other negative emotions is only going to get them further denied pleasure. And trolling is only going to make it worse. Not very wise people. I know I’ve been sexually frustrated at times but may I never get like that. And I intend to encourage others away from a similar path with all my power. You can’t force heaven on people, nor force people to accept it. To deny free will is to destroy the very essence of Good.

I won't change what I write about to avoid the incels of the world. My reasons for writing about interracial and cuckolding are as old as my first marriage (don't get married when you're 18). The anger at him (my first jerk of a husband) is long gone, and yet emasculating him in stories never gets old. I have a tremendous backlog of these kinds of stories. I rework them and send them off to my editor/publisher, and they post them. When the stories have been out for a while, I post them here.

The publisher has asked me to experiment with other types of stories. Hence, my Vampire series. I'll add to that. I have a romantic interracial story, but again, it's an unhappy, cheating wife with a pure jerk of a husband. It's not gone anywhere because it's all in secret. I just can't figure out what needs to happen on it. I tried to write a Western, but I had miserable results. I'm going to delve into something different at some point. But for me, not anyone else. In the end, my writing has to make me happy, or why do it?

 

[MelissaBaby]

I suppose you'd know better than I ... since I've never seen you in the chat.

I had never been in the chat rooms, so yesterday I thought I'd check them out. I looked in on about a dozen rooms, and nowhere did I see anyone discussing anything to do with the stories on the site. Where is that taking place?

 

[NoTalentHack]

I had never been in the chat rooms, so yesterday I thought I'd check them out. I looked in on about a dozen rooms, and nowhere did I see anyone discussing anything to do with the stories on the site. Where is that taking place?

Unrelated, but is there a guide to customizing sigs here? I see folks with images in their sigs, more than four lines, etc., and I'd like to tweak mine more.

 

[AchtungNight]

I won't change what I write about to avoid the incels of the world. My reasons for writing about interracial and cuckolding are as old as my first marriage (don't get married when you're 18). The anger at him (my first jerk of a husband) is long gone, and yet emasculating him in stories never gets old. I have a tremendous backlog of these kinds of stories. I rework them and send them off to my editor/publisher, and they post them. When the stories have been out for a while, I post them here.

The publisher has asked me to experiment with other types of stories. Hence, my Vampire series. I'll add to that. I have a romantic interracial story, but again, it's an unhappy, cheating wife with a pure jerk of a husband. It's not gone anywhere because it's all in secret. I just can't figure out what needs to happen on it. I tried to write a Western, but I had miserable results. I'm going to delve into something different at some point. But for me, not anyone else. In the end, my writing has to make me happy, or why do it?

My attempts at writing Westerns haven’t worked out great either, and I’m actually from Texas.

I get why women want to emasculate men in writing, and why some men want to do the equivalent to women. But neither has ever been a turn-on for me. Forgive me if I avoid your work. If you can direct me to stories I might enjoy, try, and I might give you a chance. Sorry, being honest, hope that’s ok.

 

[theWollstonecraftWoman]

My attempts at writing Westerns haven’t worked out great either, and I’m actually from Texas.

I get why women want to emasculate men in writing, and why some men want to do the equivalent to women. But neither has ever been a turn-on for me. Forgive me if I avoid your work. If you can direct me to stories I might enjoy, try, and I might give you a chance. Sorry, being honest, hope that’s ok.

Honesty is always the best policy. You can check out A Small Sacrifice it is the first part of my Vampire Stories the Sacrifice Tales. The second part will be my Halloween Contest Entry and it is already ready, already, cued up waiting for the go-live date.