Max Hardcore

[Ebonyfire]

Well thank you very much for the compliment. I am still surprised to see a BDSM community respond like this though. I mean, I honestly expected you guys to be much more hardcore than me. My girlfriend and I have never actually done anything really painful or lots of other things BDSM lovers often engage in.

Why be surprised? Not everyone into BDSM is into the S & M part of it.

Most people here are into the D/s side, and are into power exchanges between Dominant and submissive. I do not see how being involved with D/s would make me more of less "hardcore". The relationship between hardcore porn and BDSM is a tenuous one at best.

Ebony

 

[NemoAlia]

This is what I found misogynistic, in its implication that women are universally 'bitches' or 'deserving' of humiliation: "how to bone the bitches right!" Rhetoric of this nature fails to address the personal nature of D/s relationships. Moreover, it condones a sort of thoughtless acceptance of misogyny.

On top of that, gender isn't his only source of power. A lot of the movies feature other sources of authority other than the "Max the alpha male", like "Max the truant officer", "Max the doctor" and so forth.

In my opinion, the role that a male plays in films of this nature is often just a transparent veil over the pervading theme of misogyny.

The simple fact of the matter is some girls like getting humiliated, punished and generally treated like whores and bitches. My girlfriend does.

Yes, certainly. There is a fine distinction between personal preference and a capitulation to someone else's desires. I cannot speak to an individual's motivations for acting in a film of this nature. However, I do believe that women have historically gone to great lengths to appeal to men (who, particularly in the porn industry, are still at the top of the food chain) on the men's own terms. Women have taught themselves to want for themselves what men would like them to want, since that gives them a better chance of survival in the current social structure.

I know I might be close to stepping on some people's toes here, since it's true that several of us do like to be humiliated, etc. Why? Well, for some people, it really is a capitulation to their partner's desires. However, I don't think there are many lit folks who would admit to that one. Most of us say it's a personal decision, based on too many factors to count or to list here. Either way, most lifestylers give a lot of thought to their submission, and cherish it as a gift that they give as individuals to other individuals. We don't see ourselves as a group defined according to the accidental common characteristic of gender -- which is how, I believe, Max Hardcore presents things.

Max Hardcore, in my opinion, oversimplifies BDSM in very dangerous manner. It's as though someone were to write, "Come watch these black people sweat in the hot sun! See them get what they deserve!" I mean, yes, some African-Americans do choose to build things and to grow things. However, if they do choose these jobs, it has nothing to do with the color of their skin; nor do they 'deserve' it in any way.

Each person deserves to choose his own way of living that isn't defined by someone else's thoughtless stereotypes. Max Hardcore's films (not the acts in them -- these can take place in real life, as part of real D/s relationships) endanger this right. Therefore, I cannot approve of his work as a pornographer.

 

[Lancecastor]

Bitchin' Lines, Nemo!

1. In my opinion, the role that a male plays in films of this nature is often just a transparent veil over the pervading theme of misogyny.


2. Therefore, I cannot approve of his work as a pornographer.

1. What about "The Pizza Delivery Guy" with the disco guitar riff in the background? How is he misogynistic?

2. I just like the way that sounded.....it has a JD Power ring to it "Not Approved by the NemoAlia Institute of Pron Quality Assurance".

Teehee;
Lance

 

[NemoAlia]

Lance, surely you don't believe I'm that euphemistic as to mean "all porn flicks" by "films of this nature," do you?

No, I meant just "offensive pseudo-BDSM films."

 

[Lancecastor]

Lance, surely you don't believe I'm that euphemistic as to mean "all porn flicks" by "films of this nature," do you?

No, I meant just "offensive pseudo-BDSM films."

Nah....well, maybe. I dunno.

I see all pron flix as being basically the same dull stuff anyway, so when you start breaking it down into categories, you lose me.

To me it's mostly ugly guys with big wangers delivering pizza to silicon enhanced low-intell abused young women on drugs while a fat white guy makes bales of cash off demeaning them all.

But that's just my view based on my ten years producing the stuff.

Ha!

Lance

 

[MzChrista]

Nah....well, maybe. I dunno.

I see all pron flix as being basically the same dull stuff anyway, so when you start breaking it down into categories, you lose me.

To me it's mostly ugly guys with big wangers delivering pizza to silicon enhanced low-intell abused young women on drugs while a fat white guy makes bales of cash off demeaning them all.

But that's just my view based on my ten years producing the stuff.

Ha!

Lance

Quit braggin. You know you was just the fluffer.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Quit braggin. You know you was just the fluffer.

Dammit Mzc, it is soo unfair.

Maybe I need to drink less. Getting old is a bitch. I leak too damn much!
Eb

 

[NemoAlia]

What about "The Pizza Delivery Guy" with the disco guitar riff in the background? How is he misogynistic?

Okay, yeah, you're right. So perhaps porn flicks (in general, this time, since they do all bear remarkable similarities to each other) are not only misogynist but also misanthropic (in the literal, 'opposite of misogynist' sense of the word). As much as they degrade women, they insult men and their intelligence, desires, and awareness.

 

[Lancecastor]

Okay, yeah, you're right. So perhaps porn flicks (in general, this time, since they do all bear remarkable similarities to each other) are not only misogynist but also misanthropic (in the literal, 'opposite of misogynist' sense of the word). As much as they degrade women, they insult men and their intelligence, desires, and awareness.

I just find them boring.

A pal of mine used to do one of those live internet sex shows bounced off servers in amsterdam, so I'd hang out at the "studio" now and then for the beers and conversation, but it was like watching paint dry for the most part.

 

[James Blandings]

Re: You will find....

...Marquis, that this is an "interesting" place.

I recommend you read the Sticky at the top of the Board.

Then re-read it, switching everything to the hypocritical negative, as in Orwell's 1984.....when it says the group here is "open and inclusive", for example, read "closed and exclusive".

I leave it to you to form your own opinions as to what you see here in the fullness of time and experience.

Me, though I'm not much for hardcore porn, I dig D/s power exchanges and kink, am interested in seeing you stick around and continuing to speak your mind freely for partially selfish reasons:

1. There aren't many men here with a voice; it's a female dominated community;

2. There is a fairly tight knit group of "oldies" here that run off newbies, especially those who espouse anything other than "their" brand of online BDSM, through just about every cheap trick in the book;

3. There are many who lurk here and don't post because of fear of what They will say, and you dont seem shaken by that prospect;

4. You seem to have backbone & a sense of humour, also relatively rare commodities here;

5. You actually practise real life BDSM and/or kink, and there are plenty here who talk all day in lengthy posts about taking first steps but have done diddly, which gets dull;

6. The Moderators can be heavy-handed, superior and bossy, particularly Cym, and very few get past scraping before her or leaving. In my case, thankfully, she ignores me. They have no real authority, so feel free to ignore them if you want. The owners have them watch for legal violations only as far as I can tell.

Those are my selfish, self serving reasons.

But, above all, I believe in Fun, Kink, Free Speech, the Internet, Debate and the Exchange of Diverse Ideas and I hope you do too.

Thanks for listening; all the best;
Lance

Do you ever get tired of your own bullshit?

 

[A Desert Rose]

Not me

I have not gotten tired of his bullshit yet. I find him funny and irreverant. I also see that he often loves to push buttons for the sake of doing so and for the shear delight he gets in ruffling people up. He truly is an onery little boy. I cannot believe I am the only one who can see that endearing quality. As a matter of fact, I know I am not.

Maybe, a little less sobriety and a few more chuckles, especially about posts and posters one does not agree with or like, would be in order. If I don't like a poster or their words, I ignore them.

I have enough "reality" to deal with in my daily life to let people and opinions here disrupt me. I bet you do too, Mr.Blandings.

Repectfully,
Rose

 

[subtledecadence]

Hmph, where to start...
Porn to me is mostly all the same thing. You have some girl giving a man head, then they fuck. Sometimes there is anal, sometimes a lil slap on the ass here and there. Then you have Max Hardcore. I'm not talking about the website. I've never even seen it. I'm speaking of his porn flicks. I've seen them all, and when my Dominant rents a flick for U/us to see, I ask for Max Hardcore specifically. Not because I believe that they are representitive of the lifestyle W/we have chosen, but because I believe they ARE representitive of a certain type of kink that SOME in the BDSM Community enjoy. Porn is NOT real. It is fiction, and Max Hardcore reminds you of this at the beginning of his flicks. I do not believe you would ever be able to capture the true essence of BDSM in any real way in a porn. What Max Hardcore does is more in the line of Humiliation, and Rough Sex, with corny commentary in between. I think Max Hardcore pushes the limits on "permissible" viewing material for ADULTS... and I applaud him for it.
I do however think too many people read WAY too much into porn. Just because Max Hardcore, in his films, treats the women in them like they are the "fuck toys" he calls them, does that have to mean that in his day-to-day life that is how he feels about them, or treats them? Almost ALL porns show the men in them treating women like "fuck toys", because Porn's are made for and by Men, with no basis in reality. If your waiting for gender equality to happen in a Porn, your going to be waiting a good long time.
In the meantime, the rest of U/us will just have to stick with viewing the "Unholy Desecration & Violation of women" @ Marquis (Wow did I like that line).

Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

...it is only when You make me suffer that I feel safe and secure. You have already seen me cry, Now you must learn to relish my tears....The Story of O

There is a pleasure that is born of pain. O Merideth

 

[Marquis]

Why be surprised? Not everyone into BDSM is into the S & M part of it.

Most people here are into the D/s side, and are into power exchanges between Dominant and submissive. I do not see how being involved with D/s would make me more of less "hardcore". The relationship between hardcore porn and BDSM is a tenuous one at best.

Ebony

Max ties his women up all the time. He dominates them, they submit to him and they love the abuse as much as he loves bringing the pain. I think thats all the letters in the acronym if I'm not mistaken. I am not judging anyone for not liking him, I am just surprised people who are into BDSM are so turned off by him.

This is what I found misogynistic, in its implication that women are universally 'bitches' or 'deserving' of humiliation: "how to bone the bitches right!" Rhetoric of this nature fails to address the personal nature of D/s relationships. Moreover, it condones a sort of thoughtless acceptance of misogyny.

Max Hardcore isn't a sociologist, he's a pornographer. He feeds my girlfriend and I's desire to see women fucked like whores and thats it. We are smart enough to go other places for our learning. Max Hardcore doesn't condone thoughtlessness on mysogyny anymore than The Matrix condones shooting security guards. Moreover, this personal nature of D/s that you speak of is impossible to show in a short video, and probably undesirable. I love my girlfriend more than anything else in the world, but if I tell her I love her during some of our play it ruins the atmosphere.

In my opinion, the role that a male plays in films of this nature is often just a transparent veil over the pervading theme of misogyny.

Those are some big words for a little girl (I am, of course, kidding).

I have to agree with you there. The general motif in Max's domination of people is his contempt for women. However, I still think it is merely a vehicle to carry the D/s theme. It just happens to be a very present and convenient one. Most black BDSM pornographers use race as a vehicle in their domination of white women. Politically incorrect maybe, but really harmless and kind of fun if you are smart enough to discern fantasy from reality.

Yes, certainly. There is a fine distinction between personal preference and a capitulation to someone else's desires. I cannot speak to an individual's motivations for acting in a film of this nature. However, I do believe that women have historically gone to great lengths to appeal to men (who, particularly in the porn industry, are still at the top of the food chain) on the men's own terms. Women have taught themselves to want for themselves what men would like them to want, since that gives them a better chance of survival in the current social structure.

Well... firstly, I think you are still ignoring the tremendous amount of women who probably love working with him. My girlfriend makes me imitate his actions all the time. I think you may be contradicting yourself here. While it is true that many women have forced themselves to be submissive because they think that is what men want, it is also true that many women are submissive because thats what they want. Then when misguided feminists make them feel guilty about these feelings they are being as limited by their peers as they are by men. A famous feminist once said in response to a question about women choosing to be housewives; "the goal of feminism is not to tell women what to be, but to give them the freedom to be whatever they want."

Max Hardcore, in my opinion, oversimplifies BDSM in very dangerous manner. It's as though someone were to write, "Come watch these black people sweat in the hot sun! See them get what they deserve!" I mean, yes, some African-Americans do choose to build things and to grow things. However, if they do choose these jobs, it has nothing to do with the color of their skin; nor do they 'deserve' it in any way.

No, but if someone got off on that it really wouldn't be too big of a deal as long as they still voted democrat as far as I was concerned. I am racially mixed and have played racially inspired BDSM games with white and black girls. I've called girls by little nigger bitch before as well as asked a white girl what a big black dick tastes like. I know this may sound distasteful to a lot of you, but neither of these women had any kind of prejudices or anything of the sort, comments like that just add to the BDSM game's poignancy.

Each person deserves to choose his own way of living that isn't defined by someone else's thoughtless stereotypes. Max Hardcore's films (not the acts in them -- these can take place in real life, as part of real D/s relationships) endanger this right. Therefore, I cannot approve of his work as a pornographer.

This doesn't make any sense. Are you saying you would condone Max's actions if there wasn't a camera in front of him while he did them? His videos don't endanger anyone's right to choose their way of living, no one is forced to watch him, he isn't even easy to find. And if you are making the claim that any form of art has a responsibility to uphold societal values (a claim which is extremely difficult to make, and has been pretty much trashed in this country for centuries) then I would say you have much bigger fish to fry. How about the television and music industries that actually carry some kind of social legitimacy?

Saying Max endangers us by putting out his videos is equivalent to me saying you endanger us by using the masculine pronoun for a person as neutral in the first sentence of this paragraph. You don't stop me from saying "her".

 

[subtledecadence]

P.S. I haven't either...

2 more quick cents....
I'm not tired of Lancecastor either. Though I'm new to Posting on Literotica, I have been reading the posts in many different threads. I have to say Lancecastor is one of my favorites Your definately not the only one Desert Rose *smiles*

*ducks back out of the thread*

subtledecadence

 

[CarolineOh]

Re: Not me

I have not gotten tired of his bullshit yet. I find him funny and irreverant. I also see that he often loves to push buttons for the sake of doing so and for the shear delight he gets in ruffling people up. He truly is an onery little boy. I cannot believe I am the only one who can see that endearing quality. As a matter of fact, I know I am not.

Maybe, a little less sobriety and a few more chuckles, especially about posts and posters one does not agree with or like, would be in order. If I don't like a poster or their words, I ignore them.

I have enough "reality" to deal with in my daily life to let people and opinions here disrupt me. I bet you do too, Mr.Blandings.

Repectfully,
Rose

You might feel differently if you were the target of his attacks.

 

[CarolineOh]

Re: P.S. I haven't either...

2 more quick cents....
I'm not tired of Lancecastor either. Though I'm new to Posting on Literotica, I have been reading the posts in many different threads. I have to say Lancecastor is one of my favorites Your definately not the only one Desert Rose *smiles*

*ducks back out of the thread*

subtledecadence

I come to this forum to learn, and to share what I have learned myself. I go out of my way to be helpful to others, and I do my best to be welcoming to newcomers.
But I have to consider that anything I write will be twisted, and my character slurred, by this man. How many snide comments did he make about me yesterday, three, four?
But apparently, that is just fine, because it provides some of you with amusement.
So have fun, but don't laugh at his assaults, and then smile at me in other threads, because I'm tired of the hypocrisy.

 

[Lancecastor]

Today's Snide Comment Count ....

I come to this forum to learn, and to share what I have learned myself. I go out of my way to be helpful to others, and I do my best to be welcoming to newcomers.
But I have to consider that anything I write will be twisted, and my character slurred, by this man. How many snide comments did he make about me yesterday, three, four?
But apparently, that is just fine, because it provides some of you with amusement.
So have fun, but don't laugh at his assaults, and then smile at me in other threads, because I'm tired of the hypocrisy.

...in this thread stands at:

CarolineOh 2 LanceCastor 0

You're whining again, darling.

Please stop following me around, scrounging for VictimizationFuel.

It's boring and will age your skin prematurely.

Other than that scowl....you look lovely today by the way.

Feeling your pain; *hugs* always;

Lance "Your Secret Desire" Castor

 

[A Desert Rose]

Re: Today's Snide Comment Count ....

...in this thread stands at:

CarolineOh 2 LanceCastor 0

You're whining again, darling.

Please stop following me around, scrounging for VictimizationFuel.

It's boring and will age your skin prematurely.

Other than that scowl....you look lovely today by the way.

Feeling your pain; *hugs* always;

Lance "Your Secret Desire" Castor

~~~~~~~~~~Sheesh, he never calls me darling and I have the cutest feet in the place.
Off to pout now,
Rose

 

[cymbidia]

I come to this forum to learn, and to share what I have learned myself. I go out of my way to be helpful to others, and I do my best to be welcoming to newcomers.
But I have to consider that anything I write will be twisted, and my character slurred, by this man. How many snide comments did he make about me yesterday, three, four?
But apparently, that is just fine, because it provides some of you with amusement.
So have fun, but don't laugh at his assaults, and then smile at me in other threads, because I'm tired of the hypocrisy.

C Oh, ignore him.
He is perennially cruel and unkind to some of us here, and that will not change. Sometimes his assaults are focused and vicious, sometimes he simply uses us to get laughs. You know that every single time you respond to one of his deliberate provocations, you're giving him the attention he craves.

So ignore him, darlin'.
Ignore his taunts, ignore his nasty asides, ignore his pokings, ignore his platitudes.

Those who know this place and the kind of conversations we have here will know, too, what place he holds. They will know who adds to the worth and value of this place, and in what way. They will know who the big talkers are, who it is that stirs shit just to be unkind. They will know who actually has something of worth to say.

Those who are new to this place will learn.

C Oh, nothing you can say will change Lance's ongoing and deliberate determination to be as unkind as is possible to some of us here but you can control the way in which you allow him to influence you. You have that strength.

 

[Lancecastor]

Re: Re: Today's Snide Comment Count ....

~~~~~~~~~~Sheesh, he never calls me darling and I have the cutest feet in the place.
Off to pout now,
Rose

Hi Twink;

Please don't pout....hey, love the new av...pedicure tonite over some wine, perhaps?

CarolineOh?.....oh, well, was one of the first people who ever PM'd me here....she does indeed make a point of getting to know the new people here.

Sadly, I disagreed with her at some point, and the rest is history.

I think of CarolineOh as a bitchy kinky soap opera ex-wife domme character that acts sweet and sub around the crowds or men with money. She's easily wound up. Probably cries a lot, then yells like a banshee at her man off-set.

IRL, she's probably a fine person.

Just my humble opinion.

Lance

 

[Lancecastor]

Well said, Cym!

I would be truly pleased if you could keep CarolineOh away from me with her false, attention seeking whining about the things I say.

Her whining at me always begs a poke in return.

The two of you should invent a WhippingBoy character of your own to publicly whine about here.

But it's not me.

I'm not interested in the gig.

So, please, fuck off with the sulking at me.

Go express your views and stop taking differing views as personal affronts.

Morons.

*Hugs*

Lance

C Oh, ignore him.
He is perennially cruel and unkind to some of us here, and that will not change. Sometimes his assaults are focused and vicious, sometimes he simply uses us to get laughs. You know that every single time you respond to one of his deliberate provocations, you're giving him the attention he craves.

So ignore him, darlin'.
Ignore his taunts, ignore his nasty asides, ignore his pokings, ignore his platitudes.

Those who know this place and the kind of conversations we have here will know, too, what place he holds. They will know who adds to the worth and value of this place, and in what way. They will know who the big talkers are, who it is that stirs shit just to be unkind. They will know who actually has something of worth to say.

Those who are new to this place will learn.

C Oh, nothing you can say will change Lance's ongoing and deliberate determination to be as unkind as is possible to some of us, here, but you can control the way in which you allow to influence you. You have that strength.

 

[Lancecastor]

For Cym & CarolineOh.....

......Gals, you've been back for a week and you're at it again. Keep it up at your own peril; I'm not the one who will go running away for a few weeks to seek attention.

Marquis, sorry for the intrusion.

Gals, there's a thread I started entitled "This is not a chat room", inspired by the "Etiquette" thread I started before that.

They are both high-volume threads, full of interesting and *gasp* fun, too.

Here's the piece of the Sticky you two ought to think about, then go post to "This is not a Chat Room" if you can do so without making it personal:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In this forum, our focus is on BDSM sexuality as it’s played out in real life, skin-to-skin relationships. We’re not a chat room and don’t wish to be a place where chat room type BDSM dialogue occurs within our threads and permeates our discussions.

We're not psychatrists, though, or therapists; if you need one of those, you'll have to find them elsewhere.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Here's how I feel about the baloney you keep levelling at Me, lifted from one of my threads:



Let's be clear....I like submissive women....lots and lots. Read my sig.

I don't much like being called out by anal retentives, snobs, harpies and whiners, regardless of their gender or sexual preferences.

And sure, I think this is primarily a support group for whining unhappy women who don't much like het men....but that doesn't mean I don't like submissive women, my duck.

And sure, I find the words of the Sticky hypocritical in the face of all the bashing and pushing away of people who beg to differ with Cym and a few others....but most people are tired of hearing about that at this point, so for me it's not a big deal....it's just a view I hold.

And if people want to get angry and call me names over it, I'll make fun of them if I feel like it.

And sometimes I'll write a direct, serious note, like this one.

And sometimes I'll get pissy and blow a gasket.

And then I'll go back and edit it later.

But mostly, I figure if you can't say what you really think on a free-speech internet porn site.....well, where can you say what you think?


~~~~~~~~~~

If you'd like to talk about these things, go to my thread(s) and do so, as others have.

But if you're looking for pain for fun or whatever turns your schoolgrrl cranks, go see Tex & Sam IRL.

I'm not interested in either of you at a personal level.

But if you have something cogent to say in discussion or debate, I'm all ears and full of cogent responses.

Thanks Marquis.

Cheers;

Lance

 

[subtledecadence]

Excuse the HELL out of me...

Originally posted by CarolineOh: I come to this forum to learn, and to share what I have learned myself. I go out of my way to be helpful to others, and I do my best to be welcoming to newcomers. So have fun, but don't laugh at his assaults, and then smile at me in other threads, because I'm tired of the hypocrisy.

CarolineOh, correct me if I am wrong, but did I not state that I was NEW to Literotica? Therefore, how am I to know that YOU have a problem with Lancecastor? And how does your problem then translate to mean MY problem? Simple, it doesn't. Nor does the fact that I have said I actually enjoy what He has to say translate to mean I would find amusement in someone attacking a particular person. I simply stated my opinion, which I believe when I was welcomed on the New Faces Thread, was something I was encouraged to do, and to do so Honestly. How is anyone to learn ANYTHING in this forum, if when one Man states His opinion on a subject, not 1, not 2, but 3 seperate people jump His ass? By the way, I do not believe that dragging a newbie into an old and seemingly ongoing "chat-match" is very welcoming.

Of course, thats just my opinion. I could be wrong.

subtledecadence

P.S.
A Desert Rose, could you PM me, and tell me how to do the "originally posted by..." thing? *laughs*. As you can see, I've no clue.

...it is only when You make me suffer that I feel safe and secure... You have already seen me cry. Now You must learn to relish my tears...The Story of O

There is a pleasure that is born of pain. O Merideth

 

[Marquis]

Does anyone else want to talk about Max Hardcore, because if not I am just going to unsubscribe this thread?

 

[cymbidia]

Sorry Marquis but many of those who post in this forum tend to wander around a lot in threads that the authors don't keep tightly focused. Even then there's a lot of off-topic discussion that happens.

You could try to herd this one back on track...