Max Hardcore

[Marquis]

I thought thats what I was doing.

 

[Lancecastor]

I wonder what Max Hardcore....

Sorry Marquis but many of those who post in this forum tend to wander around a lot in threads that the authors don't keep tightly focused. Even then there's a lot of off-topic discussion that happens.

You could try to herd this one back on track...

....would say in this case?

Smooth blame-shift attempt, Cym....I don't think Max would buy it though...he'd be bonin' the bitches that tried that, I'd suggest.


Lance

PS You can't undo your own thread, Marquis....god knows I've tried.

 

[NemoAlia]

Max Hardcore isn't a sociologist, he's a pornographer.

Yes, true. And you're right to point out that it can be fun to watch his work. In fact, although I agree with Lance that it's generally boring, I have no objections to the films themselves or to anyone's involvement in them (the subs included). However, I do object to the way that he (via his website) presents them. This, more than any acting done on camera, leads me to condemn him for thoughtless misogyny.

Most black BDSM pornographers use race as a vehicle in their domination of white women. Politically incorrect maybe, but really harmless and kind of fun if you are smart enough to discern fantasy from reality

...and almost every one of us believes that he/she is "smart enough" to make this distinction. However, if we are all capable of making this distinction, why do racism and misogyny still exist? My argument is that there is no distinction to make. Misogyny comes in several different forms (including fantasy), but it's still misogyny, in varying degrees.

While it is true that many women have forced themselves to be submissive because they think that is what men want, it is also true that many women are submissive because thats what they want.

I believe that if men stopped sending out the (false) message that universal female submission was what they wanted, women would feel less pressured into making choices that they didn't actually support. If directors like Max Hardcore chose not to advertise submission as what all women "deserve," women would have more opportunity to realize their other alternatives. Then (and, I believe, only then) submission will be a personal choice instead of a capitulation to society's expectations.

And if you are making the claim that any form of art has a responsibility to uphold societal values (a claim which is extremely difficult to make, and has been pretty much trashed in this country for centuries) then I would say you have much bigger fish to fry. How about the television and music industries that actually carry some kind of social legitimacy?

No, I certainly do not believe that art has a responsibility to uphold societal values. I believe that art, philosophy, religion, politics, etc. all have a responsibility to question, to test, and perhaps to change our values, as well as to strengthen them. However, I do not see Max Hardcore's work as a challenge to any value system. Instead, I see him as pandering to a set of unconsidered stereotypes. Perhaps, if he presented his work differently, I wouldn't dismiss him so easily.

I think Max Hardcore pushes the limits on "permissible" viewing material for ADULTS... and I applaud him for it.

Yes, you're right about that, subtledecadence. I will grant him that much. However, I think he would be more successful at "pushing" those limits if he did it more thoughtfully.

If your waiting for gender equality to happen in a Porn, your going to be waiting a good long time.

I'll only have to wait if we all decide we have to wait and no one decides to change things. Change doesn't happen magically and outside of our control. We can make things better, if we think it's worth our effort. I think Laurel and Manu, the people who run literotica, have done a wonderful job of taking matters into their own hands on this front. I hope that, through their efforts and the efforts of people like them, we won't have to wait much longer for a shift in society's attitude toward sex. (By the way, subtledecadence, welcome to lit!)

And ADR... as for sobriety and chuckles... can't we have both? Having less sobriety (even if it meant fewer hurt feelings) seems like it would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Seems like there ought to be a way to take each other's thoughts seriously, if only we can learn to look at our own with a little humor.

 

[Marquis]

You keep mentioning Max being more thoughtful, or problems in his "presentation" of his acts.

In what ways would you have him change?

 

[subtledecadence]

Yes, you're right about that, subtledecadence. I will grant him that much. However, I think he would be more successful at "pushing" those limits if he did it more thoughtfully.

Hmm, I'd have to disagree w/ you on that one NemoAlia, only because remember, it is a Porn, where thoughtfulness is not something that people want to see, at least not those of U/us that watch Max Hardcore. I also believe in order to make a statement, one cannot be subtle about it in the least. (at least when we're discussing something of a sexual nature...) Governments seem to believe that because it's something a child might see, it is then something that should NOT be seen by anyone. To me, as long as two (or more ) consenting adults are involved, have at it, and if you don't want your children getting ahold of it, then it is YOUR responsibility, not the Governments.

I'll only have to wait if we all decide we have to wait and no one decides to change things. Change doesn't happen magically and outside of our control. We can make things better, if we think it's worth our effort.

That is true. Though you can't blame only men for perpetuating female stereotypes.... Hell, more females damage that cause then any male could. W/we no longer have to worry about men telling U/us what to do. No, instead W/we have to worry about other females telling U/us how victimized W/we all are. I for one think it's bullshit. I use my common sense, and can look at a Max Hardcore flick and think..."damn, He may not have much respect for those women" (& perhaps get a lil turned on) w/out thinking, all Men in the BDSM Community feel the same way. And all I can do is hope O/others are able to view it in the same way, and when the chance arises, explain to them my point of view.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

subtledecadence.

P.S.
Thank you very much for the welcome NemoAlia, it's good to be here!

 

[CarolineOh]

Re: Re: Re: Today's Snide Comment Count ....

Hi Twink;

Please don't pout....hey, love the new av...pedicure tonite over some wine, perhaps?

CarolineOh?.....oh, well, was one of the first people who ever PM'd me here....she does indeed make a point of getting to know the new people here.

Sadly, I disagreed with her at some point, and the rest is history.

I think of CarolineOh as a bitchy kinky soap opera ex-wife domme character that acts sweet and sub around the crowds or men with money. She's easily wound up. Probably cries a lot, then yells like a banshee at her man off-set.

IRL, she's probably a fine person.

Just my humble opinion.

Lance

Saved to prevent future denial.

 

[CarolineOh]

Re: Well said, Cym!

I would be truly pleased if you could keep CarolineOh away from me with her false, attention seeking whining about the things I say.

Her whining at me always begs a poke in return.

The two of you should invent a WhippingBoy character of your own to publicly whine about here.

But it's not me.

I'm not interested in the gig.

So, please, fuck off with the sulking at me.

Go express your views and stop taking differing views as personal affronts.

Morons.

*Hugs*

Lance

One more that wont disappear.

 

[Lancecastor]

JumboSnide Scores

One more that wont disappear.

CarolineOcd....have your meds worn off again?

Snide Remarks Today:

Caroline Ocd 5 Lance 4
Sam Auxiliary 2

Total 7-4

Shoo fly!

 

[CarolineOh]

lance, I've got close to 4000 posts. Perhaps 12 or 15 are in relationship to you. Don't flatter yourself, little man.

 

[Lancecastor]

lance, I've got close to 4000 posts. Perhaps 12 or 15 are in relationship to you. Don't flatter yourself, little man.

Rest assured that "flattered" is hardly the word I'd use to describe my feelings about your 4,000 posts...or your continuing obsession with playing Joan of Arc on my front lawn .

Shoo fly!

Listen to Cym....listen to Sam...get help. Whatever. But take it elsewhere.

 

[Pelagie]

Sigh.

Not to be mean, but can the back and forth insulting and/or ass kissing just stop. It's all over the forums and its such a turn off. I originally came here to learn more about BDSM, but it seems like the only thing people want to do on these forums is either insult each other or tell one another how wonderful they are. Can this thread, please stay on topic?

I like Max Hardcore. I like the way he disrespects women. I don't care if it is politically incorrect. I don't expect everything I see or read to have some sort of deep impact on society or try to change the way I think. It's porn. I expect it to turn me on, and it does.

 

[MzChrista]

Re: Re: Re: Today's Snide Comment Count ....

Hi Twink;

Please don't pout....hey, love the new av...pedicure tonite over some wine, perhaps?

CarolineOh?.....oh, well, was one of the first people who ever PM'd me here....she does indeed make a point of getting to know the new people here.

Sadly, I disagreed with her at some point, and the rest is history.

I think of CarolineOh as a bitchy kinky soap opera ex-wife domme character that acts sweet and sub around the crowds or men with money. She's easily wound up. Probably cries a lot, then yells like a banshee at her man off-set.

IRL, she's probably a fine person.

Just my humble opinion.

Lance

You one delusional motherfucker.

 

[Marquis]

Sigh.

Not to be mean, but can the back and forth insulting and/or ass kissing just stop. It's all over the forums and its such a turn off. I originally came here to learn more about BDSM, but it seems like the only thing people want to do on these forums is either insult each other or tell one another how wonderful they are. Can this thread, please stay on topic?

I like Max Hardcore. I like the way he disrespects women. I don't care if it is politically incorrect. I don't expect everything I see or read to have some sort of deep impact on society or try to change the way I think. It's porn. I expect it to turn me on, and it does.

That was a nice try darling, but I guess it was not meant to be.

 

[MzChrista]

Rest assured that "flattered" is hardly the word I'd use to describe my feelings about your 4,000 posts...or your continuing obsession with playing Joan of Arc on my front lawn .

Shoo fly!

Listen to Cym....listen to Sam...get help. Whatever. But take it elsewhere.

What are you the Lit Police?

 

[MzChrista]

That was a nice try darling, but I guess it was not meant to be.

Oh sorry. here go, right back on topic.

Max Hardcore sucks.
That better?

 

[Marquis]

Yes. Slightly.

 

[40_and_frisky]

Originally posted by Marquis - (my comments interspersed)

Marquis - Personally, I like Max Hardcore a lot. His performances seem to genuine to be much of an act, so I doubt I would really like him as a person, but as an artist I think he is really talented.

****************************************************

Leo - I'll go along with Max being genuine, in that he's probably a lot like his porn persona. I'd hesitate to call him an artist though, as I find his work very repetitive in theme and execution. Then again that's true of almost all pornographers. He's got his niche and he mines it to death. Personally, I much prefer Rocco Siffredi's work for rougher sex videos with D/s overtones. The main difference between Max and Rocco, aside from the latter's much better looks and better endowment, is that Rocco really seems to like women where Max really seems like a misogynist. Rocco will give a sweet kiss on the lips to a woman who just sucked him dry after fucking her ass. While it's one thing to use a woman for sex, hell there's nothing sexier than a woman who says "you can do whatever you want to me" and really means it (save her hard limits), it's another not to show any affection at all like Max, even after the scene is over. Unless he's changed his routine, his videos pretty much have no kissing or even pussy eating. If that's your thing, then Max is your man. For me, he gets boring after about ten minutes no matter how outrageous he gets with speculums, throat fucking, and ass-to-mouth - simply because I don't sense any passion behind the degradation.

****************************************************

Marquis - For a messageboard on BDSM I am shocked at how politically correct you people are. When you guys play your bdsm games, what do you actually do? Kiss and massage each other? I mean really, am I confused as to what the acronym for BDSM even stands for?

****************************************************

Leo - Just a quick comment on your comment - ad hominum attacks do nothing to enhance your arguments. Just because some people don't share your views, I don't see where you can infer that's because of "political correctness". And there's nothing the matter with kissing and touching during a scene. Just the other day I was kissing my partner passionately while torturing her nipples - there's no more intimate and pleasurable way that I enjoy her suffering for me.

****************************************************

Marquis - Here's the deal. Max Hardcore is a guilty fantasy. My girlfriend and I roleplay during sex a lot and we enjoy watching Max Hardcore for inspiration. We are both feminists, but that has nothing to do with what gets us going in the bedroom. The fact of the matter is simply this, people get turned on by the ideas portrayed in his videos and while that may bring out a darker side of some people, it doesn't make a judgment on their beliefs or actions.

****************************************************

Leo - My biggest problem with Max isn't that he's a misogynist. When I play, I can act like one as well. It's that Max's videos often role play older man, under-age girl scenarios. It's the pony-tailed, school-outfit with plaid skirt and white socks, licking a sucker, little girl lost kind of pseudo barely pubescent stuff that just plain isn't my cup of tea. If Max would do his degradation thing to real women, not ones trying to act like 12 - 15 year olds, then I wouldn't be quite so disgusted with him. This is true raincoater porn. A trip to the video store will show you that the "barely legal" stuff is what sells. Not sure what that says about us as a society. All I know is that it's not my thing.

****************************************************

Marquis - Why we like Max Hardcore? Unlike most porn, he's actually smart and creative. Like most guilty pleasures, he's almost campy in his approach to entertainment and this can mislead people into thinking it is just trash. Max Hardcore porn is the equivalent to a Schwarzenegger movie, its kind of corny if you think about it, but its pretty cool if you don't. But that doesn't change the fact that Max and Arny are both very talented at what they do.

****************************************************

Leo - Nah, porn's more like pro wrestling. The bodies being thrown around are real, but everything else is fake and scripted as can be. Even those interviews where the women say how much they love working with Max. Now has Max ever been interviewed where he expresses any affection for his "cock-sockets"?

Thanks for bringing up an interesting topic. I highly recommend you check out the rec.arts.movies.erotica Usenet newsgroup for surprisingly intelligent discussion about all things related to porn videos.

Leo

 

[Lancecastor]

BDSM Grrls....

Sigh.

Not to be mean, but can the back and forth insulting and/or ass kissing just stop. It's all over the forums and its such a turn off. I originally came here to learn more about BDSM, but it seems like the only thing people want to do on these forums is either insult each other or tell one another how wonderful they are. Can this thread, please stay on topic?

I like Max Hardcore. I like the way he disrespects women. I don't care if it is politically incorrect. I don't expect everything I see or read to have some sort of deep impact on society or try to change the way I think. It's porn. I expect it to turn me on, and it does.

This might just be the wrong place to say you like someone who disrespects women....because the Submissive chix here in these parts are sometimes big and mean, my friend.

*Ouch!* Look out for those bricks!

Hey....can you pass me that 2X4? The sweet gentle Grrls of the BDSM Board are back......aaaaahhhhrrrrggghhhh!!!!

 

[MzChrista]

Re: BDSM Grrls....

This might just be the wrong place to say you like someone who disrespects women....because the Submissive chix here in these parts are sometimes big and mean, my friend.

*Ouch!* Look out for those bricks!

Hey....can you pass me that 2X4? The sweet gentle Grrls of the BDSM Board are back......aaaaahhhhrrrrggghhhh!!!!

So there you go again. If a woman is submissive she got to post all nicey and kiss assy or you get mad. You are a sick fuck who shouldnt be allowed within 100 miles of real BDSM.

 

[Lancecastor]

Re: Re: BDSM Grrls....

So there you go again. If a woman is submissive she got to post all nicey and kiss assy or you get mad. You are a sick fuck who shouldnt be allowed within 100 miles of real BDSM.

I'm not mad, MzChrista...this is pure entertainment, darlin'....read my sig. You can read, right?

Take a pill. Step away from the keyboard. Smoke a joint. Whatever.

Max Hardcore would surely be boning your sorry ass like a donkey on acid for talking that way to me, by the way, ho...

How's that, Marquis?

 

[A Desert Rose]

Re: Re: Re: BDSM Grrls....

Lance, Empty your PM box, please....

Rose

 

[Marquis]

Originally posted by Marquis - (my comments interspersed)

Leo - Just a quick comment on your comment - ad hominum attacks do nothing to enhance your arguments. Just because some people don't share your views, I don't see where you can infer that's because of "political correctness". And there's nothing the matter with kissing and touching during a scene. Just the other day I was kissing my partner passionately while torturing her nipples - there's no more intimate and pleasurable way that I enjoy her suffering for me.

Leo

Actually, I wasn't attempting to enhance my arguments, merely expressing my surprise. And actually yes, I think I can definitely point to political correctness as the reason for people disagreeing with me. Political correctness has talken on a poor negative connotation, but its denotation was used perfectly in my sentence. Its like saying not calling black people "niggers" is politically correct. The truth is, it is very politically correct. That doesnt mean I only expect uptight assholes obsessed with political correcness to not say nigger though.

I also didn't mean to say that there was anything wrong with kissing and touching. My tongue-in-cheek comment was merely meant to imply that it isn't much of BDSM if kissing is all you're doing.

Also, about Max Hardcore being a Misogynist. Yeah, I think so too. But that doesn't mean his porn sucks. George Washington held slaves but that doesn't mean he wasn't great for our country. And to be quite honest it is quite presumptious of us to make any judgments about Max's personal life. It would probably be bad for business if he started smiling at the girls, because thats not his niche. For all we know he could be great to the women in his life.

 

[nawtyleanni]

The simple fact of the matter is some girls like getting humiliated, punished and generally treated like whores and bitches. My girlfriend does.

I do too, but I don't care for Max Hardcore's movies. Not because of their extreme content, but because he is an ugly little man with an ugly little penis.


NemoAlia wrote:

If directors like Max Hardcore chose not to advertise submission as what all women "deserve," women would have more opportunity to realize their other alternatives. Then (and, I believe, only then) submission will be a personal choice instead of a capitulation to society's expectations.

Why not take it step farther and claim that women who "think" they like sex, really don't, and only do it to capitulate to society's expectations? And even if women do things in bed that they really aren't too crazy about in order to please a man, it's still their choice to do so. I'm sure there are men out there who have taken an interest in the performing arts in order to make themselves into a more attractive partner for a woman. And maybe in the process, they actually developed a taste for ballet and theatre... or maybe not. Either way, it's still their choice to participate in these activities.

Each person deserves to choose his own way of living that isn't defined by someone else's thoughtless stereotypes. Max Hardcore's films (not the acts in them -- these can take place in real life, as part of real D/s relationships) endanger this right. Therefore, I cannot approve of his work as a pornographer.

Explain to me what the difference is between Max Hardcore's films and the acts that are in them? Are you just offended by the way he markets his movies? That he stays in character and refers to women as bitches and sluts while talking about his movies, and not just in his movies? He is definitely selling misogynistic sex, but many people (men and women) are turned on by it. Is that wrong?

 

[Marquis]

I do too, but I don't care for Max Hardcore's movies. Not because of their extreme content, but because he is an ugly little man with an ugly little penis.

LOL. Yeah, I could see how that would bother someone. Being a het male I guess I never really looked at it from that angle. Someone else here mentioned Rocco. I like him a great deal too, and he seems like a much better looking guy if that matters to you.

 

[nawtyleanni]

I've seen Rocco in other movies before, and I think he's an absolute babe. But, I don't think I've ever seen one of his own movies before. There are these mpegs that I've been downloading from the internet lately that I think are really hot. I think the movies are made by a German company (GGG?). The scenes always have lots of guys for every girl (yummy), lots of rough sex and degradation (yummy), and lots of cum (double yummy).