My Andy Thread

[Cub4ucme]

I look forward to reading something else besides .

You look forward to coffee in your Interenet living room spilling warm
wishes on your bad day-dreams.

best,
andy

 

[Cub4ucme]

THat also is what I thought, but Cubby informed me I was wrong, so I asked him to which game he was referring. I even included WHYI thought Stratego would have been an appropriate word to use.

oh well.... what did he say? I asked him nicely, do not see any response from him, yet

Strateego--- Was and may still be a game boys played
It consists of a mix of war, hide and seek, and the game out, or horse played with a basketball.

The reason I used two EE's is that it took two EE"s to get you OUT, or HORSED, for the sake of explaining my point.

The board game (which I also played) had only one E.

I have had at least three editors that i can recall (one as recently as a month ago from Sage of Consiousness) question me about it.

Each time after explaining THEY chose to leave the two EE's.

I can only guess why. It's probably close to the reason I chose to use the word to begin with. If you never heard of the the word it doesn't take
away from the poem because anyone with a third grade literal vocabulary
knows what STRATEGY means. The strophe is about taking sides.

Thus, it doesn't matter to a careful reader if you know about either game.
The intent of the root word is clearly evident.

I thought about that when I fought for the one word in that strophe I needed to finish it. It just happened to be STRATEEGO/STRATEGO.

I'm now experiencing mixed feelings about whether I should have changed it or not since it seems to be the only thing here that anyone wants to discuss about the poem itself.

It's akin to wolves in a lifeless forest finally finding something to circle and stalk.

Hope this explains it. My only other choice would be to ignore the posts and then the assumption would be I had no viable answer.

Sometimes it's really interesting to go through this process.

best,
andy

 

[Cub4ucme]

And while we're at it, what is synchronated? (From the title of this poem posted by Andy.) Not a word in any dictionary I can find. I'm just asking because he made such poop hurling attempts at ripping my poem for bad grammar.

Oh, and I find it telling that I have yet to recieve a reply to this. Maybe there is none.

Explain to me why Synchronated is bad grammer in the title of a poem.

I'm sincerely interested in your response.

best,
andy

 

[Cub4ucme]

oh my goodness people, could someone come do my laundry or write my 30 poems in 30 days poem instead of googling Andy?

eh hem

this is making me grumpy.

Hmm. Maybe I am just jealous. Maybe I want to be Googled. And oogled. Do I have to call you names or something? sheesh

Don't be jealous. It's no fun sitting here playing this out.


best,
andy

 

[Cub4ucme]

Without wanting to stoke the fire, surely a title is a title is a title and could be whatever one wanted it to be without compromising the poem its the title of.

As for the word synchronated I just thought it was an Americanism for synchronism or synchronized.

I'm sorry you Americans but you do have a habit of corrupting the odd word or two.

Is it corruption, or is it the inevitable progression of the evolution of language?


Do you know that an OXFORD DICTIONARY from the early nineteen hundred's
value as a resource tool today is minimal?

It's worth more on EBAY I'd guess than in a classroom.

Which brings up another point: Poetry is responsible for much of the changes
and evolution of language. Not just the English language. The parallel can be drawn almost across the board.

It's not something exclusive to Americans.

I will freely admit we take more liberties by measure than most but, that's not exclusive to language either. It's more based on the melting pot and how our language has derived from its English base.

Spend some time in New Zealand or Australia and you'll be thinking
liberties of language are a way of life.


best,
andy

 

[TheRainMan]

Wow!!

good to see you, Boston.

that's a great picture . . . sure beats the monkey with a Budweiser and Marlboro.

 

[bogusbrig]

Is it corruption, or is it the inevitable progression of the evolution of language?


Spend some time in New Zealand or Australia and you'll be thinking
liberties of language are a way of life.


best,
andy

I've spent quite a bit of time in Australia though only had the odd visit to New Zealand and while both countries have their slang, like everyone does, both use English-English.

Is it corruption, or is it the inevitable progression of the evolution of language?

A natural evolution of language usually happens in a group communicating with eachother, language being a form of communication and all. A corruption I would say is a single person making alterations through being overly smart or ignorant. Say like Webster and his dictionary.

As for making changes to words in poetry, I think it is fine. The reader will understand the meaning behind the change or not and make their judgement as to whether they think it adds to the poem or not or whether the poet is smart or just plain dumb.

 

[Senna Jawa]

a good advice is just that and no more

Double talker.

Stop it, andy, or I will ignore you.

Haiku, in its purest sense is about an experience that happens in the NOW!

Do you argue that?

It is a good advice, especially for novices and authors, like yourself, who are not advanced, that they zoom on one moment in time, on one place, on one item. Basho and other masters wrote quite a number of haiku which do not follow this advice; you may say that they have contradicted it. At least one of these haiku is super-famous, and several of them are well known.

I remind you, andy--one more epithet and you are gone for me, nonexistent. Write cleanly from now on.

 

[bogusbrig]

Hello, BB

True, we Americans can funk-tify a word on occasion

Hmm You are just reinforcing my prejudice that Americans are by nature perverted.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Hmm You are just reinforcing my prejudice that Americans are by nature perverted.

I don't know if I count as a core American but I made at least three positive contributions to the language, which were picked up by other poets, including one of the greatest English language poets of the 1990s. Thus not all contributions have to be perverted or inelegant. If rec.arts.poems didn't degenerate, if it had continuity, then these additions would get established firmly, would be a part of English. As it is I don't know.

 

[Cub4ucme]

Stop it, andy, or I will ignore you.

.

Doubletalker,


I'd actually prefer that.

You still haven't answered me regarding the posting of your haiku
in critical arenas.

You may surrender any time you wish.

best,
andy

 

[Cub4ucme]

Stop it, andy, or I will ignore you.

It is a good advice, especially for novices and authors, like yourself, who are not advanced, that they zoom on one moment in time,

Either the haiku is written about a moment in time, an idea, that provides a form of enlightenment, or it is not technically haiku.

Is there something here you don't quite understand?

You seem to think your doubletalk decides the argument.

Please provide us with examples of Basho's haiku where they do not meet the criteria I listed above.

If you fail to do this I won't be surprised at all. You see, they don't exist.

Your tiring habit of attempting to diminish my integrity while you continue
to expose your own lack of honesty and intellectual knowledge of poetry only further exposes your issue with ego.

best,
andy

 

[Cub4ucme]

I've spent quite a bit of time in Australia though only had the odd visit to New Zealand and while both countries have their slang, like everyone does, both use English-English.
.

What precisely is ENGLISH-ENGLISH?

I was under the impression Australians
spoke Australian-English.


Here's a bit of what I was reffering to:

Hey mate, how are you going?
I took a dive yesterday and saw a Noah's Arc.

Or-oo Matey

In other words, "Hi, how are you doing?
I went diving yesterday and saw a shark.

Good-bye friend.

Slang does corrupt.

To insinuate that Australians have their slang
and then claim they speak fine English-English
is a bit confusing and misleading.

I think what you are expressing is opinion based.

I don't want to turn this into another endless debate
but, you are out on a long limb with your statement.

best,
andy

 

[flyguy69]

Your implication assumes I have an agenda to disrupt the commentary
on poetry in this forum.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Check the number of poems I've posted in this thread alone.

I've also commented on more poetry in this entire forum than any member
recently.

My wasted time is spent responding to emotional misfits who thought they
might know who they were up against.

The typical, let's all get him and he'll go away approach to caveman
behaviour.

I resent your post, and for good reason.

best,
andy

I didn't. But I'm learning. And I'm increasingly disappointed.

You used that award, Andy. You brought it down on Maria's fingers like a hammer; pretended that her dislike of such a distinguished piece obviated everything she thought or had to contribute. When the truth comes out: the poem was merely liked by a few marginal poets, it makes me wonder what other smoke-and-mirror games you are playing.

What about all the PM's you claim to have received in support of your position here? Have you applied the same rigorous test to those authors' work? Or are they, encamped around the substantial bonfire of your ego, held to a lower standard?

 

[Cub4ucme]

Stop it, andy, or I will ignore you.

It is a good advice, especially for novices and authors, like yourself, who are not advanced,

Egomaniac,

What exactly are your credentials?

Your statement implies that I am a novice on the subject at hand and you are advanced.

I find this statement to be almost as daring, and ridiculous, as your claims
about your haiku being superior to Ezra Pounds.

You never answer critically. You fill up the page
with hogwash that is opinion-based jargon.

I'd appreciate you sharing your credentials, or providing something
other than your doubletalk to substantiate your fruitless assessments.


It might be in your best interest to put me on ignore.

You're obviously in too deep.

best,
andy

 

[Cub4ucme]

I When the truth comes out: the poem was merely liked by a few marginal poets,

Is that so?

So, you are convinced this is the case then?

Please, let me know.

I also find it humorous how you decide who and who isn't "marginal poets."

You're bold and about to have your foot for breakfast.

Get back to me on this whenever you are ready.

best,
andy

 

[Cub4ucme]

I didn't. But I'm learning. And I'm increasingly disappointed.

You used that award, Andy. You brought it down on Maria's fingers like a hammer;

You shouldn't make it a habit of twisting histories that are within the click
of a mouse to revisit.

Actually, what happened was she made a statement something to the affect of pissing on Toy Soldiers.

I then told her she revealed much about her integrity when it comes to poetry by picking an award winning poem to piss on.

I could stand by that one site right now if I chose to and not be wrong.

This whole idea that I should just sit back and allow ignorant people like
yourself to jump in here and make strange and hollow accusations about
me and my poetry and not respond is ludicrous.

Do you write poetry?
Do you have any credentials that I should consider
your opinion of who is a marginal poet and who is not?
Do you know how many poets on that site are published
on a regular basis?
Have you been published?

My guess is you would have to answer no to all of the above.

Why would I take you seriously?

best,
andy

 

[flyguy69]

Is that so?

So, you are convinced this is the case then?

Please, let me know.

I also find it humorous how you decide who and who isn't "marginal poets."

You're bold and about to have your foot for breakfast.

Get back to me on this whenever you are ready.

best,
andy

A error on my part: I am applying the same test that you use: a poet's worth is determined by whether or not they like your work. I used it in the opposite direction, but that does not make it a better test.

My mistake.

 

[flyguy69]

....
Do you write poetry?
Do you have any credentials that I should consider
you opinion of who is a marginal poet and who is not?
Do you know how many poets on that site are published
on a regular basis?
Have you been published?

My guess is you would have to answer no to all of the above.

.....

best,
andy

Guilty as charged!

 

[Cub4ucme]

I
Or are they, encamped around the substantial bonfire of your ego, held to a lower standard?

I'm having a very hard time understanding what point you are trying to make.

I have been PM'ed by posters who's sole point was to let me know they were glad I was here.

I also called them cowards in so many words for doing so behind the scenes in a previous thread.

What point is it that you are trying to make?

best,
andy

 

[Cub4ucme]

A error on my part: I am applying the same test that you use: a poet's worth is determined by whether or not they like your work. I used it in the opposite direction, but that does not make it a better test.

My mistake.

Incorrect. I personally know more than a couple of poets that I feel
write very valuable and valid poetry that are not attracted to my
poems. I don't hold it against them in any way.

It would be short-sighted to do so.

I prefer one actor over another. One novelist over another.
I like blue, you may prefer green.

I'd be in a constant state of frustration if I were to apply the standards
you are accusing me of above.

It simply isn't true.

Senna, so boldly inferred that I commented negatively on ALL his poetry.
That was a lie.

Now, you know the history here. If what you are saying is true I never would have made a positive comment on a single poem of his.

So far I have read about ten of his poems and a lot of his haiku posted here.

I don't think much of his poetry at all. That is based on his POETRY not his personality.

I don't want to attempt to convince you of something you've sold yourself
on otherwise. That would be a waste of my time.

I will say that you are dead wrong and leave it at that.

best,
andy

 

[Angeline]

Egomaniac,

What exactly are your credentials?

Your statement implies that I am a novice on the subject at hand and you are advanced.

I find this statement to be almost as daring, and ridiculous, as your claims
about your haiku being superior to Ezra Pounds.

You never answer critically. You fill up the page
with hogwash that is opinion-based jargon.

I'd appreciate you sharing your credentials, or providing something
other than your doubletalk to substantiate your fruitless assessments.


It might be in your best interest to put me on ignore.

You're obviously in too deep.

best,
andy

Senna has a long list of publications and awards. He probably wouldn't list them for you himself, but he is published in some of the best small poetry journals around like Agneiska's Dowry (which I'm probably misspelling), but is published by A Small Garlic Press.

There are a lot of poets here with good publsihing credentials. Rainman just had a chapbook published, Annaswirls has many publication in well-respected print and online journals and is the creator of an excellent online poetry journal. I've been published in a number of journals, including Exquisite Corpse.

There are many others here with chapbook and print (as well as online) publications (Liar is in a poetry anthology among other places). I've only mentioned a few.

You may not think this says anything about the value of writers' poetry (which I suppose it doesn't, really), but you're wrong to assume (which many of your posts suggest) that people here know little about poetry or don't have good publication credentials.

And I've won awards for my poetry, too. I tend not to make a big fuss about it.

You say you want to discuss poetry, have good critical discussions and there are many places on this forum where you can do that. Instead, you seem to be investing most of your time in arguing with people here. Yes, I see you've posted some poems in this thread, but if you want critical feedback this isn't the place to do it. That would be the Poetry Discussion Circle, the Poetry in Progress thread, the Gymnasium thread, the Not for the Thin-Skinned thread. Post a poem in any of those places and you'll get critical feedback--and others will welcome yours on their poems if it's presented respectfully.

I'm not trying to argue with you and I hope you will take what I have to say in the spirit it is offered (information-sharing and a respectful request about your purpose here). If you aren't interested in participating beyond what has been going on in this thread, I don't understand your purpose in being here. It doesn't seem constructive to me at all.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Is there something here you don't quite understand?

You're rude and you have repeated your abuse. This is my last communication with you. You don't exist for me anymore. Write for others but I am not going to read you. I have warned you.

Senna Jawa

****************

Below, Basho zooms on a single moment in time:


************

Spring air --
woven moon
and plum scent.
​

Basho (tr. Lucien Stryk)



***************************
In the several Basho's haiku below, Basho uses either a prolonged time interval or a juxtaposition of two (or more) moments in time, widely apart one from another--he is not zooming on a single moment in time, and in most of them there is no zooming on any single miniature object (in poetry moon can still pass as miniature but a mountain range is not miniature).
***************************

A famous one:

Year after year
on the monkey's face
a monkey face.
​

Basho (tr. Robert Hass)



************
another translation:

Year by year,
the monkey's mask
reveals the monkey.
​

Basho (tr. Lucien Stryk)


************
Even more famous:

Summer grass--
all that's left
of warriors' dreams.
​

Basho (tr. Robert Hass)



************

Fields, mountains
of Hubaku, in
nine days -- spring.
​

Basho (tr. Lucien Stryk)


************

New Year --
feeling broody
from late autumn.
​

Basho (tr. Lucien Stryk)


*************

Snow that we two
looked at together -- this year
has it fallen anew?
​

Basho (tr. Harold. G. Henderson)


************

Loath to let spring go
Birds cry, and even fishes'
eyes are wet with tears
​

Basho (tr. Dorothy Britton)


************
another translation:

Spring going --
birds weeping, tears
in the eyes of fish.
​

Basho (tr. Robert Hass)


************

Sadly, I part from you;
Like a clam thorn from its shell,
I go, and autumn too.
​

Basho (tr. Dorothy Britton)


************

Sadder and much more
Forlorn even than at Suma
Is autumn at this shore.
​

Basho (tr. Dorothy Britton)


************

Gathering
the fifth month's rains,
the swift Mogami River
​

Basho (tr. Robert Hass)


************

 

[Cub4ucme]

Senna has a long list of publications and awards. He probably wouldn't list them for you himself, but he is published in some of the best small poetry journals around like Agneiska's Dowry (which I'm probably misspelling), but is published by A Small Garlic Press.

There are a lot of poets here with good publsihing credentials. Rainman just had a chapbook published, Annaswirls has many publication in well-respected print and online journals and is the creator of an excellent online poetry journal. I've been published in a number of journals, including Exquisite Corpse.

There are many others here with chapbook and print (as well as online) publications (Liar is in a poetry anthology among other places). I've only mentioned a few.

You may not think this says anything about the value of writers' poetry (which I suppose it doesn't, really), but you're wrong to assume (which many of your posts suggest) that people here know little about poetry or don't have good publication credentials.

And I've won awards for my poetry, too. I tend not to make a big fuss about it.

You say you want to discuss poetry, have good critical discussions and there are many places on this forum where you can do that. Instead, you seem to be investing most of your time in arguing with people here. Yes, I see you've posted some poems in this thread, but if you want critical feedback this isn't the place to do it. That would be the Poetry Discussion Circle, the Poetry in Progress thread, the Gymnasium thread, the Not for the Thin-Skinned thread. Post a poem in any of those places and you'll get critical feedback--and others will welcome yours on their poems if it's presented respectfully.

I'm not trying to argue with you and I hope you will take what I have to say in the spirit it is offered (information-sharing and a respectful request about your purpose here). If you aren't interested in participating beyond what has been going on in this thread, I don't understand your purpose in being here. It doesn't seem constructive to me at all.

I appreciate your post and the spirit of its intent.

I do take issue with much of it, though.

First of all, I am getting weary of the constant, broad sweeping insinuation that I assume "people here know little about poetry."

The many posts you refer to are based on the individuals who have either
expressed an opinion that my poetry sucks, or that I don't know what they hell I am talking about.
I then have asked the questions over and over again:

Do you write poetry?
Do you have credentials I should be aware of?

...........and so on.

You know, it's not fun and certainly not easy to continue to try and keep up with all of you jumping in here. On the other hand, I'm not one who will sit back and allow people to come across as knaves and then accuse me of being
crazy, bitter, dysfuntional, stupid, a phony, and on and on and on.

Your other contention referring to my being here for the poetry and attempting to guide me in the right direction has some concrete validity to it.

What you are ignoring is the fact that someone took the liberty to start a thread that has my name on it. Now, that person may slide to the left and duck to claim it might be about Andy Capp but, that would be an outright lie.

It has been a battle here. Very few people seem to realize that I have been attacked by numerous people who I still maintain have little or no basis for
doing so.

As far as Senna goes, you could try and convince me forever that he is a good poet and you wouldn't get anywhere. I am not by any means saying he hasn't written ANY valid poetry. I am saying you'd have to fish through a lot of it to find some that is of any substance worth digging into.

Yes, that is opinion-based and certainly subjective but, it is not based
on his personality. It's based on my own conclusions after reading his
poetry.

One other point I'd like to make is I do post my poetry in numberous environments where it is critically analyzed. Some of my poems fall
flat on their face but, I don't take it personally when I know the critique
is generated from someone who is sincere and has the ability to
express themselves based on knowledge and void of personality issues.

I don't keep my ego or heart-strings attached to poems I write.

I go through the process of writing them and then giving them up.
There is always another one coming. In essence in the end
a poem is just a poem. It's not living and breathing and nobody
dies if it fails.

Thank You!

best,
andy

 

[TheRainMan]

. . . Rainman just had a chapbook published . . .

full collection. get yer facts straight, Miss Maine.

and i expect you to order one.


Andy,


there are plenty of poets here with good "credentials," as you put it. Angeline's list only touches the outskirts. Maria/normal jean, Eve, flyguy, Tristesse (none of whom Angeline mentioned), and on and on . . . i have seen them all in print, and read enough of their poetry and their commentary on my own to know they all have something legitimate to contribute.

and Senna, who seems to be your primary combatant here, has much knowledge and experience. and credentials.

every one of them, and more, have helped me in some way to become a better writer, i think.

i have also seen enough of your own writing now to know that you have things to offer as well, and can be a welcome member and an asset to this community.

this ugliness is more about personalities than anything else . . . it happens every now and then.

hopefully, all this settles down, and it goes back to primarily poetry.

now i'm going for a breakfast of clam chowder and peppery bloody Marys, and get ready for the Jets to kick the Green Bay's ass.