slave/sub requests

[Esclava]

Thank you for dropping in, Francisco.

I sat here pondering the direction this thread has taken and find myself stunned to see how easy it is to be misunderstood. I am accustomed to being the one misunderstood.

I, too, have found myself confused by some of the things I have read and wanting to ask some of the same questions that have been asked. That is one reason I have been so quiet on the thread. But I have sensed that a haughty air of superiority has infiltrated the thread and I wondered if there was a way to steer it back to the original premise of the thread.

IMOHO, I have always believed that one can be as submissive as one believes they have the power to be. I, instinctively, accept the wisdom of your words, Francisco, because they strum a basic string in the harp of my life. I have been a "servant" all my life - always seeking to please those in whom I had placed some (even a small) amount of trust - even if it meant fighting to defend them (or myself) against someone else's tyranny. Does that make me any less a natural submissive? In my mind, it makes me a submissive with a calling to decide what is best for me. To submit out of strength or submit from the desire to please another makes no difference - I still submit.

Even in the depths of a truly horrifying relationship, I felt I had to submit to the desires of and at the pleasure of one who was unworthy. When he offered me my freedom, I did not stay in a relationship I knew would only lead me to more unhappiness - but at that point, he had given me my freedom. I gathered the strength I needed and I did submit to his desire for me not to follow him.

OSG, your submissive life may not have take the same path as mine, but I propose that if you look deeply enough - you might see many differences, but still some similarities. I repeat, to submit out of strength or submit from the desire to please another makes no difference - I still submit. So, I ask, why are we having a discussion about whether "true" or "natural" submission is more or less worthy?

Esclava

 

[catalina_francisco]

Thank you for dropping in, Francisco.

I sat here pondering the direction this thread has taken and find myself stunned to see how easy it is to be misunderstood. I am accustomed to being the one misunderstood.

I, too, have found myself confused by some of the things I have read and wanting to ask some of the same questions that have been asked. That is one reason I have been so quiet on the thread. But I have sensed that a haughty air of superiority has infiltrated the thread and I wondered if there was a way to steer it back to the original premise of the thread.

IMOHO, I have always believed that one can be as submissive as one believes they have the power to be. I, instinctively, accept the wisdom of your words, Francisco, because they strum a basic string in the harp of my life. I have been a "servant" all my life - always seeking to please those in whom I had placed some (even a small) amount of trust - even if it meant fighting to defend them (or myself) against someone else's tyranny. Does that make me any less a natural submissive? In my mind, it makes me a submissive with a calling to decide what is best for me. To submit out of strength or submit from the desire to please another makes no difference - I still submit.

Even in the depths of a truly horrifying relationship, I felt I had to submit to the desires of and at the pleasure of one who was unworthy. When he offered me my freedom, I did not stay in a relationship I knew would only lead me to more unhappiness - but at that point, he had given me my freedom. I gathered the strength I needed and I did submit to his desire for me not to follow him.

OSG, your submissive life may not have take the same path as mine, but I propose that if you look deeply enough - you might see many differences, but still some similarities. I repeat, to submit out of strength or submit from the desire to please another makes no difference - I still submit. So, I ask, why are we having a discussion about whether "true" or "natural" submission is more or less worthy?

Esclava

I can relate to your sometime reluctance in asking the questions which fill your heart and mind, and I think you will find overall most on the board welcome such explorations and discussions for a variety of reasons so I encourage anyone to take their place in raising such questions or contributing to the discussions around them. There are times things become a little heated or seemingly judgemental by some standards, and you will find this usually ocurs when people are personally triggered by something a poster says or infers, there are strong differences in understanding a particular situation or definition, or posters begin to feel they are being judged by another. While not everyone on the board is in a relationship, or even actively looking, most respect honesty and openness, tolerance, and a genuine desire to share as much or as little as people are comfortable with. The upside of such emotional and divergent discussions is it allows an exploration of ourselves, as well as enabling us to understand each other a little more.

In this situation, as with many threads, it becomes an offshoot of the original post due partly to the relativity toi the original topic, and to strong statements made which do not speak to everyone, or because statements spark a desire to explore the concepts being introduced. In this case I also think a lot of history and past discussions have influenced the thread, especially in the discussion of what makes a submissive submit. I think it is one of those discussions which will be rehashed over and over, always with a variety of views and concepts, none necessarily less or more authentic or right than the next. With you, I encourage the discussion to return to how or if a submissive makes requests and how Dominants view the particular approaches.

Catalina

 

[A Desert Rose]

As we have discussed before, IMHO just because someone has a submissive personality, that does not necessarily equate they are 'a submissive'. It doesn't gel to me to compare everyday mainstream life such as law enforcement issues with D/s lifestyle to judge whether someone is submissive or a submissive. The two worlds do not operate on the same level of understanding, though they need to operate in the same physical world we all live in....and submissive personality and a submissive are two different things. Someone who has a submissive personality, as in non-assertive for whatever reason, does not to me say they are obviousy a submissive in D/s understanding or that they would ever want to be, or be able to fulfil that role.
...

Catalina

Well, I've been gone for a few days and this is far too much for me to keep up with or catch up with.

That being said... the above quote makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Esclava]

<snip>While not everyone on the board is in a relationship, or even actively looking, most respect honesty and openness, tolerance, and a genuine desire to share as much or as little as people are comfortable with. The upside of such emotional and divergent discussions is it allows an exploration of ourselves, as well as enabling us to understand each other a little more.

<snip>With you, I encourage the discussion to return to how or if a submissive makes requests and how Dominants view the particular approaches.

Catalina

I agree with both of these portions of your post, Catalina. The very fact that I did not lay out huge gridlines for posters to "keep their colors inside of" - I would like to think shouted that I wanted the emotional and divergent opinions. I'd also like to think that looking inside some else's head might open a window in ours and let out some of the brillance to share with others.

So, with that said, I invite you all to tackle this new twist to the original hypothetical situation:

Say, it is not a spanking or petition to have a need fulfilled the sub is requesting, but permission to attend an event - such as a lifestyle event, historically, attended by you both - the sub desires to attend alone. Masters/Doms: Would you question your slave/sub? If so, what would you ask and how might you discern the basis for the request? Slaves/subs: Would you make such a request? If so, what questions might you expect and how might you reassure Master's/Dom's concerns?

I have my own, personal, answers to all of the above which I will share later. Please, join me in the Theatre of the Hypothetical where information, opinions, ideas, and enlightenment converge!

Esclava

Edited because I can't spell "enlightenment" - lol! E

 

[SweetDommes]

Say, it is not a spanking or petition to have a need fulfilled the sub is requesting, but permission to attend an event - such as a lifestyle event, historically, attended by you both - the sub desires to attend alone. Masters/Doms: Would you question your slave/sub? If so, what would you ask and how might you discern the basis for the request? Slaves/subs: Would you make such a request? If so, what questions might you expect and how might you reassure Master's/Dom's concerns?

As dominants, we would insist that the boy have reasons for wanting to go alone. And the answer would probably be no, simply on the grounds that we have historically both/all gone. If I/we want to attend, I/we will. If they don't want to stay by my/our side(s) the whole time, there is no leash on them (well ... most of the time ), and they are free to roam about and visit with others as they choose, as long as they stay within the standing rules.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

erased -- oops, didn't see the request to get back to the topic.

 

[Esclava]

As dominants, we would insist that the boy have reasons for wanting to go alone. And the answer would probably be no, simply on the grounds that we have historically both/all gone. If I/we want to attend, I/we will. If they don't want to stay by my/our side(s) the whole time, there is no leash on them (well ... most of the time ), and they are free to roam about and visit with others as they choose, as long as they stay within the standing rules.

Understood, SDommes, but you would brook no argument with your decision, correct?

If, for any reason, you suspected or found you had a need to confront your sub regarding an apparent breach in a standing rule that may have been vague enough to find a loop hole in, how would you address the breakdown in communication?

Esclava

 

[catalina_francisco]

I think the only time I would consider requesting to attend any lifestyle event alone, even a new one, would be if for some reason he could not attend and there was a specific reason we had wanted to attend. If it were a reason where I could see my going being of use to us both, I would suggest it as a possibility, making sure he understood my reasons for thinking of that option. I know he would trust me, maybe the real issue would be if he trusted others though.

Catalina

 

[Esclava]

Thank you, Phoenix!

Now where's your input on the new "twist"?

Esclava

 

[Shadowsdream]

I agree with both of these portions of your post, Catalina. The very fact that I did not lay out huge gridlines for posters to "keep their colors inside of" - I would like to think shouted that I wanted the emotional and divergent opinions. I'd also like to think that looking inside some else's head might open a window in ours and let out some of the brillance to share with others.

So, with that said, I invite you all to tackle this new twist to the original hypothetical situation:

Say, it is not a spanking or petition to have a need fulfilled the sub is requesting, but permission to attend an event - such as a lifestyle event, historically, attended by you both - the sub desires to attend alone. Masters/Doms: Would you question your slave/sub? If so, what would you ask and how might you discern the basis for the request? Slaves/subs: Would you make such a request? If so, what questions might you expect and how might you reassure Master's/Dom's concerns?

I have my own, personal, answers to all of the above which I will share later. Please, join me in the Theatre of the Hypothetical where information, opinions, ideas, and enlightement converge!

Esclava

Edited because I can't spell "enlightenment" - lol! E

I would find the request insulting and suspicious...UNLESS...I had made it clear I had no intention of attending said event BEFORE his request.

IF I were not in the same location as he is in...I am in Canada and he is in Sweden at the moment...then the request is perfectly understandable and acceptable to Me.

I would interrogate him very deeply if such a request was made that he wished for Me to find something else to do with Myself while he attended said event (same location) and it would not be a particularly pleasant interrogation.

If the time ever comes that My toy "desires" to attend BDSM events without Me the time has come for Me to question O/our D/s relationship.

But then I am a hard ass!

 

[Esclava]

I would find the request insulting and suspicious...UNLESS...I had made it clear I had no intention of attending said event BEFORE his request.

IF I were not in the same location as he is in...I am in Canada and he is in Sweden at the moment...then the request is perfectly understandable and acceptable to Me.

I would interrogate him very deeply if such a request was made that he wished for Me to find something else to do with Myself while he attended said event (same location) and it would not be a particularly pleasant interrogation.

If the time ever comes that My toy "desires" to attend BDSM events without Me the time has come for Me to question O/our D/s relationship.

But then I am a hard ass!

And there are those that thank Dieties the world over for "hard asses" like yours - uh, you! Thanks!

Esclava

 

[Shadowsdream]

My Pleasure
~~grin~~

 

[Caitlynne]

This is a very interesting thread to read and full of very intelligent and eloquent postings, especially Caitlynne’s ‘warrior” post is one I found very to be spot on.

Thank you, Francisco.

~ Cait

 

[SierraMoon]

i attend munches without my Sir, but we are in different states, so He's really not able to go with me, and i have been invited to play parties, and He's given His permission for me to go.

Now, if it were an event that we were both invited to, and we were closer together in location, i wouldn't think of asking if i could go without Him. We are in this D/s relationship together, and therefor, i want to share these things with Him, not do them alone.

i would expect that He would be suspicious if i even brought up the idea...

 

[SweetDommes]

Understood, SDommes, but you would brook no argument with your decision, correct?

If, for any reason, you suspected or found you had a need to confront your sub regarding an apparent breach in a standing rule that may have been vague enough to find a loop hole in, how would you address the breakdown in communication?

Esclava

That is correct. Our decisions are final. The boy may not agree with them, and he's allowed to state that he doesn't agree - but he cannot argue, whine or anything else.

We are very clear on our rules, and they are pretty simple, so I doubt that such an event would occur, but if it did, we would have to talk about it, and find out where the breakdown happened.

I kind of have the same feeling that SD does though, I would be offended and would have to wonder if it was time to get a new boy.

 

[da grunt]

... Some submissives struggle with obedience, some have a sense of humor, some are quiet, and some are talkative, but in the end we are what we are supposed to be or we are released ...

And some submissives are incredibly wise and should be cherished for this

 

[Netzach]

I would have no issue with my boy attending a lifestyle event without me with compelling reason.

But a lot of this is due to his interest in some events that are male only, and some of my interest in women-only events.

I personally would love for him to explore some things from a technical standpoint without the pressure of me being around, I see it as good development, and a chance to be exposed to other people and other styles.

But I'm sure we'd prefer to go together whenever possible, and do. So the "good development" idea is theoretical because we'd rather be together at things than not.

 

[MissTaken]

Say, it is not a spanking or petition to have a need fulfilled the sub is requesting, but permission to attend an event - such as a lifestyle event, historically, attended by you both - the sub desires to attend alone. Masters/Doms: Would you question your slave/sub? If so, what would you ask and how might you discern the basis for the request? Slaves/subs: Would you make such a request? If so, what questions might you expect and how might you reassure Master's/Dom's concerns?

I

If he asked to attend an event independently when I was available to attend, we would for certain be talking.

We view our D/s as something that enhances our relationship and I would want to know how his going somewhere without me, without my having given the instruction to do so would be enhancing our relationship. I would ask who's needs and desires would be met by his attending said event and we all know what the answer should be!



Basically, we would be taking a hard look at the situation and at our relationship and no, he wouldn't be going.

However, I can safely assert, he wouldn't make such a request.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

I have my own, personal, answers to all of the above which I will share later. Please, join me in the Theatre of the Hypothetical where information, opinions, ideas, and enlightenment converge!

Thank you, Phoenix!

Now where's your input on the new "twist"?

Esclava

I'll show you mine, if you'll show me yours....

 

[Esclava]

Say, it is not a spanking or petition to have a need fulfilled the sub is requesting, but permission to attend an event - such as a lifestyle event, historically, attended by you both - the sub desires to attend alone. Masters/Doms: Would you question your slave/sub? If so, what would you ask and how might you discern the basis for the request? Slaves/subs: Would you make such a request? If so, what questions might you expect and how might you reassure Master's/Dom's concerns?

I have my own, personal, answers to all of the above which I will share later. Please, join me in the Theatre of the Hypothetical where information, opinions, ideas, and enlightenment converge!

Esclava

Personal answers by request:

As a sub, I would have no problem asking permission to attend an event I thought Master might not like. I would expect to be questioned at length and lying about anything is not an option. I tried lying to Master about not feeling well and got caught. He waited until a week after I had recovered and ordered a spanking that I couldn't sit from for 3 days.

I would expect him to ask me why I wanted to attend, why I wanted to attend alone, if I was truly attending alone, what I expected to receive from the evening, and what I expected to happen. I would also expect him to lay down rules for my behavior at the event and if I knew I couldn't live within those rules, I could not go. To hurt him pierces the very deepest part of me - it is akin to real, physical pain and it does not go away quickly or easily.

For me, personally, it is easier to look someone in the eye and say, "My Master does not approve and I cannot consent to your request. If you insist, I must leave." (which I have said on many occasions but only had to actually leave a party once). My Master is my rock and grants me permissions when they are deserved and punishes me by withholding them when I have been undeserving. I cannot reason jeopardizing my relationship with him for a few moments of pleasure and a lifetime of internal shame and guilt. He would see it as soon as he laid eyes on me - I am transparent as glass.

I have never cheated on a partner with anyone but myself. I thought about it once and couldn't live with the guilt - of just having the thought. When I commit my life to Master and give him all that I am, he never has to worry about what I am doing when he is not around. I can beat myself up worse than he ever could and never leave a mark or bruise that can be seen.

But ... from the ability to love him with my whole heart comes the strength to deny my own desires in deferrence to his. To walk in his peace when I hear the words, "You please me." To be enveloped as though in a blanket by the words, "I love you, my sweet slave." As simple as they sound, these are the things that bring great joy to me and give me untold strength to deny myself and withstand outside forces that would seek to shatter the relationship I share with Master.

I may not have a r/l Master, but I daresay the one I am rewarded with will be very much like the one I serve online. What I am learning about serving the Master I seek will ALL be relevant when he comes to me.

Esclava

 

[Nackereia]

I am only insulted if she attempts to initiate after I have told her I am unavailable. If I have explained I have deadlines or am exhausted, and she continues to persist, this usually means she lacks respect for me.

I have a question for you. What if your sub came to you, originally asking for play, and because you were too tired, asked if they could lay down with you when you went to sleep? Would that insult you? (odd thing to ask, I know )

 

[Esclava]

I have a question for you. What if your sub came to you, originally asking for play, and because you were too tired, asked if they could lay down with you when you went to sleep? Would that insult you? (odd thing to ask, I know )

Not such an odd question, but I will reserve my comment until after Mr. Blonde has responded.

Esclava

 

[lizzie anne]

requests

I have seen it stated, repeatedly, that slaves/subs have no needs or desires except to please their Master/Mistress/Dom. To that end, I have a question...
===========

ok ok ok ok.......many many many subs/ of both sexes.....
have told me in writing or messengers....or on boards----
that they claim to have no wants...yet,...99.9% i find DO have needs/wants in s/m......

however......."I" personally........ask zero from my Ma'am..."I" serve.......to serve.
"I" have zero wants or needs. "I" am self contained and need no ONE or nothing...
i clean Her house coz it needs cleaning......not coz later i want my butt beat...or sex or whatever the hec have ya........
so yes."I" only try to please Her by being damn sure the house is clean 365......She will never have embarrassment if someone walks into Her house.
but then......also?......."I" have gone 1 full year real time now..
zero punishments
zero discilplines......

i am an adult that does not need to be treated like a child.....
just MY viewpoint...okay?.......whatever anyone else does?....if YOU folks like it...go for it!!

i am 100% domestics only.
thank you

 

[catalina_francisco]

Re: requests

I have seen it stated, repeatedly, that slaves/subs have no needs or desires except to please their Master/Mistress/Dom. To that end, I have a question...
===========

ok ok ok ok.......many many many subs/ of both sexes.....
have told me in writing or messengers....or on boards----
that they claim to have no wants...yet,...99.9% i find DO have needs/wants in s/m......

however......."I" personally........ask zero from my Ma'am..."I" serve.......to serve.
"I" have zero wants or needs. "I" am self contained and need no ONE or nothing...
i clean Her house coz it needs cleaning......not coz later i want my butt beat...or sex or whatever the hec have ya........
so yes."I" only try to please Her by being damn sure the house is clean 365......She will never have embarrassment if someone walks into Her house.
but then......also?......."I" have gone 1 full year real time now..
zero punishments
zero discilplines......

i am an adult that does not need to be treated like a child.....
just MY viewpoint...okay?.......whatever anyone else does?....if YOU folks like it...go for it!!

i am 100% domestics only.
thank you

Then again I see this as fulfilling a need or want in you too, just as others have their own. You say you serve to serve...presumably because that is something you want....and you say you want to please your Mistress, which IMO is fulfilling something for you, to know she is pleased and has no need to punish or be embarrassed as you say if visitors come. I think in our own peculiar ways we all serve to satisfy a need or want in ourselves, even if it is to act selflessly in the service of another who may never acknowledge their pleasure or displeasure with what we do.

Catalina

 

[Etoile]

Re: requests

I have seen it stated, repeatedly, that slaves/subs have no needs or desires except to please their Master/Mistress/Dom. To that end, I have a question...
===========

ok ok ok ok.......many many many subs/ of both sexes.....
have told me in writing or messengers....or on boards----
that they claim to have no wants...yet,...99.9% i find DO have needs/wants in s/m......

however......."I" personally........ask zero from my Ma'am..."I" serve.......to serve.
"I" have zero wants or needs. "I" am self contained and need no ONE or nothing...
i clean Her house coz it needs cleaning......not coz later i want my butt beat...or sex or whatever the hec have ya........
so yes."I" only try to please Her by being damn sure the house is clean 365......She will never have embarrassment if someone walks into Her house.
but then......also?......."I" have gone 1 full year real time now..
zero punishments
zero discilplines......

i am an adult that does not need to be treated like a child.....
just MY viewpoint...okay?.......whatever anyone else does?....if YOU folks like it...go for it!!

i am 100% domestics only.
thank you

This smacks of "subbier-than-thou" and "more mature than thou" but hopefully I'm wrong.

Also, if you are a domestic slave exclusively, what do you do for sexual fulfillment?