"To keep the review thread clean..."

[WickedEve]

you'll make him eat popcorn for breakfast?

I was kind of thinking about having him clean out my gutters and weed the garden.

 

[Tathagata]

I was kind of thinking about having him clean out my gutters and weed the garden.

that's just, well....wicked

 

[Guest]

Here is a little secret. I am finally exiting my first trimester and still suffering from morning sickness, afternoon sickness and evening sickness. I am doing my best to keep the scrotum ear image out of my mind, ew all I can think about is (gag) wrinkled testicle skin shaped into hairy ears but alas! out of control pubic hair caked with yellow ear wax and I swear already, I am half way to the bathroom. All I have really wanted to eat is cottage cheese and toast, maybe some plain noodles. And coconut popcicles. I force the rest down.

I am going to stop talking about it now or I will never stop. I was not this miserable with the other two pregnancies, and this one, SURPRISE, I feel like evil aliens have taken over my body and are punishing me for my poor planning skills, and my boobs are humungous already and they look at me like ha ha ha you thought you had regained control over your own body hahaha!

eh hem.

I am going to go take a shower.

Congratulations on the morning sickness, er, I mean the fetus!

 

[Tzara]

From the Fair Use Guidelines for Educational Media (emphasis mine):

4.2.2 Text Material

Up to 10% or 1000 words, whichever is less, in the aggregate of a copyrighted work consisting of text material may be reproduced or otherwise incorporated as part of a multimedia project created under Section 2 of these guidelines. An entire poem of less than 250 words may be used, but no more than three poems by one poet, or five poems by different poets from any anthology may be used. For poems of greater length, 250 words may be used but no more than three excerpts by a poet, or five excerpts by different poets from a single anthology may be used.​

Granted, one might question whether quoting a poem on the Literotica Poetry Feedback & Discussion forum constitutes "educational" use, but I think that is probably defensible, particularly when some comment about the poem is included.

Oh, and congratulations to Ms. Swirls. On her pregnancy, not the morning sickness.

 

[Angeline]

From the Fair Use Guidelines for Educational Media (emphasis mine):

4.2.2 Text Material

Up to 10% or 1000 words, whichever is less, in the aggregate of a copyrighted work consisting of text material may be reproduced or otherwise incorporated as part of a multimedia project created under Section 2 of these guidelines. An entire poem of less than 250 words may be used, but no more than three poems by one poet, or five poems by different poets from any anthology may be used. For poems of greater length, 250 words may be used but no more than three excerpts by a poet, or five excerpts by different poets from a single anthology may be used.​

Granted, one might question whether quoting a poem on the Literotica Poetry Feedback & Discussion forum constitutes "educational" use, but I think that is probably defensible, particularly when some comment about the poem is included.

Oh, and congratulations to Ms. Swirls. On her pregnancy, not the morning sickness.

I think it's even more complicated than that because this is an international site, so I'm not sure which country's copyright rules apply. In general though I know from being an editor that fair use covers short works and excerpts when they are being used for an "educational" purpose. And I forget what the rule is about old stuff. I think it has something to do with who benefits from publication, so that a work, even from the 19th century for example, could be covered under "fair use" guidelines if someone from the estate of the writer is benefitting from the publications.

But what purpose could I have posted that poem for, other than educational (however loosely that might be defined at a site like this)? It doesn't have any prurient value and I am sure as hell not making any money from putting it here. My experience has been that if I read a poem or two of someone new that I really dig, I'm actually more likely to go out and buy their book.

Oh well. I still agree with Tath. That guy came here months ago seemingly with the express purpose of picking arguments. He laid low for a while, came back and dredged up a thread that actually would have stayed dead otherwise, then waited like a flytrap for someone to come in so he could fart his rancor at them. And he does it in the name of a legitimate issue so he can backpedal and say he wasn't arguing.

Sheesh. When will people realize it's more fun to just write poems, talk about them, have a little friendly banter with people who feel the same way. Oh, that's right. Never.

 

[annaswirls]

Every six months or so I have a moment when I think it would be really wonderful to have another baby. I think about what a great kid ee and I could make. Then I think about the 18 years after that and I get over it.

Has this affected your writing? Are you writing more? Is it giving you dreams that have good writing possibility?

I am hardly writing at all. I am so tired all the time, I fall asleep when I put the kids to bed and have not time for writing or Mannequin Envy (trying to get that summer issue finished hint hint)

but I will consider doing a pregger's dreams series

 

[Cub4ucme]

From the Fair Use Guidelines for Educational Media (emphasis mine):

4.2.2 Text Material

Up to 10% or 1000 words, whichever is less, in the aggregate of a copyrighted work consisting of text material may be reproduced or otherwise incorporated as part of a multimedia project created under Section 2 of these guidelines. An entire poem of less than 250 words may be used, but no more than three poems by one poet, or five poems by different poets from any anthology may be used. For poems of greater length, 250 words may be used but no more than three excerpts by a poet, or five excerpts by different poets from a single anthology may be used.​

Granted, one might question whether quoting a poem on the Literotica Poetry Feedback & Discussion forum constitutes "educational" use, but I think that is probably defensible, particularly when some comment about the poem is included.

Oh, and congratulations to Ms. Swirls. On her pregnancy, not the morning sickness.

4.1 Time Limitations
Educators may use their educational multimedia projects created for educational purposes under Section 2 of these guidelines for teaching courses, for a period of up to two years after the first instructional use with a class.

Does this appear to be a poetry class with qualified educators?


This is just another example of someone trying to get around the facts.


What you are quoting is a small section of a large body of law governing use of copyrighted material.

It is illegal to copy and paste published poetry without the expressed permission of the author or owner of the work period.

This is not an accredited classroom with paid educators.

It's sad that people continue to defend something that is so obviously
wrong. Why couldn't any of you just use a hyperlink to direct someone to a site where the work was published with permission to begin with?

You know if any of you were legitimate poets than you wouldn't be contesting my point and maybe that is the point that should be addressed.

I have reported the violations since trying to get you to understand
that what you are doing is both morally and legally wrong seems to be
a useless endeavor.

It might take someone getting cited or losing their posting privaledges before you begin to understand that someone's art is not yours do whatever the fuck you feel like with.

That said, I do realize there was not intention to harm but, that doesn't mean that harm isn't done on a broad scale in regard to the art of poetry itself.

Next time I suggest you read the entire law instead of quoting a small section that at first glance appears to lend creedance to a useless defense. What's wrong is wrong period.

andy

 

[annaswirls]

in navy--

I dont think it was a personal attack


um... dude, I am sorry you saw my personal attack as directed towards you. I mean, unless I missed something, did you comment on his testicles? I didn't see it!

I told him there was a post already,why didn't he disagree over there? he chose this post simply to bug Ange.

maybe he did post it to bug Ange, maybe he really believes it. I am not here taking sides, just saying that he has a point in the whole posting poetry here... and trust me I have mixed feelings about it, mostly think it can usually only do a writer good


I responded.
as is my right also I assume?

why wouldn't it be?

he's a troll and a baiter


certainly, but he also sometimes has a good point, even if delivered in a shitty way, and I liked the way that Eve answered his point.

that's my opinion
he comes here looking to bust balls
that's my opinion


i understand how you feel, but in this case i don't agree
and that's as simple and as plain as i can be.


I am not sure what you don't agree with, but that is okay. I don't think he should sink to personal attacks, it is a bad habit that does no one any good.


good luck with the child and i wish you a healthy and happy baby
children are little gods who can teach us all alot

yep, and thanks

 

[LeBroz]

Here is a little secret. I am finally exiting my first trimester and still suffering from morning sickness, afternoon sickness and evening sickness. I am doing my best to keep the scrotum ear image out of my mind, ew all I can think about is (gag) wrinkled testicle skin shaped into hairy ears but alas! out of control pubic hair caked with yellow ear wax and I swear already, I am half way to the bathroom. All I have really wanted to eat is cottage cheese and toast, maybe some plain noodles. And coconut popcicles. I force the rest down.

I am going to stop talking about it now or I will never stop. I was not this miserable with the other two pregnancies, and this one, SURPRISE, I feel like evil aliens have taken over my body and are punishing me for my poor planning skills, and my boobs are humungous already and they look at me like ha ha ha you thought you had regained control over your own body hahaha!

eh hem.

I am going to go take a shower.

Congratulations on starting the adventure all over once again. And with perpetual 24/7 sickness to boot! Our first had my wife spending so much time at the porcelain altar that she was afraid to eat till her doctor put her on Maalox for the duration. So much for the mystique of pregnancy. Hope yours settles down so you can relish those strange cravings.

.
.
.

 

[Angeline]

I am hardly writing at all. I am so tired all the time, I fall asleep when I put the kids to bed and have not time for writing or Mannequin Envy (trying to get that summer issue finished hint hint)

but I will consider doing a pregger's dreams series

Message received. I'll stop worrying over them like the anxiety-ridden perfectionist I am and just email.

 

[annaswirls]

I was thinking the same thing, ealier. The part about the porn board. I think we forget where we are sometimes...

me too I had a woman who had a poem published at M.Envy who did not want any nudity in the art on the page with her poem. That is why I thought people might not want their work associated with Literotica, no matter how much WE know who we are in here....just "normal" people...

 

[annaswirls]

Congratulations on the morning sickness, er, I mean the fetus!

thank you! I hope she is sweet as yours!

 

[Cub4ucme]

Oh you don't think I should sink to personal attacks huh?

This site is just a playground for people that can't seem to follow threads.

I didn't start with the personal attack.

I just don't take shit from simpletons who attack me for posting
something that I truly believe to be right about in my heart.

When I get attacked I bite back and I will continue to do it
without regard for people who are too blind to follow the
progression of a thread.

best,
andy

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Congratulations, Anna!

 

[annaswirls]

Regardless of his, her, our, their motivations or history here, it is still an interesting and worthwhile discussion point. If you erase all of the names and histories (and extra personality thinggies) and just really think about the issue-- you know?

And from what I can tell, this is NOT about Angeline, at least it is not about her for me. TONS of people do this here. It was just the thread that was found.

What if someone else would have posted the question on copyright....? Someone like SJ or TRM?

Hey, why don't you ask Laurel about it? She and Manu (as far as I know) are the only ones making money in this venture called Literotica, and the ones that could get in trouble if a real copyright issue were brought up. She should keep her moderators up to date with these things.

And what about the lyrics pages? Is Lyle Lovett going to come spank me? I post his words there all the time.

And I believe in the long run, having samples of people's work here is overall a good thing for the poet and publishers. As I said before, I have bought books of poetry that I never would have, because of work I have seen here. But then again, it is always a good idea when quoting someone's work to include a link where you can read more, give credit where credit is due, and up the chances that someone might actually support the original publisher and/or artist.

Thinking as an editor (who loses a lot of money every year and is not in it for the money, don't ask me what I am in it for, I do not remember) BUT if someone liked a poem that we published, and wanted to post it elsewhere to be read, I would appreciate if they would include a link to our site where the poem was originally published.

I think it's even more complicated than that because this is an international site, so I'm not sure which country's copyright rules apply. In general though I know from being an editor that fair use covers short works and excerpts when they are being used for an "educational" purpose. And I forget what the rule is about old stuff. I think it has something to do with who benefits from publication, so that a work, even from the 19th century for example, could be covered under "fair use" guidelines if someone from the estate of the writer is benefitting from the publications.

But what purpose could I have posted that poem for, other than educational (however loosely that might be defined at a site like this)? It doesn't have any prurient value and I am sure as hell not making any money from putting it here. My experience has been that if I read a poem or two of someone new that I really dig, I'm actually more likely to go out and buy their book.

Oh well. I still agree with Tath. That guy came here months ago seemingly with the express purpose of picking arguments. He laid low for a while, came back and dredged up a thread that actually would have stayed dead otherwise, then waited like a flytrap for someone to come in so he could fart his rancor at them. And he does it in the name of a legitimate issue so he can backpedal and say he wasn't arguing.

Sheesh. When will people realize it's more fun to just write poems, talk about them, have a little friendly banter with people who feel the same way. Oh, that's right. Never.

 

[annaswirls]

Congratulations, Anna!

Thanks!

If it is a girl, I might actually name her Anna-- it is a good name, yes?

 

[annaswirls]

Congratulations on starting the adventure all over once again. And with perpetual 24/7 sickness to boot! Our first had my wife spending so much time at the porcelain altar that she was afraid to eat till her doctor put her on Maalox for the duration. So much for the mystique of pregnancy. Hope yours settles down so you can relish those strange cravings.

.
.
.

thanks Just had an ultrasound, the little bugger is a kicker.

and I promise to stop talking about it.

 

[Tzara]

4.1 Time Limitations
Educators may use their educational multimedia projects created for educational purposes under Section 2 of these guidelines for teaching courses, for a period of up to two years after the first instructional use with a class.

Does this appear to be a poetry class with qualified educators?


This is just another example of someone trying to get around the facts.


What you are quoting is a small section of a large body of law governing use of copyrighted material.

What I was quoting was not law, which if you had read it you would have noticed. It was a guideline document produced by a university consortium. It was quoted to indicate that there are circumstances under which quotation of creative work is allowable without obtaining the copyright owner's permission. I rather doubt that copyright law specifically indcates that one much be an "educator" to take advantage of fair use.

It is illegal to copy and paste published poetry without the expressed permission of the author or owner of the work period.

This is a pretty straightforward statement. Your legal citation for this statement is? Perhaps you are an intellectual property attorney?

This is not an accredited classroom with paid educators.

Now one has to be an "accredited" educator to take advantage of fair use?

It's sad that people continue to defend something that is so obviously
wrong. Why couldn't any of you just use a hyperlink to direct someone to a site where the work was published with permission to begin with?

That's actually a good idea. I have thought about doing that in the past and perhaps will do so in the future, although how does one determine that the linked site has the author's permission to post the work?

And I was not necessarily defending the practice--merely pointing out that a defense was perhaps possible.

You know if any of you were legitimate poets than you wouldn't be contesting my point and maybe that is the point that should be addressed.

Ad hominem argument, Andy. This doesn't win you any logic points.

As an aside, may I ask if you are a "legitimate poet?" I have read some of your work and I am curious how you rate yourself.

I have reported the violations since trying to get you to understand
that what you are doing is both morally and legally wrong seems to be
a useless endeavor.

It might take someone getting cited or losing their posting privaledges before you begin to understand that someone's art is not yours do whatever the fuck you feel like with.

That said, I do realize there was not intention to harm but, that doesn't mean that harm isn't done on a broad scale in regard to the art of poetry itself.

Next time I suggest you read the entire law instead of quoting a small section that at first glance appears to lend creedance to a useless defense. What's wrong is wrong period.

andy

Your fervor is admirable, though the tenor of your attacks does not aid your argument. Nor do the obvious errors in your comments (again, what I referenced was not law). And you do raise an important issue. I'd suggest, though, you tone down the attack dog style.

Just a suggestion, though.

 

[Cub4ucme]

I think it's even more complicated than that because this is an international site, so I'm not sure which country's copyright rules apply. In general though I know from being an editor that fair use covers short works and excerpts when they are being used for an "educational" purpose. And I forget what the rule is about old stuff. I think it has something to do with who benefits from publication, so that a work, even from the 19th century for example, could be covered under "fair use" guidelines if someone from the estate of the writer is benefitting from the publications.

But what purpose could I have posted that poem for, other than educational (however loosely that might be defined at a site like this)? It doesn't have any prurient value and I am sure as hell not making any money from putting it here. My experience has been that if I read a poem or two of someone new that I really dig, I'm actually more likely to go out and buy their book.

Oh well. I still agree with Tath. That guy came here months ago seemingly with the express purpose of picking arguments. He laid low for a while, came back and dredged up a thread that actually would have stayed dead otherwise, then waited like a flytrap for someone to come in so he could fart his rancor at them. And he does it in the name of a legitimate issue so he can backpedal and say he wasn't arguing.

Sheesh. When will people realize it's more fun to just write poems, talk about them, have a little friendly banter with people who feel the same way. Oh, that's right. Never.

Madam Editor,

Let me point something out to you so that there is no confusion in the future.
The law of the country where the poetry is copyrighted or published with restrictions is pertinant in each individual case. That said, most copyright law is based on International Law so your point holds very little validity.

Fair use is a very broad term that does not apply to copying and pasting published poetry in the Literotica Forum without expressed permission from the author or owner of the work. It's really not rocket science. You can stretch it and bend it all you want. What you are effectively doing is mudding the work of another author and in a very real sense you diminish the value of the work by doing so each time.

Let's just say you were a painter and I had the ability to recreate your ORIGINAL painting as many times as I wanted to recreate it. Let's assume it had the same artistic value on a wall as it has on a computer screen. You might get ten dollars for your painting or ten thousand dollars for it before I come along. Then I decide I like it so much I want the whole damn world to share it so I copy and paste it all over the net. Then the people who see it and like it decide to print it out and hang it on their walls. This is all with the assumption that the painting looses no artistic integrity in the process which we know is impossible with flatwork. At some point that ten thousand dollar painting is now worth about as much money as it takes to buy the ink and paper it took to print it.

With poetry it's so damn easy to whore it and then when it gets whored people like you who supposedly have some credentials as an editor defend the reproduction as if you have some leg to stand on. It's absurd, offensive
and does damage to any poet who is serious about the art to begin with.

As far as backpeddling goes you can kiss my ass. I didn't dredge up a thread
it was on the first page. I read many of the threads and I have been reading the threads all along. What the hell do you know about my habits or what I do when I get on the Internet. The problem with you is that you don't like the idea of someone stating their mind when they have a legitimate complaint.

I post all over the net and don't have the same problems I have in your cozy little fuck forum. I'm not bothered by your opinions of me because they are based on your own blatant ignorance.

And as far as copyright laws go let's just wait and see what the authors and publishers of the poetry have to say about your practices of copying and pasting their work in here under the guise of education.

best,
andy

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Thanks!

If it is a girl, I might actually name her Anna-- it is a good name, yes?

Yes, it is.

 

[annaswirls]

should you sink to personal attacks? I guess that depends upon your overall goal. They generally do not do anyone any good from what I have seen.

You are a smart guy, and good for you that you do not take shit from people. But you must know there are many ways of "not taking shit" from people. Personal attacks or "biting back" is just one way. If you are looking to make a legit point, to maybe expand someone's mind, affect their behavior, or just want to be taken seriously, it simply does not work, nothing personal.

I have a short memory and do not remember names people have called me or when they have been mean to me. I am grateful for that.

Oh you don't think I should sink to personal attacks huh?

This site is just a playground for people that can't seem to follow threads.

I didn't start with the personal attack.

I just don't take shit from simpletons who attack me for posting
something that I truly believe to be right about in my heart.

When I get attacked I bite back and I will continue to do it
without regard for people who are too blind to follow the
progression of a thread.

best,
andy

 

[Cub4ucme]

As an aside, may I ask if you are a "legitimate poet?" I have read some of your work and I am curious how you rate yourself.>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Quote:


I don't rate myself. That's up to the individual and is completely subjective.
I can say that I can sell my poetry and do so on a regular basis. Does that make me a legitimate poet-- no.

That's the best answer I can offer you.

andy

 

[annaswirls]

i could think of worse places to be.

Since you are here, I would like to hear your opinion on whether or not it is a good or bad idea to post other poet's work here without their permission. I know you regularly take down your work when it is published. How would you feel if one of us took a poem of yours that we read in your book, and posted it without permission? Or if another site did so, a perfectly sweet and kind person who genuinely just wanted to share your work because they thought you were good-- a place where the people did not know you-- lets say

smuterotica.com

You have had contact with many widely published, "legitimate" poets. What is the buzz?

 

[Tzara]

As an aside, may I ask if you are a "legitimate poet?" I have read some of your work and I am curious how you rate yourself.>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Quote:


I don't rate myself. That's up to the individual and is completely subjective.
I can say that I can sell my poetry and do so on a regular basis. Does that make me a legitimate poet-- no.

That's the best answer I can offer you.

andy

Then what is your definition of what makes one a "legitimate poet?" Apparently you feel no one here is, and you don't rate your own work. How does one get to be a "legitimate poet?"

Does your statement that rating is "up to the individual and is completely subjective" apply to other poets too? If so, how can there be any "legimate poets," unless you mean this purely as a term describing your own sensibilities?

Again, just curious.

 

[Angeline]

Madam Editor,

Let me point something out to you so that there is no confusion in the future.
The law of the country where the poetry is copyrighted or published with restrictions is pertinant in each individual case. That said, most copyright law is based on International Law so your point holds very little validity.

Fair use is a very broad term that does not apply to copying and pasting published poetry in the Literotica Forum without expressed permission from the author or owner of the work. It's really not rocket science. You can stretch it and bend it all you want. What you are effectively doing is mudding the work of another author and in a very real sense you diminish the value of the work by doing so each time.

Let's just say you were a painter and I had the ability to recreate your ORIGINAL painting as many times as I wanted to recreate it. Let's assume it had the same artistic value on a wall as it has on a computer screen. You might get ten dollars for your painting or ten thousand dollars for it before I come along. Then I decide I like it so much I want the whole damn world to share it so I copy and paste it all over the net. Then the people who see it and like it decide to print it out and hang it on their walls. This is all with the assumption that the painting looses no artistic integrity in the process which we know is impossible with flatwork. At some point that ten thousand dollar painting is now worth about as much money as it takes to buy the ink and paper it took to print it.

With poetry it's so damn easy to whore it and then when it gets whored people like you who supposedly have some credentials as an editor defend the reproduction as if you have some leg to stand on. It's absurd, offensive
and does damage to any poet who is serious about the art to begin with.

As far as backpeddling goes you can kiss my ass. I didn't dredge up a thread
it was on the first page. I read many of the threads and I have been reading the threads all along. What the hell do you know about my habits or what I do when I get on the Internet. The problem with you is that you don't like the idea of someone stating their mind when they have a legitimate complaint.

I post all over the net and don't have the same problems I have in your cozy little fuck forum. I'm not bothered by your opinions of me because they are based on your own blatant ignorance.

And as far as copyright laws go let's just wait and see what the authors and publishers of the poetry have to say about your practices of copying and pasting their work in here under the guise of education.

best,
andy

Show me your source. The last time I read the rules they were clear for print, not for web publishing. Copyright law is more art than science; there are many conflicting rules depending on what you read.

The only problem you have in this forum is that you are rude and nasty and people are moved to respond in kind--or not respond at all.

Your huffing and puffing is meaningless to me. I've worked for enough big publishers to know the rules and to know it's not black and white. Funny thing is, I understand your point and it's a good one. And if you go back and read my posts, you'll find I never said that people don't get paid for their poems. I said they don't make a living at it--well very few ever have. I also said if any publisher wants me to remove a poem I will.

Really, you're wasting your time with me. I'm not intimidated by you. You're the type of person my bosses would ask me to write letters to to make you go away. Maybe you'll have better luck with someone else.