"To keep the review thread clean..."

[unpredictablebijou]

Things I've learned as a Lit "newbie"

I've been meaning to do something like this for a while and now seems like a good time. Anyone who looks at my post number and compares it to my arrival date can deduce a couple of things:

- I have WAY too much spare time
- I've interacted a great deal on this board. I talk too fucking much.
- I am still, for all that, relatively new here and can thus still speak as a "newbie" in a few ways.

That said, for a couple of months now I've been making a mental list of "advice for newbies" that I've thought any number of times about posting. Stuff I've learned, for better or worse. It's not entirely diplomatic nor do I pretend any lack of bias, and i may be informed that "PantslessInSeattle69" did exactly this thread four years ago and I'm just being redundant, but for what it's worth, here's what I've learned. Keep in mind that this is really my first and only experience with the "village" setting that is an online forum of any sort, although I've watched a number of other forums in action since finding this one, and suspect that many of the rules are similar elsewhere. And understand that most of these lessons were learned the hard way. I've screwed up a lot. I intend no insult to anyone old or new, but I sure wish someone had coached me through a bit of this early on...

First: If you're new, don't expect that you can do what everyone else is doing. Written communication is unreliable and you can be taken wrong. If I give Champagne or Angeline amiable shit about something, I get away with it because they've gotten to know me. Someone they don't know would be taken differently. And as we've all seen at least once, innocuous comments can be misinterpreted and touch off immense and pointless conflicts.

Second: watch out for all those unwritten rules. I had a hard lesson in that early on. I saw a nice horny girl get on the AH and ask for some orgy stories to be written about her. I thought it was adorable. Several women immediately took the time and effort to get on her thread and abuse her for this request. It was ridiculously cruel. So of course, I got on and protested, for which I was stalked around the threads for a while by one of the more vociferous abusers. I thought it was rather silly that in a forum in which topics like lactose intolerance and bunny pictures are perfectly fine (AS LONG AS THEY'RE STARTED BY SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN THERE FOR A WHILE, or "someone we like" or "someone we're hot for") an actual request for stories would be abused so badly.

I was right. They were wrong. Now that I'm more experienced in this village, I will still assert that. I But in order to not have an eternal conflict with someone who has a genuine "posse" to back her/him up, right or wrong, I was forced to show my throat. I don't hang out on the AH much anymore. The snarky elitism drove me off. (grin).

Third: you're going to run across stuff that is outrageous, both in posts and in submissions. Here's a trick: click on the name and read through their recent posts. Get a feel for their ideas and goals. Is the person a psycho or a moron? Ignore them. Don't waste your time. Don't waste energy being offended. Don't honor it with your attention. Or else, protest and get the hell out before you start taking it personally and getting involved in meaningless pissing contests.
Aside to lorencino: With all affection, darling, sweetness, really. Did you read anything else she's submitted here? Is it really worth getting offended? Personally, I found the idea of "I can't get an errection (sic)" to the tune of the Stones' "Satisfaction" far more offensive than sentiments about lesbians. Anyone being truly influenced by her views in forums or submissions, well, there's no helping them anyway.


Fourth: If you do feel like you'd like to wield a sword for truth and justice around a forum like this, by all means do so. But wait until you've allowed people to get to know you. And for an excellent example of how to do so while remaining an icon of fairness and peace, I can think of no one better to watch than Black Shanglan. He's constantly being called out by the most oxygen-wasting troglodytes on the board to discuss bullshit economics and sexist drivel, and he is with few exceptions patient, well-spoken and tolerant, even with the worst of the flesh-eating virii that lurk around here.

Fifth: There will be people occasionally who have issues with you for no good reason at all. Perhaps you remind them of an ex-husband, or their drug dealer, or that trick that left without paying. Who knows. Stay chill. Ignore it. I'll say that again. Stay chill. Ignore it. Repeat as necessary.

Lastly: when sending a private message, a menu screen will come up that asks you if you want to confirm receipt of the message. The other choice is "cancel" which seems to imply that your message will otherwise not be sent at all. This is confusing, I know. Be sure to hit "cancel" or everyone will know you're a newbie.

Just tryin' to help the new kids. I pretend no actual authority here.
except as Her Royal Nymphiness of Shenanigans Sara Crewe's Evil Grand Vizier.

bijou

 

[The_Fool]

I think I just did.

Maybe you and I can hook up and....like...spout nonsense together?

 

[lorencino]

To champagne1982

Canada is still not in bed with the United States of America in Iraq.

The latest information from the horse's mouth is that the US did not want Canadian troops on the ground in Iraq. Canada would be far more useful, it was felt at the time, to free up US troops in Afghanistan for redeployment to Iraq and so the Martin government sent the limited troops Canada had at the time to Afghanistan. The Canadian Navy, also relatively limited at the time, deployed as many ships as were seaworthy and could be spared to patrol the waters of the Persian Gulf in support of the Invasion of Iraq. In addition to that there is also the long-standing co-operation between US and Canadian military forces with regard to training and the regular swapping of personnel. This has resulted in a small number of Canadian military personnel actually doing duty that is directly involved with the war in Iraq while on these exchanges. So irrespective of who you vote for in Canada and who wins elections your military remains closely linked to the US military. We can have our little appearance of spats and supposed independence, but when push comes to shove no serious rift will happen between Canada and the US

eta: Are you saying that everyone who is pro-life is also pro-involvement in Iraq?

No I am not and no matter how I try to work it out I'm failing to follow the line of logic that leads you to suggest that I may be doing that. What I am suggesting, in fact, is that you have a situation in the US where a politician may stand for everything a particular person believes in with regard to foreign policy and domestic policy except for one little item, like abortion, or perhaps, homosexuality and that particular person will simply not vote for that politician. Notice how careful nearly every politicians is to indicate that they are devout practitioners of their religion and devoted to their families. I'm simply saying that a substantial portion of the electorate will elevate one item to supreme importance and ignore the rest of reality in deciding who to choose in an election.

I'm suggesting that there is a real problem when a country with both the most powerful economy and the most powerful military the world has ever seen has a large proportion of its electorate adopt a simplistic view of life. The US was founded on a number of fundamental and important principles. One of these is the separation of church and state. Yet there are literally millions of people in the US today who believe that their religious principles should be identical with the laws of the state and are actively pursuing the realization of that belief. They also deny that it was the intention of the Founding Fathers of the USA to separate church and state. [/QUOTE]

You're speaking with your gut. That's okay, it shows your poet's soul. You're also not allowing yourself a cool down period between thought and pen in order to present an inarguable view.

I am not attacking you or your politics, I'm just saying that in order to communicate effectively in a public forum, we should do so in an environment where respect for all views can be kept to the fore.

Signed, Carrie... just another devil's advocate.

Unpredictablebijou posted the remarks I quoted at 5pm yesterday and I replied 17 hours later. During those 17 hours I had a good night's sleep and spent a great deal of the remainder of the time pondering this whole debate. I lot of stuff was posted earlier, some of which I have responded to and some of which I am still debating in my head. Because I am unsure about it. I think it is a misperception to see me as speaking from the gut if you mean that that is exclusively where my thoughts are coming from.

From what I have seen around here, you, champagne1982, have one of the sharpest minds going and judging from the literature you have posted, you are hugely talented (and I mean hugely) with few peers. Your statement: “. . . I'm just saying that in order to communicate effectively in a public forum, we should do so in an environment where respect for all views can be kept to the fore,” is one that I can agree with, but it is a question of a fine balance between respecting other opinions and feeling that you dare not voice opposition to another's opinion for fear of offending.

The whole point of everything I have been saying today is that the reluctance to debate political issues substantively is really bad news for the future of democracy. This means you have to contradict each other's opinions, even attack each other's opinion which is quite distinct from attacking each other. We have to get over being personally hurt whenever our opinions are called into question.

 

[DeepAsleep]

Thanks to everyone who commented on Black Dress - and thanks to Angeline for giving it a mention. To those who mentioned it: It is a performance piece, I just don't have it recorded. Which I should do, with several of my bits and whatnots, but I just haven't gotten there, yet.

Anyway. Thank you's, & etc.

~Ross

 

[champagne1982]

No I am not and no matter how I try to work it out I'm failing to follow the line of logic that leads you to suggest that I may be doing that.

You spoke of a politician having a policy program to withdraw out of Iraq but loses an election because of having an abortion... sounds like pro-life = pro-involvement. The other crap about ads and bad press means nothing ... What you said, in my understanding, was that the religious right would kick Hilary's ass for having an abortion.

I, sometimes, speak from the gut and it's not really wise. As you say, there should always be internal debate on morality, or else we're not being very moral individuals. Thanks for taking the time to counter my responses and clarify some of your thinking to me. It helps me clear my own.

 

[Sara Crewe]

The snarky elitism drove me off. (grin).


bijou

Fucking snarky elitists...off with their heads, your grand vizierness! Or is it politically incorrect to behead people? I always have a hard time making decisions after 11:00. Let me go find a dead daisy with a couple of petals still clinging by a dried up vein or two and then I will play "behead-go to bed-behead-go to bed...."


Sara-The-Never-Serious-Except-when-I-am-Nymph

 

[lorencino]

You spoke of a politician having a policy program to withdraw out of Iraq but loses an election because of having an abortion... sounds like pro-life = pro-involvement. The other crap about ads and bad press means nothing ... What you said, in my understanding, was that the religious right would kick Hilary's ass for having an abortion.

I, sometimes, speak from the gut and it's not really wise. As you say, there should always be internal debate on morality, or else we're not being very moral individuals. Thanks for taking the time to counter my responses and clarify some of your thinking to me. It helps me clear my own.

What I was saying was that a person who was anti-involvement would not vote for the only anti-involvement candidate if the candidate offended against one of that person's blind spots. My concern is that if a candidate offers a program that will save millions of lives and improve the lives of billions they will not get some people's vote because of any number of single-issue items that are blown completely out of proportion.

It is my impression that this is not confined to an extreme right or left fringe but is gradually spreading throughout our society and even taints my thinking from time to time. There are so many manipulative forces of government and corporate propaganda at work on our collective psychi that increasingly people feel powerless to effect change. I believe it is the artist with integrity, and that includes poets, who is the most powerful counter to opportunistic propaganda.

Shakespeare wrote at a time when the new order of emerging capitalism was destroying the commons and long established feudal rights and obligations. He wrote in the turmoil of revolutionary times which eventually lead to the beheading of Charles I. His art is powerful, universally appealing and will last as long as human's exist because he did not shy away from the powerful forces reverberating through his society, but addressed them directly with consummate skill.

I appreciate the opportunity of having this discussion with you.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Always keep your sense of humour even if it is completely different from anyone elses and your comments go way over some peoples heads. Particularly those with pompous tendencies who like to hear the sound of there own voices and bore the rest of us to zzzzzzzzzz. Don't take it personally that they appear to have had a sense of humour by-pass while yours is still up and running and you are very tempted to make comments that definitely would not be appreciated.

Personally I have found that on the most part this board has the most helpful, kind and caring folk that will go that extra mile for a newbie and it hurts me that they are hurting. Newbies do yourself a favour get to know them before you blast them to smithereens!

 

[Unbridled_Passion]

Sorry for the delay, but thank you Angeline for mentioning my poem, Sweet Potato Pie on Saturday. It was fun to write, and is very tasty, lol!

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I see Ramona is at it again and as was formerly suggested appears to have abandoned her brain cells considering what upset was caused before.

 

[lorencino]

I see Ramona is at it again and as was formerly suggested appears to have abandoned her brain cells considering what upset was caused before.

One of the most heartwarming movies to come out of the USA since the expulsion of Charlie Chaplin, in fact, one of the most heartwarming movies to come out of the Third Planet from the Sun since Charlie Chaplin's The Great Dictator, for the BIBLE tells me so is so gut-wrenchingly beautiful as a film of hope in a time of unparalleled despair that I have no hesitation in recommending in to anyone with even half of a braincell left.

This documentary is beautiful in the sense of portraying the real-life victory of selfless familial love over scripturally justified evil. Frankly, I have no qualms in opining that, at the international level, a certain brand of religious fundamentalism found within at least four (4) major world religions has abandoned the most noble instrument for deriving ethical truth, the human conscience, in favour of blind obedience to irrationally selected texts of the most questionable sections of their religious tracts which are interpreted in such a way as to produce unadulterated evil.

for the BIBLE tells me so deals with this problem head on by showing six fundamentalists Christian families that literally become the battleground for the struggle between good and evil the struggle of parents trying to reconcile their love for their sons or daughters who have come out of the closet and the rigid demands of their faith. One of the six families is a well-known politician whom I have throat-constricting admiration for after seeing this film. There is also a particularly genteel Jewish theologean in addition to a number of Christian theologeans who offer a loving alternative perspective to spiritual inclusion of the gay community without expecting them to live a life of celibacy.

I would never have guessed how much hope I was to carry from the theatre after seeing the film. I was in two minds about seeing it and feel extremely fortunate that I decided to go. The hope has everything to do with the incredible courage of people refusing to allow bigotry to overrun their society once they realize the enormity of the problem. Prior to seeing this film, the enormity of the problem was my focus. Now I am reassured that there are good people at work, including the makers of this film. The film is worth seeing and the filmmakers are worth supporting.

There is a list of upcoming screenings HERE.
A trailer is available HERE.
The movie's home page is HERE

You have my word of honour that I am in no way connected with the makers of this film and have no commercial interest in it at all. I happened to catch it recently at the Vancouver International Film Festival and believe that it is an essential film to see given the state of things today.

 

[lorencino]

God Bless the little imp

Ramona: I can't talk with this big aching smile that is using up my mouth.

Drapped in the flag, we can dance the night away

For those of you who are wondering what I'm ranting about:
God Bless The Gays In The U.S.A.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Well I am sorry but someone who can spout such vitriol in one poem then the complete opposite in another isn't for me. Maybe I don't have the poet in my soul that I can't write from both sides of the fence, but I write what I believe in and that's from my soul NOT what anyone else thinks I should write. If someone wrote a poem about me with such hate in it damned if I would be clasping hands with them if the next one was full of love.

 

[lorencino]

Well I am sorry but someone who can spout such vitriol in one poem then the complete opposite in another isn't for me. Maybe I don't have the poet in my soul that I can't write from both sides of the fence, but I write what I believe in and that's from my soul NOT what anyone else thinks I should write. If someone wrote a poem about me with such hate in it damned if I would be clasping hands with them if the next one was full of love.

But that's only because you have the advantage of not having abandoned your brain cells.

Looking at the whole saga, you have to find this laughable or else it will destroy your brain cells.

I am serious about the movie recommendation, though. The film is a veritable paean to compassionate understanding.

 

[lorencino]

.
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l8bloom is back with a charming offering in The Stevenson Memorial. What could have been a short and simple little poem is given a breath of freshness, creativity, and little snippets of imagery so well interlinked that it's almost impossible to fairly quote a sample to entice you on to read it without quoting a major piece of her poem. The best I can say is go read it. Now.

.
.

Can someone help me understand this poem. It is full of rich imagery that is captivating but as I travel through the lines I feel I am just outside the periphery of understanding and then the last light knocks me completely into the dark. It is like being tickled. I almost know what it is about but I can't quite get it. It's like that word that sits tantalizingly on the tip of your tongue and simply refuses to unveil itself and fly from your mouth.

 

[champagne1982]

Can someone help me understand this poem. It is full of rich imagery that is captivating but as I travel through the lines I feel I am just outside the periphery of understanding and then the last light knocks me completely into the dark. It is like being tickled. I almost know what it is about but I can't quite get it. It's like that word that sits tantalizingly on the tip of your tongue and simply refuses to unveil itself and fly from your mouth.

Hi Lawrence. I think it's about an angel.

 

[LeBroz]

Hi Lawrence. I think it's about an angel.

Or a mother ... or both. Among the appealing things I found in this poem is the way she is described in terms of what she isn't {and simultaneously, is}. It just makes it such a compelling read.

.
.

 

[lorencino]

Quintessential Angel-Mother

Thanks Carrie, LeBroz, that begins to make more sense now. Now I'm beginning to wonder if it could be referring to the Virgin Mary. The wound that gushed saline could be the centurian's spear wound to the heart of the crucified Son who she will hold again after the resurrection. Perhaps?

 

[LeBroz]

Thanks Carrie, LeBroz, that begins to make more sense now. Now I'm beginning to wonder if it could be referring to the Virgin Mary. The wound that gushed saline could be the centurian's spear wound to the heart of the crucified Son who she will hold again after the resurrection. Perhaps?

If I'd been paying better attention, I'd have pointed you here — tks to Tess's comment on the poem, my forehead's getting flatter...

.
.

 

[WhiteWave48]

Beautiful logic

*****

 

[WhiteWave48]

Thanks

*****

 

[BradBigBrain]

Thanks LeBroz. She's beautiful. The poem is beautiful too - such a pleasure to encounter during the working week.

She is beautiful.

 

[lorencino]

On seeing the picture everything becomes clear. Thanks to all of you for the journey of discovery of what this poem is about.

 

[fieryjen]

I'd like to thank Vampiredust and Angeline for mentioning my poem yesterday. I appreciate the kind words and constructive feedback, and I was really excited to see it mentioned

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

My heartfelt thanks to Ange and 1201 for taking the time to read and comment on my latest poem even if 1201 found it lacking.

I tend to agree with him.