"To keep the review thread clean..."

[bflagsst]

...To say that Corinna's is "a far better poem" because it is "sweet" is to critique on the basis of subject matter rather than execution; without making any claims for my own poem, I think we can agree that there exist good poems-- even good erotic poems-- that aren't sweet.

Listen, I'm not about arguing with poets who I think care about poetry. I couldn't really give some massive critique of your Galatean poem, however I could make minor points, place it against Corinna's. I don't want to have to say 'I believe' or 'In my Opinion' every time I write something, but my belief is the reason your poem doesn't come across as well as Corinna's is because love itself is a submissive act. Dominant poems are almost always from the solipsistic pov, they still need to have that bit of personal submission found within every instance of Love. Technically I don't like the phrasing of your poem, but that's something totally different.

There's nothing wrong with competition, makes for a better poet. If I place you in competition in a critique it shouldn't matter to you, how you view your poem and your relationship has nothing to do with me. Now think about this, I figure those two poems come from the same poet, so the poet is competing against themself. It doesn't matter to me if there are two poets or one, there are two different poems in a relation and each can be critiqued differently.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

Cal Y Pygia, ellynei probably won't read or get the point of your poem, she's from the other side. Your exclamations are silly, good Aztec image with the toothed vagina though. Turn on your public comments. It's odd you respond to some perceived slight about ! in poetry with a thesis and a grand poem but won't comment on the poetry of your peers. Favoriting all your own stuff also bums me out, I don't even think Safe does that.


Edit: I was wrong, she does.

How incredibly egotistical. I had not noticed, thanks for pointing it out. I'll avoid those poets in the future.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

Monday, June 08, 2009

Double post.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

okay.. is the recommendations thread on hiatus? I just tried to post my recommendations for today twice.

Anyone know what's up?

ETA:

nevermind. It was no doubt related to the server issues today.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

Edit: I was wrong, she does.

Whoa. I don't know what is going on between you and SB, nor do I really care to know. (No offense, I'm just not a fan of drama.) But, I do feel the need to point out that I cannot even count the many times that SB has given me feedback, comments, and compliments on my poetry. (Just look at my sig.) And, I do believe there were many times that she asked for feedback and advice when working on poems. Someone who is egotistical doesn't do that. Someone who doesn't care about poetry doesn't do that.

 

[EroticOrogeny]

Cal Y Pygia, ellynei probably won't read or get the point of your poem, she's from the other side. Your exclamations are silly, good Aztec image with the toothed vagina though. Turn on your public comments. It's odd you respond to some perceived slight about ! in poetry with a thesis and a grand poem but won't comment on the poetry of your peers. Favoriting all your own stuff also bums me out, I don't even think Safe does that.


Edit: I was wrong, she does.

If comments are off, how can you tell if he's favoriting his own?
I like to be able to coment, even if I often don't.
I also like it when people provide some information about themselves, beyond 'over 18'.
For pure review of the poem that's not needed, but sometimes it helps to know where someone's coming from.

 

[JamesCiriaco]

Wow. I respectfully take issue with a comment, and someone comes by and votes a '1' on my poem. Classy!

I don't want to have to say 'I believe' or 'In my Opinion' every time I write something, but my belief is the reason your poem doesn't come across as well as Corinna's is because love itself is a submissive act. Dominant poems are almost always from the solipsistic pov, they still need to have that bit of personal submission found within every instance of Love. Technically I don't like the phrasing of your poem, but that's something totally different.

Obviously, you're free to like, dislike, or prefer poems for any and every reason, including your own personal conception of love-- dominant or otherwise. When you said that Corinna's was a "far better poem," I thought that you were making an artistic judgement-- that "totally different" thing that would have to do, for example, with your (negative) view of my phrasing.

I was wrong. What you actually meant was, "I like Corinna's poem better, her poem is more appealing to me, because her presentation of love is more sympathetic to the one I privately hold." Which is fine.

 

[Angeline]

Whoa. I don't know what is going on between you and SB, nor do I really care to know. (No offense, I'm just not a fan of drama.) But, I do feel the need to point out that I cannot even count the many times that SB has given me feedback, comments, and compliments on my poetry. (Just look at my sig.) And, I do believe there were many times that she asked for feedback and advice when working on poems. Someone who is egotistical doesn't do that. Someone who doesn't care about poetry doesn't do that.

I've got to agree with you on this. Safe_Bet has come to me many times, privately, to give me feedback or ask for it. I respect that especially: I think it's a sign of admirable modesty when someone doesn't need a big public fuss over their writing. I know she is a woman with strong opinions and she's never afraid to express them, but I have found her to be sincere and modest in working to become a better poet.

And yknow I don't have myself chosen as one of my favorites, but obviously I prefer my own poems to anyone else's. Who here doesn't feel that way about their poetry?

 

[EroticOrogeny]

Wow. I respectfully take issue with a comment, and someone comes by and votes a '1' on my poem. Classy!

But not the same person (unless as an alt). bflagsst gave you a 4, along with a comment. It looks like someone else gave it a 1, with no reason cited. Perhaps someone wanting a pornish one.
Someone gave one of mine a 1 (maybe it sucked, I don't know) with no remarks.

Obviously, you're free to like, dislike, or prefer poems for any and every reason, including your own personal conception of love-- dominant or otherwise. When you said that Corinna's was a "far better poem," I thought that you were making an artistic judgement-- that "totally different" thing that would have to do, for example, with your (negative) view of my phrasing.

I was wrong. What you actually meant was, "I like Corinna's poem better, her poem is more appealing to me, because her presentation of love is more sympathetic to the one I privately hold." Which is fine.

One of today's posts was more of a (porn) narrative, a reader gave it a 5.
Some of mine were like that (pornish -and I may regress from time to time), with only a lot of alliteration and some sexual similes.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I've got to agree with you on this. Safe_Bet has come to me many times, privately, to give me feedback or ask for it. I respect that especially: I think it's a sign of admirable modesty when someone doesn't need a big public fuss over their writing. I know she is a woman with strong opinions and she's never afraid to express them, but I have found her to be sincere and modest in working to become a better poet.

And yknow I don't have myself chosen as one of my favorites, but obviously I prefer my own poems to anyone else's. Who here doesn't feel that way about their poetry?

Not all of them I read quite a few and think damn why didn't I think of that also a lot of mine look so well solid and lumpy compared with other peoples flowing language.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

But not the same person (unless as an alt). bflagsst gave you a 4, along with a comment. It looks like someone else gave it a 1, with no reason cited. Perhaps someone wanting a pornish one.
Someone gave one of mine a 1 (maybe it sucked, I don't know) with no remarks.

Yeah, it happens. Lately, I've been getting at least one one-bomb or another very low vote on my poems. It sucks since I typically only get less than half a dozen votes total. So, I doubt the 1 vote had anything to do with the problem you had with the comment.

ETA:
If it was a 1, it will probably end up erased by the next sweeps anyway. Did we just have a sweeps? One of my recent poems has 1 vote now. I thought it had one or two more votes, but I could be wrong.

 

[Cal Y. Pygia]

It’s very sad that, in a country founded upon dissent and for which millions of people have died in defense of free speech and other individual liberties, one should regard other people’s opinions and disagreements as mere “sensitivities” and “hostilities.”

 

[Angeline]

Not all of them I read quite a few and think damn why didn't I think of that also a lot of mine look so well solid and lumpy compared with other peoples flowing language.

Not all of mine either, but overall I like me and mine best. I consider that a sign of my overall mental health.

 

[JamesCiriaco]

Yeah, it happens. Lately, I've been getting at least one one-bomb or another very low vote on my poems. It sucks since I typically only get less than half a dozen votes total. So, I doubt the 1 vote had anything to do with the problem you had with the comment.

My one vote came in just after I'd posted here about the comment, so I found the timing suspicious. It could just have been a coincidence, I suppose.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Not all of mine either, but overall I like me and mine best. I consider that a sign of my overall mental health.

Lol I luvs you and your state of health to bits

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

Who here doesn't feel that way about their poetry?

Not all of mine either, but overall I like me and mine best. I consider that a sign of my overall mental health.

Well, I don't, but I have related mental health issues.

 

[bflagsst]

"Wow. I respectfully take issue with a comment, and someone comes by and votes a '1' on my poem. Classy!..."

If I was gonna give you a one after I gave you a FOUR I would of still signed my name. People who complain about the criticism and voting don't last long on this site, which is a shame cuz many people here just like me (eve, annaswirls, angeline, UYS, Tristesse, Tzara) write gold standard poems that you can learn from. Believe me, no one here is defending me by going and putting a oneser on your poem.

I don't get why you can't accept my brief criticism, artistically, aesthetically, all those other words. I think your poem isn't great and I gave you reasons. I didn't just say "Your poem is okay." or "Your poem is sub/dom fantasy rubbish..." I'm surprised you haven't emailed me saying "Alright, that's just your opinion." like Darkmaas used to do every time I criticized some nonsense he wrote. I'm gonna say it again, I've the right to say whatever I want in terms of criticism because I read every rubbish poem posted each day.

Your second statement: "What you actually meant was, "I like Corinna's poem better, her poem is more appealing to me, because her presentation of love is more sympathetic to the one I privately hold." Which is fine."

That's not what I said, I made an objective statement about what's necessary for every single presentation of love in poetry.

Addition: Another thing James, I said Corinna's poem was on point, everything you write can't be gold, not even all my stuff(most of it is though.)

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

It’s very sad that, in a country founded upon dissent and for which millions of people have died in defense of free speech and other individual liberties, one should regard other people’s opinions and disagreements as mere “sensitivities” and “hostilities.”

I believe your comment just proved my point.
Or am I not allowed to have my opinion? If I'm not allowed to have any opinions, why I am reviewing at all?

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

You would think that all poets would be accepting and even encouraging freedom of expression.

This is not directed at anyone in particular.. just an observation.

 

[JamesCiriaco]

If I was gonna give you a one after I gave you a FOUR I would of still signed my name. People who complain about the criticism and voting don't last long on this site, which is a shame cuz many people here just like me (eve, annaswirls, angeline, UYS, Tristesse, Tzara) write gold standard poems that you can learn from. Believe me, no one here is defending me by going and putting a oneser on your poem.

Well, it's good to know who the "gold standard" poets are. Thanks for that. When I wrote about my impression that this forum had circled the wagons, this is sort of what I was talking about.

I don't get why you can't accept my brief criticism, artistically, aesthetically, all those other words. I think your poem isn't great and I gave you reasons. I didn't just say "Your poem is okay." or "Your poem is sub/dom fantasy rubbish..." I'm surprised you haven't emailed me saying "Alright, that's just your opinion." like Darkmaas used to do every time I criticized some nonsense he wrote. I'm gonna say it again, I've the right to say whatever I want in terms of criticism because I read every rubbish poem posted each day. Hardly anyone reads my poems, and my poems are WB Yeats before the war quality.

I have accepted your criticism. I was just trying to figure out what your criticism is. Near as I can figure, you don't like my poem because it isn't "sweet and loving" by your standard of love, and that's great. You can't understand the difference between a critique on the basis of taste and a critique on technical grounds? Both are fine, but clearly they're different things. I would not call a poem "better" or worse because it didn't suit my taste, so your use of that term threw me. I don't particularly like poems with butterflies, but I don't deny that good butterfly poems exist. Lots of people don't like incest stories, but presumably there are incest stories that are well-written and achieve their aims.

As I said in my last post, you're free to say whatever you want. And I'm free to talk about it if I want.

(Yeats? Really? At least you've got the poetic ego down.)

 

[bflagsst]

Give me a minute, James. I'm still editing my first statement you've already replied to. I stick by my Yeats.

James, I've probably read all four or so poems you've posted, have you read any of mine? Read the first poem on my list and accept my ego. No, I've read more than that cuz I've read the corinna poems too. So I've probably read 10-12 of yours, and maybe you've read one or two of mine. So I've an idea of you as a poet and you're responding to me not knowing anything about me. In case you're curious, here's a gold standard poem:

I bear on my body the marks of...
by bflagsst©


Your breasts overwhelm my palms,
but not for their breadth,
it's your nipples that remind me of crucifixion,
and the suffering felt by stigmatics,
who've yet to leave their mark

The wounds are fresh on me
and days after,
with the perfumed odor you've left,
and religious orders I've formed
around you and your scent

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Well, I don't, but I have related mental health issues.

Well you should ........ bump your ego gal !

 

[Angeline]

Lol I luvs you and your state of health to bits

I love you, too. You have been berry, berry good for this forum as have LadyStF, Evie, Emp, Bflag, Tzara et his altees, Anna, Safe_Bet and many others. Better than I have for a long time, imo. And my state of mental health (note this LadyStF!) is generally good only in relation to my writing. When I start spinning myself out about this or that, I think "well, I know I can write."

But I do wish people wouldn't get so hung up about voting here. Angsting and arguing about votes wastes more time here (for the individuals who get sucked into its whirlpool) than anything else. Votes don't matter. Comments matter, and even then geez all they do is express an opinion, one freaking opinion. If one learns something from them, great. If not, well that's ok, too.

<gets off soapbox and wanders out of forum in search of caffeine...late night last night>

 

[CorinnaParr]

Um. I've bowed out of the discussion on the various comments and votes being made, but... you think Jay and I are the same person?

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Actually I don't really notice what 'number' have gone up beside my poems which shows how much I care lol comments are usually good to get though I've had some I prefer to forget but I probably deserved them and endeavour to learn from them. Yes I've thrown a wobbly now and then (I'm a woman ffs I'm allowed!) but I don't go on and on ad infinitum if you don't like it fine there's loads I don't even understand let alone know whether I like them or not. Get over it.