"To keep the review thread clean..."

[twelveoone]

Anon

to anon
Here is a riddle, what three things do I have (actually more, but we'll keep it simple) that you don't?
A brain
and balls
Comment by yours truly on one of my own,

BUT, a great thank you to
Tristesse2, WillowedCabin and simply__me

on Joke

and anon, you walked into that one, did you notice the last two lines sort of echo?

ho,ho,ho

yeh, I know I fucked up on some of the punctuation, eyes, you know.

 

[live4passion]

stick to poetry Or...

stalk
"harass or persecute (someone) with unwanted and obsessive attention"



Over the past few months, a certain individual has been utilizing the poetry comment section as a personal forum to wage a campaign of harassment. Comments consisting of taunts, character attack, colored by aggressive tones and shaded at times even with veiled threats as ridiculous as they might seem. Erratic at times, while at others systematically and repeatedly targeting certain individuals.

But most notably,

Comments having nothing remotely to do with feedback, or the content of poetry being posted.

I've seen enough of this individuals personal agenda now, graffitied all over others poetry, and I am seriously overweighing bringing this matter to the attention of Lit. I have silently watched this unfold over the past few months and there is a wide trail of these aggressive, cynical, abusive, "terrorizing" off topic comments scattered all over the poetry section, and a pattern, that will not be difficult to discern.

A Constructive pattern? Positive contribution? Lit can be the judge if it comes to that.

I have spoken with those of whom have been subject to this particular "off topic" attention and the feeling imparted is one of being followed. Decidedly, deeply unpleasant. Unwarranted, unwanted. Any reply to the individual in question simply spurs the behavior.



A stalker?

"unwanted and obsessive attention"



With regards to constructive criticism I would like to praise a new member who I believe is setting an extraordinary example.

Ruthlessly unforgiving and unflinching, well and clearly motivated in detail, surprisingly and pleasantly unpretentious. It can be done. I admire the measured thoughtfullness and quality behind their comments/critique. WillowedCabin


Lets stick to poetry in the poetry comments.
live4passion

 

[twelveoone]

stalk
"harass or persecute (someone) with unwanted and obsessive attention"



Over the past few months, a certain individual has been utilizing the poetry comment section as a personal forum to wage a campaign of harassment. Comments consisting of taunts, character attack, colored by aggressive tones and shaded at times even with veiled threats as ridiculous as they might seem. Erratic at times, while at others systematically and repeatedly targeting certain individuals.

But most notably,

Comments having nothing remotely to do with feedback, or the content of poetry being posted.

I've seen enough of this individuals personal agenda now, graffitied all over others poetry, and I am seriously overweighing bringing this matter to the attention of Lit. I have silently watched this unfold over the past few months and there is a wide trail of these aggressive, cynical, abusive, "terrorizing" off topic comments scattered all over the poetry section, and a pattern, that will not be difficult to discern.

A Constructive pattern? Positive contribution? Lit can be the judge if it comes to that.

I have spoken with those of whom have been subject to this particular "off topic" attention and the feeling imparted is one of being followed. Decidedly, deeply unpleasant. Unwarranted, unwanted. Any reply to the individual in question simply spurs the behavior.



A stalker?

"unwanted and obsessive attention"



With regards to constructive criticism I would like to praise a new member who I believe is setting an extraordinary example.

Ruthlessly unforgiving and unflinching, well and clearly motivated in detail, surprisingly and pleasantly unpretentious. It can be done. I admire the measured thoughtfullness and quality behind their comments/critique. WillowedCabin


Lets stick to poetry in the poetry comments.
live4passion

1. do so, you have a problem voice it.


2. WillowedCabin and Simply_me are both to be commended. And bulltir. And you know as well as anyone else that without comments it dies, doesn't it?

3. My guess is both WillowedCabin and Simply_me will be amply rewarded with an anon low score/and or dumb comments. I know I have lost my H's and been visited, have you?

4. What have you done lately? Seriously, ever consider the percent of comments to submissions? In most places the 3 to 1 rule is vigorously enforced. At most I may have had 70 poems here, I have over 1,600 comments.

 

[twelveoone]

Je-zus

I just read your comment on Joke, lorencino. Thank you, too much. The poet does not take himself too seriously. Brilliant? May be more of a reflection of you. We are what we see.

I was glad I could shovel the shit in eleven lines. (numeric significance)
Thank you.
I am indebted.

 

[butters]

stalk
"harass or persecute (someone) with unwanted and obsessive attention"



Over the past few months, a certain individual has been utilizing the poetry comment section as a personal forum to wage a campaign of harassment. Comments consisting of taunts, character attack, colored by aggressive tones and shaded at times even with veiled threats as ridiculous as they might seem. Erratic at times, while at others systematically and repeatedly targeting certain individuals.

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=37577666&postcount=6125

i would also add that his input manages to create a stir in a forum taking a doze, and whilst PoetGuy's thread boosted the comment section for a while there is room on this forum for a different, honest, if frequently acerbic approach.

i also wonder why you have chosen not to speak out over the stalking of many of us by the anon who slates a write and leaves 1's all over the place on poems that deserve way higher scores.

i also wonder why you have chosen not to speak out about the trollish comments posted often enough by the likes of baby cici, for example...

But most notably,

Comments having nothing remotely to do with feedback, or the content of poetry being posted.

i would argue that point: almost ALL of twelveone's posts - come, let's not be mealy-mouthed and beat around the bush - are either feedback or posts designed to wake this place up and create more feedback for hungry poets. you might not care for his approach; i can understand that. you don't HAVE to like his approach. if it yields results in the way of boosted comments, then it's good for lit. controversy isn't always a bad thing, and i often don't agree with his viewpoint or interpretation of writes. but he DOES contribute, and regularly, and to the detriment of his own scores where he attracts the bogus voters. in fact, his contributions by way of comments AND quite educational, in-depth posts that can help develop some of our tools as writers, far outweigh what most of us contribute to this forum.

IF you feel his approach sits poorly, then by all means say so, but don't sit back on your own laurels... change the dynamic of the postings by using your own voice to provide what writers here will always hunger for: feedback. and interesting, thought-provoking posts that will help us grow.

I've seen enough of this individuals personal agenda now, graffitied all over others poetry, and I am seriously overweighing bringing this matter to the attention of Lit. I have silently watched this unfold over the past few months and there is a wide trail of these aggressive, cynical, abusive, "terrorizing" off topic comments scattered all over the poetry section, and a pattern, that will not be difficult to discern.

A Constructive pattern? Positive contribution? Lit can be the judge if it comes to that.

what, if i may ask, do you presume this poster's 'personal agenda' to be?
i hope you have taken note of the very obvious 'trail' of anonymous 1-votes, pointless/ugly/mal-intentioned comments left on our writes.

personally, i don't think twelve's reacting as he does always serves the purpose he might wish it to (and there always is a purpose), but anyone who reads the majority of his posts will know that what he brings to the table heavily outweighs some poor (on occasion) table manners. Lit does and will judge. i only offer my own opinion, and there IS always a method in his ... manner. if nothing else it creates debate; it opens the windows and kick-starts a sluggish forum. honesty, yours and his, is more valuable than gold. i wonder if you took the time to read his most educational long posts? lit judges, and so does he, and you, and i .... his record on leaving comments is nothing to be sniffed at. how does yours stand up to it? i fall way behind, but have given a lot of time to reading/thinking, and leaving comments. lord only knows how much he's invested in this site. no, that is not a free-pass to behaviour detrimental to the functioning of this poetry section, but it certainly makes me sit up and listen to what the hell he has to say - then reach my own conclusions.

I have spoken with those of whom have been subject to this particular "off topic" attention and the feeling imparted is one of being followed. Decidedly, deeply unpleasant. Unwarranted, unwanted. Any reply to the individual in question simply spurs the behavior.

i do not profess to know the true identities of those twelve believes to be the anons, the clusters, the groupies. i have my own suspicions, and feel that what began (during my tenure here) as some kind of territorial/testosterone-fueled thing has escalated, with few participants being 100% blameless. for those who have "confided" in you, i wonder why they chose not to approach either myself, Pandora, or Lauren in our capacities as moderators. i hold my own opinions, but the other current mods (as i am no longer) were easy enough to approach with 'issues' these anonymous people might have wished to raise. and have you given any thought to how unpleasant, unwarranted, and unwanted were the 'attacks' on twelve's own work or his comments addressing others' writings?

A stalker?

"unwanted and obsessive attention"

it might have been nice if you'd taken the time to point that out to the one or more who targeted me personally. oh, and the same one who let vile comments all over the forum targeting UnderYourSpell as well as other women. *crickets*


With regards to constructive criticism I would like to praise a new member who I believe is setting an extraordinary example.

Ruthlessly unforgiving and unflinching, well and clearly motivated in detail, surprisingly and pleasantly unpretentious. It can be done. I admire the measured thoughtfullness and quality behind their comments/critique. WillowedCabin


Lets stick to poetry in the poetry comments.
live4passion

there's everything to be admired in clear, concise, considered feedback. there are very few here who never flirt with being pretentious, and the 'fresh' voice of a newcomer contributing to the forum in this manner is something to be highly valued.

the point, though, is this (imo): just as there is room for all manner of poetry (and the debate rumbles on even to this hour as to what constitutes 'real' poetry ) here at Lit, there is also room for all types of opinion, and the ways these opinions are voiced.

value honesty.
twelve may not always be right. he may not always be palatable. what he is, though, is unflinching in his honesty, take it or leave it. and actions speak louder than words. his words tend to stir others to action, though to some more timid or new to the site might find themselves a little overwhelmed. YOU can ameliorate this effect by posting as frequently, and from your own perspective. am i to take it, now, that we'll see a sudden upswing in your own positive contributions to the forum?

good-oh.

 

[lorencino]

Struggling out from under my dementia

It has taken me close to 36 hours to realize that live4passion is complaining about twelveoone in his stalk post, and even then the realization came solely because of chipbutty's response to the controversy.

live4passion appears to be an honest man, sincere and pure of heart.
twelveoone appears to be a sincere man, honest and pure of heart.

live4passion is a poet, a good poet, a poet
to arrest the attention of the hungry,
wandering mind filled with wonder. twelveoone,
too,
will ussuage, through his poems,
the ache for meaning that assails
the travelling mind ranging greedily
through the cosmic uncertainty that
defines us.

Yet live4passion appears to peer through
a distorting kaleidoscope that hangs between
these two poets to create a dispute that needs
propel but need not be.

Humbly, I implore humility from both, accepting
that both mean well and that each to the other
assigns good intention and releases emotions
of antagonism.

I'm pained by this strife in two that I respect
for I can side against neither.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

My sincere thanks to simply_me, ishtat, lorencino, twelve-o and greenmountaineer for their thoughtful and eucational comments on "On "Two Nudes"". I stand corrected on the true title of SS's painting.

 

[twelveoone]

It has taken me close to 36 hours to realize that live4passion is complaining about twelveoone in his stalk post, and even then the realization came solely because of chipbutty's response to the controversy.

Hold on, live4passion did not directly accuse me of anything. We may be talking about the same anon. If l4p either has received or thinks something came from me post it.
If he is talking about the anon there really is nothing we can do about it, except insult the hell out of him (at your service).

I complained once before about the anon mimicry. As far as l4p and I, maybe three or four comments between us. None raves on either side, I certainly don't think of him as a serial dumper. Or a cluster fucker, in cases like those I have left non poetry comments.

But then, an issue was made over a pun I left, to make the pun work I have to read the damn thing.

Or if he is referring to comments that I have made, post it, I will give a full explanation. The parties involved might not like to hear it.

Either way let's get to the bottom of this.

But again I point out, I lost my H's, because I do go after the game playing fools, and I have left over 1,600 comments better than 90% with scores of 5. I will tell you if I didn't vote (I don't know how the system handles it).

But if you want the system to work, get involved live4passion, not seen you about much.

 

[lorencino]

Dementia confirmed

I was under the impression that I didn't know what was going on until chipbutty's post suggested an interpretation. Seems I still don't have a clear idea of what is going on.

 

[simply__me]

Oh shit

lorencino

What you wrote about Symphony humbles me. It is something that happened in the not so distant past.

NeonSublety, twelveone, ishtat, WillowCabin, and Desejo,

You all have challenged me, suggested improvements, and provided much for my consideration. Each combination of words must have purpose, and I have not always done that in searching for effects of sound. It's so damn hard, but I revel in the challenge.

 

[butters]

if i have misinterpreted live4passion's post as referring to twelve, then i offer unreserved apologies. possibly i have jumped to an erroneous conclusion, though from where i sit now it still doesn't look that way to me.

having said that, i stand by my other comments.




it's my day off tomorrow, so hope to be able to get into reading and commenting - a literary smorgasbord i am anticipating with delight.

 

[twelveoone]

if i have misinterpreted live4passion's post as referring to twelve, then i offer unreserved apologies. possibly i have jumped to an erroneous conclusion, though from where i sit now it still doesn't look that way to me.

having said that, i stand by my other comments.




it's my day off tomorrow, so hope to be able to get into reading and commenting - a literary smorgasbord i am anticipating with delight.

I am open to that possibility, that he was referring...
I am also open to the possibility that I could be wrong.
But I am also open to other possibilities also.

 

[ishtat]

But again I point out, I lost my H's, because I do go after the game playing fools,

1201, it can work the other way too. A few years back I had a gushing fan who took great delight in telling me that she had voted at home at work at her sisters,from a hotel etc etc. The result was I got a bunch of H's I shouldn't have, in fact some of them are downright embarrassing.

Thankfully, I lost said fan when I went to live in Europe for a couple of years, and only came here rarely. But if anyone is feeling aggrieved and wants to one bomb something they can have a crack at mine, I shan't mind.

Tho' if you want to make it stick I suspect scoring a 2 works better because they might be less likely to get swept.

 

[twelveoone]

1201, it can work the other way too. A few years back I had a gushing fan who took great delight in telling me that she had voted at home at work at her sisters,from a hotel etc etc. The result was I got a bunch of H's I shouldn't have, in fact some of them are downright embarrassing.

Thankfully, I lost said fan when I went to live in Europe for a couple of years, and only came here rarely. But if anyone is feeling aggrieved and wants to one bomb something they can have a crack at mine, I shan't mind.

Tho' if you want to make it stick I suspect scoring a 2 works better because they might be less likely to get swept.

I know that. MNS discovered the pattern. Do you want to take a guess as to who else "benefited"?
Do you think it was an isolated case? A "clique" is bad enough, supplementing the clique, well....most of the time, they don't even bother with the "comments".
I admire your honesty.

Which is one reason, I think anonymous voting should be subject to a weighing factor.

And bring the goddamn thermometer back.

 

[butters]

I am open to that possibility, that he was referring...
I am also open to the possibility that I could be wrong.
But I am also open to other possibilities also.

"Despite this, Morel refused to declare an end to the campaign until 1912 because he wanted to see actual changes in the situation..."

tenacious bastard, wasn't he?

i went rabbit-holing down other links, some of which were fascinating.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

Perhaps live4passion can put any speculation to rest. Just a small oddity, I too lost any recently awarded H's inspite of my comparatively low profile.

*boggle*

 

[twelveoone]

Perhaps live4passion can put any speculation to rest. Just a small oddity, I too lost any recently awarded H's inspite of my comparatively low profile.

*boggle*

I just saw an H on a commented, recommended poem; let's see what happens.

 

[twelveoone]

stalk
"harass or persecute (someone) with unwanted and obsessive attention"



Over the past few months, a certain individual has been utilizing the poetry comment section as a personal forum to wage a campaign of harassment. Comments consisting of taunts, character attack, colored by aggressive tones and shaded at times even with veiled threats as ridiculous as they might seem. Erratic at times, while at others systematically and repeatedly targeting certain individuals.

But most notably,

Comments having nothing remotely to do with feedback, or the content of poetry being posted.

I've seen enough of this individuals personal agenda now, graffitied all over others poetry, and I am seriously overweighing bringing this matter to the attention of Lit. I have silently watched this unfold over the past few months and there is a wide trail of these aggressive, cynical, abusive, "terrorizing" off topic comments scattered all over the poetry section, and a pattern, that will not be difficult to discern.

A Constructive pattern? Positive contribution? Lit can be the judge if it comes to that.

I have spoken with those of whom have been subject to this particular "off topic" attention and the feeling imparted is one of being followed. Decidedly, deeply unpleasant. Unwarranted, unwanted. Any reply to the individual in question simply spurs the behavior.



A stalker?

"unwanted and obsessive attention"



With regards to constructive criticism I would like to praise a new member who I believe is setting an extraordinary example.

Ruthlessly unforgiving and unflinching, well and clearly motivated in detail, surprisingly and pleasantly unpretentious. It can be done. I admire the measured thoughtfullness and quality behind their comments/critique. WillowedCabin


Lets stick to poetry in the poetry comments.
live4passion

Seriously, what's your beef

Except, for your later submissions, you look untouched. I spot checked, didn't see any of "these comments"

Now this "group", how did you become the spokesperson? Are you an alt, for another name that has received?

And again what are you doing to remedy the problem? Commenting on good poems, sticking your ass on the line, on your own?

bull·shit
1. Foolish, deceitful, or boastful language.
2. Something worthless, deceptive, or insincere.
3. Insolent talk or behavior.

Now what is your agenda?

Here is mine.
1. Operate on your own. Think and speak for yourself.
2. Get involved
3. Leave comments if you submit poetry, with a name.
4. Don't fuck with the numbers, and/or bring a fan club, that is only going to boast up your score.

Now specifically, I am not accusing you of number 4, regarding 3 I don't know nor care what your ratio of comments to submissions are, you are not what I consider a serial dumper. Number 2, you've done. But number 1, that bothers me. Does this "group" collectively decide who is good? Who is bad? Is this "group" a collection of alts? How does this "group" meet?

Here is an "message" for your "group".
FUCK Groupthink, Groupspeak.:

Take that to the hive mind.

And specifically, I am not solely addressing "your group", but any and all "groups" that feel they HAVE to operate as groups.

Other than that, have a nice day.


I would just like to mention, in case you don't know live4passion, I have been targeted, probably by more than one, called names on the threads.

So what do I do?

I fucking laugh

and the anon walked into it.

 

[lorencino]

A certain individual

I love the phrase
(deeply voiced, pregnant with potential) “A certain individual . . . ”
a slight pause
before the ellipsed punch or praise
almost ignored as . . . (flippant pause)
“A certain individual” boomerangs about
in my emptied mind.

“A certain smile
that comes to haunt . . .”*

* Johnny Mathis, 1958

 

[Kaishaku]

Thank you 1201 for your mention of my not a haiku

Yes the poem was something more than it seems. It actually came from my story: Duty - Bound. In the zenlike words of George,

"I am only doing what I am supposed to do, but it just doesn't do any good. Every time I beat some haiku sensibilities into someone, three more show up who haven't got the first fucking clue."

So sadly true George, so sadly true. The anthem of a true haiku hero.

thank you twelve oh one
insightful words on my poem
you are a wise one

another for my "not a haiku" collection.

K.

 

[twelveoone]

Yes the poem was something more than it seems. It actually came from my story: Duty - Bound. In the zenlike words of George,

"I am only doing what I am supposed to do, but it just doesn't do any good. Every time I beat some haiku sensibilities into someone, three more show up who haven't got the first fucking clue."

So sadly true George, so sadly true. The anthem of a true haiku hero.

thank you twelve oh one
insightful words on my poem
you are a wise one

another for my "not a haiku" collection.

K.

Whoops, I just started a thread

 

[bogusagain]

Thanks for your comments twelveoone, istat, simply_me.

@ istat I suspect as an expat, like me you look at England with more a critical eye, though of course personal experience colours that too, My daughter can't understand my criticisms because I don't live there but I keep telling her, that's the point, if I lived there I would be blind to many things that make me angry. (Her eyes then roll in defeat).

@twelveoone I see the influence of the beats in this poem who where my staple literary diet around the time. Of course, the subject matter is purely English.

 

[twelveoone]

Thanks for your comments twelveoone, istat, simply_me.

@ istat I suspect as an expat, like me you look at England with more a critical eye, though of course personal experience colours that too, My daughter can't understand my criticisms because I don't live there but I keep telling her, that's the point, if I lived there I would be blind to many things that make me angry. (Her eyes then roll in defeat).

@twelveoone I see the influence of the beats in this poem who where my staple literary diet around the time. Of course, the subject matter is purely English.

yeah, did you delete my crappy comment? a high point in literary analysis (Fuck it - I'm a fan)
but, I did throw in links in the recommend. BTW I gave you a 5 (if I remembered to push the star)

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Thanks for your comments twelveoone, istat, simply_me.

@ istat I suspect as an expat, like me you look at England with more a critical eye, though of course personal experience colours that too, My daughter can't understand my criticisms because I don't live there but I keep telling her, that's the point, if I lived there I would be blind to many things that make me angry. (Her eyes then roll in defeat).

@twelveoone I see the influence of the beats in this poem who where my staple literary diet around the time. Of course, the subject matter is purely English.

Not 'a worthless lump of rock' to us that love her and chose to stay living on her

 

[butters]

thanks, annie and twelvio, for your thoughts on 'let there be light' much appreciated.

annie, what major event happened ten years ago? to the year, not the date i wrote it? this came about from someone over on the gb (who'd been caught up in the major events) mentioning something... got me wondering. the incase - yes, you know you're right, but i was running them together going for a sense of compression, tightness, fear.

i will think about what you've said, twelve. i had hoped to convey something of the state of mind, near panic, that won't permit extended thoughts... i suppose i hoped it would sound like breath catching.

good of you both to stop in on me little poem and take the time to let me know what it made you think.