"To keep the review thread clean..."

[UnderYourSpell]

I check the ratings on stories, mostly, but in this case I knew my vote would give your poem an 'H', and since I actually anticipated the next vote would be a low one, I checked back in a day or two, out of curiosity, to see if I was right. I was a little surprised it was a two, and not a one, to be honest.

Whatever next? An anon with integrity!

 

[twelveoone]

No hard feelings, I hope.

To you?, not on my part.
I stated my position, you stated yours.
A few months back, I posted a thread that I thought H's were a healthy sign. I was talking about the others that had received them, I hadn't received any new ones, so I was talking about others receiving them. Well someone didn't like that.
Someone doesn't like the fact I point out that clusterfucking fan clubs are wrong.
Someone doesn't like the fact that maybe they can't they or their idol isn't as good as they think they are. AND WE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT IT.
Everyone here with a pretense of honesty suffers.

So I am going after these someones.

And of course there are the 1,000 (read more like 5) someones that just don't like me, including two that called a jihad and then blew themselves up or maybe they just blew themselves up and then got deflated.

So you and theo and the wonderful anon that left a comment on greenmountaineer are wearing the wrong uniform at the moment.

There are games and then there are other games. I like games. You, I wouldn't worry.

Well Theo, I guess you noticed that the H's I received previously have all disappeared. Enigmatic isn't it? But then I am also.

since no one is paying attention, I'll show you a little trick

the word is assplug, through the transitive powers of the
Krazy
Kenneth
Koch
Poetry machine, I knew the anon would read it as "asp luge" thereby invoking a hideous hilarious death. I just read the autopsy report, death by laughing asp and it confirmed my suspicions that the anon had a limited cranial capacity.

one down.

20 &
2029.

 

[theognis]

To you?, not on my part.
I stated my position, you stated yours.
A few months back, I posted a thread that I thought H's were a healthy sign. I was talking about the others that had received them, I hadn't received any new ones, so I was talking about others receiving them. Well someone didn't like that.
Someone doesn't like the fact I point out that clusterfucking fan clubs are wrong.
Someone doesn't like the fact that maybe they can't they or their idol isn't as good as they think they are. AND WE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT IT.
Everyone here with a pretense of honesty suffers.

So I am going after these someones.

And of course there are the 1,000 (read more like 5) someones that just don't like me, including two that called a jihad and then blew themselves up or maybe they just blew themselves up and then got deflated.

So you and theo and the wonderful anon that left a comment on greenmountaineer are wearing the wrong uniform at the moment.

There are games and then there are other games. I like games. You, I wouldn't worry.

Well Theo, I guess you noticed that the H's I received previously have all disappeared. Enigmatic isn't it? But then I am also.

since no one is paying attention, I'll show you a little trick

the word is assplug, through the transitive powers of the
Krazy
Kenneth
Koch
Poetry machine, I knew the anon would read it as "asp luge" thereby invoking a hideous hilarious death. I just read the autopsy report, death by laughing asp and it confirmed my suspicions that the anon had a limited cranial capacity.

one down.

20 &
2029.

Yes, twelve, I noticed the campaign against your 'H' awards. I saw the same thing happen to myself months ago, and I've seen it has happened to others, as well. It's unfortunate there are so few votes for poetry. That means it's very easy to knock a rating down with a single vote, unlike with stories, which usually have hundreds of votes and can absorb one or two bombs without a lot of damage to the rating.

I took the poetry ratings and the 'H's seriously back in January and February, but no more. I now think the comments, whether anonymous or not, are what really matter.

 

[twelveoone]

Yes, twelve, I noticed the campaign against your 'H' awards. I saw the same thing happen to myself months ago, and I've seen it has happened to others, as well. It's unfortunate there are so few votes for poetry. That means it's very easy to knock a rating down with a single vote, unlike with stories, which usually have hundreds of votes and can absorb one or two bombs without a lot of damage to the rating.

I took the poetry ratings and the 'H's seriously back in January and February, but no more. I now think the comments, whether anonymous or not, are what really matter.

theo, I specifically stated I noticed the de-Hing was happening to others, before they got to me.

Believe what you want, do what you want.

apparently the cliche of the month is "glass houses", so I'll go with that.
If you look into a glass house, you do not see an anon, thus anon either doesn't exist or is a gas. Fart probably.

If anon doesn't exist, I feel free to unravel my latest slogan, which is:
Kill
All
Anons

which if you take the first words spell Kaa
who was a snake
which leads us into
asp luge
which is a poisonous chute
which makes me laugh my ass off
because of the logic of it all

I at any moment can become an anon, but can anon become me? Anon cannot even become himself.
My comment at the end of the ass luge said it all.

 

[twelveoone]

Its like a shadow asking its own shadow to hide... {Now thats a theme for a poem, I guess!}

psst, you're pretty good, don't let the anon know.

If I was doing npr, which I'm not...

 

[UnderYourSpell]

What you have to understand here is that Anon has become synonimous with utter dislike and jokes, if that's the camp you want to be associated with be my guest but now you know don't expect a sympathetic response

 

[twelveoone]

good lord. what a ton of tripe there, with the odd gem sparkling away amidst the crud.

seems the way to get a top-read listing is to have a pornish title

lauren, jstherra, and one or two others don't rely on that.

nothing wrong with a dirty poem so long as it's a good dirty poem. sigh.

Actually lauren did at one time. 'till total inanity took over.

lauren, jstherra are bad examples, they have brains, zombies like to eat brains.

anon is a zombie.

 

[theognis]

What you have to understand here is that Anon has become synonimous with utter dislike and jokes, if that's the camp you want to be associated with be my guest but now you know don't expect a sympathetic response

Actually, I don't want to be associated with any camp. I understand the resentment felt toward people who are using anonymity to make negative comments about others, or their work, from deep cover. I've never done that, and I never will. I think if someone has something negative to say, they should say it openly. I don't see the harm, however, in making an anonymous positive comment, or the need to lump all anons into one group.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Actually, I don't want to be associated with any camp. I understand the resentment felt toward people who are using anonymity to make negative comments about others, or their work, from deep cover. I've never done that, and I never will. I think if someone has something negative to say, they should say it openly. I don't see the harm, however, in making an anonymous positive comment, or the need to lump all anons into one group.

Because the original Anon (who is probably loving all this attention) occassionally made a complimentary comment but we still knew it was him or her ...... the one with the sharp tongue, no manners and at times completely uncalled for downright unkindness. As such it became that all of Anons comments were discounted and they became a figure of fun to be laughed at. That Anon is still creeping round the board and who is to tell which Anon is which (there are no degrees in anonymity)?

 

[twelveoone]

Actually, I don't want to be associated with any camp. I understand the resentment felt toward people who are using anonymity to make negative comments about others, or their work, from deep cover. I've never done that, and I never will. I think if someone has something negative to say, they should say it openly. I don't see the harm, however, in making an anonymous positive comment, or the need to lump all anons into one group.

anon by default is a lump

You are missing the point, with mentioning positive/negative, not mentioning scores, etc., the main one being we are all sentient individuals, or at least pretend to be. As such we should act and expect accordingly. Can the fucking group think and think for yourself.

The second is a semblance of fairness. If someone shows up with either a real or no so real fan club. It would be nice to see who these fans are. To see if they walk around a bit, or whether it clusters. Positive anon voting has a real tendency to devalue real poetry. It steals. Negative anon voting is something used to push down the enemies. Enemy defined as either me, or someone occupying a position on the top list, a contender in a contest, or just someone that wrote "something" sometime that was objected to. I don't have to tell you that steals also

This negative voting to de-H, has been going on for years, it precedes you.
It is time to limit the impact.

As far as their comments on mine, merely amusement for me. Some, particularly women have had real problems with it.

Their are a lot of problems with this place, anon voting and comments are the cause of a disproportionate share. They don't deserve that power, people with names do.
======================================================
Having said all that I'll go watch my scores decline some more. And I'm taking this negative voting as a sign that I may be rubbing some of the "right" targets the wrong way.

um so besser

 

[twelveoone]

Its like a shadow asking its own shadow to hide... {Now thats a theme for a poem, I guess!}

This is what it should be all about

How are the comments? Looked like a good set. Worth reading to me (not my poem)

 

[theognis]

anon by default is a lump

You are missing the point, with mentioning positive/negative, not mentioning scores, etc., the main one being we are all sentient individuals, or at least pretend to be. As such we should act and expect accordingly. Can the fucking group think and think for yourself.

The second is a semblance of fairness. If someone shows up with either a real or no so real fan club. It would be nice to see who these fans are. To see if they walk around a bit, or whether it clusters. Positive anon voting has a real tendency to devalue real poetry. It steals. Negative anon voting is something used to push down the enemies. Enemy defined as either me, or someone occupying a position on the top list, a contender in a contest, or just someone that wrote "something" sometime that was objected to. I don't have to tell you that steals also

This negative voting to de-H, has been going on for years, it precedes you.
It is time to limit the impact.

As far as their comments on mine, merely amusement for me. Some, particularly women have had real problems with it.

Their are a lot of problems with this place, anon voting and comments are the cause of a disproportionate share. They don't deserve that power, people with names do.
======================================================
Having said all that I'll go watch my scores decline some more. And I'm taking this negative voting as a sign that I may be rubbing some of the "right" targets the wrong way.

um so besser

If you will recall, earlier this year, when I first started commenting and voting, I received a lot of criticism for being too positive and voting nothing but fives. At that time 'H's weren't that hard to get. I even got a few myself. Perhaps they were too cheap, but things have certainly changed over the last few months, you must admit.

Your ratings are safe from me, by the way, as they have always been.

 

[twelveoone]

If you will recall, earlier this year, when I first started commenting and voting, I received a lot of criticism for being too positive and voting nothing but fives. At that time 'H's weren't that hard to get. I even got a few myself. Perhaps they were too cheap, but things have certainly changed over the last few months, you must admit.

Your ratings are safe from me, by the way, as they have always been.

I do, we are on pretty much the same page. Mostly I hand out fives, or don't vote. Although I'm also prone to knocking people about.

I will tell you a funny story. When I came back, I did knock some people about, I received an email and a pm, something to the effect that I should, place needed it etc.. Something about the tenor bothered me. I don't expect perfection, people aren't perfect, every body is prone to error. I just want them to think a little more. Perhaps, I betrayed these people's expectations. So I may know one or two of the anons. (that information is sacred, revealed in confidence, it stays that way)

I really don't care if someone posts anonymous patterns. I look for patterns. I see a lot of good patterns, like the comments on serpentwrap's poem, I doubt if those six people would ever agree on any thing else besides the fact it was worth commenting on. That is a very good pattern.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

If you will recall, earlier this year, when I first started commenting and voting, I received a lot of criticism for being too positive and voting nothing but fives. At that time 'H's weren't that hard to get. I even got a few myself. Perhaps they were too cheap, but things have certainly changed over the last few months, you must admit.

Your ratings are safe from me, by the way, as they have always been.

The reason H's were a dime a dozen at that time is because PoetGuy had started a challenge that was partly commenting on poems, so with the furvour of new challenges everyone was voting like billyo. It wasn't a true picture of the usual humdrum day to day voting and like most challenges it fizzled to a near standstill over time, so H's have to be worked harder for now

 

[twelveoone]

The reason H's were a dime a dozen at that time is because PoetGuy had started a challenge that was partly commenting on poems, so with the furvour of new challenges everyone was voting like billyo. It wasn't a true picture of the usual humdrum day to day voting and like most challenges it fizzled to a near standstill over time, so H's have to be worked harder for now

A double hardy sneer, if you mean 30 zombies that can read 5 in a star!!!!

anon listens to the beat of the humdrum, lips move...zzzzzzz

 

[UnderYourSpell]

A double hardy sneer, if you mean 30 zombies that can read 5 in a star!!!!

anon listens to the beat of the humdrum, lips move...zzzzzzz

I wish you wouldn't talk in condundrums and riddles, I have to guess at three quarters of your meanings.You're misunderstood enough as it is without bludgeoning your friends over the head with weird posts!

 

[twelveoone]

I wish you wouldn't talk in condundrums and riddles, I have to guess at three quarters of your meanings.You're misunderstood enough as it is without bludgeoning your friends over the head with weird posts!

Simply put.
The system is corrupt. (all systems are corrupt)
The system is unfair (all systems are unfair)
Who votes? Why? Why not? Do you know how many "members" here have a row of H's of dubious poetry. That could be viewed as merely "unfair". i.e. When an authour or an editor shows up with a preference of "I'm not a poet..." and then proceeds to display it and garners an H. These names and comments and votes may be legit. To point out that is neither fair or poetry often is to suffer retaliation. Anonymous does it, to avoid retaliation. There are more than one of these instances. The retaliation most often is anonymous. This is merely unfair. Because life is full of assholes and life is unfair.

Now, there are also the members with row of H's with one or two comments.
Fan's, relatives, or voting from a different machine? Done as anonymous. Here begins corruption.

The listing of new poems, if it isn't FIFO, here begins corruption.

The generation of alts for either commenting, favoriteing and voting here is corruption.

If I say bfagsst is WBY and probably two others, to have proof of it, I would have to access to information or it is just a hunch on my part. Either one I won't do. In his case he admitted it.

It is likely, that some of the alts are used for other purposes, then a different style, more honest feedback (avoidance of anonymous retaliation), that is corruption.

I have good reason to believe A may be B, who also maybe C, good reason to believe who some of the trolls are, and it is common knowledge that a certain group that acted a certain way is back (but may have amending their ways)and when "Poetguy" was inferring that I was paranoid may have been saying it for duplicitous reasons.

I will not sling names around, make accusations. enough evidence is there.

A large part of the corruption and a certain part of the unfairness would be curtailed if the power of anonymous was reined in.

And bring the thermometer back, let's see the votes.

The other part of the corruption and unfairness would be remedied by the diligence and involvement of the "Poets". Some of it will remain, some of it has become "nested" and some of it has become part of the culture.

It is what you make of it. Self serving bullshit or real involvement.

Look, see, think and act. I point, I'm not leading (do without the leaders).

To the rules based and form assholes, fuck you, explain where they came from and why it works. I treid. i.e. think it through

To the "there are no rules" and thereforth I can write what I want. Fuck you, duh, there are tools, i.e. think it through

To that duo that claims I've only wrote one thing worth remembering, you'll remember me, I thought it through, you didn't.

To the serial dumpers that claim they want feedback, fuck you. give it. think about it.

anon, just fuck you, you're a coward, it should be clear what you are fearful of.
laughter. Keepin it simple, what three things do I have...

I'm done posting annie, this should have made it clear as I can make it.

I'm done. You can go post the poll.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I sincerely hope that 'I'm done' doesn't mean for good. In the past I admit I found you hard to take at times and actually I didn't think you liked me very much either. Then someone PMed me and I stopped right there and started looking at you in a different light. A lot of what you say makes sense, some of it goes wayyyy over my head and leaves me wondering what the hell you are going on about. I don't curry favour or seek out who is the current favourite and the best camp to be in right now, I'm just me. I'm pretty sure more goes on behind the scenes than we ever see, plotting and name calling etc some of it overflows onto the board and has split the place in two before now, it's not nice to witness and we've lost some good poets that are sadly missed. As in all walks of life there are going to be people who rub us up the wrong way, the ones that 'don't play the game' I expect they find it easier to hide behind a monitor screen. The solution? Tricky one. I suppose all anyone can do is carry on bringing your own standards here as anywhere else and think of your blood pressure when other peoples standards slip beneath yours. Oh yes I'm no paragon of virtue either and anyone that keeps purposely getting up my nose can expect a retaliation on ocassion ....... otherwise I keep plodding on with my poetry and anyone that doesn't like it can lump it.

 

[serpentwrap]

Whew! That had me reeling, for sure... Once upon a time, a long, long time ago, I used to be an amateur pugilist. In a bout, when you meet someone better than you, your rival keeps on jabbing punch after punch, relentlessly. All your training, all the footwork, all the defenses, the ducks and the swerves fall by the wayside. You just reel in with the punches, in daze, in awe, in anger and in shame... Thats the effect some posts can have here too.

Today of course my bouting days are far behind. Today I'm just left tut-tutting, that first stanza of Eliot comes to mind:

LET us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;
Let us go, through certain half-deserted streets,
The muttering retreats
Of restless nights in one-night cheap hotels
And sawdust restaurants with oyster-shells:
<b>Streets that follow like a tedious argument
Of insidious intent
To lead you to an overwhelming question …
Oh, do not ask, “What is it?”
Let us go and make our visit.<b>

In the room the women come and go
Talking of Michelangelo.

...

I think the difference here is that I'm not at all a poet. And I know that. Some of you are highly accomplished in the craft. So your reactions, your synapses are much different from those of mine. I don't even understand many poems. My cultural references are different too. (No, I am not a Brit). Like GM's Maggie's one still has me tearing my hair...

Having said that, I respect the heartfelt angst that comes across. I respect the months, years of frustrations that are oh-so-evident in the frenzy above. So I shall refrain from triggering any further outburst. I dont vote because I dont think I'm accomplished enough to that entitlement. Which is why I dont expect any votes either. Criticism is more than I can hope for. Anonymous or specific, it doesn't make a difference to me...

Its like those who understand music, keys, scales etc will react to a music far differently than those who just love a particular music or song without having any understanding of notes etc. I'm the latter kind. I love music, but ask me about notes, scales, etc., and I turn a "fucktard"...

And hey, thanks for all the comments and to all of you...

 

[greenmountaineer]

I sincerely hope that 'I'm done' doesn't mean for good. In the past I admit I found you hard to take at times and actually I didn't think you liked me very much either. Then someone PMed me and I stopped right there and started looking at you in a different light. A lot of what you say makes sense, some of it goes wayyyy over my head and leaves me wondering what the hell you are going on about. I don't curry favour or seek out who is the current favourite and the best camp to be in right now, I'm just me. I'm pretty sure more goes on behind the scenes than we ever see, plotting and name calling etc some of it overflows onto the board and has split the place in two before now, it's not nice to witness and we've lost some good poets that are sadly missed. As in all walks of life there are going to be people who rub us up the wrong way, the ones that 'don't play the game' I expect they find it easier to hide behind a monitor screen. The solution? Tricky one. I suppose all anyone can do is carry on bringing your own standards here as anywhere else and think of your blood pressure when other peoples standards slip beneath yours. Oh yes I'm no paragon of virtue either and anyone that keeps purposely getting up my nose can expect a retaliation on ocassion ....... otherwise I keep plodding on with my poetry and anyone that doesn't like it can lump it.

Well said.

Regarding 12o1, I hope this doesn't appear to be patronizing because it isn't meant to be: I came to this site to learn. There are a number of people here who challenge my thinking about poetry. 12o1 is certainly one of those and has been the most influential of late.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Whew! That had me reeling, for sure... Once upon a time, a long, long time ago, I used to be an amateur pugilist. In a bout, when you meet someone better than you, your rival keeps on jabbing punch after punch, relentlessly. All your training, all the footwork, all the defenses, the ducks and the swerves fall by the wayside. You just reel in with the punches, in daze, in awe, in anger and in shame... Thats the effect some posts can have here too.

Today of course my bouting days are far behind. Today I'm just left tut-tutting, that first stanza of Eliot comes to mind:

LET us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;
Let us go, through certain half-deserted streets,
The muttering retreats
Of restless nights in one-night cheap hotels
And sawdust restaurants with oyster-shells:
<b>Streets that follow like a tedious argument
Of insidious intent
To lead you to an overwhelming question …
Oh, do not ask, “What is it?”
Let us go and make our visit.<b>

In the room the women come and go
Talking of Michelangelo.

...

I think the difference here is that I'm not at all a poet. And I know that. Some of you are highly accomplished in the craft. So your reactions, your synapses are much different from those of mine. I don't even understand many poems. My cultural references are different too. (No, I am not a Brit). Like GM's Maggie's one still has me tearing my hair...

Having said that, I respect the heartfelt angst that comes across. I respect the months, years of frustrations that are oh-so-evident in the frenzy above. So I shall refrain from triggering any further outburst. I dont vote because I dont think I'm accomplished enough to that entitlement. Which is why I dont expect any votes either. Criticism is more than I can hope for. Anonymous or specific, it doesn't make a difference to me...

Its like those who understand music, keys, scales etc will react to a music far differently than those who just love a particular music or song without having any understanding of notes etc. I'm the latter kind. I love music, but ask me about notes, scales, etc., and I turn a "fucktard"...

And hey, thanks for all the comments and to all of you...

I dispute your reasons to not vote you don't have to be a 'poet' (whatever that is) to appreciate poetry as you don't have to be a virtuoso to love music

 

[Desejo]

Thanks

Thanks to UnderyourSpell, Koba, GreenMountaineer, Tristesse2 and Chipbutty for the feedback on Weighty issues and In the Palm of your Hand. And a special thanks to Chipbutty for her vote of confidence in recommending both (smile).

 

[UnderYourSpell]

The Editor must have a large amount of new poems to read I've never had a poem in pending this long before. Perhaps he/she is considering whether to let it through or not

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Aghhhhhhhhh it's happened again! I take the time to do a well thought out critique on a poem, but because it doesn't say how absolutely wonderful it is they've deleted it! I don't know why I effing bother at all!!!!! Actually I think it's the same poet (?) who did it before I should have known better I suppose

 

[champagne1982]

Aghhhhhhhhh it's happened again! I take the time to do a well thought out critique on a poem, but because it doesn't say how absolutely wonderful it is they've deleted it! I don't know why I effing bother at all!!!!! Actually I think it's the same poet (?) who did it before I should have known better I suppose

Would it be wrong to start a thread titled "Annie's View" or something like that. Explain the intent of the thread in the opening post and then, post 1, 2 and so on could be the quoted poems with links and then your critiques. If the poets don't wish to be quoted, you can simply hot link a poem without posting the actual work in question, and still critique the piece. That way, you have your say, (you can direct the poets to your thread here on the pobo) and still retain control over deleting your comments or not, the beauty of the "edit" feature.