"To keep the review thread clean..."

[annaswirls]

Hi Anniebug's man! I feel silly saying welcome as I know you have been here awhile. It is sad that Lotus has faded away... I came in right as it started to falter.

I love your work-- visual and literary, and am glad you have come to be an active participant in the poetry forum.

~annaswirls

As my name implies, I am the appendage of whom I consider to be the most beautiful woman in the world. Other than that I am father, litigator, gentle man, poet, photographer and friend of culture. In that order

*What you hope to get out of your time at lit (please include level of critique you are looking for)

Interesting reads, critique

*What do you hope to contribute to the poetry community at literotica? What role do you see yourself playing here?

I enjoy reviewing other poeples work and write about it.


*How would you describe your writing?

abstract, rhythmic, free verse


*URL to your work at lit, personal website etc.


see signature and I have posted under various names here. I was very involved in Lotus Blooms as their resident critic. I used to post as sweetwood and other names



*List of some of your favorite poems/stories you have at Lit, in case anyone wants to get a taste of your work



Paris without Choice

some of my best work was never posted here

Thanks to all

 

[Shadow_Kyss]

Blushing

Perhaps a diamond in the rough--one who should be encouraged to learn more so she can improve her poetry, if that is what she is interested in doing. Her words are full of emotion. The poem could be better if she stepped back from it, then did some editing. Of course, that may not be her goal.
And guess what, Art. Editing isn't a no no. Critics giving constructive feedback is not a no no. Shooting down critics who point out grammatical mistakes is more of a no no, as far as I'm concerned. It only encourages novice poets to ignore GOOD constructive feedback. Many novices want the praise and believe they may be too fragile for anything less. But I have to give many of them credit. Many really do prove that they can take suggestions and improve their writing.

I never considered myself a poet... rhyming is a weak point. though i am one for painting pictures with words. I love to let the readers feel the emotions presented in my writings. I love hearing when people can relate to the emotions. I take critism well and i am also very surprised to see any mention of my writings on a post... so thank you.

Kyss

 

[The Poets]

I take critism well

Kyss

Then your poetry can only keep getting better, and that is a good thing.

Wicked Eve

 

[annaswirls]

Where there is one shoe, there is always hope!

Have you found it yet? Check with Eve, she is always hording things.

Are you signifigantly insignificant yet or do you have some work to do?



I want your name.

Welcome!

annaswirls

*What you hope to get out of your time at lit (please include level of critique you are looking for)
I have no hope
I was just looking for my shoe, not a critique

*What do you hope to contribute to the poetry community at literotica? What role do you see yourself playing here?
i hope to attain the highest level of insignicance possible
I would like to play the role of hamlet and i will sleep with the casting director if thats what it takes

*How would you describe your writing?
mundane or pedestrian

*URL to your work at lit, personal website etc.
Harry's Poems

*List of some of your favorite poems/stories you have at Lit, in case anyone wants to get a taste of your work
I try not to play favourites

 

[annaswirls]

Hi Stella_Omega,

I have seen you all around the Poetry Forum, and wanted to officially say hi, not that I am official or anything, just... you know.

I come to the forum just to look at your av. I want to be in that movie.

Hope you stay around for a long long time,

annaswirls

OH, another form writer!

Hi Angeline, I was just reading your conversation in the "Tudo Quanto" thread.
Yes, repeating other sonnets helps. My favorite is a modern one, by Archibald Macleish "Sonnet To The End of The World" which I'm going to now add to the "share poets" thread...
I'm afraid I'm so happy and excited about this new phase of mine, I'm looking silly!

 

[WickedEve]

Where there is one shoe, there is always hope!

Have you found it yet? Check with Eve, she is always hording things.

Are you signifigantly insignificant yet or do you have some work to do?



I want your name.

Welcome!

annaswirls

Hording what?
Oh, I really, really need to catch up with this thread.

 

[WickedEve]

*What you hope to get out of your time at lit (please include level of critique you are looking for)
I have no hope
I was just looking for my shoe, not a critique

*What do you hope to contribute to the poetry community at literotica? What role do you see yourself playing here?
i hope to attain the highest level of insignicance possible
I would like to play the role of hamlet and i will sleep with the casting director if thats what it takes

*How would you describe your writing?
mundane or pedestrian

*URL to your work at lit, personal website etc.
Harry's Poems

*List of some of your favorite poems/stories you have at Lit, in case anyone wants to get a taste of your work
I try not to play favourites

That is so cute!

 

[annaswirls]

Hording what?
Oh, I really, really need to catch up with this thread.

I really just posted that to see if you were reading
now give the boy his shoe back

 

[WickedEve]

I really just posted that to see if you were reading
now give the boy his shoe back

You are evil. Too evil for the new sinister trapezoid.

 

[annaswirls]

You are evil. Too evil for the new sinister trapezoid.

okay ,okay so be it
I am starting my own uber-evil rhombus

 

[WickedEve]

okay ,okay so be it
I am starting my own uber-evil rhombus

the trapezoid feels threatened.

 

[KR]

Thank you

Thank you for the welcome and the kind words, annaswirls

Some of the poets here have been giving me feedback on what I've posted. It has been rather educational, as I've pretty much kept my writing to myself all these years.

 

[annaswirls]

Thank you for the welcome and the kind words, annaswirls

Some of the poets here have been giving me feedback on what I've posted. It has been rather educational, as I've pretty much kept my writing to myself all these years.

I am glad! Lit was the first place I publically shared my poetry as well!

 

[annaswirls]

the trapezoid feels threatened.

um it shouldn't. I only have one coordinate and she is getting sleepy.

where is variable xy when I need him to hold up a line?

 

[Tzara]

Maybe.

I recognized this as Shakespeare in the first few lines - there are changes, to turn it into a sex poem.

The simple acknowledgement, however that were done, would let it be known that it was a reworking of an already established piece of written material.

To just put your name above it, without some sort of acknowledgement, is a no no for me.

We had this discussion recently, on a thread Jim started.

I disagree here. The speech being parodied (and to me it is quite obvious parody) is one of the most famous in Shakespeare. Certainly the single most famous speech in Henry V. You wouldn't (or shouldn't) need to indicate that you are parodying Hamlet's "To be or not to be" soliloquy, and the "Once more unto the breach dear friends" speech is nearly as famous. Plus the title, with the question mark, to me indicates it is meant tongue-in-cheek.

There is a broad watery wavy line that delineates fair use of other's writing and plagiarism. Plagiarism, to me, implies that someone has knowingly attempted to pass off another's work as one's own. I don't believe that it what was intended here at all. It isn't that interesting unless you recognize it as a parody of Shakespeare.

But, if you stick to these standards, please note that my comment on the poem is also parodying Henry V, from one of the other famous speeches.

 

[TheRainMan]

I disagree here. The speech being parodied (and to me it is quite obvious parody) is one of the most famous in Shakespeare. Certainly the single most famous speech in Henry V. You wouldn't (or shouldn't) need to indicate that you are parodying Hamlet's "To be or not to be" soliloquy, and the "Once more into the breech dear friends" speech is nearly as famous. Plus the title, with the question mark, to me indicates it is meant tongue-in-cheek.

I agree it is a parody, unacknowledged.

I don't think it is anywhere as well known, except to those well-versed in literature, as Hamlet's soliloquy, which is almost universally known, at least in part.

And the less well-known, the greater the need for acknowledgement. I would think common sense would dictate that.

The question mark and title, again, would make the parody clear only to those well-versed in literature.

There is a broad watery wavy line that delineates fair use of other's writing and plagiarism.

I agree.

Also, there is no set rule, to my knowledge, concerning the requirements of acknowledgment when parodying. The more obvious the source, the less need for acknowledgement, but how does one know?

Are there set requirements, Tzara?

Plagiarism, to me, implies that someone has knowingly attempted to pass off another's work as one's own.

I agree.

I don't believe that it what was intended here at all. It isn't that interesting unless you recognize it as a parody of Shakespeare.

I agree, given this all, that it was probably not intended.

We have had at least three instances of blatant plagiarism recently. As soon as I started reading, I rolled my eyes again.

I don't agree that it is interesting, even if recognized as a parody - but quality has nothing to do with the difference between parody and plagiarism.

And this was clearly parody.

But, if you stick to these standards, please note that my comment on the poem is also parodying Henry V, from one of the other famous speeches.

I didn't read your comment until just now.

 

[Tzara]

I don't think it is anywhere as well know, except to those well-versed in literature, as Hamlet's soliloquy, which is almost universally known, at least in part.

Obviously. But I think to anyone with much interest in Shakespeare (or in the history of Henry V or even the Wars of the Roses) would have a good chance of recognizing this. I could be wrong about that though. I am often wrong. (<--Last line ripped off from Raymond Chandler)

And the less well-known, the greater the need for acknowledgement. I would think common sense would dictate that.

The question mark and title, again, would make the parody clear only to those well-versed in literature.

Agreed again, of course. This is a matter of degree.

I would say that Ms. Strict agrees as well, as her earlier parody, "The Destruction of Free Will" explicitly notes the Byron poem she is parodying.

Also, there is no set rule, to my knowledge, concerning the requirements of acknowledgment when parodying. The more obvious the source, the less need for acknowledgement, but how does one know?

Are there set requirements, Tzara?

Now, now. Obviously I am arguing that there are not set requirements.

My guess here is that Ms. Strict felt that this passage was familiar enough as to not require specific acknowledgement. If, for example, she is British, I would suggest that it would be a reasonable assumption that most educated Britons would recognize the speech (at least would recognize Shakespeare's original) as I would expect them to recognize "This royal throne of kings, this scepter'd isle" from Richard II. Neither of these is probably as well known in the USA as it is in Britain.

Writers make assumptions about their audience. Perhaps she assumes an audience that is "well-versed in literature." (Or at least one that writes verse well. )

I don't agree that it is interesting, even if recognized as a parody - but quality has nothing to do with the difference between parody and plagiarism.

And this was clearly parody.

Actually what I meant to say was what was interesting about it was that it was parody.

So... we probably end in pretty much the same place. I think this one is pretty obvious, as I recognized it immediately. (Actually more or less from the title. That's why I read the poem in the first place.) I think it's mildly funny. You think it should have some indication that it is cribbed from Shakespeare. Fair enough. It would probably help people reading it, as well.

Keep up your bright words, else this 'do will rust them. (<--Othello, kind of)

 

[LeBroz]

I'm sure glad I missed this poem....

She plagiarized Shakespeare.

That takes some onions.

Perhaps she thought she gave away too much on her previous submission, The Destruction of Free Will, which overhauled Lord Byron's "The Destruction of Sennacherib." But then on that one, she left a hint and an apology to Byron.

I

The Assyrian came down like the wolf on the fold,
And his cohorts were gleaming in purple and gold;
And the sheen of their spears were like stars on the sea,
When the blue wave rolls nightly on deep Galilee.

II

Like the leaves of the forest when Summer is green,
That host with their banners at sunset were seen:
Like the leaves of the forest when Autumn hath blown,
That host on the morrow lay withered and strown.

III

For the angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed;
And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
And their hearts but once heaved - and for ever grew still!

IV

And there lay the steed with his nostril all wide,
But through it there rolled not the breath of his pride;
And the foam of his gasping lay white on the turf,
And cold as the spray of the rock-beating surf.

V

And there lay the rider distorted and pale,
With the dew on his brow, and the rust on his mail:
And the tents were all silent - the banners alone -
The lances unlifted - the trumpet unblown.

VI

And the widows of Ashur are loud in their wail,
And the idols are broke in the temple of Baal;
And the might of the Gentile, unsmote by the sword,
Hath melted like snow in the glance of the Lord!

 

[Harry Leg]

That is so cute!

Thank you.
Ususally i only get an "ick" or an "eww" or a "Get off my leg" but today I got a "Cute".

Look at me ma, top of the world.

 

[Maria2394]

s'cuse me while i poke my toes in here

For just a second to say THANK YOU to everyone who took the time to read and comment on my two recent poems. and THANKS to WickedEve for mentioning my work. Funny how some things come around in a perfect circle.

Garden Gate is a revision, I know some of you recognized it. It was tucked away, left to ferment and still isnt just right. I hope its okay to play with a poem on the comment page, because thats probably what I will be doing.

As for the other one, about the daffodils It is also a work in progress, but it has come along pretty well so far. Im still waiting for year 5. Thanks again, and yoru suggestions mean a lot to me, they are why I put my work here and I had forgotten that. I cant learn on my own. I like the atmosphere most of the time..

hugs and kisses,

marrria

 

[Harry Leg]

Where there is one shoe, there is always hope!

Have you found it yet? Check with Eve, she is always hording things.

Are you signifigantly insignificant yet or do you have some work to do?



I want your name.

Welcome!

annaswirls

Even with one shoe I still have no hope, only principles.

I think you might be right about Eve and my shoe. She seems too happy to not have an extra shoe kicking around.

I have of late been far too significant so there is much work to be done. However I'm lacking motivation, ambition, and any inclination to do any work whatsoever. I also tend towards procrastination so my insignificance has suffered accordingly. I will endeavour to work on it...maybe tomorrow.

You find my shoe and you can have my name. Fair trade I think.

Thank you kindly for the warm welcome

 

[Sara Crewe]

Still reading and found some more good poetry.

Split Rail
by Sara Crewe ©

She looks past wooden rails
and runs fingers along the grain
to convince herself smooth
fences mean no harm.

Thanks, WickedEve.

 

[WickedEve]

Thanks, WickedEve.

You're welcome.

And thanks to duckiesmut for the mention.
Art, 12, Maria, thanks for reading.

 

[Susan Strict]

I'm sure glad I missed this poem....

She plagiarized Shakespeare.

That takes some onions.

There's a difference between plagiarism and parody. And one would expect the reader to understand, rather than have to "announce" it.

 

[PatCarrington]

There's a difference between plagiarism and parody. And one would expect the reader to understand, rather than have to "announce" it.

There certainly is.

Hopefully, you read the whole thread, and saw that only 8 minutes later, I mentioned the word 'parody,' which your poem obviously was.

We've had numerous examples of plagiarism here lately, and I mistook it, reacted too quickly. Accept my apologoes.

As far as the writer expecting the reader to understand a work as being parody, that is another matter. The parody was 'unannounced' by you, so you must have assumed that all readers would know the passage you used. That is a large assumption.

"Fair use" is a milky term - The point about parody, what makes it work as parody, is that everyone instantly recognizes it.

The passage you parodied, to me, is not an instantly recognizable one. That, of course, does not make it plagiarism. I just think it should have been noted.

Judging from the comments that I saw on the poem, it appears only one reader recognized it as parody (Tzara), though I certainly should have, and would have had I not jumped the gun and read it in its entirety before posting.

My bad.