"To keep the review thread clean..."

[twelveoone]

I think we should limit posts there to new poem recommendations. Here's my reasoning: If you look through the earlier rec threads, you'll see they go off the rails when people start posting other stuff in them. And then the recommendations get lost and people stop looking at the thread.

I'd have put the link to the Fib place in the Forms Thread. I'm not sure where else it would fit and not get lost.

Have you written some? Did you go up to eight syllables?

re the big fib:
GAH
re your comment on the big fib, harry:
what part of five feet do you not understand?
as in five feet, count 'em, this is nature's way of sayin
you're walkin funny

 

[Angeline]

re the big fib:
GAH
re your comment on the big fib, harry:
what part of five feet do you not understand?
as in five feet, count 'em, this is nature's way of sayin
you're walkin funny

Not my cup of tea either but I guess we just disagree about forms. I think writing them makes one more disciplined as a writer. And some of them are wonderful poems. You know that some of the more innovative writers used mathematical systems to produce interesting poetry. Not that I see the point of the Fib myself, but like I said elsewhere to each his own.

What did you think of case28's poem today? Oh and I agree with you about todski--he is one quick study.

 

[twelveoone]

Not my cup of tea either but I guess we just disagree about forms. I think writing them makes one more disciplined as a writer. And some of them are wonderful poems. You know that some of the more innovative writers used mathematical systems to produce interesting poetry. Not that I see the point of the Fib myself, but like I said elsewhere to each his own.

What did you think of case28's poem today? Oh and I agree with you about todski--he is one quick study.

you see my comment, in further
a cut
above the standard newb disaster. Which it appeared to be on sight.

Regarding forms, we disagree slightly. Strict to the form is often to deform the poetry. Dropping in slots.
I don't like Yeats. (overstatement)
I don't like sonnets. (overstatement)
Yeats wrote one (maybe two?)
I like Yeats' sonnet. (understatement)
something happened there

todski got to the core quick, he needs to think about how he got there so fast, if he does he is there.

I see something in erectus, his tendency is to bury it in excess.
I see something in Ash, he needs to stop and think, i.e. what part of the flurry is worth it, and go with that
I see something in wakingDown, excellent organization (surface). Better word choice, a level deeper, a few more tricks. Could be awesome. Since Harry asked
Stanza from one of wakingDown's
Aware of the hate and fear (dropped in slot)
That surrounds and gathers
But smiles all the same (now if you really want to look at this, this is also a bit too easy, but it works)
With that hellish impudence bit too easy, better word choice (dropped in slot)
This is unfair to say to someone starting out, but doesn't quite create a story, a presence I want to feel the fear and the hate. The only reason I said it is because wakingDown will get there, maybe a little faster that I just did. All of these people are quite capable of doing so.
I believe comments are the way to go, they are worthy of, and they should leave them. It's the cheapest way to learn your own way. As long as they realize that nobody is right all the time and nobody knows everything, and most of it is just judgement calls.

 

[Desejo]

Regarding forms, we disagree slightly. Strict to the form is often to deform the poetry. Dropping in slots....

I see something in wakingDown, excellent organization (surface). Better word choice, a level deeper, a few more tricks. Could be awesome. Since Harry asked
Stanza from one of wakingDown's
Aware of the hate and fear (dropped in slot)
That surrounds and gathers
But smiles all the same (now if you really want to look at this, this is also a bit too easy, but it works)
With that hellish impudence bit too easy, better word choice (dropped in slot)
This is unfair to say to someone starting out, but doesn't quite create a story, a presence I want to feel the fear and the hate. The only reason I said it is because wakingDown will get there, maybe a little faster that I just did. All of these people are quite capable of doing so.

What do you mean about dropping in slots for wakingDown's poem? I agree with you on the story issue with his work, although I think it works because (right now) it creates an almost ghostly/foggy effect. Interesting point on his organization. I think I may be a bit of a control freak. If a poem is all over the place, too much and not edited I have a very hard time getting past that to see its merit.

 

[Angeline]

you see my comment, in further
a cut
above the standard newb disaster. Which it appeared to be on sight.

Regarding forms, we disagree slightly. Strict to the form is often to deform the poetry. Dropping in slots.
I don't like Yeats. (overstatement)
I don't like sonnets. (overstatement)
Yeats wrote one (maybe two?)
I like Yeats' sonnet. (understatement)
something happened there

todski got to the core quick, he needs to think about how he got there so fast, if he does he is there.

I see something in erectus, his tendency is to bury it in excess.
I see something in Ash, he needs to stop and think, i.e. what part of the flurry is worth it, and go with that
I see something in wakingDown, excellent organization (surface). Better word choice, a level deeper, a few more tricks. Could be awesome. Since Harry asked
Stanza from one of wakingDown's
Aware of the hate and fear (dropped in slot)
That surrounds and gathers
But smiles all the same (now if you really want to look at this, this is also a bit too easy, but it works)
With that hellish impudence bit too easy, better word choice (dropped in slot)
This is unfair to say to someone starting out, but doesn't quite create a story, a presence I want to feel the fear and the hate. The only reason I said it is because wakingDown will get there, maybe a little faster that I just did. All of these people are quite capable of doing so.
I believe comments are the way to go, they are worthy of, and they should leave them. It's the cheapest way to learn your own way. As long as they realize that nobody is right all the time and nobody knows everything, and most of it is just judgement calls.

Maybe the disagreement is more slight than I thought. I know we agree that when being strict about form causes one to make a bad word choice, line break, etc., one is missing the point. The point is to try to write good poetry and form can get in the way of that, but not always. And as to Yeats, that's just preference (I think). I do see your point about the sonnet. I've been slogging through some sonnets in the poem a week thread (and you can tell it's a slog from how long it's taking me to write them--I need a total of six), only because I want to try an experiment with them. They are not even particularly good sonnets imo, but they have some good lines and that's what I'm wanting. I'm also not especially following the rules cause um I don't care.

We need a thread about comments and feedback to 1) try to urge more people to do it and 2) try to get collective wisdom about it in one place. I know you have some threads, some older as well as more recent, that go into detail about commenting. We should find them so I can link them into a "Comments" thread. In fact, if anyone finds them and bumps them they'd be doing the forum a favor. I will work on all that more after the contest. But anyone could start a comments thread. However I am noticing this new (for me) phenomenon where there's almost as much dialogue between commenter and author on their poem page as there has been here on the forum. I believe a lot of that is due to you and your relentlessly thorough comments. It's very good: it draws more people into thinking and discussing what they write.

I haven't really connected with Ash's poems. Maybe I'll look at them again. Erectus is, imo, very talented but I'd love to see more unrhymed stuff from him. And this new poet case28, who Tess pointed out, is really good. Check out his page if you have a chance. Anyway breaking out of slots (if I understand you correctly: will read your answer to Des on that) can be sloppy but usually a good idea at least to try and see where it takes you.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I think we should limit posts there to new poem recommendations. Here's my reasoning: If you look through the earlier rec threads, you'll see they go off the rails when people start posting other stuff in them. And then the recommendations get lost and people stop looking at the thread.

I'd have put the link to the Fib place in the Forms Thread. I'm not sure where else it would fit and not get lost.

Have you written some? Did you go up to eight syllables?

Sorry beg pardon won't do it again!

As I recall way back there was a whole thread about them (wasn't it maybe incorporated into Concrete Poetry?) and I expect I wrote some then but that's about all I can remember

 

[twelveoone]

What do you mean about dropping in slots for wakingDown's poem? I agree with you on the story issue with his work, although I think it works because (right now) it creates an almost ghostly/foggy effect. Interesting point on his organization. I think I may be a bit of a control freak. If a poem is all over the place, too much and not edited I have a very hard time getting past that to see its merit.

I have a hard time getting into it without an internal alignment, inner logic. "Dropping in slots", lines and or words, writers thought geared more for the sake of the external, or the surface. "Swineburne syndrome"
Here, where the world is quiet;
Here, where all trouble seems
Dead winds' and spent waves' riot
In doubtful dreams of dreams;
I watch the green field growing
For reaping folk and sowing,
For harvest-time and mowing,
A sleepy world of streams.
Does not induce a lot of thought in me, does not create a presence, everything is in it's proper place.
Does this look all over the place?

“next to of course god america i
love you land of the pilgrims’ and so forth oh
say can you see by the dawn’s early my
country ’tis of centuries come and go
and are no more what of it we should worry
in every language even deafanddumb
thy sons acclaim your glorious name by gorry
by jingo by gee by gosh by gum
why talk of beauty what could be more beaut-
iful than these heroic happy dead
who rushed like lions to the roaring slaughter
they did not stop to think they died instead
then shall the voice of liberty be mute?”

He spoke. And drank rapidly a glass of water.

This is a sonnet, Des, everything is in its place deliberately, but is disruptive despite that. But great attention is paid to the internal logic and lines like these "who rushed like lions to the roaring slaughter" demand the reader do also.
some other words on....
http://www.english.illinois.edu/maps/poets/a_f/cummings/nexttoofcourse.htm

 

[twelveoone]

country ’tis of centuries come and go


thy sons acclaim your glorious name by gorry


why talk of beauty what could be more beaut-
iful than these heroic happy dead

see what he is doing with word alignment, alliterate and contrast in the same package

heroic happy dead -noun phrase, dead the noun, which gives us two adjectives, right? How important are these adjectives?
Way back, way then, had a argument with Pat. C. about how you just can't walk away from these bastards, i.e. is was important for Dante to be in the dark woods.

 

[twelveoone]

re case28:
case28 is pretty much doing the exact opposite of wakingDown, wakingDown is dropping in slots, case28 is aligning according to meaning (of words). It is a rather simplistic alignment and the placement and choice of words does nothing for me. i.e. writes like 1201 on a very, very bad day. You have to be very selective when you do this shit.
I'm glad whoever liked it, liked it, he got a 5 from me. But from personal experience case28 would be better dropping in slots. However, he does write in a linear fashion so it may work for him.

 

[greenmountaineer]

Huh hour

Incredible poem from presumably the Golden Age of Literotica:

A Birth of Me

 

[wakingDown]

re case28:
case28 is pretty much doing the exact opposite of wakingDown, wakingDown is dropping in slots, case28 is aligning according to meaning (of words). It is a rather simplistic alignment and the placement and choice of words does nothing for me. i.e. writes like 1201 on a very, very bad day. You have to be very selective when you do this shit.
I'm glad whoever liked it, liked it, he got a 5 from me. But from personal experience case28 would be better dropping in slots. However, he does write in a linear fashion so it may work for him.

Hello. I wanted to know if you could explain to me what you mean by 'dropping in slots', as I am afraid I don't understand what you mean. Please keep in mind that I know next to nothing about poetry, and any explanation would need to be laid out in simple terms. I would like to know what is being seen by those that actually know how poetry is supposed to function. Your help would be appreciated.

 

[Angeline]

Incredible poem from presumably the Golden Age of Literotica:

A Birth of Me

Cool that you are discovering jthserra. Like I said in another thread, he wrote some of the best poems I've ever read here. He also has a bunch of essays on poetry, in his story section, though it looks like maybe some have been taken down--but not sure. I think they're all categorized as "how to."

There's also a thread in the forum called the Archival Review, where one can discover incredible poetry that has just been sitting on Lit for years. It's a project to read through it, but there are real gems there.

 

[twelveoone]

Hello. I wanted to know if you could explain to me what you mean by 'dropping in slots', as I am afraid I don't understand what you mean. Please keep in mind that I know next to nothing about poetry, and any explanation would need to be laid out in simple terms. I would like to know what is being seen by those that actually know how poetry is supposed to function. Your help would be appreciated.

Question is much more difficult than you assume, poetry functions on a variety of levels, in different ways. Simply put, you are OK with 'dropping in slots', you need better word choice. After better word choice, how do the words align.
At least two examples above in this thread.

A simple read though of yours compared to case28 will begin to show you, you are
'dropping in slots', case28 is aligning words. This by no means a value judgement, as in one poem or type being better than the other. It is merely an observation.
Some of your word choices are "too easy", above a certain level they register as a nothing in a reader, they cease to function.

 

[wakingDown]

I think I see what you mean. That the words are being used as structure material instead of structure being a by product of how the words come out. Whether a word is 'easy' or not, I am not really concerned with. I only try to form the ideations as they feel to me, and use the words that are closest to the concepts that I am trying to get across. The forms or formats that are used are chosen because I think that it fits how the idea flow or seats in my mind, nothing more. Thank you for the explanation. It is something that I will consider and observe in future.

 

[twelveoone]

I think I see what you mean. That the words are being used as structure material instead of structure being a by product of how the words come out. Whether a word is 'easy' or not, I am not really concerned with. I only try to form the ideations as they feel to me, and use the words that are closest to the concepts that I am trying to get across. The forms or formats that are used are chosen because I think that it fits how the idea flow or seats in my mind, nothing more. Thank you for the explanation. It is something that I will consider and observe in future.

I only try to form the ideations as they feel to me, and use the words that are closest to the concepts that I am trying to get across. The forms or formats that are used are chosen because I think that it fits how the idea flow or seats in my mind, nothing more. =This is good

Whether a word is 'easy' or not, I am not really concerned with. = This concern yourself with, although you are not a big offender, nothing really cheap and easy


It takes time, and as long as you consider it, you will naturally chose better.

 

[wakingDown]

Thank you for the advice.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

I have just spent an HOUR reading and leaving lengthy comments. I haven't checked them all but the two I did go back to have gone I am NOT about to go back and re-do them, sorry, life is too short.

Yes! I am angry!

 

[greenmountaineer]

I have just spent an HOUR reading and leaving lengthy comments. I haven't checked them all but the two I did go back to have gone I am NOT about to go back and re-do them, sorry, life is too short.

Yes! I am angry!

For some reason, Lit won't accept my comments, except as anonymous, although I can post in the threads.

 

[Angeline]

I have just spent an HOUR reading and leaving lengthy comments. I haven't checked them all but the two I did go back to have gone I am NOT about to go back and re-do them, sorry, life is too short.

Yes! I am angry!

This has happened to me frequently in the past few weeks. And I'm annoyed too because I often put a lot into those comments.

For some reason, Lit won't accept my comments, except as anonymous, although I can post in the threads.

Have you both filed bug reports? I've done it a few times now. Maybe if enough of us do it, they'll get the message.

Another option is to send your comments as feedback, if the user accepts it. It'll go to their email that way. It's not as useful though because other readers can't see your comments then. That's always illuminating to me--to see what others thought.

 

[wakingDown]

Many of my poems had multiple comments, and now most have no comments. Over time they seem to disappear. I have not seen it happen very quickly, it usually takes a few days. But it is rather disconcerting. I read the comments many times over to see how others think when reading my work, and when the comments disappear, then that alternative viewpoint of what I have done disappears with it, leaving me without that insight.
I just put in a bug report, I hope that it can give some insight or a bit more urgency towards correcting the problem. I hate to see the effort of good feedback vanishing like so much smoke.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Many of my poems had multiple comments, and now most have no comments. Over time they seem to disappear. I have not seen it happen very quickly, it usually takes a few days. But it is rather disconcerting. I read the comments many times over to see how others think when reading my work, and when the comments disappear, then that alternative viewpoint of what I have done disappears with it, leaving me without that insight.
I just put in a bug report, I hope that it can give some insight or a bit more urgency towards correcting the problem. I hate to see the effort of good feedback vanishing like so much smoke.

If you go to where you make your submissions you can still read the comments there

 

[wakingDown]

If you go to where you make your submissions you can still read the comments there

Yes, I know. But they are gone from there as well. That is where I usually view the comments from. It is where I noticed that they were disappearing. I hope that the problem is addressed soon. I don't like losing the observations of my work from other points of view.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Yes, I know. But they are gone from there as well. That is where I usually view the comments from. It is where I noticed that they were disappearing. I hope that the problem is addressed soon. I don't like losing the observations of my work from other points of view.

Ouch that's not on! Mine are still there from years ago when we had a thermometer instead of stars

 

[Angeline]

Yes, I know. But they are gone from there as well. That is where I usually view the comments from. It is where I noticed that they were disappearing. I hope that the problem is addressed soon. I don't like losing the observations of my work from other points of view.

You can always post your poems on the forum and ask for feedback if you want. People do that all the time and though you may not get as many views here, you'll probably get more detailed feedback. That's not really a solution, I know, but more of a work-around.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Thank you for the mention Angeline ...... it's been a while