Trained to Come

[FurryFury]

A dom doesn't teach a submissive how to be a submissive. They trigger or help free certain responses in the other, assisting the other to become comfortable and accepting of these responses. This is usually done with positive reenforcement and approval as well as negative reenforcement (such as punishment) and disapproval.

The same can be said with orgasm on command. The sub is capable of achieving this on their own. All the dom does is help the sub target where they are mentally in their state of arousal, usually intense arousal, so they can become conditioned to return to that mark. This is done by the help of their dom through tone, contact, area of contact and word(s) during the repeated process of targeting. Once that place is set, the sub can reach it by any and/or all of the methods used by the dom, usually easier each time as the sub becomes accustomed to reaching the target.

Orgasm on command can become a complete orgasm, mental, physical as well as spiritual. The dom is inside the mind of the sub as well as the psyche so the dom needs to be aware of the power of that switch they toggle. They can make it happen repeatedly, eventually making it unpleasant for the sub since their whole being can be involved; becoming painful, exhausting and mentally draining. So, as in any scene the dom needs to know when to stop, even more so with multi-orgasmic subs. Here the dom will need to shut down the cycling in the sub.

Want! Now!

*pouts*

Fury

I am working on it my own damn self though. *grr*

 

[Stefani]

When i was younger i worked with a pro Domme for a while. She was quite proud of the fact that she could get her submissives to orgasm on command.

Basically she worked them over for their hour session... by which time they were plenty keyed up. At the end of the session, she'd tell them they had 10 seconds to masturbate and cum. If they didn't cum by the time she snapped her fingers, they had to get dressed and leave. Then she started counting. Some came right away, some came when she snapped her fingers at the count of 10.

She got a certain smug satisfaction out of being able to control men's orgasms that way. To her, it gave her great power.

 

[FurryFury]

When i was younger i worked with a pro Domme for a while. She was quite proud of the fact that she could get her submissives to orgasm on command.

Basically she worked them over for their hour session... by which time they were plenty keyed up. At the end of the session, she'd tell them they had 10 seconds to masturbate and cum. If they didn't cum by the time she snapped her fingers, they had to get dressed and leave. Then she started counting. Some came right away, some came when she snapped her fingers at the count of 10.

She got a certain smug satisfaction out of being able to control men's orgasms that way. To her, it gave her great power.

That sort of smug satisfaction in which one feels like they have "power" kinda pisses me off and brings back some bad memories. In the right consensual context I can see it being fine though. I'm sure this was consensual.


Fury

 

[cliffchuff]

in hypnotherapy the attatchhment of an emotional response to a touch, image, sound or any other sensual stimulus is called 'setting an anchor' we do this all the time. Think of a phobic response built from a single experience as one end of the spectrum.
Generally in relationships we will attatch positive feelings to those we care about so sexy experiences provoke more this can be why relationships get hot quickly. By contrast a lazy lover will anchor less feeling decreasing sexual association over time.
If the dom overuses the 'trigger' inapropriatly it will loose intensity (and the reverse )

if you begin with heightened states of sexuality and introduce anchors such as words or specific touches these can be built into commands.
This can be done surripticously but will be far more effective with cooperation/compliance
active participation as the subject feeds back suggestions to fine tune/heighten the experience.
about 2% of the population are extremely suggestable (these are the types stage hypnotherapists target) and a similar amount are very difficult, most people as would be expected are nearer the middle.

 

[Etoile]

Interesting thoughts, cliffchuff. I don't really hold much faith in hypnosis or hypnotherapy. What you're describing sounds downright Pavlovian. I believe responses and beliefs can be taught and conditioned - teaching someone that they are a slave, that they always kneel down and present themselves when you give a certain command...but I don't think these things are necessarily "triggered" but rather result from the pyl integrating the belief into their personality, or consciously remembering to kneel down.

 

[cliffchuff]

Taught and conditioned are forms of 'anchor' lets take for example the smell of lavender reminding you of your grandmother and provoking an emotional response or the smell of hospitals triggering an emotional response.

What is different in a hypnotherapy context is you often lay anchors without the client knowing in order to disrupt behaviour patterns or associations.

Sexually imagine if whenever you lover was in extreme states of arosal (with heightened awareness) and you were to always say 'elephant' if done with skill the word 'elephant' would become associated very quickly with the state, then by setting the scene- letting your partner know you will at some point say 'elephant' you begin triggering the desired state, as I said if you simply say elephant without the contextual reinforcement the command could extinct.

S&M sex involves particulairly strong emotional responses so this type of suggestive training could happen without either party knowing what they were doing (Though i would argue that a good mood creater is setting states and has understanding of the effects of this on their other)

 

[kayte]

This is a great topic, and there are such a variety of experiences being shared here.

I was voice trained by my first Dom. It was pretty good. When in person, or on the phone. I became so attuned to his voice, the words and all of the rest.

Those orgasms without any other stimulation were good, but not the earthshaking ones when both were combined.

What happened was the relationship ended. I discovered I had been so focused on his voice, to hear the word "Cum" in his voice, that I couldn't cum; for the longest time.

I had to "reclaim my self" to that extent. I just wanted to put that flag up for anyone doing this.

The Sir I am currently with knows all of that. And doesn't want me to be voiced trained to that extent.

When He tells me to cum though that does add to and set off even more fireworks.... He has made sure though that I can still bring myself off without Him being there.

 

[cliffchuff]

He has made sure though that I can still bring myself off without Him being there.

as long as you have permission

 

[kayte]

as long as you have permission

But of couse!

 

[Panache1957]

C.o.c.

Any sub can cum on command, it just takes some longer to learn the techniques than others. I personally have trained 6 to do so. The most proficient at it and the one with the most acceptance of who and what she was could also cum when I touched her "spot"; it was predetermined that every time I would touch her right shoulder, she would cum. I distinctly recall one such time when she was having her hair done. It was so erotic!

 

[Etoile]

Any sub can cum on command, it just takes some longer to learn the techniques than others. I personally have trained 6 to do so. The most proficient at it and the one with the most acceptance of who and what she was could also cum when I touched her "spot"; it was predetermined that every time I would touch her right shoulder, she would cum. I distinctly recall one such time when she was having her hair done. It was so erotic!

This is very interesting, but I am a bit skeptical; I hope you don't mind if I quiz you a bit in a friendly matter and explain the source of my doubts.

First of all, I resent somewhat the implication that those who cannot orgasm on command are somehow less submissive than those who can do it (or even that they just doubt their submissive nature). Playing "subbier than thou" is a dangerous game that nobody can ever really win.

As for the training you have done, I am curious - were any of these women (I assume they were all women) on any medication? My personal experience has been that many different medications, particularly psychoactive drugs, can inhibit the ability to have an orgasm at all, let alone on command.

You mention "techniques" - what techniques have you used that have been effective with six different women? I would think this kind of thing would need to be individually tailored and not one size fits all. It sounds awfully Pavlovian, but I have always thought that an important part of Pavlov's work was keeping the dogs hungry. Responding to the bell was part of an instinct for self-preservation, because if they didn't eat, they would die. Having an orgasm at a master's command is not as instinctive, because the master surely has not threatened death with sincerity enough that the submissive believes it.

I suppose my last question is a bit forward, but it's what came to mind. Do you know for certain that the submissives you have worked with - particularly the one in the hair salon - were genuinely experiencing orgasm? If you are certain, why are you so? Could they possibly have been faking, exaggerating, or having a different type of orgasm than is typically associated with sexual encounters?

Again, I am not intending to sound insulting or say you are lying - I am genuinely curious about these questions because the situation you describe sounds so dubious to me.

 

[chris9]

I once read in a book about sexuality (which was something better than the average one you get to 'teach' about it) that some women who are paraplegic can have an orgasm from another spot than 'down there'. I'm curious about it, too.

I didn't read Panache1957's post as 'all *true* submissives can cum on command' but more as 'all women can', but only the subs would be taught to.

 

[Panache1957]

Response

This is very interesting, but I am a bit skeptical; I hope you don't mind if I quiz you a bit in a friendly matter and explain the source of my doubts.

First of all, I resent somewhat the implication that those who cannot orgasm on command are somehow less submissive than those who can do it (or even that they just doubt their submissive nature). Playing "subbier than thou" is a dangerous game that nobody can ever really win.

As for the training you have done, I am curious - were any of these women (I assume they were all women) on any medication? My personal experience has been that many different medications, particularly psychoactive drugs, can inhibit the ability to have an orgasm at all, let alone on command.

You mention "techniques" - what techniques have you used that have been effective with six different women? I would think this kind of thing would need to be individually tailored and not one size fits all. It sounds awfully Pavlovian, but I have always thought that an important part of Pavlov's work was keeping the dogs hungry. Responding to the bell was part of an instinct for self-preservation, because if they didn't eat, they would die. Having an orgasm at a master's command is not as instinctive, because the master surely has not threatened death with sincerity enough that the submissive believes it.

I suppose my last question is a bit forward, but it's what came to mind. Do you know for certain that the submissives you have worked with - particularly the one in the hair salon - were genuinely experiencing orgasm? If you are certain, why are you so? Could they possibly have been faking, exaggerating, or having a different type of orgasm than is typically associated with sexual encounters?

Again, I am not intending to sound insulting or say you are lying - I am genuinely curious about these questions because the situation you describe sounds so dubious to me.

I LOVE THIS PLACE! Where else can you have an open and forthright conversation about things that "polite society" does not understand and would never accept.

I will try to answer your questions, but if I skip one or two, just say so and I will address those as well.

I do not mean that those who can COC are more or less "subbier", but rather those who find it easier to achieve accept and embrace in their mind, who and what they are. Some fight or rebel against being sub mentally, and as we all know (I hope) that all physical actions as well as emotions start in the mind. Thus, the subs who accept are more apt to be able to COC.

I have a real aversion to drugs , so no they were not on medication.

The "technique" is certainly not "cookie cutter" however it does have its roots in "mind play" (I hate that phrase as it seems to denegrate the act). I lie close to her (yes they were all female) and stroke her while speaking softly into her ear reinforcing or sometimes "convincing" her of who she REALLY is deep inside. I get her to a place of complete relaxation and then start the erotic part wherein we travel to orgasm. I want to add that these sessions may be over the phone as well, but are less effective. The process to have her COC varies widely in terms of time as it is really up to her in that she wants/needs to please both her and myself.

I do not believe that they were faking orgasm, however each one (and I loved and continue to hold dear) related that physical orgasm was more powerful as both the mind AND the body arestimulated.

And, no I don't take offense, because if you or anyone else "believes", it does not alter the facts.

I hope you don't take the last remark as me coming off as a smart ass,after I re-read it seems a bit harsh, and I don't mean it that way. I truly enjoy the conversation.

 

[Etoile]

I LOVE THIS PLACE! Where else can you have an open and forthright conversation about things that "polite society" does not understand and would never accept.

I'm so glad you feel that way! I often avoid saying things because I know they won't be taken in the spirit I intend them, such as this. Somewhere on this board, many months ago, I pointed out that just because I disagree wiith someone in a thread doesn't mean I don't like them as a person! This is a novel concept for some people, of course, but I'm glad you undersstand and agree with me about the benefits of lively debate.

I have a real aversion to drugs , so no they were not on medication.

This is an interesting comment. I assume you are not referring to something like allergy pills or heart medication - non-psychoactive drugs - but please correct me if I'm wrong. As for other drugs, like something for depression or bipolar disorder, would you refuse to establish (or maintain) a relationship with someone on drugs like these? If you would accept some but not others, where is the line for you? (If you were referring to cocaine or marijuana, then you answered a different question but your answer is perfectly understandable.)

 

[ownedsubgal]

Any sub can cum on command, it just takes some longer to learn the techniques than others. I personally have trained 6 to do so. The most proficient at it and the one with the most acceptance of who and what she was could also cum when I touched her "spot"; it was predetermined that every time I would touch her right shoulder, she would cum. I distinctly recall one such time when she was having her hair done. It was so erotic!

i disagree that any sub can cum on command, and also with the idea that fully embracing/accepting one's submissive nature automatically makes the process of learning to cum on command easier. first, there are many females that are unable to achieve orgasm, or who have an extremely difficult time reaching achieving orgasm...if a submissive has such issues, then i would think that cumming on command would be an impossibility. also for some it's their very submissive nature which may inhibit them from experiencing orgasm (much less cumming on command) in the first place. that is definitely the case with me...my lil subbie voice deep inside tells me that orgasm or even experiencing sexual pleasure are wrong and un-sublike, even though logically i know that isn't the case. but because of those submissive blocks, i almost never orgasm, never display any sign of sexual pleasure, and learning to cum on command is just out of the question. but i am amazed and mightily impressed with those who are able to achieve this.

 

[graceanne]

i disagree that any sub can cum on command, and also with the idea that fully embracing/accepting one's submissive nature automatically makes the process of learning to cum on command easier. first, there are many females that are unable to achieve orgasm, or who have an extremely difficult time reaching achieving orgasm...if a submissive has such issues, then i would think that cumming on command would be an impossibility.

Actually you kinda put in mind something I was wondering about. I know that jsut cause you're a sub doesn't mean you can orgasm. I know of several people who rarely do, and if their's ANY pressure it won't happen. Period. I also have a friend who has . . . I forget the name of what she has, but she's got scar tissue on her uterus and ovaries. She also finds it difficult to orgasm, and it has nothing to do with anything other than a medical condition.

 

[CutieMouse]

Actually you kinda put in mind something I was wondering about. I know that jsut cause you're a sub doesn't mean you can orgasm. I know of several people who rarely do, and if their's ANY pressure it won't happen. Period. I also have a friend who has . . . I forget the name of what she has, but she's got scar tissue on her uterus and ovaries. She also finds it difficult to orgasm, and it has nothing to do with anything other than a medical condition.

Endometriosis (which I probably misspelled)

 

[graceanne]

Endometriosis (which I probably misspelled)

Yeah, that's it. And you probably did, but I dont' know how to spell it, either. LOL

 

[Bachlum Chaam]

I would like to give my thoughts on this subject

The act of an orgasm on command can be done with both male (I believe) and female submissives the easiest way to do it I find is have a trigger phrase it can be anything......... but be aware if its something too easy it can be an innocuous phrase and its possible that if a third party were to mention it the sub could orgasm there and then

Deny the sub the right to orgasm unless (I will use, she) she hears or sees the typewritten word/phrase in time and this purely depends on the girl if done enough she will orgasm

I personally love this training

Downside is that the girl can never orgasm unless she gets her trigger, I have found e-mails not to work (not tried for it) should you split up she then has to relearn to orgasm on her own........ this can be pretty unpleasant I imagine

The principle of the "art" is Pavlovs dogs experiment

For a submissive this is an exciting way of showing/proving her submission and in my case a get pleasure but be aware of the problems that can arise

 

[kayte]

I would like to give my thoughts on this subject

The act of an orgasm on command can be done with both male (I believe) and female submissives the easiest way to do it I find is have a trigger phrase it can be anything......... but be aware if its something too easy it can be an innocuous phrase and its possible that if a third party were to mention it the sub could orgasm there and then

Deny the sub the right to orgasm unless (I will use, she) she hears or sees the typewritten word/phrase in time and this purely depends on the girl if done enough she will orgasm

I personally love this training

Downside is that the girl can never orgasm unless she gets her trigger, I have found e-mails not to work (not tried for it) should you split up she then has to relearn to orgasm on her own........ this can be pretty unpleasant I imagine

The principle of the "art" is Pavlovs dogs experiment

For a submissive this is an exciting way of showing/proving her submission and in my case a get pleasure but be aware of the problems that can arise

From experience, reclaiming the ability to cum on my own was quite something. It is something no one ever explained. It was difficult.

Glad to see it is being brought up on this thread.

 

[BeachGurl2]

I'm just now realizing that I am sub, but I have also learned to do this. However, it only works with certain people and in certain situations for me. One thing I've learned is that you can't focus on it too much or you frustrate yourself out of it happening. Just let go completely and it can happen.

 

[Betticus]

Actually you kinda put in mind something I was wondering about. I know that jsut cause you're a sub doesn't mean you can orgasm. I know of several people who rarely do, and if their's ANY pressure it won't happen. Period. I also have a friend who has . . . I forget the name of what she has, but she's got scar tissue on her uterus and ovaries. She also finds it difficult to orgasm, and it has nothing to do with anything other than a medical condition.

Endometriosis. Not good stuff, my ex wife has it.

 

[Etoile]

She also finds it difficult to orgasm, and it has nothing to do with anything other than a medical condition.

This is why I had asked about medication. I'll use myself as an example. I have generalized anxiety disorder; why or how is irrelevant but I've had it all my life. For several years I have been medicated for it; I am presently on Celexa which has as a known side effect the reducttion of libido. My libido is fine, I still want sex, but I find orgasm extremely difficult. My wife can tell you there have been times I've cried in despair from not being able to reach it. Regardless of why I take the Celexa - pretend it's another drug with the same effects if you don't believe in anxiety disorder - the fact remains that I am medically limited from being able to reach orgasm. I'm lucky in that if I'm expecting to get laid I can skip the Celexa, but not everyone has that option.

I look forward to hearing Panache's response to my question about medication.

 

[BeachGurl2]

This is why I had asked about medication. I'll use myself as an example. I have generalized anxiety disorder; why or how is irrelevant but I've had it all my life. For several years I have been medicated for it; I am presently on Celexa which has as a known side effect the reducttion of libido. My libido is fine, I still want sex, but I find orgasm extremely difficult. My wife can tell you there have been times I've cried in despair from not being able to reach it. Regardless of why I take the Celexa - pretend it's another drug with the same effects if you don't believe in anxiety disorder - the fact remains that I am medically limited from being able to reach orgasm. I'm lucky in that if I'm expecting to get laid I can skip the Celexa, but not everyone has that option.

I look forward to hearing Panache's response to my question about medication.

Well, Etoile, I'm not Panache, but I also suffer from anxiety/panic disorder as well as clinical depression, although I've been off of medication for several years now. At some point in my life, I've been on just about every medication they have, except for the new ones - haven't been medicated in about 7-8 years by choice because I chose to go a more natural route that works for me. Have you talked to your doctor about this? There are several medications that you can try that may not have the same effect. Just because you have this disorder does not mean that you shouldn't be able to achieve orgasm. I know it can be difficult to talk to your doctor about, but you won't know if you don't try. Good luck.

 

[Panache1957]

This is why I had asked about medication. I'll use myself as an example. I have generalized anxiety disorder; why or how is irrelevant but I've had it all my life. For several years I have been medicated for it; I am presently on Celexa which has as a known side effect the reducttion of libido. My libido is fine, I still want sex, but I find orgasm extremely difficult. My wife can tell you there have been times I've cried in despair from not being able to reach it. Regardless of why I take the Celexa - pretend it's another drug with the same effects if you don't believe in anxiety disorder - the fact remains that I am medically limited from being able to reach orgasm. I'm lucky in that if I'm expecting to get laid I can skip the Celexa, but not everyone has that option.

I look forward to hearing Panache's response to my question about medication.

I need to clarify my statement about my abhorance of drugs, while I do absolutely abhor ILLEGAL drugs, I heartily endorse physician prescribed drugs for their obvious medicinal benefits. I also understand some of the undesireable side effectsof them.

As to my belief system that the more accepting of her/his role in life, the easier it is for them to C.O.M., I derive this belief based on my own experiences. I readily admit that while there are exceptions to every "rule of thumb, my personal experience is that "generally speaking" my statement holds true. It does not make a sub more or less "talented or commited", it just takes the right approach with that particular individual as we are all unique and beautiful in our own ways.