Trump formally files appeal of $365 million verdict, does NOT post required bond

[DeluxAuto]

I can declare my truck is worth a billion dollars and won't sell it for a penny less. It is perfectly legal for me to do so.

Did you really think that was a good or even decent analogy?

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Let’s disregard the fact that it serves as a private residence for the current owner, and that anyone with the kind of money it would take to purchase the property would not be inhibited from living there. I think we’re in agreement that it obviously would sell for many times more than the $18 million assessed value.

At best I give it ten times. ON a good day with a dumb business person, or one who can afford to loose money.

The court’s ruling highlights the difficulty in valuing unique parcels of real estate. The judge relied on the county assessor’s valuation. The assessors valuation is not based on a judgment of resale value (aka market value). It’s based on income generation.

Using income generation for assesment is not unique. It works well on hard to define valuations on property. It is used often since it's a relatively cheap in terms of studying a property to understand it's value.

In free markets, county assessors and judges don’t determine market value. Buyers, sellers, and lenders do. Free market capitalism is something the left both loathes and misunderstands.

Where do you come up with that? What the people were laughing about ( including myself) was Trump's self evaluation of 1 billion or more. Fuck you're even to chicken to throw out a valuation. I stand by my numbers of 150-200 million. I dare you to show why it would be higher than that?

 

[jomar]

All you have is hate. This fine by the court is indefensible in the United States. This is something that Putin or Xi might do to their enemies. This would be wrong if it happened to anyone in America, anyone. It violates the Constitution. It is a political corruption of the law and if left to stand New York is finished as the business capital of the United States. Mega investors are already leaving the state.

Fine. So link us up with how the verdict and fine is indefensible, violates the constitution and is political corruption. Please don’t reference your usual suspects.

 

[Lazaran]

https://www.politifact.com/factchec...rk-officials-didnt-value-mar-a-lago-at-18-mi/

BabyBoobs caught sharing a LIE and a grossly flawed analogy in an attempt at gaslighting about the legitimacy of the New York ruling in the corrupt orange traitor’s fraud case???

quelle surprise…



BabyBoobs

 

[dmallord]

Owners call value their assets at whatever value they want. I can declare my truck is worth a billion dollars and won't sell it for a penny less. It is perfectly legal for me to do so.

Finding a buyer who agrees is the only issue.

If only Trump were selling his property, however, it was and is not that simple. At least the AG in the City of NY says so - Trump committed business fraud, according to her. His inflated values rose to an egregious level, and she acted upon them.

Trump could have followed good business practices - declared a fair market value. Instead, he pushed the boundaries beyond common sense and is suffering because of it.

Now, he has a damning issue to deal with - he lied - will the appeals court agree with him or her over the matter?

He lied when he testified he had 650m liquid funds and now doesn't have the 454m to put up to make an appeal to the appellate court level. Thirty days is ticking... Not to mention the 83.3m to E. Jean Carroll that's hanging out there.

It's one thing to declare a hypothetical outrageous value, such as your truck value, but that's not a real-world matter. Donald Trump's false statements were of his own making, and he is caught up in a web of debts because of it.

 

[dmallord]

Do you actually read what you write? Biden has violated our constitution on so many levels and not to acknowledge it is a reflection of your total bias. You’re not interested in constitutional law, equal rights or equal protection under the law. Get Trump at all cost is not law. You and your ilk are an embarrassment to what it means to be an American. Lititia James should be disbarred.

Silly person. My total bias? Your reputation proceeds you.

Of course, I read and proofread it as well. I did acknowledge one of Biden's violations. Hell, I gave you the essential facts on Biden straight from the document you asked me to read even the paragraph about him possessing classfied info and sharing it. That's in the other thread.

The special counsel operated under the legal laws and within the Constitution as an officer of the court. The fact that the Republican didn't indict Biden isn't on me or shows I am biased.

I accept his decision - would have if it had been the other way.

YOU, on the otherhand are still screaming over the decision and proclaiming Trumps innocents in NY. That's your point of view not a judge's decision or ruling about the constitutionality of the decision. That's for the appeals process.

You cry 'Constitution!' Well, you damn well know that it has, is, and will always be a matter of interpretation. The Supreme Court is always picking away at it meaning and overturning things on some nitpicking perception or neuanced meaning reflected in what it 'originally' mean back a hundred years ago. So, yeah, keep crying about not believing in the 'Constitution' or the 'exact meaning of a sentence or two' quoted from it. The Supreme Court is full of lawyers arguing points and counterpoints over those meanings.

And neither you nor I can get a word in edgewise.

I'm in no position to attack or vilify the system as you are now. At some point, ALL should be resigned to believing justice was served. Sure, keep grumbling about it not being fair - but acknowledge that it IS resolved.

Citizen Trump can appeal. He has that right. I DO want him to have justice. I'd be tickled pink if was convicted on the appeals - no denying that.

 

[icanhelp1]

I’m perfectly fine with "Lititia" James being disbarred.

Whoever the fuck that is…



ineedhelp1

You’re a chicken fucker! I’d say you’re playing stupid but nah you’re not playing. People make typos all the time, most times it doesn’t detract from the argument. Petty!

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

At best I give it ten times. ON a good day with a dumb business person, or one who can afford to loose money.

Using income generation for assesment is not unique. It works well on hard to define valuations on property. It is used often since it's a relatively cheap in terms of studying a property to understand it's value.

Where do you come up with that? What the people were laughing about ( including myself) was Trump's self evaluation of 1 billion or more. Fuck you're even to chicken to throw out a valuation. I stand by my numbers of 150-200 million. I dare you to show why it would be higher than that?

My guess is in the same range as yours. And I’m not questioning the county assessor’s valuation. I’m pointing out that it’s a tax assessment, not a market valuation assessment. Very different than how a lender would approach the question. I’m doubtful of Trumps valuation but I’ve never been asked to loan him money. The banks that he did seek loans from accepted the applications.

 

[dkovic77]

You’re a chicken fucker! I’d say you’re playing stupid but nah you’re not playing. People make typos all the time, most times it doesn’t detract from the argument. Petty!

Compose your thoughts, proofread, then hit post reply.

Or are you STILL blaming the new site? At this point… it just shows your inability to adapt/learn which most of us could have told you years ago.

But that’s not news to you either.

Thanks for the opportunity as always.

 

[Bray123]

The valuation of office/apartment property in NY is relatively easy because there is so much of it and it changes hands regularly. Try building a castle in the Panamint mountains and putting a price on that, different matter.

Any NY realtor will use a simple equation to put a working figure from similar recent sales (floor area x $$$) and it'll be fairly accurate, like using Google maps to calculate a journey time. Auctions may vary the price by a tiny margin, but when someone adds half an acre to the footage in order to get a bank load they're crooked. The bank may be a sucker for accepting it, that doesn't alter the fact that they've been scammed.

 

[lovecraft68]

It's sad how many elderly people are sending this guy money to pay for his lawsuits.

But this is the same demographic who is constantly tricked into clicking on e-mail scams. I swear my mother gets herself in trouble once a week with those things.

 

[icanhelp1]

Silly person. My total bias? Your reputation proceeds you.

Of course, I read and proofread it as well. I did acknowledge one of Biden's violations. Hell, I gave you the essential facts on Biden straight from the document you asked me to read even the paragraph about him possessing classfied info and sharing it. That's in the other thread.

The special counsel operated under the legal laws and within the Constitution as an officer of the court. The fact that the Republican didn't indict Biden isn't on me or shows I am biased.

I accept his decision - would have if it had been the other way.

YOU, on the otherhand are still screaming over the decision and proclaiming Trumps innocents in NY. That's your point of view not a judge's decision or ruling about the constitutionality of the decision. That's for the appeals process.

You cry 'Constitution!' Well, you damn well know that it has, is, and will always be a matter of interpretation. The Supreme Court is always picking away at it meaning and overturning things on some nitpicking perception or neuanced meaning reflected in what it 'originally' mean back a hundred years ago. So, yeah, keep crying about not believing in the 'Constitution' or the 'exact meaning of a sentence or two' quoted from it. The Supreme Court is full of lawyers arguing points and counterpoints over those meanings.

And neither you nor I can get a word in edgewise.

I'm in no position to attack or vilify the system as you are now. At some point, ALL should be resigned to believing justice was served. Sure, keep grumbling about it not being fair - but acknowledge that it IS resolved.

Citizen Trump can appeal. He has that right. I DO want him to have justice. I'd be tickled pink if was convicted on the appeals - no denying that.

The valuation of office/apartment property in NY is relatively easy because there is so much of it and it changes hands regularly. Try building a castle in the Panamint mountains and putting a price on that, different matter.

Any NY realtor will use a simple equation to put a working figure from similar recent sales (floor area x $$$) and it'll be fairly accurate, like using Google maps to calculate a journey time. Auctions may vary the price by a tiny margin, but when someone adds half an acre to the footage in order to get a bank load they're crooked. The bank may be a sucker for accepting it, that doesn't alter the fact that they've been scammed.

Banks don’t give large loans without doing their due diligence. In the sham fraud trial the banks sided with Trump and would be willing to continue to work with Trump again. There are no victims in this fraud case. This is a politically motivated case, the whole world knows it. Letitia James should be disbarred and the judge thrown off the bench.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Owners call value their assets at whatever value they want. I can declare my truck is worth a billion dollars and won't sell it for a penny less. It is perfectly legal for me to do so.

Finding a buyer who agrees is the only issue.

And for the millionth time, that isn’t what Trump did.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Banks don’t give large loans without doing their due diligence. In the sham fraud trial the banks sided with Trump and would be willing to continue to work with Trump again. There are no victims in this fraud case. This is a politically motivated case, the whole world knows it. Letitia James should be disbarred and the judge thrown off the bench.

So again, who from the bank measured Trump’s NYC place and said it was 3x bigger than it actually is?

 

[dkovic77]

Banks don’t give large loans without doing their due diligence. In the sham fraud trial the banks sided with Trump and would be willing to continue to work with Trump again. There are no victims in this fraud case. This is a politically motivated case, the whole world knows it. Letitia James should be disbarred and the judge thrown off the bench.

And you, being the example of what it means to be both a sham and fraud…(so many countless examples here on the boards…)

How many times does the Cheeto need to be taken into court for you to accept that he is damaged goods? But still, you love him so much regardless?

That is more of the fraud here. You just can’t seem to accept (maybe it can be your new handle?) that part of it so you gotta double down- as does the rest of the “supporters.”

Guessing you missed the lessons in school to stories like “The emperor’s new clothes” and “the boy that cried wolf.” There are no new clothes on your guy and no matter how many times the boy wants to muddy the waters with distraction, the wolf will have his day.

Or is it you think the Cheeto IS the wolf in this scenario? Either way…these are your issues to contend with.

You can always “help” by keeping to yourself and maybe going back to Elementary school for a re-education. I don’t think there is a GED-like equivalent for basic fundamental things from Elementary, but I guess if you present your case to the current Principal at the elementary school where you might have attended before- they might pity you enough to accept your request for help.

Or, reach out to the principal who was there when you were- if they are still alive. They will surely have some solid life lessons for you.

Thanks again, this is always fun!

 

[Fuzzy1975]

I’m pointing out that it’s a tax assessment, not a market valuation assessment.

Correct, it a valuation for property tax.

Very different than how a lender would approach the question.

Different yes, but only in the time and effort to research other similar properties that have sold, either near to the area, or if there are none, then ones in the USA. The main issue with the potential sale price is the deed. It really limits what the property is worth. For example if it could be sold, and then turned into a real estate development, I'm 100% sure the sale price would be double what it would sell for under it's current designation.

I’m doubtful of Trumps valuation but I’ve never been asked to loan him money. The banks that he did seek loans from accepted the applications.

There is no doubt in my mind its not worth a billion. But that statement is completely within Trump's character. He's been overstating his worth for as long as I can remember.

 

[icanhelp1]

So again, who from the bank measured Trump’s NYC place and said it was 3x bigger than it actually is?

They ( the banks ) have their own internal assessment department and make decisions based on their own findings not the owners. All banks independently value/ assess outside of the owners assessment. Real estate value is what the market bears and banks take the current market conditions when making decisions.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

They ( the banks ) have their own internal assessment department and make decisions based on their own findings not the owners.

True

All banks independently value/ assess outside of the owners assessment.

No they don't. They do use third party assesments, paid for by either the purchaser ( cheapest option) or through the bank (expensive...very expensive). If you present your own third party evaluation, you sign legal documents to the accuracy of those documents.

Real estate value is what the market bears and banks take the current market conditions when making decisions.

True, but banks go more on the valuations. Try building/buying multi million dollar buildings and see how your thoughts on this line up to reality.

 

[Bray123]

They ( the banks ) have their own internal assessment department and make decisions based on their own findings not the owners. All banks independently value/ assess outside of the owners assessment. Real estate value is what the market bears and banks take the current market conditions when making decisions.

Doesn't alter the fact that Trump added half an acre to a NY apartment. The bank was scammed.

 

[icanhelp1]

And you, being the example of what it means to be both a sham and fraud…(so many countless examples here on the boards…)

How many times does the Cheeto need to be taken into court for you to accept that he is damaged goods? But still, you love him so much regardless?

That is more of the fraud here. You just can’t seem to accept (maybe it can be your new handle?) that part of it so you gotta double down- as does the rest of the “supporters.”

Guessing you missed the lessons in school to stories like “The emperor’s new clothes” and “the boy that cried wolf.” There are no new clothes on your guy and no matter how many times the boy wants to muddy the waters with distraction, the wolf will have his day.

Or is it you think the Cheeto IS the wolf in this scenario? Either way…these are your issues to contend with.

You can always “help” by keeping to yourself and maybe going back to Elementary school for a re-education. I don’t think there is a GED-like equivalent for basic fundamental things from Elementary, but I guess if you present your case to the current Principal at the elementary school where you might have attended before- they might pity you enough to accept your request for help.

Or, reach out to the principal who was there when you were- if they are still alive. They will surely have some solid life lessons for you.

Thanks again, this is always fun!

You talk too much! You scribble a lot but nothing comes out.

I don’t base my opinions on emotion like you. It’s not about Trump it’s about wielding the power of justice in a fair and equitable manner. Equal protection under the law/ equal application of the law. Most legal charges against Trump are based on emotion and hatred for Trump not in law. If Trump wasn’t running these indictments would never have happened.

Adhominen is not an argument.

 

[icanhelp1]

True

No they don't. They do use third party assesments, paid for by either the purchaser ( cheapest option) or through the bank (expensive...very expensive). If you present your own third party evaluation, you sign legal documents to the accuracy of those documents.

True, but banks go more on the valuations. Try building/buying multi million dollar buildings and see how your thoughts on this line up to reality.

I agree, a bank can use an outside specialist to evaluate real estate but again that’s the bank doing their own due diligence. The purchaser will do their own assessment along with the lender but in the final analysis the bank has the last say.

 

[icanhelp1]

Doesn't alter the fact that Trump added half an acre to a NY apartment. The bank was scammed.

The banks weren’t scammed. They sided with Trump and would do business with him again. There was no victim.

 

[ishtat]

It now seems that the most likely next stage is that Trump may fail to obtain the required Bond. The next formal stage would be a request from Letitia James to Barbara Jones the Trump Organisation Monitor to identify where and when she can provide the necessary funds to meet the verdict. That would require the Monitor to identify all of the Trump organisations assets and their values net of encumbrances (loans etc)

BUT those loans are already almost certainly a major problem to Trump. Major loans usually have all sorts of contingency conditions attached to them and that will commonly include the right of a lender to call in the total loan as soon as any malfeasance is alleged/found by any competent jurisdiction (the court). These would likely have been triggered either by the fraud decision, or sooner if that was at the (likely) discretion of the lender entities. Thus the total amount owed by Trump on the two major cases + the loans could be many millions more than the relatively modest half a Billion on the two decided cases (Fraud and Carrol)

It should not take too long for the Monitor to calculate Trumps capacity or incapacity to pay all the creditors and whether there will be sufficient funds. It is possible that the Monitor may find that there are insufficient funds to pay all creditors in which case liquidation of all the Trump debtor entities may be an option. The chances of liquidation of the Trump organization before the election are probably higher than a criminal conviction.

 

[DeluxAuto]

There was no victim.

Does there have to be a victim to be a crime? Making an illegal left turn is illegal but there is no victim.

 

[ishtat]

Does there have to be a victim to be a crime? Making an illegal left turn is illegal but there is no victim.

There were victims. Trump got loans and at better terms precisely because of his dis-honesty. Therefore both that money and the terms were unavailable to other would be borrowers because of his fraudulent actions. The "no victims" argument is bullshit.