U.S. politics isolation tank

[JMohegan]

Here's the thing: Romney is not really a businessman in the old-fashioned we-make-stuff-and-our-workers-help-grow-the-economy mold. He's a financier-accountant who made enough money that he can pretend he's a business guy like the Fords and the Watsons (IBM) who went before him. Romney made his money in the same way that Tony Soprano did, but he had better lawyers and used fewer guns. He's a loan shark with an MBA. He doesn't really have the skills that most people think he has - the skills of running a large enterprise that employs thousands and thousands of workers and that makes stuff or does important things in the economy. He's an illusion of business-ness

Yup. Exactly.

I'd say the most terrifying thing about Romney is that he conflates the personal success of guys like him with success for the American economy overall. I think he genuinely believes that trickle down shit.

I think Romney is basically being programmed with a program he doesn't really know how to run. He may be a Mormon, but he's managed to rise in Mass. which is definitely a more moderate kind of climate than the tail that's wagging the republican dog at the moment - he obviously knows how to do the pragmatic necessities of government - even people on the left were pretty impressed with the health care solutions in the state before the polarization of a POTUS run.

I don't think he's a complete moron only concerned about the ultra rich any more than the Dems are at this point when it comes to policy, let's not get TOO carried away on fanfare for the common man and follow the money still eh? He is just a man who does NOT know how to give everyone a hug. You know if you hugged Mitt he'd be that guy barely doing it pulling his penis away from you uncomfortably at all costs first and foremost. So you get the 47 percent soundbite, which IS how I sound too when I'm being wonky and in problem solving mode, which is not the right context for a dinner. This guy just has NO social acumen, and all the awkwardness of a moderate who can compromise playing a part he's not typecast for. He's convinced his wife is charming, not terrifying, so he's trying to be like her.

I agree, he's not a moron. But his problems go way beyond social awkwardness.

He's a bubble boy, someone whose whole life has been encased in such privilege that he can't fathom what the realities are for folks outside that bubble. So, for example, he tells a room full of college kids they should take a risk and start a business... with $20,000 borrowed from their parents.

FDR was a bubble boy, too. But FDR was listening.

Sure, Romney's willingness to go along with MA universal healthcare seems pragmatic and promising. But who, or which group, specifically, could be counted on to put forth comparable ideas at the federal level in a Romney administration?

 

[Sir_Winston54]

:: FACEPALM!!! ::

Va. GOP orders affiliate to remove offensive Obama photos

RICHMOND — Virginia Republican Party officials on Tuesday ordered their Mecklenburg County affiliate to remove photos portraying President Obama as a witch doctor, a caveman and a thug from its Facebook page.

The altered photos have been on the Mecklenburg County Republican Committee’s page for months but drew attention outside the rural southwestern enclave after a luncheon event this week with Republican Senate candidate George Allen.

=-=-=-=-=

R. Wallace “Wally” Hudson, chairman of the committee, was surprised to hear from a reporter that anyone had taken offense. “If that group is that sensitive, I’m sorry, they’re just not human,” he said, chuckling. “It’s not American. If they’ve got a problem with it, we’re not going to change what we do.”

He didn’t seem any more inclined to take the state party’s feelings into account when told in a subsequent interview what Mullins had said. “They can do what they want,” he said, chuckling again. “I’m waiting for the phone call.” The images were still up as of Tuesday night.

Hudson said he posted most of the images himself, after coming across them online. He said critics were playing “the race card.” “We know our regular readers, who are good conservatives, they’re gonna get a kick out of it,” said Hudson, 55, a retired airline flight crew member who became chairman in May. “The rest of them, if they don’t want to see it, they don’t have to look at it. We don’t consider any of it racist. . . . I’m not ashamed of it. I mean, good God, you should have seen some of the images they did of George [W.] Bush. It’s freedom of speech.”​

There's more in the WaPo article, linked (as usual) through the headline above.

As for me, I'll have to agree with Daffy:

 

[JMohegan]

Hudson said he posted most of the images himself, after coming across them online. He said critics were playing “the race card.” “We know our regular readers, who are good conservatives, they’re gonna get a kick out of it,” said Hudson, 55, a retired airline flight crew member who became chairman in May.

Statements like that make my friends who are actual conservatives furious. The coopting of "conservative" as synonymous with willfully ignorant, racist prick.



Also from Virginia, though from a different perspective entirely - my favorite clip of the week.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/charlie-mahtesian/2012/09/webb-drops-the-hammer-on-romney-136858.html

 

[midwestyankee]

Statements like that make my friends who are actual conservatives furious. The coopting of "conservative" as synonymous with willfully ignorant, racist prick.



Also from Virginia, though from a different perspective entirely - my favorite clip of the week.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/charlie-mahtesian/2012/09/webb-drops-the-hammer-on-romney-136858.html

Webb really did drop the hammer in that few minutes, didn't he?

 

[Sir_Winston54]

Statements like that make my friends who are actual conservatives furious. The coopting of "conservative" as synonymous with willfully ignorant, racist prick.



Also from Virginia, though from a different perspective entirely - my favorite clip of the week.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/charlie-mahtesian/2012/09/webb-drops-the-hammer-on-romney-136858.html

Webb really did drop the hammer in that few minutes, didn't he?

Hammer? Hell, he dropped most of the toolbox in that little speech!

And as a vet who's been screwed by the last three or four administrations... thank you, sir.

 

[midwestyankee]

This is quite cool. The cast of The West Wing got together to make a campaign ad, in which they spoof their old show in charming ways and also make a contribution to civil civics.

 

[njlauren]

Romney isn't stupid, but his problems are a lot more then simply lacking charisma or warmth. As others have pointed out, the real problem is a lot of his experience and background, other then being governor of Mass which is not the same thing as running the country, isn't applicable. The whole nonsense about businessmen running the government on business principles is fallacious, because the government is not the same thing as being head of a business. Businesses operate, first of all, on a relatively small scale, they are focused primarily on their own business and in giving a return to the owner (proprietors/shareholders), and as such it is a pretty narrow focus. Sure, there is a certain amount of caring outside the company, if the economy is crappy so will business, but they don't worry about the macro issues as much, they don't have to worry about blacks in inner city LA or immigrants or rural farmers or whatever...the idea of running the government like a business sounds great, but the reality is that the methods used in running a business don't necessarily work in government..on top of everything else, in a company the CEO is head of everything and his/her word is pretty much law, don't go along, and be fired; in the government, with the agencies that run the various branches, you don't just 'fire' people, presidential appointees have very little leverage other then to cajole and move the workers in the right direction. You also don't browbeat congress either, something that all presidents learn fast.

And in Romney's case it is worse, because the kind of business Romney ran was not a mainstream business, it is pretty rarified, it is designed to pull off quick turnarounds to give large returns to well off investors, it is a bubble.

And yes, the problem with both Romney and Ryan is they really believe everything they had come from themselves and their hard work, and it has left them not comprehending that not everyone grows up as they do. Both of them are scions of well off families, who gave them a lot (and there is nothing wrong with that, every family tries to do that, to the best of their ability, my skills and earning power have meant my son has enjoyed benefits someone growing up in the family of a guy working in a steel mill wouldn't have), but what they don't recognize is how much that meant in propelling them forward. Romney went to some of the most elite schools in this country, where he got to know and network with a lot of well heeled kids and their families, he went to elite schools, and when he got out and founded Bain capital he had networks out there, both his own and his families, that allowed him to found Bain capital (think he didn't tap into Daddy's pool of well off people for potential investors, in a company where you need several million to get in the door?). He also doesn't quite realize that he and anne might have started out like many young couples, and didn't live off the family wealth, that he also had the knowledge that if he tried something and it failed, he wouldn't be homeless, he wouldn't have to worry about health care, or later on if his kids would have food or clothing. Someone from modest means who scrapes up 20k to found a business if they fail knows they will have little to fall back on (might be able to move in with dad and mom, if so lucky), which makes it a lot harder to gamble on success. Romney knew that even if he built several failed businesses, his family had his back, and that matters, and ryan is much the same way.

Ryan is the more dangerous, because he really believes the ayn randian idea that if you make it, you deserve it and everyone else who isn't as fortunate is a parasite and such. I mean, how stupid does he think people are when he says he worked at a Mc D's as a teen? Does he think that really showed how far he has come, considering he worked there as a teen to earn pocket money (which is commendable), does he think that means he understands the plight of those who work those jobs because it is all they have? Does he realize that while working there he had access to a prime educational experience, thanks to his families wealth, that was what got him to do what he did? Reminds me of the satire of Horatio alger, where the industrious kid finds a matchbook and sells it for 2 cents, with the 2 cents he buys some other matchbooks and makes 4 cents, then turns that into 10cents, a dollar.....and when he got to 10 dollars, his rich grandfather died and left him an inheritance of 1 million..

The other problem with Romney's business is they involved speed, they weren't interested, like a Berkshire Hathaway, with running companies for long periods of time, it is a short term business focused around finding a target they feel is undervalued or otherwise has value to it no one is seeing, buying it/taking it private, then selling it off or spinning it off publicly and profiting the difference. Among other things, it doesn't care about the long term, something in government they should be worried about, if they get a company boosted up and sell it, they don't care if the methods they used are sacrificing the future for today, that is someone else's problem, business cannot be like that.

Speaking as a genuine cynic, I don't expect miracles from anyone and with government I sort of hope it is like the kid who takes apart the alarm clock, that in the end things are working at all. The problem with Romney seems to be in his desire to make himself look good to whatever group he thinks will get him elected, he doesn't bother having ideas of his own, his economic 'plan' seems to be a retread of tax cuts, fiurther cuts in capital gains, and tea party mumbo jumbo about 'cutting for growth' to get out of the debt problems (basically another form of supply side economics; cut taxes, and the stimulous will generate larger revenue because of economic activity that gets taxed, tea party is gut government spending and the economy will thrive and generate tax revenue that will balance the budget....and neither works on paper or in reality). He speaks platitudes, afraid to say the truth, among which that we cannot afford military spending on weapons systems whose prime reason seems to be providing jobs ot certain districts.....he talks about balancing the budget but also talks about increasing defense spending without new taxes....just doesn't add up.

Unlike Dick Cheney, I don't think Romney is evil or even particularly power hungry, I just think he doesn't have a clue of the reality of most people's lives.

 

[Netzach]

I'm talking about electability, not the multiple policy-based reasons I'm not going to be pulling the lever for him. I'm talking about the knee jerk "feel" things that actually, sadly, matter. Matter more than anyone even thinking to the point of Bain.

If/when the GOP loses, I'm going to be pretty sure that most of it is this dumb hind-brain "something's off" that Mitt's robot presence telegraphs to anyone with a human brain, and the fact that people haven't heard any reassurance of how things are going to be, just a scary picture of the Obacalypse being waved at them 24/7. Yes, a life of privilege behind the shield of a religion wielding more power and money than it knows what to do with is the source of this disconnect.

CLEARLY that's not Mitt's ONLY problem. It's just, in my opinion, his major problem with most people. And what lauren said about his inability to come across as genuine anything- that's another one. Let's face it, there's no way to seriously buy him as anything but a moderate (in this bizzaro world anyway) based on his MA record, but there's no way to buy him as anything but a dangerous unhinged lunatic based on the people he's got in his camp during the campaign, and the nature of the campaign itself, so masterfully bad, you think it's being thrown.

So the base isn't into it because he's a Mormon and they generally believe that there are FEMA death camps on the horizon for them no matter what - and no one else is that into it, because there's nothing to run on but fear and dissatisfaction. Only a minority of the population, even in swing states, likes paranoia as a lifestyle choice THAT much.

I'm just increasingly of the opinion that talking about regulating and closing loopholes and keeping the dry ass plunder of the country by its financial sector from ever happening again while doing 1/3 of the work necessary to actually do that, versus saying you are opposed to doing any of that work, pretty much have the same result at the end of the day.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I thinking about voting Green, not that my vote means dick in NY anyway.

I'm pretty sure Obama is going to win and then "go to China" and sign that Grand Bargain slashing medicare and SS that the baggers were too stupid to accept last year.

 

[Netzach]

I thinking about voting Green, not that my vote means dick in NY anyway.

I'm pretty sure Obama is going to win and then "go to China" and sign that Grand Bargain slashing medicare and SS that the baggers were too stupid to accept last year.

Yeah, my addendum.

"I'm just increasingly of the opinion that talking about regulating and closing loopholes and keeping the dry ass plunder of the country by its financial sector from ever happening again while doing 1/3 of the work necessary to actually do that and going (oops they cockblocked me, the bastards!) versus saying you are opposed to doing any of that work, pretty much have the same result at the end of the day"

Unfortunately I kind of have to vote a straight DFL ticket or die here, might as well Obama at the top of the ticket.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Yeah, my addendum.

"I'm just increasingly of the opinion that talking about regulating and closing loopholes and keeping the dry ass plunder of the country by its financial sector from ever happening again while doing 1/3 of the work necessary to actually do that and going "oops they cockblocked me, the bastards!" versus saying you are opposed to doing any of that work, pretty much have the same result at the end of the day"

Unfortunately I kind of have to vote a straight DFL ticket or die here, might as well Obama at the top of the ticket.

Liberals are on a sugar high right now, because the spectacle of the teabag party going down in flames, and the wailing and gnashing of teeth in the outer darkness, are so entertaining.

I think there's going to be a serious morning after comedown when Obama starts to put his program into effect. He flat out states it in that 5-point campaign ad, that cutting the deficit is one of his top jobs.

 

[Netzach]

Liberals are on a sugar high right now, because the spectacle of the teabag party going down in flames, and the wailing and gnashing of teeth in the outer darkness, are so entertaining.

I think there's going to be a serious morning after comedown when Obama starts to put his program into effect. He flat out states it in that 5-point campaign ad, that cutting the deficit is one of his top jobs.

It'll be interesting. Even though it's a second term, how the house and senate shake out are going to matter, it's not like the sunshine and unicorn handouts start.

And I'm peeing my pants with terror at what's probably the worst SCOTUS in the modern era - that's still out there.

I had this fantasy that the day of term one the most important thing was going to be clamping down on whatever let this happen and getting everyone back to work. Period.

It's STILL not.

I feel like I owe it to myself to ask how much WORSE off I'm going to be, in reality, in practical reality not the NPR Romneytron projections, if pepsi is the flavor of the year and not coke. If we made it through Reagan we can make it through anything.

 

[midwestyankee]

I feel like I owe it to myself to ask how much WORSE off I'm going to be, in reality, in practical reality not the NPR Romneytron projections, if pepsi is the flavor of the year and not coke. If we made it through Reagan we can make it through anything.

I'm not so sure that the Pepsi wouldn't actually poison us, or at least make our teeth rot a helluva lot faster. We made it through Reagan in large part because his economic actions actually worked for a while. But they also spurred an increase in the income inequality. Further, Romney/Ryan plan to simply repeat the Reagan approach: drop taxes and then drop taxes because, well, lower taxes. The thing is, fighting the last war almost never wins the present one. We don't have double-digit inflation right now and we certainly don't have the same high marginal tax rates that Reagan was able to attack. It's a different economic landscape but Romney wants to hire the same landscaping crew with the same worn-out plans. We don't need pink flamingoes on our lawns in 2013.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

Liberals are on a sugar high right now, because the spectacle of the teabag party going down in flames, and the wailing and gnashing of teeth in the outer darkness, are so entertaining.

I think there's going to be a serious morning after comedown when Obama starts to put his program into effect. He flat out states it in that 5-point campaign ad, that cutting the deficit is one of his top jobs.

Yeah, I know. But I don't view it as "Now we'll get all the Christmas presents we always wanted." I view it as, the fucktards nominated the ghost of Ayn Rand to fill the slot currently held by the ghost of FDR, and people said, um... this has all the appeal of a beige Zune.™ So I'm happy, mostly, just that the Tea army appears to have been repelled at Gettysburg.

And, btw, Krugman is warning that to jump in with a grand bargain right away would not only be a betrayal, but incredibly politically stupid. Don't do it, Barack!

I AM going to enjoy the knife fighting if (can't quite type "when" yet) Mitt loses. *Rubs hands*. Will the teabaggers split? If so, will that take enough votes to cripple the GOP for a few cycles? Third parties always get absorbed into the majors when their ideas are co-opted, but it will certainly be fun.

Beware Jeb Bush in 2016.

.

I feel like I owe it to myself to ask how much WORSE off I'm going to be, in reality, in practical reality not the NPR Romneytron projections, if pepsi is the flavor of the year and not coke. If we made it through Reagan we can make it through anything.

Oh yes. And your comment about SCOTUS should make everyone pee our collective pants. Ginsburg retirement with Obama re-elected preserves the status quo. Can you IMAGINE if Mitt "I'll be whatever you want" Romney appointed the tea of the week to that slot? And there's still a chance that Scalia may not last. He's ornery, but he will be 80 at the end of a 2nd Obama term. That could end up being the biggest coup of this election.

Also, I didn't respond to your comments about Mitt being not a social being. I agree. He's just not made for backslapping, and gauging when to say what. (I had to laugh at the "pulling his penis away as he hugged you" comment. He's the classic "church hugger." Pat, pat, pat.

But I do think he is a businessman, in the sense that he will Make Money for His People. Maybe it screws you people over here, but so be it. Doing whatever it takes is his skill set. That's why he could function in Mass., or in the Olympics. He's a shapeshifter: put him with the Dems (albeit wealthy businessy Dems) for a few years, at a luxury resort, and he emerges as a wealthy Democratic problem solver, a la Mass. He's political and personal Play-Doh.

I have wondered how much of this, if any, goes back to his LDS upbringing: I am NOT an expert on Mormons, but from the books I've read, I do know that you are rewarded in that culture for doing what you are expected to do, advancing the goals of the organization, within the narrow norms, in the most responsible-appearing way possible.

 

[intothewoods]

This is totally not a big deal but yesterday I was reminded of the David Gergen talk that used to go on around here (or on the other thread?) and so I had to comment.

So, David Gergen's big comment after the debate was that Obama flopped because no one has talked to the president like that in the past four years, and Obama didn't know what to do.

Really? This has been a pretty contentious four years, and Obama is aware of his detractors. His State of the Union speech was interrupted! I think Gergen is totally wrong. Obama was told to play it safe -- he's up, why risk it, and let Romney fuck himself over. Only Romney upped his game and Obama was totally rambling and not sharp or concise.

Another thought about the debate -- did Romney really kick that much ass? I thought he certainly performed well, and Obama did not, but I feel like a few people said it and then it became sort of the meme of the night before the night was even over. But maybe I'm just biased.

Ok, one more thing -- I suppose it must just be me, but I feel like this is the first presidential debate I've ever seen where I learned absolutely NOTHING new (substantively) about the candidates. My evaluation of the debate is based solely on speaking style, comfort, etc. Romeny said nothing new, and neither did Obama, and I already know where I stand substantively. A big reason why I don't think this is a big enough game changer -- not that many undecideds.

 

[Netzach]

This is totally not a big deal but yesterday I was reminded of the David Gergen talk that used to go on around here (or on the other thread?) and so I had to comment.

So, David Gergen's big comment after the debate was that Obama flopped because no one has talked to the president like that in the past four years, and Obama didn't know what to do.

Really? This has been a pretty contentious four years, and Obama is aware of his detractors. His State of the Union speech was interrupted! I think Gergen is totally wrong. Obama was told to play it safe -- he's up, why risk it, and let Romney fuck himself over. Only Romney upped his game and Obama was totally rambling and not sharp or concise.

Another thought about the debate -- did Romney really kick that much ass? I thought he certainly performed well, and Obama did not, but I feel like a few people said it and then it became sort of the meme of the night before the night was even over. But maybe I'm just biased.

Ok, one more thing -- I suppose it must just be me, but I feel like this is the first presidential debate I've ever seen where I learned absolutely NOTHING new (substantively) about the candidates. My evaluation of the debate is based solely on speaking style, comfort, etc. Romeny said nothing new, and neither did Obama, and I already know where I stand substantively. A big reason why I don't think this is a big enough game changer -- not that many undecideds.

Gergen is an opportunistic whore. Usually he manages to be smooth at least, and fairly insightful for CNN standards, used to be on PBS. Remember, he worked for Nixon, Regan, Ford and Clinton. So right now, ratings, create a dramatic narrative, out of the least dramatic debate ever.

I think the Romney "win" is an overhyped mini bounce, but I'm reading too much Nate Silver maybe.

But team Barry better play ball.

 

[midwestyankee]

I like the whole "this very energetic guy came on stage claiming to be Romney" approach that team Barry is using now. And was I seeing things, or was there a story in the paper this morning that yesterday Romney said his whole "47%" thing was "all wrong?" This is the same guy who backed himself into a corner with it by defending himself again and again, saying that he'd merely expressed himself inarticulately. And now it's "all wrong?" Give me a break.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

The only thing trending on Twitter about the debate the day after was Big Bird.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

Ugh. The morning after.

Also, a question: Is John Sununu the OFFICIAL dickweed of the Romney campaign, or is more of just an affectionate, honorary dickweedishness?

 

[midwestyankee]

Ugh. The morning after.

Also, a question: Is John Sununu the OFFICIAL dickweed of the Romney campaign, or is more of just an affectionate, honorary dickweedishness?

John Sununu is the Official Dickweed of New England.

 

[gypsy*seer]

John Sununu is the Official Dickweed of New England.

Seconded.

 

[intothewoods]

Gergen is an opportunistic whore. Usually he manages to be smooth at least, and fairly insightful for CNN standards, used to be on PBS. Remember, he worked for Nixon, Regan, Ford and Clinton. So right now, ratings, create a dramatic narrative, out of the least dramatic debate ever.

I think the Romney "win" is an overhyped mini bounce, but I'm reading too much Nate Silver maybe.

But team Barry better play ball.

I couldn't believe he said - now you've got a horse race. I mean, come on. You know it's a problem when James Carville is the voice of reason. Carville said, hey, good night for the Republicans, but probably not quite a game changer.

The jobs numbers helped Obama, but he needs to really show up for the next debate.

Biden/Ryan is going to be nuts.

 

[Netzach]

I couldn't believe he said - now you've got a horse race. I mean, come on. You know it's a problem when James Carville is the voice of reason. Carville said, hey, good night for the Republicans, but probably not quite a game changer.

The jobs numbers helped Obama, but he needs to really show up for the next debate.

Biden/Ryan is going to be nuts.

God, they want that thing to be watched and rewatched don't they?

It's true, when the biggest meme is Big Bird you have a problem.

 

[midwestyankee]

God, they want that thing to be watched and rewatched don't they?

It's true, when the biggest meme is Big Bird you have a problem.

My Twitter feed was jammed with crazy Big Bird jokes all day Thursday and Friday. Best one yet: Oscar the Grouch won't have any trouble finding work. He'll get a gig as an on-screen personality at Fox News.

We won't really know until early next week just how much - if at all - the debate changed public opinion of the race. I'm loving the way the Prez is handling the fallout from the debate from the stump since Wednesday and I have a feeling that he'll have a lot more energy the next time he takes the stage.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

Did Romney cheat in the debate? What I'm hearing/seeing is that they weren't supposed to bring notes into the debate, and Romney may have done so.

DailyKos shows the video here. Watch the first 11-12 seconds.