What do you do if your sub is a coward?

[devoted lilgirl]

I would say that in play I have to be pushed past when I say my safe word....my brain jumps ahead of me and goes into all the what if's and I fold and say it....so He waits for me to start adding to it, "No, Really, Seriously, I mean it" Cause we have found I can take much more than I think I can...of course he seems to know how far he can take me too...though a few times in the very beginning, I would throw his mood by protesting too early, and that feeling of failing HIM, was even worse than just bearing with it and taking the punishment he wanted to give me...

I have more that I need to be taught by him obviously, and must learn first to trust him to do that...

 

[landcruisergal]

I'm no help really.

Cant really offer any advice, as I haven't used a safeword, nor had a beating I thought brought me close to doing so, yet.
However I can report that the more aroused I am, and the more pain I take.
I reach that sweet point where its all blurred and pleasure/pain/pleasure/pain and all good.
All sensation, all his touch, be it soft or hard. Either him or me bringing me to the edge of orgasm and then resuming the flogging...
If I get all snotty its from tears of sexual frustration. A beating eventually has me grinning like a fool.( must be that endorphin effect)
His voice like a mantra, telling me how I am his, how hot I look with marks all over me,how good I am being, how he is going to take me after this, telling me to lift my butt, spread them wider," show me slut". He never raises his voice.Lowers it to whisper in my ear even.
Ah dammit. Now I need a cold shower.When can I come over and break your dishes?

 

[His_pita]

Cant really offer any advice, as I haven't used a safeword, nor had a beating I thought brought me close to doing so, yet.
However I can report that the more aroused I am, and the more pain I take.
I reach that sweet point where its all blurred and pleasure/pain/pleasure/pain and all good.
All sensation, all his touch, be it soft or hard. Either him or me bringing me to the edge of orgasm and then resuming the flogging...
If I get all snotty its from tears of sexual frustration. A beating eventually has me grinning like a fool.( must be that endorphin effect)
His voice like a mantra, telling me how I am his, how hot I look with marks all over me,how good I am being, how he is going to take me after this, telling me to lift my butt, spread them wider," show me slut". He never raises his voice.Lowers it to whisper in my ear even.
Ah dammit. Now I need a cold shower.When can I come over and break your dishes?

Mmmm that is what I want!!

 

[landcruisergal]

Mmmm that is what I want!!

Just happy that my PYL is a sadist, who loves to bring out the painslut in me.

 

[Singularity]

Dangerous Territory

The worst part is, after over a year of whupping her ass, I have a pretty good sense of when enough is enough. For a while I was ignoring her safewords because of how frivolously she used them and things always seemed to turn out ok. Well she's been pissing me off recently and she's well due for a beating, but we've on this new "respect the red" kick and I just know she is going to chicken out and ruin the experience for both of us.

To me, any suggestion that you would seriously consider violating (and yes, I use that word knowing that it carries a more loaded meaning than 'ignore') is heresy. There are enough examples of how bad things can get when there is a lack of respect and trust, that to suggest that you know better than she does as to when to use her safeword sets a dangerous precedent for others who might not be as knowledgeable as you are with regard to your sub.

'curious' offered some excellent advice. But to condone violating your sub's safeword, even when you are confident she doesn't really mean it, suggests to everyone else that it is OK to do so in their situations, too. And that is so very, very wrong.

I am very sensitive to this subject because of a very recent, and very painful incident, where a dear friend of mine got 'punished' by a beast of a man who called himself a "Master.'

She safeworded three times - and was told to shut up. And then she was gagged to prevent her from using it again while he mocked her.

By the time she was rescued - and it required a physical fight to get her away from this monster - she was damaged beyond words.

He dislocated her shoulder - and knew that he had done it, and didn't even care about that.

He whipped and caned her so badly that he almost broke her tailbone - she has incredible bruises almost two weeks later.

And he scarred her back so horribly that she will most likely wear those scars for the rest of her life.

Not to mention the emotional damage, which will last for a very long time.


You may think you know your sub better, Marquis, and you probably do. But either find someone else, or make whatever other changes you need to make to make things work for the two of you. But, goddamn it, do NOT violate her safeword. Or imply to others that there are situations where it is OK to do that.

You know better than that.

If you want to be a leader, and a mentor, act like one.

There are too many other beasts out there like the one I described who will point to your words as justifcation for the horrors they commit in the name of BDSM.

Please do not encourage them like this.

 

[kayte]

To me, any suggestion that you would seriously consider violating (and yes, I use that word knowing that it carries a more loaded meaning than 'ignore') is heresy. There are enough examples of how bad things can get when there is a lack of respect and trust, that to suggest that you know better than she does as to when to use her safeword sets a dangerous precedent for others who might not be as knowledgeable as you are with regard to your sub.

'curious' offered some excellent advice. But to condone violating your sub's safeword, even when you are confident she doesn't really mean it, suggests to everyone else that it is OK to do so in their situations, too. And that is so very, very wrong.

I am very sensitive to this subject because of a very recent, and very painful incident, where a dear friend of mine got 'punished' by a beast of a man who called himself a "Master.'

She safeworded three times - and was told to shut up. And then she was gagged to prevent her from using it again while he mocked her.

By the time she was rescued - and it required a physical fight to get her away from this monster - she was damaged beyond words.

He dislocated her shoulder - and knew that he had done it, and didn't even care about that.

He whipped and caned her so badly that he almost broke her tailbone - she has incredible bruises almost two weeks later.

And he scarred her back so horribly that she will most likely wear those scars for the rest of her life.

Not to mention the emotional damage, which will last for a very long time.


You may think you know your sub better, Marquis, and you probably do. But either find someone else, or make whatever other changes you need to make to make things work for the two of you. But, goddamn it, do NOT violate her safeword. Or imply to others that there are situations where it is OK to do that.

You know better than that.

If you want to be a leader, and a mentor, act like one.

There are too many other beasts out there like the one I described who will point to your words as justifcation for the horrors they commit in the name of BDSM.

Please do not encourage them like this.

Thank you Singularity ~ It is a violation if a safe word isn't respected. No exception.

 

[Singularity]

Get Away From Him Now

Your words are so very disturbing, his-pita.

I have no real life experience yet to really comment on this. But, my Dom told me that when it's going to be punishment I won't get to use my safeword. He will decide for me when I have had enough punishment. Might that work for you? I think everyone had good ideas on making her really think about why she is doing this by making her prove she is right in wanting her safeword.

The bedrock foundation of trust that all subs need to have with their Master or Mistress has to be based on SSC - Safe, Sane, and Consensual. What you have sounds like the prelude to abuse - and more. Your situation may be something entirely different from what your words imply, but the words themselves are a clear red flag of danger.

The woman I referenced in my earlier post is a novice, who thought she had a safe, and honorable Master. She learned a very cruel lesson that he was a fraud, an abuser, and a thug. What you are speaking of so casually here is a recipe for disaster. For him to so openly and casually tell you that you won't be permitted to safeword during a 'punishment' is an open invitation for him to hurt you - and hurt you badly.

Anyone who violates his or her sub's safeword not only violates the sub, that perosn violates and besmirches all of us as well. We suffer the consequences of that violation, too. Our honor and respect is called into question.

Those who only need a small amount of validation and encouragement to rationalize and justify their dishonorable actions need only look to people like Marquis, the moderator of this forum of all people, to give them their hunting license.

My friend is terrified now of ever finding another Master who will truly respect her, and not abuse her. She talks now of how Masters don't really believe in safewords, and that it is all a con, and something to get the sub to put herself under his control and to draw her in until it is too late.

Those who stand by and condone, or fail to call out those who act like this, are as guilty as those who treat safewords like mere currency, to be bargained away or stolen.

There are no exceptions for this - and no excuses.

 

[DVS]

Youth and wisdom...opposites

 

[Thrall_67]

Definition of Safeword..........

SAFEWORD - the fine line of division between having a good time and committing a crime

 

[Marquis]

Guys, I want to thank you all for your insight and support.

After carefully considering your comments it is obvious that occasionally ignoring your subs' safeword under special circumstances is ok. Thank you for clearing this up for me.

 

[kayte]

Guys, I want to thank you all for your insight and support.

After carefully considering your comments it is obvious that occasionally ignoring your subs' safeword under special circumstances is ok. Thank you for clearing this up for me.

No Exceptions for a SAFEWORD!

 

[Singularity]

And now we get comedy.

This is not a comedy show, bozo. So many others are in thrall to your post-count and your drop-dead good looks and your most-assuredly really big dick, but you are one seriously misguided little boy.

After carefully considering your comments it is obvious that occasionally ignoring your subs' safeword under special circumstances is ok. Thank you for clearing this up for me.

Real people get really, really hurt by those who live by the words and the philosophy you preach with your blithe, lighthearted and oh-so-dangerous words. Words have meaning and they can have consequences, often far beyond those you can imagine. So cut the crap and start acting like a man instead of a boy.

If you have any sense of decency and honor, you'd simply apologize and make amends. Making light of this is so very, very wrong.

I didn't vote on the poll about whether you should remain as moderator. But I'll tell you now, Marquis, that you should resign. Now. You are too immature to be in a position of such responsibility.

You have no business being in any way in charge of this place.

 

[incubus'_sub]

Marquis, for what it's worth, I seriously doubt that this girl is in mortal danger because you ignore her cries of "wolf", though perhaps a retelling of that old story may be of value to her.

I think that in this case you need to approach the matter as a lawyer-to -be. What does she want? You know what you want from the relationship & to have continued for so long you must be getting something from it. Is it possible, & this is my guess, that she wants YOU, but as a lover & partner but not as a Master? Perhaps she has pretended to be a sub in order to be yours, hence the chickening out, in the hope that eventually all this kinky stuff will die down because you have fallen in love with her.

From a sub's point of view, sadism aside, the absolute worst thing is to make your Master angry or disappointed with you. This girl doesn't seem to care as long as you stay with her. Good luck.

 

[serijules]

I had a dom ignore my safeword once because it was a "punishment" and I "deserved what he was dishing out". It was only recently, 4+ years later, that I finally have gotten past that to the point where I can be caned again without serious fear being a part of the scene. I think it's a miracle I ever let anyone touch me again after that scene.

 

[Caitlynne]

Guys, I want to thank you all for your insight and support.

After carefully considering your comments it is obvious that occasionally ignoring your subs' safeword under special circumstances is ok. Thank you for clearing this up for me.

OK, I stayed out of this for various reasons, but this comment just begs [yes, I see the irony here] for a response.

I'll agree that some ply's do safeword just because they are afraid and skittish about the whole pain factor. That's something [I feel] you as a Dominant need to get past, before you just beat the hell out of her.

If you decide that her safeword should be ignored even once, you destroy the trust she has in the 'safeword ' in general. If she gives up her safeword that is one thing. That would be her choice to surrender that power to you. But, [and this is a big but in my opinion] if you arbitrarily decides she is just a wuss and needs to be pushed, you're opening yourself up to criminal prosecution. Forget that it's her safeword. Forget that you've given her this power [to use a safeword]. Ignoring it, puts you in the position of going against her consent. Do I need to spell out where that puts you legally. You proceed at your own risk.

I'm not saying you don't need to push a sub to the place you want her to be . I'm not saying that what you desire is not OK. I am saying that if you and a ply are mismatched, then you need to tread carefully.

If it is a mismatch, then all the pushing in the world won't make her into what you need and want. It has the potential to just blow up in our face.

Here is the thing. I'm fully aware that some subs think that a safeword is their power. That they can use it in any way possible to regain control, and place the Dominant under his/her control. I'm aware of this.

That said, if this is the case, and you've found yourself with a sub who is really topping from below, then you either have failed to dominate her at a pace that truly subdues her, or you are just an outright mismatch.

In either case, you need to take a look at which it is before you just decide to disregard her safeword.

I don't deny that it happens [fearful subs]. I don't even deny that it's your right to push her to where you want her. I am telling you to be careful. You're not just playing with her health, you're ultimately playing with the law.

In the end, if you push and fail, it is your responsibility. She has surrendered all she can. If she safewords and you push beyond that point, you are responsible for the consequences.

It's all fine and good for you Sadists to bond and say "Yeah, hit the bitch, she's a coward', and I'm sure you'll get lots of kudos no matter what you do. But the truth is, the reality is, you've missed some step in this whole thing if she isn't ready to go where you want her to go.

She does not control the path, or the circumstances--you do. If you can't find the right gradient, the right sequence of events, or the right triggers to put her where you want her... then you have failed, OR you will never be a good match.

 

[Singularity]

Another Very Real Story

You want another example of how dangerous your incredibly-stupid words are, Marquis?

I'll give you another example.

A woman I have been corresponding with for the past couple of years, who first responded with feedback to a story I'd written, trusted the so-called Dom she had met and was involved with. She thought he would respect her for who she was, and that she could be safe with him.

So what happened? He RAPED her. A clear-cut case of "report it to the police" RAPE. She did report him and she is struggling to deal with the consequences.

And where is she now? In counseling and on medication, as well as in court.

And you know what? She is 'tidying things up". Do you care to know why? Because she is contemplating suicide. Very seriously. Because an asshole who believed in what you said damaged her, possibly beyond saving.

Do you want that on your conscience? What if some stupid-as-shit moron who thinks he's god's gift to women decides that safewords are 'optional' after he reads your postings? Think about the potential for harm, from your frivolous and thoughtless words. You are a fucking moron if you think that your words are simply a frivolous repartee with your adoring sycophants.

THIS IS NOT A FUCKING GAME.

 

[im_a_voyeur]

You want another example of how dangerous your incredibly-stupid words are, Marquis?

I'll give you another example.

A woman I have been corresponding with for the past couple of years, who first responded with feedback to a story I'd written, trusted the so-called Dom she had met and was involved with. She thought he would respect her for who she was, and that she could be safe with him.

So what happened? He RAPED her. A clear-cut case of "report it to the police" RAPE. She did report him and she is struggling to deal with the consequences.

And where is she now? In counseling and on medication, as well as in court.

And you know what? She is 'tidying things up". Do you care to know why? Because she is contemplating suicide. Very seriously. Because an asshole who believed in what you said damaged her, possibly beyond saving.

Do you want that on your conscience? What if some stupid-as-shit moron who thinks he's god's gift to women decides that safewords are 'optional' after he reads your postings? Think about the potential for harm, from your frivolous and thoughtless words. You are a fucking moron if you think that your words are simply a frivolous repartee with your adoring sycophants.

THIS IS NOT A FUCKING GAME.

I don't post much, so you guys probably don't recognize me, but I am Marquis' sub.

Singularity, I want to thank you for your concern and your incredibly kind words, but there is so much here you don't understand.

Please don't judge Marquis based on what you see here, there is so much more to him.

When Marquis and I first met in the mental hospital, I was nothing. He was there by accident, but I was there because I had no self esteem at all and didn't even want to go on living.

But since being with Marquis, I realize I have value and purpose as his slave. No, it's not always pleasant or easy, like when he cuts me with the steak knife. I tell him that if he really loved me he would disinfect it first but he laughs and says I'll be fine. Like always, he is right and I've never had a problem except for all the scarring (he says it doesn't matter, since no one but him could think I'm attractive anyway).

So, what I'm trying to say is this. I trust Marquis completely. He has complete control over my money, my sexuality (he said he is going to make me suck Rosco soon) and everything else. Sometimes I am a bit of a wimp, but I am just grateful that he even cares enough to beat me and not just leave me.

I'm very sorry to hear about your friend. It's so sad how knowledge of BDSM can completely alter someone's behavior. I'm sure the Dom who raped her would never have done such a thing if he hadn't learned that he was a Dom.

 

[babiesmiles]

I too think a safeword should be not ignorated anyway but i wouldn't go carried away with judgements.

To compare Marquis to a rapist ( no matter of BDSM in what Singularity said above .. only matter of criminal code ) only because he thinks he can ( under some circustances and with a person he knows rather well ) ignore a safeword is a bit too much in my opinion .

I am not saying he is right , because in my world a safeword, as above someone else said better than me , is the ultimate border between shared pleasure and a behaviour which could be a crime punishable by law. I am only saying that M. seems to know very well where the line between the two is and his words seem to me only a provocation to see where the discussion can lead .

I have read other M 's threads and posts and I think he knows too well both the importance of the safeword concept in BDSM and the kind of ... "cry havoc let slip the dogs of war" reaction he would have caused questioning about this basic fundation of sane, safe and consesual playing .

So till I don't understand better the real meaning of this thread I am not willing to give harsh opinion about , only taking it like the last provocation to rise an interesting discussion.

I could be wrong but none is perfect .

edit to add : I wrote it before to read the I am a voyeur 's post but I still think it could be suitable in someway .

 

[raven2]

Guys, I want to thank you all for your insight and support.

After carefully considering your comments it is obvious that occasionally ignoring your subs' safeword under special circumstances is ok. Thank you for clearing this up for me.

I totally disagree. Under no circumstances should it be violated. You can punish in other ways but the trust must be kept.

 

[Marquis]

I totally disagree. Under no circumstances should it be violated. You can punish in other ways but the trust must be kept.

Hmmm, so we have some difference of opinion here, interesting.

Anyone care to respond?

 

[kayte]

I don't post much, so you guys probably don't recognize me, but I am Marquis' sub.

Singularity, I want to thank you for your concern and your incredibly kind words, but there is so much here you don't understand.

Please don't judge Marquis based on what you see here, there is so much more to him.

When Marquis and I first met in the mental hospital, I was nothing. He was there by accident, but I was there because I had no self esteem at all and didn't even want to go on living.

But since being with Marquis, I realize I have value and purpose as his slave. No, it's not always pleasant or easy, like when he cuts me with the steak knife. I tell him that if he really loved me he would disinfect it first but he laughs and says I'll be fine. Like always, he is right and I've never had a problem except for all the scarring (he says it doesn't matter, since no one but him could think I'm attractive anyway).

So, what I'm trying to say is this. I trust Marquis completely. He has complete control over my money, my sexuality (he said he is going to make me suck Rosco soon) and everything else. Sometimes I am a bit of a wimp, but I am just grateful that he even cares enough to beat me and not just leave me.

I'm very sorry to hear about your friend. It's so sad how knowledge of BDSM can completely alter someone's behavior. I'm sure the Dom who raped her would never have done such a thing if he hadn't learned that he was a Dom.

And I should believe you are who you say you are?


Violation of a sub's trust by ignoring the use of their safeword is just that. In addition it may be grounds for a criminal suit.

This thread started out scary. And then Singularity brought some reality in.

 

[raven2]

I don't post much, so you guys probably don't recognize me, but I am Marquis' sub.

Singularity, I want to thank you for your concern and your incredibly kind words, but there is so much here you don't understand.

Please don't judge Marquis based on what you see here, there is so much more to him.

When Marquis and I first met in the mental hospital, I was nothing. He was there by accident, but I was there because I had no self esteem at all and didn't even want to go on living.

But since being with Marquis, I realize I have value and purpose as his slave. No, it's not always pleasant or easy, like when he cuts me with the steak knife. I tell him that if he really loved me he would disinfect it first but he laughs and says I'll be fine. Like always, he is right and I've never had a problem except for all the scarring (he says it doesn't matter, since no one but him could think I'm attractive anyway).

So, what I'm trying to say is this. I trust Marquis completely. He has complete control over my money, my sexuality (he said he is going to make me suck Rosco soon) and everything else. Sometimes I am a bit of a wimp, but I am just grateful that he even cares enough to beat me and not just leave me.

I'm very sorry to hear about your friend. It's so sad how knowledge of BDSM can completely alter someone's behavior. I'm sure the Dom who raped her would never have done such a thing if he hadn't learned that he was a Dom.

I usually am not very critical or judgemental, but from what you are saying, cutting you witha steak knife and belittling you and telling you that you that no one could think you are attractive but him are classic signs of abusive control. That is no way to have a relationship.

 

[babiesmiles]

I am even more convinced in what i said above . This thread is something between the addams family humour and a " burn the criminal code attitude " scary joke... I dont know in which order tho ....

 

[s'lara]

Classic.

Like watching those little motion sensitive dolls flinging themselves into action when you pass your hand over the magic spot.

lara

 

[babiesmiles]

Classic.

Like watching those little motion sensitive dolls flinging themselves into action when you pass your hand over the magic spot.

lara

Good picture s'lara ..