Why The Holocaust Must Be Questioned

BlueEyesInLevis said:
Well lets see, I've given you websites disproving your theory that gravity is not a fact.

Actually you haven't given any proof at all. You can pick and choose websites with Google all day long, but they aren't proof and they don't disprove anything really. Especially if they go by the definition of fact as being absolute truth when despite everything, it is still just a theory. A very well supported theory, but nevertheless still a theory. We don't know HOW Gravity functions, and we don't know even if it's an illusion or not from some other factor of physical reality that is still unknown.


BlueEyesInLevis said:
I'll bet any amount that you'ld like, that your sources on dictionaries are inconsitant on their own definitions of fact.

Nice of you to offer bets with zero value. :rolleyes:

Please use a spell checker. Your constant bad spelling isn't making you look any smarter when you claim to know the English language better than a professional English teacher, and the publishers of both the Oxford and Macquarie dictionaries.


BlueEyesInLevis said:
And I'll remind you that it was you who began the intellectual superiority slant when you accused me of having no college degree.

So far you haven't demonstrated any real intellectual superiority though, or a good university education. So go ahead and keep trying to pretend how smart you are, I'm laughing. :D
 
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Lovelynice said:
:D NEVER!

well.... in the real world, only if they're cute and younger than me.

Then don't ..if you do you have to feed the worthless creatures. Hey Woody this one is a keeper..
 
Holy shit who cares what a fact is according to the dictionary. How bout we settle on an accepted defintion for the purposes of this thread. Whenever some one uses the word fact IN THIS THREAD it will mean X.

You know like if we are having a conversation on the gangs of Los Angeles it understood that we do not mean the Boy Scouts, the VA or the Safeway Labor Union. Lets come to an agreement and get back to the point.
 
Sean Renaud said:
Holy shit who cares what a fact is according to the dictionary. How bout we settle on an accepted defintion for the purposes of this thread. Whenever some one uses the word fact IN THIS THREAD it will mean X.

You know like if we are having a conversation on the gangs of Los Angeles it understood that we do not mean the Boy Scouts, the VA or the Safeway Labor Union. Lets come to an agreement and get back to the point.


Well said Sean..From now on when we speak of terrorist and murderers we will mean the fact that they are right wing neo con Zionist and their "christian" lap dogs.
 
It has to be something that everybody agrees on. If you can get everybody to agree on something that vague good luck. I'm just tired of listening to a three page long argument on what the definition of a fact is and I'm hoping that some sort of agreement can be made between us adults.

Also once again in Science a theory is not a guess, it is a fact. A fact that may later be proven false but it is not a guess or even a good or educated guess. Those are called Hypothesis.
 
Lovelynice said:
Now you're getting ridiculous. What next? Want me to type down the entire Library of Congress while I'm at it?!

Face it.You got it wrong.
LOL...whats wrong afraid to admit your dictionary contradicts itself?

Your resistance to giving ALL of the definitions just proves it.
 
I really am asking to much here by trying to get you guys off the subject of what a definition is and back on the holocaust.
 
Sean Renaud said:
It has to be something that everybody agrees on. If you can get everybody to agree on something that vague good luck. I'm just tired of listening to a three page long argument on what the definition of a fact is and I'm hoping that some sort of agreement can be made between us adults.

Also once again in Science a theory is not a guess, it is a fact. A fact that may later be proven false but it is not a guess or even a good or educated guess. Those are called Hypothesis.

In the context of your last post, the theme of this thread is about whether the Holocaust is a fact.

It is patently obvious because people question it, that there is no universal agreement on the claims and those same people are vilified with religious zeal for saying anything. This would suggest then that a fact requires belief in a certainty of correctness and we all know firsthand how pliable human beliefs can be with suggestion and propaganda.

In the Ernst Zundel trials, the Zionists thought they had a simple open and shut case, but when they got into the nitty gritty of witness testimony for the prosecution, they could not provide damning evidence that the Holocaust was of the nature popular culture portrays it to be. They were embarrassed by the case and it took extrajudicial intervention in the second trial to deny Zundel justice and crossexamination of secret evidence before he was railroaded.

Facts are vital in court cases but they are not necessarily the truth as many miscarriages of Justice show.

In the book of the Zundel trial, the introduction says this....

District Court Judge Ron Thomas

Prior to the commencement of the trial, Crown Attorney John Pearson requested presiding Judge Ron Thomas to take judicial notice of the historical fact that during the Second World War, the National Socialist regime of Adolf Hitler pursued a policy which had as its goal the extermination of the Jews of Europe. Thomas granted the application in the following terms:

It is my respectful view that the court should take judicial notice of the Holocaust having regard to all of the circumstances. The mass murder and extermination of Jews of Europe by the Nazi regime during the Second World War is so notorious as not to be the subject of dispute among reasonable persons. Furthermore, it is my view that the Holocaust is capable of immediate accurate demonstration by resort to readily accessible sources of indisputable accuracy. But I emphasize the ground upon which I hold that the court should take judicial notice of the Holocaust is that it is so notorious as to be not the subject of dispute among reasonable persons ... The Holocaust is the mass murder and extermination of Jews by the Nazi regime during the Second World War, and the jury will be told to take judicial notice of that.

As a result, the jury in the Zündel trial was directed that it was required to accept as a fact that the "Holocaust", as defined by Thomas, actually occurred.


So how good is Justice when one cannot question a story claimed to be fact by people who weren't there, when you are charged for making statements about what you knew to be true because you were there.

Holocaust protection is a conspiracy of deceit and silence, irrespective of the truth involved in the stories.
 
Lovelynice said:
Actually you haven't given any proof at all. You can pick and choose websites with Google all day long, but they aren't proof and they don't disprove anything really. Especially if they go by the definition of fact as being absolute truth when despite everything, it is still just a theory. A very well supported theory, but nevertheless still a theory. We don't know HOW Gravity functions, and we don't know even if it's an illusion or not from some other factor of physical reality that is still unknown.

Nice of you to offer bets with zero value. :rolleyes:
I see all those equations were over your head.

Your claims of winning this arguement arent supported by the evidence I have provided and your denial of their validity, and your unwillingness to provide the other definitions from your own dictionaries only proves me out.

Furthermore you're beginning to sound like your racist, hate-mongering buddies Woody and Krastner. Can I assume you deny the fact of the Holocaust as well?

Perhaps next time you should enlist the moral support of The Flat Earth Society or other nutcase groups who when proven wrong may blissfully stick their head in the sand and refuse to acknowledge FACTS, yet have enough dignity to not wallow around in the cess pools of history revisionism.
 
woody54 said:
In the context of your last post, the theme of this thread is about whether the Holocaust is a fact.

It is patently obvious because people question it, that there is no universal agreement on the claims and those same people are vilified with religious zeal for saying anything. This would suggest then that a fact requires belief in a certainty of correctness and we all know firsthand how pliable human beliefs can be with suggestion and propaganda.

In the Ernst Zundel trials, the Zionists thought they had a simple open and shut case, but when they got into the nitty gritty of witness testimony for the prosecution, they could not provide damning evidence that the Holocaust was of the nature popular culture portrays it to be. They were embarrassed by the case and it took extrajudicial intervention in the second trial to deny Zundel justice and crossexamination of secret evidence before he was railroaded.

Facts are vital in court cases but they are not necessarily the truth as many miscarriages of Justice show.

In the book of the Zundel trial, the introduction says this....

District Court Judge Ron Thomas

Prior to the commencement of the trial, Crown Attorney John Pearson requested presiding Judge Ron Thomas to take judicial notice of the historical fact that during the Second World War, the National Socialist regime of Adolf Hitler pursued a policy which had as its goal the extermination of the Jews of Europe. Thomas granted the application in the following terms:

It is my respectful view that the court should take judicial notice of the Holocaust having regard to all of the circumstances. The mass murder and extermination of Jews of Europe by the Nazi regime during the Second World War is so notorious as not to be the subject of dispute among reasonable persons. Furthermore, it is my view that the Holocaust is capable of immediate accurate demonstration by resort to readily accessible sources of indisputable accuracy. But I emphasize the ground upon which I hold that the court should take judicial notice of the Holocaust is that it is so notorious as to be not the subject of dispute among reasonable persons ... The Holocaust is the mass murder and extermination of Jews by the Nazi regime during the Second World War, and the jury will be told to take judicial notice of that.

As a result, the jury in the Zündel trial was directed that it was required to accept as a fact that the "Holocaust", as defined by Thomas, actually occurred.


So how good is Justice when one cannot question a story claimed to be fact by people who weren't there, when you are charged for making statements about what you knew to be true because you were there.

Holocaust protection is a conspiracy of deceit and silence, irrespective of the truth involved in the stories.

For the sake of my last post I believe that this thread is about wether or not the Holocaust actually happened in the way that we are told that it happened. My saying that everybody has to agree was that I wanted the argument over what defined a fact to be over and done with that some sort of middle ground needed to be met because I failed to see how a dictionary war over the defintion of the word Fact was progressive in this subject. When I said if you can get everybody to agree on something so vague it was because somebody had said in response to my arguement that we would know have a definition for what Zionist meant that seemed to me to be a rather narrow view.
 
BlueEyesInLevis said:
LOL...whats wrong afraid to admit your dictionary contradicts itself?

Your resistance to giving ALL of the definitions just proves it.

BEIL lauds facts as presented by GWB against the Muslim world.

Too bad he is too stupid to see most have them have been proven to be LIES.

AS to immutable Holocaust facts.....
Even the Holocaust museum has revised its death toll at Auschwitz down from 6 million originally to a nominal 1.5 million but it matters little now that they have Israel in the bag and the Nazis were murdered on tainted evidence.
Extrajudicial assassinations would have been more acceptable than the corruption of the Nuremburg process. But little did we know, there was a conspiracy underlying its execution. Facts are flexible.

Even the Whitehouse is realistic about bullshit. They just move on and create a new reality somewhere else to confuse you more.
 
BlueEyesInLevis said:
I see all those equations were over your head.

Your claims of winning this arguement arent supported by the evidence I have provided and your denial of their validity, and your unwillingness to provide the other definitions from your own dictionaries only proves me out.

Furthermore you're beginning to sound like your racist, hate-mongering buddies Woody and Krastner. Can I assume you deny the fact of the Holocaust as well?

Perhaps next time you should enlist the moral support of The Flat Earth Society or other nutcase groups who when proven wrong may blissfully stick their head in the sand and refuse to acknowledge FACTS, yet have enough dignity to not wallow around in the cess pools of history revisionism.

It is you with your big arse stuck in the air here because your head is stuck in the sand. You are such a wanker. Fancy raising Godwins Law against a shoolteacher because she marks your English down.

History is based on "facts". The first version is always written by the winners.
Any basic history class will show this. It is generally the way victors tell people why they were good and the vanquished were bad.

As time goes on and the heat goea out of the rhetoric, "revisionism" becomes a natural process to get nearer to the truth based on real evidence not presented in the first version because it didn't fit the skew.

The Holocaust story has been undrgoing "revisionism" from the beginning but there has been a majow conspiracy of censorship to prevent the widespread discussion of opposing views. Unfortunately, the uncontrollability of the Internet has stymied much of that censorship and much is now published that was not possible to be published on paper for fear of retribution.
Even on the Internet, there is a programme of silencing Holocaust questioning with server owners doing the censorship but fortunately , the net is so diverse a simple server change defeats that limitation.
 
Sean Renaud said:
For the sake of my last post I believe that this thread is about wether or not the Holocaust actually happened in the way that we are told that it happened. My saying that everybody has to agree was that I wanted the argument over what defined a fact to be over and done with that some sort of middle ground needed to be met because I failed to see how a dictionary war over the defintion of the word Fact was progressive in this subject. When I said if you can get everybody to agree on something so vague it was because somebody had said in response to my arguement that we would know have a definition for what Zionist meant that seemed to me to be a rather narrow view.

I would say there has always been a view that the Holocaust stories were partly or wholely fabricated to benefit Zionist interests.

In their post war writings, none of the 3 Western leaders made any references to the horrors of gassed Jews and if they were aware of such a thing, they most certainly used it it as a justification for the horrors they themselves had perpetrated against their enemies.

Then you have Allied military issuing orders like this one......
Fancy them ignoring all those supposedly poisoned bodies we keep getting shown as evidence.

This order was necessary because there was an orchestrated, widespread Jewish conspiracy of the most outrageous lies about Jewish exterminations even from places that had no suitable means to do what was claimed.

US MILITARY ORDERS ARREST OF JEWS
THAT CLAIM GAS CHAMBERS ARE TRUE.

Military Police Service Copy

Circular Letter No. 31/48 Vienna, 1 Oct. 1948 10th dispatch

1. The Allied Commissions of Inquiry have so far established that no people were killed by poison gas in the following concentration camps: Bergen-Belsen, Buchenwald, Dachau, Flossenbürg, Gross-Rosen, Mauthausen and its satellite camps, Natzweiler, Neuengamme, Niederhagen (Wewelsburg), Ravensbrück, Sachsenhausen, Stutthof, Theresienstadt.

In those cases, it has been possible to prove that confessions had been extracted by tortures and that testimonies were false.

This must be taken into account when conducting investigations and interrogations with respect to war crimes.

The result of this investigation should be brought to the cognizance of former concentration camp inmates who at the time of the hearings testified on the murder of people, especially Jews, with poison gas in those concentration camps. Should they insist on their statements, charges are to be brought against them for making false statements.

2. In the C.L. (Circular Letter) 15/48, item 1 is to be deleted.

The Head of the MPS Müller, Major" Certified true copy: Lachout, Second Lieutenant

Lachout testified (in a Canadian court case) that he had drafted this letter for Major Müller's signature and had watched him sign it. He had then had copies made in the office which he certified, signed and stamped. The letter was translated into three languages and confirmed by the controlling officer. Only then was it allowed to be issued. The letter was circulated to every military Kommando in the Russian zone to keep personnel aware of the state of investigations. No one was ever charged with making false statements because they withdrew their statements as soon as they heard about the letter.

http://www.ihr.org/books/kulaszka/29lachout.html

Lachout's testimony was part of the Ernst Zundel trial.
 
If you doubt the existence of a Zionist conspiracy throughout the western world, just read these comments which show the Jews declared war on Hitler the moment he came to power and took away their power of the media and money.

Let them explain it in their own ways.............No Jewish conspiracy, Poppycock!!


THE JEWS DECLARE WAR ON GERMANY (IN 1933).

"Judea Declares War on Germany!" - Daily Express headline, March 24, 1933.

"Judea Declares War on Germany! Jews of all the World Unite! Boycott of German Goods! Mass Demonstrations!" - These were all headlines in the Daily Express on March 24, 1933.

"The Israeli people around the world declare economic and financial war against Germany. Fourteen million Jews stand together as one man, to declare war against Germany. The Jewish wholesaler will forsake his firm, the banker his stock exchange, the merchant his commerce and the pauper his pitiful shed in order to join together in a holy war against Hitler's people." - Daily Express, March 24, 1933.

"Each of you, Jew and Gentile alike, who has not already enlisted in this sacred war should do so now and here. It is not sufficient that you should buy no goods made in Germany. You must refuse to deal with any merchant or shopkeeper who sells any German-made goods or who patronises German ships or shipping.... we will undermine the Hitler regime and bring the German people to their senses by destroying their export trade on which their very existence depends." - Samuel Undermeyer, in a Radio Broadcast on WABC, New York, August 6, 1933. Reported in the New York Times, August 7, 1933.

"Joining with Samuel Untermeyer in calling for a war against Germany, Bernard Baruch, at the same time, was promoting preparations for war against Germany. 'I emphasised that the defeat of Germany and Japan and their elimination from world trade would give Britain a tremendous opportunity to swell her foreign commerce in both volume and profit.'" - "Baruch, The Public Years," by Bernard M. Baruch, p.347.

Samuel Untermeyer was a Jewish leader and close friend of presidents Wilson and Roosevelt.
Bernard Baruch was a presidential adviser to Wilson, Roosevelt and Truman.

"This declaration called the war against Germany, which was now determined on, a 'holy war'. This war was to be carried out against Germany to its conclusion, to her destruction" (Diese Erklärung nannte den Krieg gegen Deutschland, der nun beschlossen sei, einen heiligen Krieg. Dieser Krieg müsse gegen Deutschland bis zu dessen Ende, bis zu dessen Vernichtung, geführt werden). - Dr. Franz J. Scheidl, Geschichte der Verfemung Deutschlands.

"War in Europe in 1934 was inevitable." - H. Morgenthau, Secretary of the U.S. Treasury, Hearst Press, September, 1933 (also quoted in "The Palestine Plot" by B. Jenson, p. 11).

"For months now the struggle against Germany is waged by each Jewish community, at each conference, in all our syndicates, and by each Jew all over the world. There is reason to believe that our part in this struggle has general value. We will trigger a spiritual and material war of all the world against Germany's ambitions to become once again a great nation, to recover lost territories and colonies. But our Jewish interests demand the complete destruction of Germany. Collectively and individually, the German nation is a threat to us Jews." - Vladimir Jabotinsky (founder of the Jewish terrorist group, Irgun Zvai Leumi) in Mascha Rjetsch, January, 1934 (also quoted in "Histoire de l'Armée Allemande" by Jacques Benoist-Mechin, Vol. IV, p. 303).

"Hitler will have no war (does not want war), but we will force it on him, not this year, but soon." - Emil Ludwig Cohn in Les Annales, June, 1934 (also quoted in his book "The New Holy Alliance").

"We Jews are going to bring a war on Germany." - David A. Brown, National Chairman, United Jewish Campaign, 1934 (quoted in "I Testify Against The Jews" by Robert Edward Edmondson, page 188 and "The Jewish War of Survival" by Arnold Leese, page 52).

"We want to bring about a deep hatred for the Germans, for German soldiers, sailors, and airmen. We must hate until we win." - Lord Beaverbrook, quoted in Niemals! by Heinrich Goitsch.

"There is only one power which really counts. The power of political pressure. We Jews are the most powerful people on earth, because we have this power, and we know how to apply it." - Vladimir Jabotinsky, Jewish Daily Bulletin, July 27, 1935.

"Before the end of the year, an economic bloc of England, Russia, France and the U.S.A will be formed to bring the German and Italian economic systems to their knees." - Paul Dreyfus, "La Vie de Tanger" May 15, 1938.

On the 3rd of June, 1938, the American Hebrew boasted that they had Jews in the foremost positions of influence in Britain, Russia and France, and that these "three sons of Israel will be sending the Nazi dictator to hell." - Joseph Trimble, the American Hebrew.

"Germany is our public enemy number one. It is our object to declare war without mercy against her. One may be sure of this: We will lead that war!" - Bernard Lecache, the president of the "International League Against Racism and Anti-Semitism," in its newspaper "Droit de Vivre" (Right to Life), 9 November, 1938.

"The war now proposed is for the purpose of establishing Jewish hegemony throughout the world." - Brigadier General George Van Horn Mosely, The New York Tribune, March 29, 1939.

"I wish to confirm in the most explicit manner, the declaration which I and my colleagues made during the last months, and especially in the last week: that the Jews "stand by Great Britain and will fight on the side of the democracies." Our urgent desire is to give effect to these declarations. We wish to do so in a way entirely consonant with the general scheme of British action, and therefore would place ourselves, in matters big and small, under the co-ordinating direction of His Majesty's Government. The Jewish Agency is ready to enter into immediate arrangements for utilizing Jewish manpower, technical ability, resources, etc." - Chaim Weizmann, President of the World Jewish Congress, Head of the Jewish Agency and later President of Israel, the London Times, September 5, 1939, and the London Jewish Chronicle, September 8, 1939.

"The millions of Jews who live in America, England and France, North and South Africa, and, not to forget those in Palestine, are determined to bring the war of annihilation against Germany to its final end." - Central Blad Voor Israeliten in Nederland, September 13, 1939.

"Stop talking about peace conditions! Break Germany in pieces!" - The Daily Herald, No.7426, 9 December, 1939.

"The Jews, taken collectively, view this war as a holy war." - The Daily Herald, No.7450, 1939, quoted in "Reichstagsbrand, Aufklärung einer historischen Legende," by U. Backes, K.H. Janßen, E. Jesse, H. Köhler, H. Mommsen, E Tobias.

"Even if we Jews are not physically at your side in the trenches, we are morally with you. This war is our war and you fight it with us." - Schalom Asch, Les Nouvelles Litterairres, February 10, 1940.

"In losing Germany, Jewry lost a territory from which it exerted power. Therefore it was determined to re-conquer it." - Louis Marschalko, "The World Conquerors : The Real War Criminals."

"The World Jewish Congress has been at war with Germany for seven years." - Rabbi M. Perlzweig (head of the British Section of the World Jewish Congress), Toronto Evening Telegram, February 26, 1940.

"The Second World War is being fought for the defense of the fundamentals of Judaism." - Rabbi Felix Mendlesohn, Chicago Sentinel, October 8, 1942.

"We are not denying and are not afraid to confess that this war is our war and that it is waged for the liberation of Jewry... Stronger than all fronts together is our front, that of Jewry. We are not only giving this war our financial support on which the entire war production is based, we are not only providing our full propaganda power which is the moral energy that keeps this war going. The guarantee of victory is predominantly based on weakening the enemy forces, on destroying them in their own country, within the resistance. And we are the Trojan horses in the enemy's fortress. Thousands of Jews living in Europe constitute the principal factor in the destruction of our enemy. There, our front is a fact and the most valuable aid for victory." - Chaim Weizmann, President of the World Jewish Congress, Head of the Jewish Agency and later President of Israel, in a Speech on December 3, 1942, in New York.

"Played golf with Joe Kennedy (U.S. Ambassador to Britain). He says that Chamberlain stated that America and world Jewry forced England into World War II." - James Forrestal, Secretary of the Navy (later Secretary of Defense), Diary, December 27, 1945 entry.

"It is untrue that I or anyone else in Germany wanted war in 1939. It was wanted and provoked solely by international statesmen either of Jewish origin or working for Jewish interests. Nor had I ever wished that after the appalling first World War, there would ever be a second against either England or America." - Adolf Hitler, April, 1945.

The joke doing the rounds of the British Union of Fascists at this time was that the Jewish national anthem was, 'Onward Christian Soldiers.'

Same joke would work today and be true. The Wars of America Terrorizing the World are all about defending the fascist regime in Israel.


The Jew, Marcus Eli Savage, in the Century Magazine, January 1928, says: "We Jews are at the bottom of nearly all your wars; not only of the Russian but of every major revolution in your history . . . We did it solely with the irresistible might of our spirit, with ideas and propaganda".

Oscar Levy, in the preface to his book THE WORLD SIGNIFICANCE OF THE RUSSIAN REVOLUTION says: "There is scarcely an event in modern European history that cannot be traced back to the Jews. We Jews today are nothing else but the world's seducers, it's destroyers, its incendiaries, its executioners".

The AMERICAN HEBREW, largest Jewish newspaper in the United States, 9/10/20 said: "The Bolshevik Revolution in Russia was the work of Jewish brains and planning, whose goal was to create a New World Order. What happened in Russia, through the same Jewish mental and physical forces, will become a reality over all the world".

In another issue of the AMERICAN HEBREW it said: "The ideals of Judaism are consonant (in agreement) with the finest ideals of Bolshevism". (And you wonder why so many Jews are Communists).
 
Hey blue eyed bitch in ragged jeans..I think Woody just told you to fuck off. Naturally he wouldn't use the crass words that I do but it's still the same thing. So why not just fuck off.
 
I'm delighted by LovelyNice's epistemological nursery rhymes. Does this mean I can take a Louisville Slugger to Krastner's shit-filled skull today and demand that I not be prosecuted because the fact that I gave him a wood shampoo might somehow change tomorrow?
 
Gringao said:
I'm delighted by LovelyNice's epistemological nursery rhymes. Does this mean I can take a Louisville Slugger to Krastner's shit-filled skull today and demand that I not be prosecuted because the fact that I gave him a wood shampoo might somehow change tomorrow?

Prove she made those posts! You can't!
 
Gringao said:
It might be wet today, but dry tomorrow. It's all so confusing!
For everyone, I think.

Have you decided to tackle a conservative version of Rob's weekly recap?
 
Gringao said:
We live in a dream...

.....which explains why your posting prowess makes you a legend in only your own mind. I recall you beat everyone in debate, it must be a dream.
 
Lavared said:
For everyone, I think.

Have you decided to tackle a conservative version of Rob's weekly recap?

Nah. I prefer winning the debates to dressing up in laurels and pretending I have.
 
Gringao said:
Nah. I prefer winning the debates to dressing up in laurels and pretending I have.

I knew it, you look a proper twit dressing up with grannies bloomers on your head, pretending again you are on the rostrum getting gold.
 
Gringao said:
Nah. I prefer winning the debates to dressing up in laurels and pretending I have.
I think it would be a fun project for someone. For all that I don't agree with his politics, I get a kick out of his recaps because they're so over-the-top.
 
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