adulterous affairs and flings

[_sticky_stuff]

Hi Moral Groud? Not?

To all you "high moral grounders" I say "Why?" -- you have a right to comment but, not to judge. No one of you can know anyone of us -- and the same is true, of course in reverse -- so why bother?

Believe what you believe -- others believe what they believe. It burns my ass to see people get so high, migthy and outright pompous preaching to others about their beliefs.

Additionally, to go the step further you took to "warn" me about "Murphy's Law" is not only presumpteous but outright assinine -- no offense -- why even care? Do you NEED to be right? Sounds like it.

My comment to the orignal poster was simply this -- if you feel strongly tempted, go for it. Period. No judgement required.

Enough said!

My shock and outrage comes also from the fact that I jumped on Literotica (please note the name) thinking is was a place for FREE expression about topics that may be EROTIC (see the name) by nature -- not SUPRESSED by nature.

If you want to preach morals, go to Biblelit or Preachlit, or maybe Highmoralslit, you get the pic, right?

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Throws my two sense in here ....

Nobody has the right to judge anyone, no one has walked or can possibly dream of walking in another persons shoes.
*snip*
Damn shame we don't live in a perfect world isn't Johnny?

Since this was directed at me...

I have every right to judge people, and if they don't like it, they can not post their intimate details, just as I can avoid being called judgmental by not posting. I don't have to murder to judge a murderer, but I have been cheated on, and can judge from my experience on the recieving end.
My feeling on it is this: when you make a commitment to another human being, you give up your right to think only of yourself. You have made a promise to be part of something bigger than yourself, and you no longer have the freedom to think solely of your own needs. If that commitment is too much for you, for whatever reason, it is time to make a clean break. Destroying other people for the sake of your pleasure is easy to judge...it is wrong. All the justifications in the world doesn't make it ok to shit on someone who loves you.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Re: Hi Moral Groud? Not?

To all you "high moral grounders" I say "Why?" -- you have a right to comment but, not to judge. No one of you can know anyone of us -- and the same is true, of course in reverse -- so why bother?

Believe what you believe -- others believe what they believe. It burns my ass to see people get so high, migthy and outright pompous preaching to others about their beliefs.

Additionally, to go the step further you took to "warn" me about "Murphy's Law" is not only presumpteous but outright assinine -- no offense -- why even care? Do you NEED to be right? Sounds like it.

My comment to the orignal poster was simply this -- if you feel strongly tempted, go for it. Period. No judgement required.

Enough said!

My shock and outrage comes also from the fact that I jumped on Literotica (please note the name) thinking is was a place for FREE expression about topics that may be EROTIC (see the name) by nature -- not SUPRESSED by nature.

If you want to preach morals, go to Biblelit or Preachlit, or maybe Highmoralslit, you get the pic, right?

If you don't like it, don't read it. And, if you don't like people commenting on your life, don't put it on a board for everyone to read.

And, I like how you say 'No judgement required', since sound judgment would obviously keep people from cheating.

 

[Seattle Zack]

Ethics are not ethics if they may change according to the situation. Then what's guiding your life is mere convenience wrapped in rationalization surrounded by lies.

Not sure I agree with this one ... I know many honorable and courageous men whose ethical code had to change drastically according to their situation when they were dropped out of a chopper into a jungle some 12,000 miles away. Ethical codes are flexible, and change every day according to our circumstances.

When I was young, I used to make sweeping moral pronouncements, believing that circumstances were irrelevant and that moral clarity was an absolute. As I've gotten older, I've come to recognize that when two people get together, a unique dynamic develops between them that is impossible to understand for someone on the outside.

Cheating is not a cause, it's a symptom of some deeper problems in a relationship. It's hurtful, yes ... is the neglect, abuse, recrimination for one's desires that leads to it any less hurtful? It's not OK to cheat, but it's OK to deny your partner sex? Without having been in that particular relationship, it seems presumptuous of me to think I can pass judgement on any particular behavior.

In a perfect world, we'd all get counseling, get divorced the moment a marriage goes bad, eat low fat foods, wear our seatbelts, blah blah blah. We don't live in that world. Real life is messy.

For me, when I was married, did I ever cheat? No. Do I wish I had? Fuck yes. Looking back, there were several opportunities that I passed up, opportunities that might have led to a better life and a better relationship for me today.

Anymore, I'm not a big believer in the religious standard -- that of monogamy --- that our society has been forced to embrace. But I'm hesitant to lambaste someone else for their decisions (which were not made lightly, believe me). I don't feel I have the perspective or knowledge of their situation to do that.

 

[James G 5]

by the by, I'd just like to drop in a note that all the hassles involved with getting in & out of marriages are some of the reasons (other than my feeling that monogamy will never work for most people so why put yourself in a relationship structure that's at odds with that if you want to be an honest & ethical person) why I find said relationship structures frightful and outmoded

 

[woody54]

I have been reading this thread with close interest as it reflects much in my own relationship.

It's 12 hours on from my posting.
It was 10 minutes later that the phone first rang, it was my wife, flabergasted and embarrassed at my public assertions and undeniably upset at my perception of things as they stand. However, I only wrote what was in my heart.

It has been an emotional day with much talking. This is not something that can be cured with a magic wand. We have established some areas where new understandings have to be reached and concessions made. We have much negotiating to do to reach a common understanding of where we go from here. There are some major hurdles to deal with.

I concede that airing this in a public forum was not a conciliatory gesture but it has got us into meaningful dialogue which must be good whatever happens next.

 

[woody54]

Damn, its happened again, a double post. Duh, I'm not at my best right now

 

[woody54]

Oops , double post

 

[Jaybird3]

Don't worry about the double post woody, you have enough on your mind.

 

[Bobmi357]

Re: Hi Moral Groud? Not?

My shock and outrage comes also from the fact that I jumped on Literotica (please note the name) thinking is was a place for FREE expression about topics that may be EROTIC (see the name) by nature -- not SUPRESSED by nature.

If you want to preach morals, go to Biblelit or Preachlit, or maybe Highmoralslit, you get the pic, right?

Why should you be shocked? This conversation has little to do with sex all to do with honesty and deceitfulness. If you intend to open your life up to comment on a public forum you have to accept that this people are going to comment, and some of those comments aren't going to be to your liking.

This isn't about religion, or about societies conventions concerning monogomy, its about personal integrity and honesty. Personally I like being married to one woman, its comfortable for me and for her. There are others like James, who lead a different lifestyle and I respect his wishes. But by the same token, even he states if you have problems sufficient in your relationship to cause you to cheat, you should deal with them first instead of cheating. Perhaps that means divorcing and changing your lifestyle, perhaps it means somehow fixing things with your partner, but it means solving the problem. Not hiding from it, sneaking around your mate's back, lying and otherwise being dishonest with you mate and yourself.

Woody54 posted an interesting message, you could feel the pain he has just from reading his post. But the upside is he managed to shock his wife to open communications and get them talking. Sometimes it takes a shock like that to start up a conversation that might fix the problem, or end the relationship. In either case, the problem IS fixed for them. I feel for Woody and hope that somehow he manages to resolve his situation to something acceptable to both of them.

 

[Jaybird3]

Bobmi, this is exactly what I meant when I said that sometimes I think that people cheat in the hopes of getting caught. It will sometimes be enough of a shock to the other person that it at least gets them talking about the problem.

Woody, I wish you well. At least you are now talking to the S/O about your feelings and desires, needs and wants.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Not sure I agree with this one ... I know many honorable and courageous men whose ethical code had to change drastically according to their situation when they were dropped out of a chopper into a jungle some 12,000 miles away. Ethical codes are flexible, and change every day according to our circumstances.

When I was young, I used to make sweeping moral pronouncements, believing that circumstances were irrelevant and that moral clarity was an absolute. As I've gotten older, I've come to recognize that when two people get together, a unique dynamic develops between them that is impossible to understand for someone on the outside.

Cheating is not a cause, it's a symptom of some deeper problems in a relationship. It's hurtful, yes ... is the neglect, abuse, recrimination for one's desires that leads to it any less hurtful? It's not OK to cheat, but it's OK to deny your partner sex? Without having been in that particular relationship, it seems presumptuous of me to think I can pass judgement on any particular behavior.

In a perfect world, we'd all get counseling, get divorced the moment a marriage goes bad, eat low fat foods, wear our seatbelts, blah blah blah. We don't live in that world. Real life is messy.

For me, when I was married, did I ever cheat? No. Do I wish I had? Fuck yes. Looking back, there were several opportunities that I passed up, opportunities that might have led to a better life and a better relationship for me today.

Anymore, I'm not a big believer in the religious standard -- that of monogamy --- that our society has been forced to embrace. But I'm hesitant to lambaste someone else for their decisions (which were not made lightly, believe me). I don't feel I have the perspective or knowledge of their situation to do that.

No offense...but I( gotta call bullshit on this entire post. In the perfect world, everyone could avoid having to make any judgments at all. Since that world doesn't exist, the only way to keep the real world from collapsing is to make judgments about things. Shall we say that, since no one is perfect, no one can be faulted for anything? Shall we act like animals, and rut with anything that moves, since no one is perfect? Being fallible is no excuse for not trying to be better.

Cheating is a symptom...and not always a symptom of something wrong in the relationship. Sometimes, I person is just mentally unbalanced, and telling them to go ahead and act out is bad advice. And, mostly, it seems from this thread and others that people cheat because they are horny and selfish. That's it, no noble reason, no heartbreakingly sad reason. Their wife wants vanilla sex twice a week, they want to tie someone up and beat them every other day. That's all it is, horniness, boredom, and a need for a thrill....no lofty goals. And, it is about wanting to keep things convenient. People who don't have the spine for honesty go out and have affairs.

It isn't about religious standards about sex(I hope it isn't, I'm an Atheist from a non-religious family) It is about the basic decency and integrity that determines whether you are a worthwhile human being or not. Cheating puts you squarely in the 'not' category, as far as I am concerned, extenuating circumstances nonwithstanding.

 

[Jaybird3]

That is just my point Johnny...unless they post those circumstances the reader doesn't know about them.

How many times have you read a post and wondered what you weren't being told? Plus you have the whole "other side of the story" aspect as well.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

That is just my point Johnny...unless they post those circumstances the reader doesn't know about them.

How many times have you read a post and wondered what you weren't being told? Plus you have the whole "other side of the story" aspect as well.

Uh huh...well, 1) they tell us what they want us to know, they takes their chances, and 2) I've been on the other side, it isn't a happy story, I can tell you.

 

[midwestyankee]

No offense...but I( gotta call bullshit on this entire post. In the perfect world, everyone could avoid having to make any judgments at all. Since that world doesn't exist, the only way to keep the real world from collapsing is to make judgments about things. Shall we say that, since no one is perfect, no one can be faulted for anything? Shall we act like animals, and rut with anything that moves, since no one is perfect? Being fallible is no excuse for not trying to be better.

Cheating is a symptom...and not always a symptom of something wrong in the relationship. Sometimes, I person is just mentally unbalanced, and telling them to go ahead and act out is bad advice. And, mostly, it seems from this thread and others that people cheat because they are horny and selfish. That's it, no noble reason, no heartbreakingly sad reason. Their wife wants vanilla sex twice a week, they want to tie someone up and beat them every other day. That's all it is, horniness, boredom, and a need for a thrill....no lofty goals. And, it is about wanting to keep things convenient. People who don't have the spine for honesty go out and have affairs.

It isn't about religious standards about sex(I hope it isn't, I'm an Atheist from a non-religious family) It is about the basic decency and integrity that determines whether you are a worthwhile human being or not. Cheating puts you squarely in the 'not' category, as far as I am concerned, extenuating circumstances nonwithstanding.

Johnny, I am dead on in agreement with this. It's not about religion for this agnostic, either. It's about the ability to keep to a personal statement of intent.

Now, as to the subject of military service and personal ethics, with the exception of sincere conscientious objectors, most folks agree that war made in the service of your country carries its own set of ethics. If it didn't, there couldn't possibly be a successful campaign because no one soldier would ever be willing to walk the point or step out of the amphibious assault vehicle first. Everyone would take all possible actions to save their own hides first and fight second. But it doesn't happen that way because they accepted a code of behavior they would follow in battle. Is this code different from the one we follow back home? Yes. Is it moral? I believe it is. Is this a justification for widespread situational ethics? I don't think so.

Further, I don't have to sit in judgment of anyone's actions or decisions. They have their own conscience and consequences to live with. But when someone posts an intriguing question on a discussion board, I'm going to pay attention and probably answer. And when someone joins into the discussion with poorly reasoned arguments presented as proof and not mere opinion, then it seems to me that a reply is not only warranted, but required.

 

[Wulf7]

Re: Hi Moral Groud? Not?

Additionally, to go the step further you took to "warn" me about "Murphy's Law" is not only presumpteous but outright assinine -- no offense -- why even care? Do you NEED to be right? Sounds like it.

I don't think it was presumptuous, just a warning/opinion, my two cents worth is all. Take it or leave it. I tend to view things in that vein, "what can go wrong, will". I think its highly arrogant to feel that way, you're tempting the fates IMO.

My comment to the orignal poster was simply this -- if you feel strongly tempted, go for it. Period. No judgement required.

I feel thats just plain old bad and irresponsible advice. You're horny! Go get laid! Damn the torpedos!

If you want to preach morals, go to Biblelit or Preachlit, or maybe Highmoralslit, you get the pic, right?

I see. So a website that deals in erotica and sex can't necessarily have people posting things about morals in relationships? Thats reserved for bible studies class?

 

[honestone]

I was on yesterday and since that time the thread shifted to morals and ethics. I believe the question was to cheat or not to cheat. The notion of "to cheat" begs the assumption of an agreement. I believe that if one wants to avoid the slope of morals one must address the agreement. I said before that if two parties agree to change the agreement than the issue of cheating goes by the wayside and the moral slope is avoided.

Further the question brings to the fore the rules of the bigger game and I think that is good.

 

[_sticky_stuff]

Keep it to your self

Golden Boy this is the last words I will waste on you -- if you got hurt -- I'm sorry -- get over it -- re: judgement -- keep it to yourself. How dare you get your shit all over us (those who believe otherwise). Perhaps you should take a closer look at yourself and why "You were cheated on." Sounds like victim-hood to me.

Read the stats my friend -- APA Stats -- 96% of people who cheat were people whose needs were left unmet by their partner/significant other. That's a very powerful stat and one "certified" by a very credible professional entity.

If you were cheated on, you weren't doing your part or, you made a bad choice. Plain & simple.

With that said -- you surely have a right to your opinion however, you have no right to pass judgement. Get some help, get healed and move on.

I'm off this page and onto to another venue where hopefully, people have minds that are a bit ore open.

 

[James G 5]

Johnny, I am dead on in agreement with this. It's not about religion for this agnostic, either. It's about the ability to keep to a personal statement of intent.

100% exacta-mundo
The idea that honor or decency or morality is meaningless without religion is BS
My word is my WORD, and that takes on more signifigance since I don't believe in a "higher power" that will punish me (I am, BTW, a pagan, not atheist or agnostic, but my belief system stresses responsibility to and for one's self)
Self-integrity is strong
Integrity based on fear of punishment (espcialy since most religions give you some kind of a "back door" to beg forgiveness) isn't as "real" to me

 

[James G 5]

Re: Keep it to your self

Golden Boy this is the last words I will waste on you -- if you got hurt -- I'm sorry -- get over it -- re: judgement -- keep it to yourself. How dare you get your shit all over us (those who believe otherwise). Perhaps you should take a closer look at yourself and why "You were cheated on." Sounds like victim-hood to me.

Read the stats my friend -- APA Stats -- 96% of people who cheat were people whose needs were left unmet by their partner/significant other. That's a very powerful stat and one "certified" by a very credible professional entity.

If you were cheated on, you weren't doing your part or, you made a bad choice. Plain & simple.

With that said -- you surely have a right to your opinion however, you have no right to pass judgement. Get some help, get healed and move on.

I'm off this page and onto to another venue where hopefully, people have minds that are a bit ore open.

Uhmmmmmmmmmmmmm....Mebbe the needs were unmet because the unfulfilled partner wasn't communicating, or wasn't filling needs his or herself?
It's ALSO virtually never one person's sole fault
Facts and figures can be SO twisted out of context

 

[warrior queen]

i can't believe these threads on 'cheating' always end up like this!

get over it already!

people ARE going to keep cheating/sleeping around/committing adultery....

..if it's not your scene - fine!
..if it is, FINE!!!

geez people.......

 

[James G 5]

i can't believe these threads on 'cheating' always end up like this!

get over it already!

people ARE going to keep cheating/sleeping around/committing adultery....

..if it's not your scene - fine!
..if it is, FINE!!!

geez people.......

That's why we must work to abolish monogamy

And besides, if we can't waste time in endless circular arguments that are unlikely to change anyone's minds here, what ARE we supposed to do with our time?

 

[warrior queen]

That's why we must work to abolish monogamy

And besides, if we can't waste time in endless circular arguments that are unlikely to change anyone's minds here, what ARE we supposed to do with our time?

rofl...... i've got a piece of metal with the answer to that......



but...................

oh DEAR!

i would have to 'c-h-e-a-t' to do that!

 

[James G 5]

rofl...... i've got a piece of metal with the answer to that......



but...................

oh DEAR!

i would have to 'c-h-e-a-t' to do that!

we're back to the "abolish monogamy" thing
ask him if I can borrow you for a while
As long as he's cool with it, we're kosher

 

[lickmeslowly]

hi

interesing thread