Alcatraz

[Lazaran]

How quaint, your proclamation of triumph, issued as if from atop an imaginary hill. I do admire the confidence it takes to declare a battle won while still lost in the fog of your delusions.

Damn, Rightard is really full of themself today. (Which is to say: Rightard is really full of shit today.)



Rightard

 

[LeahWill]

How quaint, your proclamation of triumph, issued as if from atop an imaginary hill. I do admire the confidence it takes to declare a battle won while still lost in the fog of your delusions.

Crikey, you really are as easy to play as a cheap tin whistle aren't you...

 

[Politruk]

A little bit of research on the googie woogie ought to inform you about the state of policing in the UK and Europe.

But, because I'm not a total skank:



What that means is that Europe doesn't incarcerate criminals and instead prefers fines and social programs while criminals walk free to offend again and again and again. Even when they do put someone in prison, it's a last resort and for shorter periods.

Compared to the US which imposes jail sentences for criminals and grants parole or probation for minor offenders.

One is a jail as a last resort mindset, while the other is punish first then grant leniency society. The difference can be seen in the disparate incarceration rates. It has nothing to do with whether counseling inmates or social programs is the better program model over incarceration.

And Europe has lower crime rates than the U.S. Clearly their approach is better.

 

[whiskeytangofoxtrot]

Nah, Trump is just gaslighting everyone, deflecting away from what he is really up to. More like the Trump family grifting and conning people with their crypto and overseas transactions.

 

[HisArpy]

Yet you present no rebuttal that torches his thesis.

She can't. She's a Brat with need for discipline so she acts out in order to get it.

I'm not interested in histrionics seeking virtual attention. If she wants daddy to paddle her, she needs to do better than use the internet for it.

 

[HisArpy]

Depending on how keen you are to find out I'd suggest asking them.

<-- is semi-retired and doesn't do immigration law. Please consult another attorney for your legal needs.

 

[LoneMilf]

A little bit of research on the googie woogie ought to inform you about the state of policing in the UK and Europe.

But, because I'm not a total skank:



What that means is that Europe doesn't incarcerate criminals and instead prefers fines and social programs while criminals walk free to offend again and again and again. Even when they do put someone in prison, it's a last resort and for shorter periods.

Compared to the US which imposes jail sentences for criminals and grants parole or probation for minor offenders.

One is a jail as a last resort mindset, while the other is punish first then grant leniency society. The difference can be seen in the disparate incarceration rates. It has nothing to do with whether counseling inmates or social programs is the better program model over incarceration.

Thanks for the source. It doesn't say anything to support your statements though.. it just confirms that incarceration is more commonly used in the US than Europe. It says nothing about:

In Europe (NOT the US), incarceration rates are lower because many of those who need to be deported or jailed are allowed to go free without bail. Meanwhile citizens know that if THEY report crimes, THEY will go to jail themselves. So they don't report crimes or criminals.

Any sources for that?

 

[Rightguide]

Crikey, you really are as easy to play as a cheap tin whistle aren't you...

Only if I feel generous and you're the kind of person who thinks blowing hot air is a skill set.

 

[HisArpy]

Thanks for the source. It doesn't say anything to support your statements though.. it just confirms that incarceration is more commonly used in the US than Europe. It says nothing about:


Any sources for that?

What part of:

• The Dutch have kept prison populations low primarily because they are not willing to overcrowd
• Sweden has a three-tiered, noncustodial sanctioning system
• Several European countries use day fines
• Most countries have a ceiling on long sentences
• In general, Europeans share the views that crime prevention and reparation are more beneficial than punishment
• that prison sentences should be imposed as a last resort

didn't you correlate with; "incarceration rates are lower because many of those who need to be deported or jailed are allowed to go free without bail"?

It's obvious that if you don't put people in jail, you have lower incarceration rates.

 

[Rightguide]

So.

Ready to answer my question now or going to run away from it again.

(And before you try it - pretending you can't remember what it was will just make you look like a big scaredy cat).

Rephrase it and I'll answer it.

 

[LoneMilf]

What part of:

• The Dutch have kept prison populations low primarily because they are not willing to overcrowd
• Sweden has a three-tiered, noncustodial sanctioning system
• Several European countries use day fines
• Most countries have a ceiling on long sentences
• In general, Europeans share the views that crime prevention and reparation are more beneficial than punishment
• that prison sentences should be imposed as a last resort

didn't you correlate with; "incarceration rates are lower because many of those who need to be deported or jailed are allowed to go free without bail"?

It's obvious that if you don't put people in jail, you have lower incarceration rates.

None of that says that those people 'need to be deported or jailed' - in fact, it says that they are punished/dealt with in other ways. It doesn't say this has any negative impacts on society

 

[HisArpy]

None of that says that those people 'need to be deported or jailed' - in fact, it says that they are punished/dealt with in other ways. It doesn't say this has any negative impacts on society

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at. You were the one who mentioned the lower incarceration rates in Europe as compared to the rate in the US. That you can't seem to correlate that in Europe incarceration is a last resort but in the US it's a first resort is confusing. Here in the US we round up criminals and illegal aliens and jail them until they can be sorted out through our judicial system. It's different in Europe where criminals are given fines and released.

Which is why our incarceration rates for criminals are higher, and illegal aliens get deported instead of being set free to establish no-go-zones.

 

[LoneMilf]

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at. You were the one who mentioned the lower incarceration rates in Europe as compared to the rate in the US. That you can't seem to correlate that in Europe incarceration is a last resort but in the US it's a first resort is confusing. Here in the US we round up criminals and illegal aliens and jail them until they can be sorted out through our judicial system. It's different in Europe where criminals are given fines and released.

Which is why our incarceration rates for criminals are higher, and illegal aliens get deported instead of being set free to establish no-go-zones.

I think the difference is this:
You (and many in the US system) believe that the only way to prevent criminals from doing more crime is incarceration.
I (and many in the European systems) believe that there are other ways to deal with some of the less serious crimes.

The sources I've quoted earlier show that there is at least some evidence that the European approach works. I haven't found the same for the US one.

 

[Rightguide]

Nope.

Answer the question

Are you referring to the two questions that are really Answers in disguise, these two?:

So I guess this means you can't even begin to deport anyone until you have all the new prisons ready to hold the deportees in whilst sorting out the issues with the communist judges? The obvious answer is no.

What is the timeframe for building sufficient capacity do you think? In view of the obvious answer to the question above, this question is a non sequitur.

 

[HisArpy]

I think the difference is this:
You (and many in the US system) believe that the only way to prevent criminals from doing more crime is incarceration.
I (and many in the European systems) believe that there are other ways to deal with some of the less serious crimes.

The sources I've quoted earlier show that there is at least some evidence that the European approach works. I haven't found the same for the US one.

Hiding crime rates by refusing to incarcerate criminals isn't something I'd call "working."

But, again, that's why Europe has no-go-zones and the US doesn't.

 

[Rightguide]

Nope.

The first question
The one that wasn't an answer in disguise.
Otherwise known as 'The question you keep dodging'

Oh dear, you are such a disappointment, but go on let's give you another go... I'm too soft, I really am.

(And all this after I taught you how to use capital letters, with no thanks from you but the way. A little bit rude and ungrateful).

The first question in what post number?

 

[LoneMilf]

Hiding crime rates by refusing to incarcerate criminals isn't something I'd call "working."

But, again, that's why Europe has no-go-zones and the US doesn't.

When you punish criminals in other ways than incarceration, it doesn't hide crime rates. It's still registered and reported on.

I agree that no-go zones are a symptom of serious problems. However, I think they are most often a result of a lack of police resources - they are not directly linked to the discussion of incarcerations vs. alternatives.

 

[Rightguide]

Dull
Dull
Dull

Just answer it...

Ask it again or move on.

 

[LeahWill]

Ask it again or move on.

Okay.

What's it like to be my little tin whistle?

So easy lol.

 

[Politruk]

But, again, that's why Europe has no-go-zones and the US doesn't.

Europe does not have no-go zones.

 

[ll74]

Ask it again or move on.

That would require you to read.

 

[Wylie3]

There's no good reason why they shouldn't be comfortable.

The purpose of incarceration is not punishment.

The purpose of incarceration is not rehabilitation.

The purpose of incarceration is incarceration.

Taking a criminal out of circulation for a while is always the most we can reasonably hope to accomplish.

Yeah but if you put them up in a five star hotel they just want to keep coming back.

If you lock them up in an uncomfortable dungeon and feed them bread and water they are less likely to want to return.

 

[Politruk]

Yeah but if you put them up in a five star hotel they just want to keep coming back.

If you lock them up in an uncomfortable dungeon and feed them bread and water they are less likely to want to return.

The purpose of incarceration is not even deterrence.

 

[Lazaran]

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1kfv6un/trump_wants_to_reopen_alcatrazand_everyone_has

BWAHAHAHA…HA



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[Politruk]

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1kfv6un/trump_wants_to_reopen_alcatrazand_everyone_has

BWAHAHAHA…HA



We. Told. Them. So.

Take your pick!