Everything Evil comes from the North.

[Clare Quilty]

” I was mildly surprised not to see a lynching but this group of tourists were mostly North American and in their seventies, probably not up to staging a good lynching.

I can't imagine a group more inclined to or possibly experienced in doing so.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I agree.

I somtimes wonder why sensible Pagans allowed themselves to be converted to Christianity with all of it's mysoginistic and restrictive superstitions.

Easy. Because Christianity offered a much more effective way of oppressing and controlling women.

 

[Clare Quilty]

The ol' Red Tent.

What's amazing is not that Eve was blamed for oringal sin or that so many religions have bought into blaming her for tempting poor Adam, but that women allowed these traditions to become so powerful. Didn't they have cranky Church Ladies with large hats and a mean left?

...And Eve was the best that god could come up with after three tries! Lilith and at least one other Eve having come first.

 

[snowy ciara]

Didn't they have cranky Church Ladies with large hats and a mean left?

Why yes, they did. They usually called them witches and frequently tortured and/or executed them. Or they could just excommunicate them.

We can't blame all of Christianity for the mysogony of some.

 

[Weird Harold]

Easy. Because Christianity offered a much more effective way of oppressing and controlling women.

That's exactly why I don't understand why Pagans embrace Christianity -- It was often the women who first embraced Christianity. I see many references in historical texts that refer to Christianity as a "Womanish" religion -- particularly notable in my readings about Vikings, BTW.

From everything I read about pre-christianity Norse society, It simply boggles my mind that the women of that society not only accepted the faith, but embraced it and were instrumental in the coversion of the Norse to christianity.

 

[shereads]

Why yes, they did. They usually called them witches and frequently tortured and/or executed them. Or they could just excommunicate them.

We can't blame all of Christianity for the mysogony of some.

Why not?

We blame sheep farmers for mutton. We blame Oprah for book clubs.

 

[shereads]

That's exactly why I don't understand why Pagans embrace Christianity -- It was often the women who first embraced Christianity. I see many references in historical texts that refer to Christianity as a "Womanish" religion -- particularly notable in my readings about Vikings, BTW.

From everything I read about pre-christianity Norse society, It simply boggles my mind that the women of that society not only accepted the faith, but embraced it and were instrumental in the coversion of the Norse to christianity.

Didn't pagans typically embrace Christianity at swordpoint?

 

[Weird Harold]

Didn't pagans typically embrace Christianity at swordpoint?

A lot of them did, but I don't think I'd class it as "typically."

In the case of the Norse, about 60% or so converted peacefully before the Norse Gods were outlawed -- or so the history available to me suggest.

Except for where conquest was involved -- Cortez' conquest of the Aztecs, for example -- there was generally a sizable population of christians to support a change in state religion before it happened.

 

[neonlyte]

I can't imagine a group more inclined to or possibly experienced in doing so.

I think it was the trek through the woods, they were probably too tired.

Originally posted by Wierd Harold From everything I read about pre-christianity Norse society, It simply boggles my mind that the women of that society not only accepted the faith, but embraced it and were instrumental in the coversion of the Norse to christianity.

A Norwegian friend tried to explain this to me. She said the explanation lay in a dissatisfaction with the Norsk way of life, Father's and Son's embarking on voyages, away for many years, multiple wives, etc. Christianity offered family stability, one husband, one wife. She also said women ruled the homestead, with the men away it was the women who made decisions, planted the crops and tended the animals. There is a strong evidence, in my circle of Norwegian friends, that this is still the case. In many of the families I know the woman is defacto head of the household, men are expected and required to play a full role in raising families, supported by social legislation, if they don't, (the men) they are discarded.

NL

 

[Weird Harold]

A Norwegian friend tried to explain this to me. She said the explanation lay in a dissatisfaction with the Norsk way of life, Father's and Son's embarking on voyages, away for many years, multiple wives, etc. Christianity offered family stability, one husband, one wife. She also said women ruled the homestead, with the men away it was the women who made decisions, planted the crops and tended the animals. ...

While women had a great deal of influence and power before Christianity and have the same again in modern times, it's the contrast of what they had vs what they thought Christianity would bring them -- with all of the paternalistic claptrap that came with it.

From my modern perspective, the trade-off of what they had vs what they got for a couple of centuries doesn't seem to be worth it.

 

[neonlyte]

While women had a great deal of influence and power before Christianity and have the same again in modern times, it's the contrast of what they had vs what they thought Christianity would bring them -- with all of the paternalistic claptrap that came with it.

From my modern perspective, the trade-off of what they had vs what they got for a couple of centuries doesn't seem to be worth it.

Agreed - they were 'sold' a pup.

If you can recommend any background reading I would appreciate suggestions. I have some including a beautiful book of Egils Saga acquired from the Bergen Cultural Museum. I'm going to use Norway as a backdrop for my NaNo entry this year.

NL

 

[Weird Harold]

If you can recommend any background reading I would appreciate suggestions.

I can't think of any specific sources off-hand. Most of what I know about pre-christian Norse society is gleaned from 40+ years of bits and pieces mentioned in passing in works about other things.


I did go through a phase of reading everything about Vikings and Norsemen I could get my hands on, but that was a long time ago -- and much of it has been refuted by more modern research.

You might check the History Channel's website for reference works -- They recently had a four-part series on Barbarians that cited several different rcent works about the Vikings. They usually have a reading list on their website for those interested in pursuing more information.