Kim's poly/kink thread reinvented ...

[KimGordon67]

Send the wish list! (Now me, with my strange sense of humor, the wish list would contain some strange things, just to break the ice. You have to be careful though, because they might point at the strange thing and say "Yes, that!") It's a perfect opportunity to send a few pictures that give you butterflies in a good way.

As for the perplexed part - that's a good chance to still in contemplation and explore why you're perplexed. (That's the Buddhist in me who contemplates all kinds of things to explore them.)

And for no reason the thought of a wish list reminded me of a funny story a friend of mine once told me - about the time she had a three some with a stripper and a guy in a chicken suit.

I know why I'm perplexed ... with every guy I've had anything to do with since my husband, I've had no problems talking about sex with them. I just don't understand why it's different this time. I can sort of guess, but I don't really know. We didn't even end up having this conversation last night ... I thought about it, but something seemed a bit off with him, so I decided to leave it.

 

[Paul_Chance]

I know why I'm perplexed ... with every guy I've had anything to do with since my husband, I've had no problems talking about sex with them. I just don't understand why it's different this time. I can sort of guess, but I don't really know. We didn't even end up having this conversation last night ... I thought about it, but something seemed a bit off with him, so I decided to leave it.

I periodically find that the nuances of communication are the strangest part of navigating relationship territory. We human beings are often full of contrary things - we can talk about this subject (highly intimate) and not about that (not as highly intimate). We almost always filter our interactions, even when think we're not, because we can often see other peoples filters in action, but we're blind to our own.

 

[KimGordon67]

I periodically find that the nuances of communication are the strangest part of navigating relationship territory. We human beings are often full of contrary things - we can talk about this subject (highly intimate) and not about that (not as highly intimate). We almost always filter our interactions, even when think we're not, because we can often see other peoples filters in action, but we're blind to our own.

I think this is the relatively bog-standard 'I find talking about sex in any sort of serious way a bit embarrassing' situation. But apparently it's a little less embarrassing if we're messaging, so I'll just mostly stick to that for a while. I think I'll keep pushing, just a little bit, though ... I used to find talking about this stuff pretty awkward too, and it was really only through other people's perseverance, and actually using the 'safer space' of online interactions, that it got better.

 

[Paul_Chance]

I think this is the relatively bog-standard 'I find talking about sex in any sort of serious way a bit embarrassing' situation. But apparently it's a little less embarrassing if we're messaging, so I'll just mostly stick to that for a while. I think I'll keep pushing, just a little bit, though ... I used to find talking about this stuff pretty awkward too, and it was really only through other people's perseverance, and actually using the 'safer space' of online interactions, that it got better.

I think there is a lot of good in texting/writing as a method of communicating some of our more intimate stuff, sexual and otherwise. That comes back to personal communication styles and the "safe distance" of written communication. For certain people it's just easier to express in writing - they can think, they can re-write, they can edit, all before they hit the send button. I often think I am both more articulate and precise when I write things down. Though I am pretty open in the sexual arena, I have an area in my life that is much easier to communicate in writing (PTSD, the why, the how, the what). Though I can talk about it in person, it can get very difficult, in part because memory is experience (the body reacts to the recall as if it was happening in the moment).

 

[KimGordon67]

I think there is a lot of good in texting/writing as a method of communicating some of our more intimate stuff, sexual and otherwise. That comes back to personal communication styles and the "safe distance" of written communication. For certain people it's just easier to express in writing - they can think, they can re-write, they can edit, all before they hit the send button. I often think I am both more articulate and precise when I write things down. Though I am pretty open in the sexual arena, I have an area in my life that is much easier to communicate in writing (PTSD, the why, the how, the what). Though I can talk about it in person, it can get very difficult, in part because memory is experience (the body reacts to the recall as if it was happening in the moment).

I'm actually beginning to think it's just time. I'm so used to meeting/'meeting' people in already sexualised contexts, or people who just leap in boots & all in the first ten minutes, that I've sort of forgotten that in the normal world, lots of people just take time to feel OK about talking about some stuff with someone else. Ditto with all the 'relationship' stuff really.

 

[KimGordon67]

So ... things are progressing nicely with the local guy. I got myself to (mostly) stop worrying about things that weren't worth worrying about. The apparent contradiction between 'we're only have casual sex and literally nothing else' and the constant messaging is weird, but I'm just letting it go. He's so adamant about some things, like never staying over, but if that's a boundary he needs to feel happy about things, that's fine ... I mean, I'd rather he did stay, but I'm not going to die if I sleep alone. (OK, I guess I might die, because there's no one there to notice if I have seizures in the middle of the night, but that seems unlikely.) I worked out the thing to do is focus on the good things, and stop obsessing over the things I feel like I'm missing out on ... and also be happy that there's no actual bad things. He turns up once a week (sometimes twice, but usually once), we have a few drinks, talk about an incredibly random range of things, and then have a good two or three hours of great sex, and laugh a lot. Really, a lot of people don't get that, including many who are married, so it's all good. I think we're inching into the d/s territory incrementally, which is also fine - I'm probably used to things going a bit quicker, but that's not happening here. He's definitely interested, but also finds it difficult broaching things himself, so I just need to take the lead every now and then ... he definitely responds with enthusiasm when I create the right context.
And he's so much fun ... somehow we ended up exchanging message about custard the other week, and he turned up with some - we didn't end up using it that night, but last night when he turned up, I just poured some in a bowl while I was refilling my wine glass and brought it into the bedroom. He was so happy! My bed is a custardy mess, but fuck that was fun.
And there's been a few instances where he's been doing something and I've just asked him to go a bit harder (running his nails across my skin, for example) ... he's so careful, which is lovely. I told him a couple of weeks ago that if he tells me I'm not allowed to cum until he says I can, the result will be positive, and he totally got that. So I'm encouraged.
LOL ... this is a total mess of a post. I think the general point is that I'm happy.

 

[AngelicaS1780]

And being happy is the most important point.
Thank you for the updates. I am glad to hear that things are going well.
The worry and overthinking are also challenges of mine. However, like you, I am trying to focus on the good things. The custard escapade does sound like fun. I highly recommend a product called the Loving Blanket. Makes cleaning up afterwards so easy.

 

[KimGordon67]

And being happy is the most important point.
Thank you for the updates. I am glad to hear that things are going well.
The worry and overthinking are also challenges of mine. However, like you, I am trying to focus on the good things. The custard escapade does sound like fun. I highly recommend a product called the Loving Blanket. Makes cleaning up afterwards so easy.

He did ask if I wanted to put something on the bed ... but everything's washable, and I'm not very good with anything that interrupts the flow of things. (One of the reasons I hate using condoms.)

I've found therapy really good for the worrying. Overthinking is the bane of my life. How to other people create their seemingly sanguine attitudes towards everything? But thinking about the stuff that is good is a good tactic - I really am learning to turn my head that way when I start inventing problems. This situation is better than previous ones as well, because there really isn't any 'bad' stuff. I don't feel like any aspect of my soul is being sucked out of me (which pretty much describes the relationship with the ex-sociopath). It's just fun, and all he wants from me is a few hours once or twice a week, and to see how many times he can make me cum.

 

[MrRetro]

He did ask if I wanted to put something on the bed ... but everything's washable, and I'm not very good with anything that interrupts the flow of things. (One of the reasons I hate using condoms.)

I've found therapy really good for the worrying. Overthinking is the bane of my life. How to other people create their seemingly sanguine attitudes towards everything? But thinking about the stuff that is good is a good tactic - I really am learning to turn my head that way when I start inventing problems. This situation is better than previous ones as well, because there really isn't any 'bad' stuff. I don't feel like any aspect of my soul is being sucked out of me (which pretty much describes the relationship with the ex-sociopath). It's just fun, and all he wants from me is a few hours once or twice a week, and to see how many times he can make me cum.

Totally understandable Kim, flow is everything! I’m glad you’re in a good place and seem happy..

 

[KimGordon67]

Coming up for three months of pretty much regular weekly sex ... with the same person!
It's weird having something that's pretty frequent and ongoing but totally casual ... well, weird for me. Still working out how to manage that - had a minor freak out a couple of weeks ago, and honestly didn't expect to ever see him again, but apparently it's OK if people are dicks every now and then. Still finding some things a bit strange (why can't we eat a meal together? why can't he spend the night here?) ... but I'm hardly in a position to comment on other people being strange. And it's sort of liberating having a 'thing' where we don't 'do things for each other'. Sometimes I find it irritating, like when I'm hauling around some particularly heavy thing on my own and thinking 'why tf isn't Dave here giving me a hand with this?', but it's also sort of good to not have another potential source of friction. And I like that we're just spending time together because we like spending time together, not because anyone 'wants' something, other than to get laid. (Yes, if we did get to the point of helping each other with stuff, that would be cool too, but a different kind of cool ... mostly I'm just discovering that things that would normally make me go 'Wah! Why doesn't he like me enough to help me with the heavy things???' actually have a positive side to them as well.)

And the sex continues to be great. We still haven't really moved into the kinky fuckery, but I think we're getting there, incrementally. He seems to enjoy inflicting a bit of pain, which is great ... my breasts almost always end up with a bit of bruising. Which is going to be interesting, as today's the first day I'm seeing someone else ... the guy I was seeing a bit of last year. So weird that it's taken THIS long for me to actually move into really not being monogamous. Maybe because there's finally two people around who are obviously absolutely fine with it? Maybe because I just needed to wait until I was in the right headspace? Who knows ...

 

[cascadiabound]

happy for you Kim.
it is lovely to see you tug and pull with yourself as you feel your way through this. Thanks for sharing.

a little jelly.

 

[KimGordon67]

happy for you Kim.
it is lovely to see you tug and pull with yourself as you feel your way through this. Thanks for sharing.

a little jelly.

Don't be too jelly ... turns out last night's 'date' was a bit of a fail. I just found myself getting mildly irritated most of the evening, and then had what I would consider pretty average sex. I wouldn't have even bothered with the sex, but he lives over a two hour drive away, so it just seemed rude to send him home after dinner. But I won't be seeing him again.

 

[cascadiabound]

Don't be too jelly ... turns out last night's 'date' was a bit of a fail. I just found myself getting mildly irritated most of the evening, and then had what I would consider pretty average sex. I wouldn't have even bothered with the sex, but he lives over a two hour drive away, so it just seemed rude to send him home after dinner. But I won't be seeing him again.

This made me laugh out loud. Not the date fail part, but that you decided it was too rude to send him home without sex. You are too kind. I would have sent him home blue balls and all.

 

[KimGordon67]

This made me laugh out loud. Not the date fail part, but that you decided it was too rude to send him home without sex. You are too kind. I would have sent him home blue balls and all.

It's a bit ridiculous, really, in 2021 that I've had what I guess is 'obligation sex'. I think I was partly hoping it might be really good and everything would be great ... but no.
And it is a really long drive, and we had been drinking.

I'm not even sure if he realised I was irritated. This morning he was all holding hands and 'let's go for brunch'.
Which I ended up paying for.

 

[cascadiabound]

It's a bit ridiculous, really, in 2021 that I've had what I guess is 'obligation sex'. I think I was partly hoping it might be really good and everything would be great ... but no.
And it is a really long drive, and we had been drinking.

I'm not even sure if he realised I was irritated. This morning he was all holding hands and 'let's go for brunch'.
Which I ended up paying for.

omg. AND you paid for brunch. smh.
I hope the food was good - no make it I hope the food was excellent.
Also - I am betting he thought the sex was awesome and he is hoping for a repeat performance.

 

[KimGordon67]

omg. AND you paid for brunch. smh.
I hope the food was good - no make it I hope the food was excellent.
Also - I am betting he thought the sex was awesome and he is hoping for a repeat performance.

Sigh.
I'm trying to work out you tell someone you're just not that into them more. It's not like I can say 'I'm leaving you' because there's no actual relationship.
I guess this is why people just ghost other people.

 

[cascadiabound]

Sigh.
I'm trying to work out you tell someone you're just not that into them more. It's not like I can say 'I'm leaving you' because there's no actual relationship.
I guess this is why people just ghost other people.

It is difficult to be plain about these things, especially if you are a kind person.
In this case, I recommend you be really plain.
Thanks for the date, I appreciate you driving so far to meet up with me, but honestly, I am not interested in a repeat. Life is short - too short for me to waste your time thinking that something might work out between us, 'cause it is not going to.

 

[KimGordon67]

It is difficult to be plain about these things, especially if you are a kind person.
In this case, I recommend you be really plain.
Thanks for the date, I appreciate you driving so far to meet up with me, but honestly, I am not interested in a repeat. Life is short - too short for me to waste your time thinking that something might work out between us, 'cause it is not going to.

I'll see. He's seeing someone else fairly regularly, so maybe I can just fade out without having to make any pronouncements.

 

[Paul_Chance]

I'll see. He's seeing someone else fairly regularly, so maybe I can just fade out without having to make any pronouncements.

Once you remove the expectation of monogamy and begin to embrace non-monogamous relationships as the baseline there are a lot of other things that slowly adjust. One of which is you're able to move into a mind set where "relationships change" at a fairly fluid level without all the associated trauma and guilt.

The Japanese have a saying "Expecting nothing, never weep when you are betrayed". What they mean is to "never weep when your expectations are not met". We're able to do this because we hold those expectations with an understanding that they're not cast in stone, so when an expectation is not met, we can just shrug it off. (Don't get too fixated on the betrayal part of the quote, it's a poor translation, but the closest English comes.)

In terms of what it means for the daily course of our lives - in western society the expectation is often that the partner will meet all our expectations, from the sexual arena to the mundane arena (like moving furniture) and so we experience disappointment when it doesn't happen. By being non-monogamous we have the opportunity to drop those expectations and enjoy the relationship for what it is. The little frictions of a relationship become less important or unimportant, which allows us to focus on the aspects of the relationship that are most satisfying to us and stop trying to change (either our behavior or our partners behavior) to "fit the mold".

Eventually you'll find that the non-monogamous relationships morph into true polyamory (mutual love) or they don't - and that's okay.

 

[cookiecat]

I'll see. He's seeing someone else fairly regularly, so maybe I can just fade out without having to make any pronouncements.

So 3/26 post was pretty good, 3/27 post was bleh. Yikes! Where do things stand now? Did you fade away?

 

[cookiecat]

Once you remove the expectation of monogamy and begin to embrace non-monogamous relationships as the baseline there are a lot of other things that slowly adjust. One of which is you're able to move into a mind set where "relationships change" at a fairly fluid level without all the associated trauma and guilt.

The Japanese have a saying "Expecting nothing, never weep when you are betrayed". What they mean is to "never weep when your expectations are not met". We're able to do this because we hold those expectations with an understanding that they're not cast in stone, so when an expectation is not met, we can just shrug it off. (Don't get too fixated on the betrayal part of the quote, it's a poor translation, but the closest English comes.)

In terms of what it means for the daily course of our lives - in western society the expectation is often that the partner will meet all our expectations, from the sexual arena to the mundane arena (like moving furniture) and so we experience disappointment when it doesn't happen. By being non-monogamous we have the opportunity to drop those expectations and enjoy the relationship for what it is. The little frictions of a relationship become less important or unimportant, which allows us to focus on the aspects of the relationship that are most satisfying to us and stop trying to change (either our behavior or our partners behavior) to "fit the mold".

Eventually you'll find that the non-monogamous relationships morph into true polyamory (mutual love) or they don't - and that's okay.

Am in a new relationship and have been thinking a lot about expectations. This is really one of the best posts I've read in a while related to the subject of expectations.

On a side note, I went into this relationship with a monogamous mindset. As of late, am twirling around the idea of am open relationship. Playing with others. He hasn't suggested it. It's just in my head, dancing around. I don't know why. Something to carefully explore as we move forward.

 

[KimGordon67]

Am in a new relationship and have been thinking a lot about expectations. This is really one of the best posts I've read in a while related to the subject of expectations.

On a side note, I went into this relationship with a monogamous mindset. As of late, am twirling around the idea of am open relationship. Playing with others. He hasn't suggested it. It's just in my head, dancing around. I don't know why. Something to carefully explore as we move forward.

Hurrah for the new relationship!

I feel like I have a lot less (fewer?) expectations than I did even a couple of years ago. That's maybe because I'm not looking for a life partner. But I'm also trying to focus on the good with the people I get involved, rather than constantly trying to improve things. I joked with my therapist last time that, with this guy I'm seeing at the moment, it's somewhere between 80-85% ideal for me, and that's an A grade (maybe an A-). And, as Paul notes, there's bound to someone else out there who can provide the other 15-20% (but probably not entirely be 100% either). The other thing I realised was that a lot of my trying to 'fix things' in previous relationships was actually me trying to change people. And really that never works - the only person you can actually change is yourself, so I'm putting my energy into that instead.

Having said that, I'm actually seeing the local guy this evening to have 'a talk'. The whole constant stream of messaging (porn, flirting, 'how's the weather', etc) in spite of his statement that this was 'just casual fucking' was confusing enough, but was sort of cute as well so I was ok with being confused, but then suddenly that stopped a few weeks ago, which is just more confusing ... and not in a good way. I really don't deal with confusing or uncertainty very well, and that's not something that I'm going to change this week, so I think I need to establish a few groundrules around that. If he can have stupid rules about not staying the night, I can a 'this is how we manage the messaging' rule too.

 

[KimGordon67]

So 3/26 post was pretty good, 3/27 post was bleh. Yikes! Where do things stand now? Did you fade away?

I just saw this after I wrote the above ... I think my dates are different to yours, so I'm not entirely sure which posts you mean, but maybe they're about different people. Things with the local guy are still ... good (see above). The awful evening and entirely mediocre sex was with someone else - the guy I was seeing a bit of last year. I definitely won't be seeing him again. He hasn't been in touch since he was here, so maybe he feels the same way ... which feels a lot like I'm ghosting him, but if he makes contact, I will explain that it's just not working for me any more.

 

[Paul_Chance]

I just saw this after I wrote the above ... I think my dates are different to yours, so I'm not entirely sure which posts you mean, but maybe they're about different people. Things with the local guy are still ... good (see above). The awful evening and entirely mediocre sex was with someone else - the guy I was seeing a bit of last year. I definitely won't be seeing him again. He hasn't been in touch since he was here, so maybe he feels the same way ... which feels a lot like I'm ghosting him, but if he makes contact, I will explain that it's just not working for me any more.

It might feel a bit like you're ghosting him, but the thing is - it's only ghosting someone when they're trying to get a hold of you and you're just ignoring them. Otherwise it's just the natural end of an encounter. There are times when you don't contact someone and they don't try and find out what's going on and the silence descends. That is just how it ends sometimes. (I also always say it's a good tip - it takes a freaking minute or two to message and say "Hey, I've just been sent to Tokyo, I'll let you know when I get there and explain it later." LOL - we've got a freaking probe on Mars and IT can find the time to call regularly. Any human excuse falls short after that.)

 

[KimGordon67]

I ended up finishing things with the local guy ... little bit sad about that, because I quite liked him, and the sex was excellent. I'm copying and pasting out of an email that I wrote ... someone ... about this.

I realised this morning that when we first started seeing each other, and there was this sort of constant stream of messaging in between actually getting together, even thought that was confusing, I was actually OK with it because it was fairly close to what I wanted - drinking & fucking (i.e. the time we spend together) + a little bit more. I really did only want a little bit more - when we talked about this (which we did at the outset), I'd articulated that as going to see a band or having a meal together, but in hindsight I think a lot of things could be that 'little bit more', in this instance fun banter between the drinking&fucking. But then the messaging just stopped. I freaked out about that a little because I (obviously) thought he was losing interest. We actually talked about this a couple of days ago, and he was very reassuring that he hadn't lost interest. But it seems like the absence of messaging is going to be how it is - I messaged him a couple of times yesterday, and just got the same mono-syllabic responses I was getting before we talked. If that is the case, now I've just got drinking&fucking, without the + a little bit more, and I don't think that's really going to work for me. Which is a bummer, because the drinking&fucking is great ... but also without the little bit more, I don't know that I feel enough of a connection for the kinky fuckery to be OK either, and then it's just sex. Good sex, but just sex.​

After I wrote that email, I realised it just isn't going to work, and finished things. I did give him the option of having another go at sorting things out, but he didn't seem inclined to take up that offer. So, trying to focus on the good things - it was at least two months of a heap of fun (before things started going a bit pear shaped), and I learnt a bit about what I want. Or least what I wanted with this guy - not sure if that's transferable, but at least it's good to know that 'fucking+a little bit more' is a thing that might work for me.

At the moment though, I'm just a bit sad.