Kim's poly/kink thread reinvented ...

[KimGordon67]

It might feel a bit like you're ghosting him, but the thing is - it's only ghosting someone when they're trying to get a hold of you and you're just ignoring them. Otherwise it's just the natural end of an encounter. There are times when you don't contact someone and they don't try and find out what's going on and the silence descends. That is just how it ends sometimes. (I also always say it's a good tip - it takes a freaking minute or two to message and say "Hey, I've just been sent to Tokyo, I'll let you know when I get there and explain it later." LOL - we've got a freaking probe on Mars and IT can find the time to call regularly. Any human excuse falls short after that.)

This guy (not the local guy - the other guy) hasn't gotten back to me, so I'm guessing he worked out things were a bit crap.

But your last few sentences are germane for the local guy - when we talked the other night, he said the constant communication that had been there in the first couple of months dropped away because he got busy. But I do sort of call BS on that - no one's so busy that they can't find time to send a couple of nice messages during the day or in the evening. I message people during meetings, before I wake up properly, while I'm waiting for something to cook on the stove, while I'm sitting on the loo ... if you're into someone, you find the time. He just stopped wanting to. So that's that.

 

[Shenanigans90]

I ended up finishing things with the local guy ... little bit sad about that, because I quite liked him, and the sex was excellent. I'm copying and pasting out of an email that I wrote ... someone ... about this.

I realised this morning that when we first started seeing each other, and there was this sort of constant stream of messaging in between actually getting together, even thought that was confusing, I was actually OK with it because it was fairly close to what I wanted - drinking & fucking (i.e. the time we spend together) + a little bit more. I really did only want a little bit more - when we talked about this (which we did at the outset), I'd articulated that as going to see a band or having a meal together, but in hindsight I think a lot of things could be that 'little bit more', in this instance fun banter between the drinking&fucking. But then the messaging just stopped. I freaked out about that a little because I (obviously) thought he was losing interest. We actually talked about this a couple of days ago, and he was very reassuring that he hadn't lost interest. But it seems like the absence of messaging is going to be how it is - I messaged him a couple of times yesterday, and just got the same mono-syllabic responses I was getting before we talked. If that is the case, now I've just got drinking&fucking, without the + a little bit more, and I don't think that's really going to work for me. Which is a bummer, because the drinking&fucking is great ... but also without the little bit more, I don't know that I feel enough of a connection for the kinky fuckery to be OK either, and then it's just sex. Good sex, but just sex.​

After I wrote that email, I realised it just isn't going to work, and finished things. I did give him the option of having another go at sorting things out, but he didn't seem inclined to take up that offer. So, trying to focus on the good things - it was at least two months of a heap of fun (before things started going a bit pear shaped), and I learnt a bit about what I want. Or least what I wanted with this guy - not sure if that's transferable, but at least it's good to know that 'fucking+a little bit more' is a thing that might work for me.

At the moment though, I'm just a bit sad.

Sorry to hear this Kim. Good luck moving forward and I hope you find what you are looking for.

 

[cookiecat]

Kim
Took me a minute to figure out the sequence of things.

I have to agree when there is a pattern to communication and it suddenly stops, it's weird. Red flags abound.

I hate that it puts me on the defensive. Kim, I agree with you. It's like that book/ movie "He's just not that into you". No matter how busy, someone can find a second to text.

I feel like I should start a "How needy is too needy" thread. I'm genuinely curious. After weeks of hot and heavy messaging, calling, checking in and then nothing - isn't that a sign in itself? Fingers broke? Fell into quicksand? Wife caught you? Just no interest? I'd rather know something. A little finality.

As Paul said, sometimes things just drift off and end. Nothing earth shaking.

After being solitary (mostly by choice) for the last 4 years, I crave companionship and cock and messaging and a movie. Not sure how much more, though.

It feels good to finally want these things but I have no desire for the tap dancing that goes with the angst of figuring out EMOTIONS.

 

[KimGordon67]

Kim
Took me a minute to figure out the sequence of things.

I have to agree when there is a pattern to communication and it suddenly stops, it's weird. Red flags abound.

I hate that it puts me on the defensive. Kim, I agree with you. It's like that book/ movie "He's just not that into you". No matter how busy, someone can find a second to text.

I feel like I should start a "How needy is too needy" thread. I'm genuinely curious. After weeks of hot and heavy messaging, calling, checking in and then nothing - isn't that a sign in itself? Fingers broke? Fell into quicksand? Wife caught you? Just no interest? I'd rather know something. A little finality.

As Paul said, sometimes things just drift off and end. Nothing earth shaking.

After being solitary (mostly by choice) for the last 4 years, I crave companionship and cock and messaging and a movie. Not sure how much more, though.

It feels good to finally want these things but I have no desire for the tap dancing that goes with the angst of figuring out EMOTIONS.

Yes, the emotions are a dilemma. I was talking to a friend last night, and she said maybe I should just date guys who I think are dicks, so I won't get attached to them. It is one approach ... but the problem is, that's not a heap of a fun, and the sex is usually mediocre at best. I'm a bit frustrated in this instance, because it felt like we were so close to wanting the same thing. And because I don't know what made him change from obviously being into me, to not being into me. I don't think it was anything I did, or at least nothing that I can do anything about it, so I'm not trying to work out what I did 'wrong' (which is definitely progress for me). Now it's been a few days, I'm at the 'life's too short to not try' stage, and thinking I should send a 'what about if we try X Y or Z' message, or a 'are you sure this is what you want' message ... but I'm not going to. Because that is too needy. I left things open enough that he knows if he wants to talk about anything, he can. I really need to just leave it at that, instead of trying to fix things.

I think trying to navigate in these 'something, but not a lot' waters is tricky. It's like people know what 'proper' relationships look like, but these things are so amorphous, and it's easy for people to misunderstand each other. I actually find it's easy for me to misunderstand me ... I'm trying to communicate things as clearly as possible, but that's not always working out, because what I think I want turns out to not be quite right.

Gah!

 

[wicked woman]

Kim, I stayed up way too late last night and spent ages reading both this and part 1 of this thread. Thank you so much for sharing your journey. Yes, you write well, but even more than that, I love your honesty and thoughtful analysis/discussion of what you're thinking/feeling based on whatever the current facts are. I enjoyed reading how you rationalize to yourself, certain situations. (Rationalize is a good thing in my world.) Perhaps because I've come through my own journey of realizing that I am polyamorous, by nature, regardless of whatever relationship I might be in and the joy of a D/s relationship when there is lots of communication, trust, understanding, love and connection. Not saying our journeys have taken us on similar paths, but there are definitely moments that I can identify with and 'hear' your feelings and thoughts. So thank you. Even if people don't always comment, know that your time and sharing has been valued.

 

[KimGordon67]

Kim, I stayed up way too late last night and spent ages reading both this and part 1 of this thread. Thank you so much for sharing your journey. Yes, you write well, but even more than that, I love your honesty and thoughtful analysis/discussion of what you're thinking/feeling based on whatever the current facts are. I enjoyed reading how you rationalize to yourself, certain situations. (Rationalize is a good thing in my world.) Perhaps because I've come through my own journey of realizing that I am polyamorous, by nature, regardless of whatever relationship I might be in and the joy of a D/s relationship when there is lots of communication, trust, understanding, love and connection. Not saying our journeys have taken us on similar paths, but there are definitely moments that I can identify with and 'hear' your feelings and thoughts. So thank you. Even if people don't always comment, know that your time and sharing has been valued.

Thanks so much ... and sorry for keeping you up! I especially appreciate this given that we're so obviously on the same page about many things, as was evident in our responses in that guy's weird 'journal' thread. WTF is up with that?

It seems like the poly aspect of my life will be forever hypothetical in all but the most fleeting sense. But I guess it's about intent as much as anything - gay people don't stop being gay just because they're not getting laid at any given moment.

Now I'm off to weed through the slew of largely ridiculous matches that came through on Tinder last night. Tinder just seems like a wasteland at the moment ... maybe I should try Bumble.

 

[wicked woman]

Thanks so much ... and sorry for keeping you up! I especially appreciate this given that we're so obviously on the same page about many things, as was evident in our responses in that guy's weird 'journal' thread. WTF is up with that?

It seems like the poly aspect of my life will be forever hypothetical in all but the most fleeting sense. But I guess it's about intent as much as anything - gay people don't stop being gay just because they're not getting laid at any given moment.

I think we assumed a newbie wanted to learn and despite his protestations that he does, his replies demonstrate that it's not the case. So one by one we come to the conclusion that we can only control ourselves and it's not worth our time. Sad, but I still wish them well. Just not holding my breath.

Again, you've got it. It's the realization that poly is how we choose to exist, whether it's our current reality or not. I remember how freeing it was to come to the realization that I could, and wanted to, ethically, romantically love more than one person at the same time. Finding the right people, at the right time, and co-ordinating that with an unaccepting world is a completely different issue.

Enjoy your Tinder.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Thanks so much ... and sorry for keeping you up! I especially appreciate this given that we're so obviously on the same page about many things, as was evident in our responses in that guy's weird 'journal' thread. WTF is up with that?

It seems like the poly aspect of my life will be forever hypothetical in all but the most fleeting sense. But I guess it's about intent as much as anything - gay people don't stop being gay just because they're not getting laid at any given moment.

I've been poly-with-one-partner for the last four years. But the 'poly' is still very much part of me.

 

[KimGordon67]

I've been poly-with-one-partner for the last four years. But the 'poly' is still very much part of me.

I've been trying to work out 'poly' constitutes an actual identity for a while ... I guess this all tends to suggest it does.

 

[phil1955]

Thanks so much ... and sorry for keeping you up! I especially appreciate this given that we're so obviously on the same page about many things, as was evident in our responses in that guy's weird 'journal' thread. WTF is up with that?

It seems like the poly aspect of my life will be forever hypothetical in all but the most fleeting sense. But I guess it's about intent as much as anything - gay people don't stop being gay just because they're not getting laid at any given moment.

Now I'm off to weed through the slew of largely ridiculous matches that came through on Tinder last night. Tinder just seems like a wasteland at the moment ... maybe I should try Bumble.

I read through your posts with interest and would just offer one comment. There are plenty of jerks in the world but I suspect the poly lifestyle attracts more than average. Unfortunately there are guys and perhaps some women as well that once they get what they wanted, they will fade away. I think you might need to be prepared to take some chances and do a lot of weeding.

 

[KimGordon67]

I read through your posts with interest and would just offer one comment. There are plenty of jerks in the world but I suspect the poly lifestyle attracts more than average. Unfortunately there are guys and perhaps some women as well that once they get what they wanted, they will fade away. I think you might need to be prepared to take some chances and do a lot of weeding.

I'm pretty good at eliminating people before I even bother meeting them. I think the ones you describe often push to meet asap, whereas I prefer to spend a bit of time messaging to see if it's worth my effort to actually meet physically. (As some meme I read somewhere said, 'Woman on terrible date thinks 'I shaved my legs for this?') I also don't really market myself at poly - 'non-monogamous' is in my profiles, but it's not the first thing (and honestly, half the guys who swipe right don't even know what that means).
But yeah ... some people I just find puzzling. Like, this local guy - we were so well suited in so many ways, but he just didn't seem to be prepared to make any compromises in terms of his 'ideal' for having a ... well, not a 'relationship', but a thing. I get that some people don't make compromises, and that's their choice. But we're in a pretty sparsely populated area - the chances of him find another 40+ woman who's single, likes to drink, doesn't want to get married, doesn't care what he does the rest of the time, is good to have a laugh with, and gives great blow jobs AND is less than a hour's drive away is pretty slim ... good luck to him.

 

[ultramarineblue]

Yes, the emotions are a dilemma. I was talking to a friend last night, and she said maybe I should just date guys who I think are dicks, so I won't get attached to them. It is one approach ... but the problem is, that's not a heap of a fun, and the sex is usually mediocre at best. I'm a bit frustrated in this instance, because it felt like we were so close to wanting the same thing. And because I don't know what made him change from obviously being into me, to not being into me. I don't think it was anything I did, or at least nothing that I can do anything about it, so I'm not trying to work out what I did 'wrong' (which is definitely progress for me). Now it's been a few days, I'm at the 'life's too short to not try' stage, and thinking I should send a 'what about if we try X Y or Z' message, or a 'are you sure this is what you want' message ... but I'm not going to. Because that is too needy. I left things open enough that he knows if he wants to talk about anything, he can. I really need to just leave it at that, instead of trying to fix things.

I think trying to navigate in these 'something, but not a lot' waters is tricky. It's like people know what 'proper' relationships look like, but these things are so amorphous, and it's easy for people to misunderstand each other. I actually find it's easy for me to misunderstand me ... I'm trying to communicate things as clearly as possible, but that's not always working out, because what I think I want turns out to not be quite right.

Gah!

I completely feel this. I struggle to leave things be because I'll feel as though I didn't actually explain myself well. But like you and others said, people find time to message. I get busy or moody and may not message a lot but I still message. For me, it's a matter of being a friend too instead of someone that is just used.

 

[KimGordon67]

I completely feel this. I struggle to leave things be because I'll feel as though I didn't actually explain myself well. But like you and others said, people find time to message. I get busy or moody and may not message a lot but I still message. For me, it's a matter of being a friend too instead of someone that is just used.

I know with me it's because I'm hoping for a specific outcome, and I feel like if I could just make myself totally clear, he would obviously do whatever was necessary for that outcome to happen. It's crap though. It's just another string in the 'this all fell apart because of something I did' bow, or at least it is for me. I'm really trying to stop blaming myself for things not working out.

I do wonder if I would have been OK if he just hadn't started with all the messaging in the first instance. Would we have ended up with a thing that had a different and more sustainable dynamic? Was it just that I got used to the messaging, so when it stopped, I felt like something had been taken away ... I mean, I did feel like that, but if I hadn't had the chance to get used to it, would things have been different?
I guess I'll never really know.

 

[cookiecat]

I know with me it's because I'm hoping for a specific outcome, and I feel like if I could just make myself totally clear, he would obviously do whatever was necessary for that outcome to happen. It's crap though. It's just another string in the 'this all fell apart because of something I did' bow, or at least it is for me. I'm really trying to stop blaming myself for things not working out.

I do wonder if I would have been OK if he just hadn't started with all the messaging in the first instance. Would we have ended up with a thing that had a different and more sustainable dynamic? Was it just that I got used to the messaging, so when it stopped, I felt like something had been taken away ... I mean, I did feel like that, but if I hadn't had the chance to get used to it, would things have been different?
I guess I'll never really know.

It's really interesting about the messaging. That's how new guy and I started. We are in different states.

It was really intense and fun for 3 months. We met the fourth month. I committed the online sin of mistaking pussy lust for actual feelings. Talk about getting ahead of myself.

When we met face to face, the chemistry was there. But so was the reality of ---- everything.

We had a great time. We're still talking. I'm meeting him again this week!

But yeah, something is missing. That daily messaging. Phone calls. We still talk daily but something has shifted a bit. Something is missing.

 

[KimGordon67]

It's really interesting about the messaging. That's how new guy and I started. We are in different states.

It was really intense and fun for 3 months. We met the fourth month. I committed the online sin of mistaking pussy lust for actual feelings. Talk about getting ahead of myself.

When we met face to face, the chemistry was there. But so was the reality of ---- everything.

We had a great time. We're still talking. I'm meeting him again this week!

But yeah, something is missing. That daily messaging. Phone calls. We still talk daily but something has shifted a bit. Something is missing.

I was thinking about this after I first read your message. I think that modern tech has meant those first few days/weeks/months can quite easily get a bit obsessive. A bazillion years ago, when you first met someone, they phoned. On a phone that was attached a wall. In a specific house (or workplace). Sometimes those phone calls could get long and intense, but they were usually limited to specific times, and definitely only when you were in the house that had the wall in it to which the phone was attached.
Now, someone can be all up in your day constantly. And that can be really nice. And you can send pictures and all sorts of other things. And if they call, it doesn't matter where you are, you'll be able to answer. And obviously each time one of you receives a message, you get that little endorphin hit and it's all lovely. Sometimes you can maintain that - like, with TG (the guy in Vegas, discussed at length way back in this thread, or even maybe the previous one), it was a whole year of that sort of thing, and it never really waned. But other times, it can be harder to maintain that for any length of time - and I suspect some people are either better at it, or want it more than others. So I guess when it fades out, if it's not replaced by something else (like spending more time actually together), it can feel like you've lost something. Or at least, that's how I felt.

Maybe I'll try to put a 'messaging platform ban' on the next connection I make. Although I'm still so fucking sad, I can't really imagine that that'll ever happen again. (This message sent to you from the depths of my self pity hole, from which I will no doubt emerge sometime soon.)

Hope you have fun with the next meeting!

 

[tubby424]

I'm pretty good at eliminating people before I even bother meeting them. I think the ones you describe often push to meet asap, whereas I prefer to spend a bit of time messaging to see if it's worth my effort to actually meet physically. (As some meme I read somewhere said, 'Woman on terrible date thinks 'I shaved my legs for this?') I also don't really market myself at poly - 'non-monogamous' is in my profiles, but it's not the first thing (and honestly, half the guys who swipe right don't even know what that means).
But yeah ... some people I just find puzzling. Like, this local guy - we were so well suited in so many ways, but he just didn't seem to be prepared to make any compromises in terms of his 'ideal' for having a ... well, not a 'relationship', but a thing. I get that some people don't make compromises, and that's their choice. But we're in a pretty sparsely populated area - the chances of him find another 40+ woman who's single, likes to drink, doesn't want to get married, doesn't care what he does the rest of the time, is good to have a laugh with, and gives great blow jobs AND is less than a hour's drive away is pretty slim ... good luck to him.

Let me get this right. Your single, like to drink, not interested in marriage and you give great blowjobs ?? An angel right here on earth !! Maybe the guy was just plain stupid

 

[KimGordon67]

Let me get this right. Your single, like to drink, not interested in marriage and you give great blowjobs ?? An angel right here on earth !! Maybe the guy was just plain stupid

Lol. Yeah, maybe

 

[ultramarineblue]

You're so good at expressing your thoughts. My luck is someone will disappear for a while and then pop back up like there wasn't a month or so of zero contact. I think sometimes people also just find a new interest and the new is what they are more attracted to than anything else.

 

[KimGordon67]

You're so good at expressing your thoughts. My luck is someone will disappear for a while and then pop back up like there wasn't a month or so of zero contact. I think sometimes people also just find a new interest and the new is what they are more attracted to than anything else.

Ironically, I have some work planned on my house that will happen 'sometime in the next year' (getting builders here is incredibly difficult), and he'll probably end up doing a part of that job.

You might be right, but I find that puzzling as well. We definitely had some stuff to explore sexually, and it was the sort of thing that take a while to get to - like, you have to trust the other person and feel comfortable with them. Surely that would be novelty enough, without getting distracted by some other shiny thing?

I'm really resisting the urge to send an email saying 'look, I only need this tiny extra thing, and then you get to have ALL this other cool stuff' (as noted above). I can't work out if it's worth a shot (given that I really have nothing left to lose), or would just be needy and annoying.

 

[Paul_Chance]

So, I was thinking about that dilemma off and on yesterday and this morning.

I don't have an easy answer. I've kind of experienced that all over the spectrum, at various times in my llfe.

I think my approach has changed as I have grown older and now I am more will to send that "last communication" with the dividing issue and say straight up "I need this...whatever this is" and let the chips fall where they will. If they don't respond, consider the door closed and move on. I they do respond with a variation on "no", then close the door and move on.

A handful of times over the years I have sent that "last message", from the POV of the person leaving the relationship and from the POV of the person being left. Once I've gotten one. Three times it worked and probably another three or four it - well, it worked, but it worked to firmly close the door.

Now that I am older and wiser (hahaha - okay, that may not be true), I tend to be more sensitive to when the diminishing curve starts to happen and just asking the question straight up. I have three long relationships (friendly lovers) from whom the ebb and flow has moved across years. But, for the most part when the ebb tide hits the end of that particular journey is approaching.

 

[KimGordon67]

So, I was thinking about that dilemma off and on yesterday and this morning.

I don't have an easy answer. I've kind of experienced that all over the spectrum, at various times in my llfe.

I think my approach has changed as I have grown older and now I am more will to send that "last communication" with the dividing issue and say straight up "I need this...whatever this is" and let the chips fall where they will. If they don't respond, consider the door closed and move on. I they do respond with a variation on "no", then close the door and move on.

A handful of times over the years I have sent that "last message", from the POV of the person leaving the relationship and from the POV of the person being left. Once I've gotten one. Three times it worked and probably another three or four it - well, it worked, but it worked to firmly close the door.

Now that I am older and wiser (hahaha - okay, that may not be true), I tend to be more sensitive to when the diminishing curve starts to happen and just asking the question straight up. I have three long relationships (friendly lovers) from whom the ebb and flow has moved across years. But, for the most part when the ebb tide hits the end of that particular journey is approaching.

Yeah, I sort of feel like I screwed up the 'proper talk' we had because at that point I thought all I needed was reassurance that the waning communication wasn't because he'd lost interest, and it was only afterwards that I realised that I needed ... well, something. The '+a little bit more' in some shape or form. So I never really said that to him. He has a pretty low limit for 'serious talks', I guess because for him that equates to a 'serious relationship', and I let myself go along with that.

I might email him in a couple of weeks and say that - nothing left to lose, life's too short, etc. But not right now. I'm definitely still a bit too raw, and whatever I say will just seem needy. Even if it's just me who sees it as needy. I'm genuinely surprised this has been so difficult - I obviously got a more involved than I thought I had. Sigh.

 

[Islander55]

Not knowing all the details makes giving advice rather tricky. I will offer one bit of wisdom given to me many years ago. Never chase a man. Let him know you might be available but if he does not meet you half way, move on. I have usually followed this rule but not always. After all the primary purpose of rules is to have something to break.

 

[KimGordon67]

Not knowing all the details makes giving advice rather tricky. I will offer one bit of wisdom given to me many years ago. Never chase a man. Let him know you might be available but if he does not meet you half way, move on. I have usually followed this rule but not always. After all the primary purpose of rules is to have something to break.

Yes, this is true ... but on the other hand, the last exchange I had with him was pretty much 'this isn't working for me any more'. I have a habit of making definitive statements, and then only realising some times afterwards that I my actual feelings weren't quite so definite.
I don't know ... at the moment I'm doing nothing, because that's the safest.

 

[ultramarineblue]

Yes, this is true ... but on the other hand, the last exchange I had with him was pretty much 'this isn't working for me any more'. I have a habit of making definitive statements, and then only realising some times afterwards that I my actual feelings weren't quite so definite.
I don't know ... at the moment I'm doing nothing, because that's the safest.

The little bit of extra isn't serious. It's fun friendship chat. I also sometimes wonder if maybe the other guy was starting to feel too serious and he scared himself off. It's just so hard. I completely understand not wanting something serious and how hard it is to convince a guy of that. One guy thought I was being possessive when I asked if he had met anyone fun lately. Ummm, nope, I was actually hoping he'd been able to find someone else to have fun with at times. Plus I kinda like hearing the stories of other fun times with others.

I wish there was an easy answer as to when to or if to message.

 

[KimGordon67]

The little bit of extra isn't serious. It's fun friendship chat. I also sometimes wonder if maybe the other guy was starting to feel too serious and he scared himself off. It's just so hard. I completely understand not wanting something serious and how hard it is to convince a guy of that. One guy thought I was being possessive when I asked if he had met anyone fun lately. Ummm, nope, I was actually hoping he'd been able to find someone else to have fun with at times. Plus I kinda like hearing the stories of other fun times with others.

I wish there was an easy answer as to when to or if to message.

The 'he started having feelings' theory is a fairly popular one.

I guess there's just a weird paradox between keeping things casual while also communicating enough that everyone is clear about things.

Of course, today I was leaving town to come up to the city for the night, and saw him as I was driving past the gas station. I swear I've never seen him just around town before. Argh.

I think leaving things for a bit is the best thing though. I need to feel a bit less fragile, so if I do get in touch, I'm doing it from a position of 'I'm too fucking awesome to be treated like a convenience'. Rather than my current 'why am I not good enough' hole.

The possessive story is funny. I think a lot of people just don't believe you when you say that you're cool with them seeing other people.