Kim's poly/kink thread reinvented ...

[KimGordon67]

The 'he started having feelings' theory is a fairly popular one.

I guess there's just a weird paradox between keeping things casual while also communicating enough that everyone is clear about things.

Of course, today I was leaving town to come up to the city for the night, and saw him as I was driving past the gas station. I swear I've never seen him just around town before. Argh.

I think leaving things for a bit is the best thing though. I need to feel a bit less fragile, so if I do get in touch, I'm doing it from a position of 'I'm too fucking awesome to be treated like a convenience'. Rather than my current 'why am I not good enough' hole.

The possessive story is funny. I think a lot of people just don't believe you when you say that you're cool with them seeing other people.

I just remembered the funniest bit about this event - it's a very small gas station, really just two pumps on the side of the road outside a general store, so when you're filling up, you're essentially standing on the side of the road. LG was looking at the cars coming towards him while he was standing there - I really can't tell if he recognised my car (there's a considerable number of cars that are exactly the same as mine in the small town we're in), or if he actually saw me ... but of course, I did have a head full of hair rollers (the only way I've found to tame my mess of hair), which I'd put in before I left home so they work their magic on the 2+ hour drive I had to do.
Because if there's one image you want to leave with the ex-lover you're hoping to reconcile with, it's you festooned with hair rollers.
Sigh.

 

[ultramarineblue]

I just remembered the funniest bit about this event - it's a very small gas station, really just two pumps on the side of the road outside a general store, so when you're filling up, you're essentially standing on the side of the road. LG was looking at the cars coming towards him while he was standing there - I really can't tell if he recognised my car (there's a considerable number of cars that are exactly the same as mine in the small town we're in), or if he actually saw me ... but of course, I did have a head full of hair rollers (the only way I've found to tame my mess of hair), which I'd put in before I left home so they work their magic on the 2+ hour drive I had to do.
Because if there's one image you want to leave with the ex-lover you're hoping to reconcile with, it's you festooned with hair rollers.
Sigh.

That sounds completely like something that would happen to me. Running into someone unexpectedly can be kind of disconcerting. I've had the experience of seeing someone and wondering if they saw me but I've also had the experience of running into someone where there was no doubt we saw and recognized one another. The awkward hello was too funny. I wasn't trying to bump into him at all. I was in town for a workshop and he had recommended the hotel I was at. It just happened to be near the neighborhood store and I needed water and snacks. I'm respectful of boundaries. I wouldn't have said hello except he said it first and I went on about getting what I needed.

I think he would be very lucky to continue with you. As far as developing feelings, I've wondered that about a few of the guys I've played with but I general quickly dismiss it because unless they tell me, I don't want to assume. I recognize it as a possibility but also realize there can be many other reasons as well. Then I just try to think about other stuff so I can feel better about me. Or I fall into the pit of wondering what I did wrong.

 

[KimGordon67]

Well, I emailed him. I was going to wait until next week, but I just decided I couldn't be arsed with another week of feeling like I'm in this weird limbo. Now I know I've done what I could to get something fun working again, and if it doesn't work out, I can just draw a line under that and move on.

 

[KimGordon67]

... and I have literally no idea what to make of his response. He messaged saying we could definitely go back to the drinking&fucking, without really mentioning what I said about need to not feel like a 'convenience', and made some joke about me changing my minds a few more times before we catch up next week.
I messaged back a few hours later saying the only reason I'd change my mind is if I kept feeling like he was only seeing me because I was just around the corner. Possibly sounded a bit bitchier than I really meant it to, but I just needed to make it clear that what I said was what I meant, not just me 'venting' so we could then go back to however things were. And honestly just feel atm like I'm a bit sick of him calling all the shots. What I want/need/whatever isn't unreasonable.

So ... yeah. At least I feel like I was clear in what I want and, like Paul said, the door can close now or not.

LOL - this SO FAR AWAY from the intended aim of this thread. Where's the kinky fuckery? Where's the trying to work out how to maintain more than one relationship at once? I'm disappointed in myself.

 

[ultramarineblue]

... and I have literally no idea what to make of his response. He messaged saying we could definitely go back to the drinking&fucking, without really mentioning what I said about need to not feel like a 'convenience', and made some joke about me changing my minds a few more times before we catch up next week.
I messaged back a few hours later saying the only reason I'd change my mind is if I kept feeling like he was only seeing me because I was just around the corner. Possibly sounded a bit bitchier than I really meant it to, but I just needed to make it clear that what I said was what I meant, not just me 'venting' so we could then go back to however things were. And honestly just feel atm like I'm a bit sick of him calling all the shots. What I want/need/whatever isn't unreasonable.

So ... yeah. At least I feel like I was clear in what I want and, like Paul said, the door can close now or not.

LOL - this SO FAR AWAY from the intended aim of this thread. Where's the kinky fuckery? Where's the trying to work out how to maintain more than one relationship at once? I'm disappointed in myself.

No need to be disappointed in yourself. Things change. I never thought I'd have more than one play partner but here I am. I thought for the longest that I was monogamous because that is what is the norm in society around me. I don't know that I really have multiple relationships as much as I have multiple friendships with occasional fun sexy times. A couple of mine may lean more towards a relationship and some lean more towards a friendship. I never would have imagined that would be how a part of my life would be. In the future I'm sure there may be not as much or maybe different stuff.

I completely understand not wanting to feel like a hookup because of convenience. I've had a couple of instances that felt like that and it does not feel good for me. I've got to have a bit of friendship for it to work personally.

 

[KimGordon67]

No need to be disappointed in yourself. Things change. I never thought I'd have more than one play partner but here I am. I thought for the longest that I was monogamous because that is what is the norm in society around me. I don't know that I really have multiple relationships as much as I have multiple friendships with occasional fun sexy times. A couple of mine may lean more towards a relationship and some lean more towards a friendship. I never would have imagined that would be how a part of my life would be. In the future I'm sure there may be not as much or maybe different stuff.

I completely understand not wanting to feel like a hookup because of convenience. I've had a couple of instances that felt like that and it does not feel good for me. I've got to have a bit of friendship for it to work personally.

Having slept on things, I actually think his response was a bit dickish, and just an attempt to make me sound ... I don't know. Flakey? So now I'm just mildly irritated. Which is, weirdly, much more productive than however I was feeling before. Fuck him - if he doesn't get what I was saying, or can't be arsed just being nice about it, he shouldn't have responded at all. And him being a dick is actually just making this bigger than it really needs to be.

Grrrrr.

 

[bob53]

Having slept on things, I actually think his response was a bit dickish, and just an attempt to make me sound ... I don't know. Flakey? So now I'm just mildly irritated. Which is, weirdly, much more productive than however I was feeling before. Fuck him - if he doesn't get what I was saying, or can't be arsed just being nice about it, he shouldn't have responded at all. And him being a dick is actually just making this bigger than it really needs to be.

Grrrrr.

Be careful not to over think / analyze things. In an old LDR that I ended several years ago due to a drinking problem she had and managed to keep hidden from me. A few months later we we both in the same city on business. I initially hesitated meeting up with her as she was still a bit hostile I ended the relationship but decided to just go in with a blank slate.

No expectations, etc. We had been good friends before the so why not?
After the initial few minutes and letting the lightly barbed comments of hers slide we ended up having a great weekend. To the point that we had an inside joke about her sort of needing a donut pillow to sit on for her flight home. For the next 6+ years we were a FWB situation. We even took various vacations together in each others parts of the country.

When we made longer range plans it was always with the understanding that if either of us got into a committed relationship we would still do the vacation just without the benefits part.

To make a long story short - be in a blank slate and totally in the moment and it is amazing what can be created. I will admit I was also totally prepared so continue home that weekend but instead had a great time.

 

[KimGordon67]

Be careful not to over think / analyze things. In an old LDR that I ended several years ago due to a drinking problem she had and managed to keep hidden from me. A few months later we we both in the same city on business. I initially hesitated meeting up with her as she was still a bit hostile I ended the relationship but decided to just go in with a blank slate.

No expectations, etc. We had been good friends before the so why not?
After the initial few minutes and letting the lightly barbed comments of hers slide we ended up having a great weekend. To the point that we had an inside joke about her sort of needing a donut pillow to sit on for her flight home. For the next 6+ years we were a FWB situation. We even took various vacations together in each others parts of the country.

When we made longer range plans it was always with the understanding that if either of us got into a committed relationship we would still do the vacation just without the benefits part.

To make a long story short - be in a blank slate and totally in the moment and it is amazing what can be created. I will admit I was also totally prepared so continue home that weekend but instead had a great time.

I take your point, and you are right - I do have a tendency to overthink things. I guess I'm just frustrated because I have literally no idea wtf is going on in his head. Like, NO idea - usually I can get the general gist of what someone is thinking/feeling in these situations, but this time I'm just totally in the dark.

I guess I'll just try to not think about it until I see him next, which isn't going to be until the end of next week at the earliest. I feel a bit more settled than I did before, like I've now made my feelings pretty clear, and it's really up to him to do what he wants about that. I did realise through all this that I have a terrible tendency to just say 'this is finished!' when it gets too hard for me, and I probably need to just back off for a couple of days and think about whether that's what I really want.

It's also a bit frustrating, because we're so close in terms of wanting the same thing, and this could be so easily resolved ... although I guess I haven't really helped the whole 'resolution' process by just walking away because it was too hard. So maybe I should cut him a bit of slack, and give him some time to think about things.

Sigh.

The stupid thing about this is that if the sex wasn't so good, I really wouldn't be bothering at all.

 

[bob53]

I take your point, and you are right - I do have a tendency to overthink things. I guess I'm just frustrated because I have literally no idea wtf is going on in his head. Like, NO idea - usually I can get the general gist of what someone is thinking/feeling in these situations, but this time I'm just totally in the dark.

I guess I'll just try to not think about it until I see him next, which isn't going to be until the end of next week at the earliest. I feel a bit more settled than I did before, like I've now made my feelings pretty clear, and it's really up to him to do what he wants about that. I did realise through all this that I have a terrible tendency to just say 'this is finished!' when it gets too hard for me, and I probably need to just back off for a couple of days and think about whether that's what I really want.

It's also a bit frustrating, because we're so close in terms of wanting the same thing, and this could be so easily resolved ... although I guess I haven't really helped the whole 'resolution' process by just walking away because it was too hard. So maybe I should cut him a bit of slack, and give him some time to think about things.

Sigh.

The stupid thing about this is that if the sex wasn't so good, I really wouldn't be bothering at all.

Don't feel bad. Just figure out and make clear what your boundaries are and stay within them. I readily admit I was concerned when I met her at her hotel that it could easily be a dicey evening.

I have learned that it is really amazing what can be created if you come from a place of nothing. Not even neutral but nothing - blank slate no expectations.

It really is difficult but the best times I have had have been from there. Just lay out the boundaries and go for it.

Another crazy one was I was out with a client in SE Asia and a young lady friend of theirs was along. We all went to dinner and she and I hit it off. The real crazy part was neither of us spoke a word of the others verbal language. We each got some short notes of written translation just in case they were needed. Totally in the moment and totally focused on each others non verbal language. It was a great night I will always remember.

 

[KimGordon67]

Don't feel bad. Just figure out and make clear what your boundaries are and stay within them. I readily admit I was concerned when I met her at her hotel that it could easily be a dicey evening.

I have learned that it is really amazing what can be created if you come from a place of nothing. Not even neutral but nothing - blank slate no expectations.

It really is difficult but the best times I have had have been from there. Just lay out the boundaries and go for it.

Another crazy one was I was out with a client in SE Asia and a young lady friend of theirs was along. We all went to dinner and she and I hit it off. The real crazy part was neither of us spoke a word of the others verbal language. We each got some short notes of written translation just in case they were needed. Totally in the moment and totally focused on each others non verbal language. It was a great night I will always remember.

It probably would have helped if I'd known what my boundaries were going into this thing.
But at least I actually understand them better myself now. So that's a good thing.

 

[AnnieLit]

It probably would have helped if I'd known what my boundaries were going into this thing.
But at least I actually understand them better myself now. So that's a good thing.

Unfortunately, they tend to change. What was a hard no with one partner becomes a maybe with another and a why not with the next one. And the other way too: if you did not need something from person A because he was over compensating it with something, all of a sudden becomes a necessity with person B.

 

[ultramarineblue]

Unfortunately, they tend to change. What was a hard no with one partner becomes a maybe with another and a why not with the next one. And the other way too: if you did not need something from person A because he was over compensating it with something, all of a sudden becomes a necessity with person B.

The changing of boundaries with different people and even with the same person can be frustrating but also good. I actively try to figure this stuff out and I struggle knowing sometimes.

 

[KimGordon67]

Unfortunately, they tend to change. What was a hard no with one partner becomes a maybe with another and a why not with the next one. And the other way too: if you did not need something from person A because he was over compensating it with something, all of a sudden becomes a necessity with person B.

Yes - this. Or you just might feel differently about Person A and Person B.

 

[cookiecat]

Yeah, yeah, I like the kinky fuckery and pondering about poly. But what brings me back to your thread, Kim, is the honest way in which you put yourself out there. For me, you bring up a lot of issues rattling around in my head.

So even though you stray from the original intent of the thread, the way you write about things makes me feel like we're friends, hanging out, having a drink, venting about whatever.

 

[KimGordon67]

Yeah, yeah, I like the kinky fuckery and pondering about poly. But what brings me back to your thread, Kim, is the honest way in which you put yourself out there. For me, you bring up a lot of issues rattling around in my head.

So even though you stray from the original intent of the thread, the way you write about things makes me feel like we're friends, hanging out, having a drink, venting about whatever.

I feel a bit more settled. I've been clear and reasonable. He either wants to keep seeing me on that basis or he doesn't.

 

[ultramarineblue]

I feel a bit more settled. I've been clear and reasonable. He either wants to keep seeing me on that basis or he doesn't.

I hope everything turns out well. I'm glad you feel more settled though.

 

[Paul_Chance]

I think part of being successful at non-monogamous or poly relationships is learning to let go of expectations. That's not to say you shouldn't have expectations, but they should all pass through a filter of "do it matter and if so, how much does it matter". Then, you can drill down into the three or four things that matter most and bring you the most happiness.

If I were to try and explain my filters they look like this:

1. Do they conduct their life in a way that is consistent and admirable?
2. Are they intelligent and capable of good conversations/communication?
3. Are we sexually interesting and compatible?
4. Are they mature?

Beyond that, the rest are just flexible details - sometimes I flex, sometimes they flex.

 

[KimGordon67]

I feel a bit more settled. I've been clear and reasonable. He either wants to keep seeing me on that basis or he doesn't.

Two weeks of deafening silence. I guess the answer was 'he doesn't'. Oh well.

I have a Skype 'coffee date' with someone from ... lol, now I can't actually remember what app I 'met' him on. He's back at the other end of the spectrum - all the self reflectiveness and clarity. I'm feeling pretty wary myself ... I, on the other hand, seem to have gotten suspicious of anyone who's actually a bit nice to me. This level of cynicism is probably not the best frame of mind for dating. My therapist says that's because I need to be nice to myself (or words to that effect). This seems to be a particularly difficult process.

 

[Bramblethorn]

This level of cynicism is probably not the best frame of mind for dating. My therapist says that's because I need to be nice to myself (or words to that effect). This seems to be a particularly difficult process.

Sometimes I find the "what would I say to somebody else in this exact same situation?" framing helpful there.

 

[KimGordon67]

Sometimes I find the "what would I say to somebody else in this exact same situation?" framing helpful there.

I probably say 'I'll open a bottle of wine.'

 

[KimGordon67]

I probably say 'I'll open a bottle of wine.'

Actually, I gave myself a good weekend of what I guess we call 'self care'. Involving chainsawing up some wood for the fire (this is important because it's getting cold), drinking a bit of wine, some fairly innocent flirting with someone I used to know years ago who's literally on the other side of the world, cleaning the kitchen thoroughly (including the oven ), watching three movies, doing some impulse online shopping, and really thinking about some work I'm doing. None of which sounds particularly 'self caring' (except maybe the movies), but I'm always happier when I'm in a clean house, and having plenty of firewood on hand also makes me happy. And I had music on all weekend, which I haven't done for ages. All this kind of reminded me why I like living alone - I had enough contact with people (on Facebook and phone calls) to feel like I'd interacted with other humans, but it was nice to just enjoy being in my own space as well.

One thing I'm quite pleased about is that in spite of the 2+ week silence from the local guy, I haven't been messaging him at all. Were I in this situation a couple of years ago, or even a year ago, he would have gotten half a dozen messages apologising, wanting to know what was going on, trying to explain myself (again, in three different ways), some sent at 2am ... but now I'm just feeling that I explained myself clearly, and I don't need to do that again - what he does with that is up to him.

 

[Fermina_Daza]

One thing I've learned about being in an open/poly relationship is we rely heavily on communication. So when someone fails to communicate, I think we take it a little harder. Or at least I do.

We are told not to play games and to be open books, but sometimes I wonder if they don't really want to play games. It's exhausting. It's also why I've become good at pushing people away too easily and sometimes too quickly.

I am glad you got some self-care this weekend. And kudos to you for holding it together so well with the two weeks of silence.

 

[KimGordon67]

One thing I've learned about being in an open/poly relationship is we rely heavily on communication. So when someone fails to communicate, I think we take it a little harder. Or at least I do.

We are told not to play games and to be open books, but sometimes I wonder if they don't really want to play games. It's exhausting. It's also why I've become good at pushing people away too easily and sometimes too quickly.

I am glad you got some self-care this weekend. And kudos to you for holding it together so well with the two weeks of silence.

Yeah, lack of communication doesn't really work for me either. Unfortunately, in this instance it was sort of the part of the package - he is just totally the type of guy you would expect to not enjoy talking about 'feelings'. And a lot of that is also why I like him - everything is quite straightforward and simple. I just need *that* but with maybe 20% more communication. The other guys who are ALL about the talking are just exhausting sometimes. Lovely, and it's great that they're so in touch with their feelings etc, but sometimes it's just all a bit much.

With this one, I can't work out if it's a game on his part, or if he really is just this black and white. But I have learnt that trying 'play it cool' doesn't work for me. If I'd had an honest - and short - conversation with him ages ago, we'd probably be fine.
Oh well.

 

[Paul_Chance]

Any kind of self-care that involves chainsaws has got to be good in my book! Chainsaws are good therapeutic tools. But, uh, consider carefully how you phrase that when you tell your therapist.

I'd agree that in any non-monogamous/poly flavored relationship communication is important. But, I'd also agree that the line to over communication is flexible and fragile and can be crossed (or run over with a truck). Sometimes silence is the best remedy. Sometimes that remedy is short and honest communication. Sometimes the remedy is long days in long emotionally intense communication.

Obviously, I am not one of those people who sees things black and white - my fault is probably the opposite. There are probably things that I should see black and white that I won't/don't.

 

[KimGordon67]

Any kind of self-care that involves chainsaws has got to be good in my book! Chainsaws are good therapeutic tools. But, uh, consider carefully how you phrase that when you tell your therapist.

I'd agree that in any non-monogamous/poly flavored relationship communication is important. But, I'd also agree that the line to over communication is flexible and fragile and can be crossed (or run over with a truck). Sometimes silence is the best remedy. Sometimes that remedy is short and honest communication. Sometimes the remedy is long days in long emotionally intense communication.

Obviously, I am not one of those people who sees things black and white - my fault is probably the opposite. There are probably things that I should see black and white that I won't/don't.

The chainsaw is definitely one of my favourite toys. There's something very gratifying about creating a nice pile of firewood.

I'm not sure that this problem has anything to do with the non-monogamy. It's more me working out what I 'need' (a word I really dislike using) for a more 'casual' thing to work, and the fact that I'm still working this out. Unfortunately, this particular thing with the local guy is the ground in which a chunk of that working out has happened, and I guess he just got a bit sick of it (especially given that I never really explained any of this, because I didn't really know what was going on myself). That, and the fact that I really enjoyed the couple of months we had when everything was good. It's been a while since I really enjoyed someone else like that. Hence the missing him.

And no, I'm not very good at black and white either. Everything is a continuum. Not everyone likes that.