Kim's poly/kink thread reinvented ...

[KimGordon67]

Actually, I gave myself a good weekend of what I guess we call 'self care'. Involving chainsawing up some wood for the fire (this is important because it's getting cold), drinking a bit of wine, some fairly innocent flirting with someone I used to know years ago who's literally on the other side of the world, cleaning the kitchen thoroughly (including the oven ), watching three movies, doing some impulse online shopping, and really thinking about some work I'm doing. None of which sounds particularly 'self caring' (except maybe the movies), but I'm always happier when I'm in a clean house, and having plenty of firewood on hand also makes me happy. And I had music on all weekend, which I haven't done for ages. All this kind of reminded me why I like living alone - I had enough contact with people (on Facebook and phone calls) to feel like I'd interacted with other humans, but it was nice to just enjoy being in my own space as well.

One thing I'm quite pleased about is that in spite of the 2+ week silence from the local guy, I haven't been messaging him at all. Were I in this situation a couple of years ago, or even a year ago, he would have gotten half a dozen messages apologising, wanting to know what was going on, trying to explain myself (again, in three different ways), some sent at 2am ... but now I'm just feeling that I explained myself clearly, and I don't need to do that again - what he does with that is up to him.

Well, that lasted another week, and then I just got sick of not really be sure wtf was happening and asked him if I was going to be hearing from him or not. There was little bit of 'yeah, we should catch up' to-ing and fro-ing, and then the next morning (which was yesterday) I just thought 'fuck it' and sent him a 'look, I like you a lot and I miss you being around but things weren't really going so well for me and it'd be good to have actual talk and see if we can sort out something that'll work for both of us' message. Fully expecting him to just say he couldn't be arsed. (I suspect I have a bit of a tendency to push things a bit more than I should to get a reaction - any reaction. God knows why. Maybe that's a good thing to take to the next therapy session. )
Anyway, he said yeah, having a chat and some beer and fucking sounded good, but next week because he was mad busy this week. So I took that as a positive and got on with my day ...
... only to get another message a couple of hours later saying he still wanted to talk next week, but if I was up for drinking&fucking that evening he could drop round. So we did that, and it was a heap of fun. We did end up talking about stuff a bit - only because he brought it up, but there's a bit more to sort out. But the hanging out and the sex was just as easy and just as much fun as it always is.

The whole situation is a bit confusing, but hopefully we can put some parameters around it next week. I feel like something 'casual' shouldn't be this difficult, but I also really enjoy him, and that's not an easy thing to find.

 

[Bramblethorn]

One thing I've learned about being in an open/poly relationship is we rely heavily on communication. So when someone fails to communicate, I think we take it a little harder. Or at least I do.

We are told not to play games and to be open books, but sometimes I wonder if they don't really want to play games. It's exhausting.

Oh, I hear that. The number of times I've been told "yes, I said I wanted you to do X, but you should have figured out that I really wanted Y instead..."

 

[ultramarineblue]

Well, that lasted another week, and then I just got sick of not really be sure wtf was happening and asked him if I was going to be hearing from him or not. There was little bit of 'yeah, we should catch up' to-ing and fro-ing, and then the next morning (which was yesterday) I just thought 'fuck it' and sent him a 'look, I like you a lot and I miss you being around but things weren't really going so well for me and it'd be good to have actual talk and see if we can sort out something that'll work for both of us' message. Fully expecting him to just say he couldn't be arsed. (I suspect I have a bit of a tendency to push things a bit more than I should to get a reaction - any reaction. God knows why. Maybe that's a good thing to take to the next therapy session. )
Anyway, he said yeah, having a chat and some beer and fucking sounded good, but next week because he was mad busy this week. So I took that as a positive and got on with my day ...
... only to get another message a couple of hours later saying he still wanted to talk next week, but if I was up for drinking&fucking that evening he could drop round. So we did that, and it was a heap of fun. We did end up talking about stuff a bit - only because he brought it up, but there's a bit more to sort out. But the hanging out and the sex was just as easy and just as much fun as it always is.

The whole situation is a bit confusing, but hopefully we can put some parameters around it next week. I feel like something 'casual' shouldn't be this difficult, but I also really enjoy him, and that's not an easy thing to find.

I hope everything works out well!

 

[KimGordon67]

I hope everything works out well!

Thanks. I'm feeling optimistic. I've done a bit of thinking about my reactions, and think that maybe I've been trying to make this 'thing' do a bit too much in my life ... since Covid hit, for various reasons, I've been at home and on my own a lot more than usual. (I know this isn't actually unusual for most people in the world, but here we've been back to normal for a pretty long time.) While I'm pretty fond of my own company, I do obviously need a bit more human contact than I've been getting of late, and I suspect I was trying to make this 'thing' make up for that.
And I just need to try and find a way to let go of things a bit.
I think this week I might just ask him what it is he wants out of this, and see where that takes us.

Also trying to do a bit of work that's come out of the therapy. My therapist got me to see that I need to actually like myself a bit more, instead of trying to get other people to like me. I'm not sure that I'm quite getting there, but it's useful to remember that it's not other people's job to make me feel better about myself. What I have managed to do is not beat myself up too much about being a bit off-centre. Him being patient helps. And also, he has some pretty weird inexplicable quirks too that I just go with, because we're all a bit screwed up. Like, WTAF is up with the whole not-staying-over thing? But I just don't say anything about it - he knows he can stay if he wants to, but if he doesn't want to, me making a big deal of isn't going to improve things.

 

[KimGordon67]

I'm very much looking forward to getting back to exploring the potential kinky fuckery with this guy. Last week was a little odd, in that 'first sex since things went a bit pear-shaped' way. Not *super* odd, but maybe a little more restrained than usual. (Not THAT sort of restrained ... the other sort.) I'd also drunk a bit more than I should have - I'm not sure if that's because I was a bit nervous, or because I've been dieting, which for me mostly consists of cutting right back on the wine, so I just got a little more tiddly from the same amount of drinking. This always means I'm a little less focused than I like to be. There's some perfect balance where I've drunk enough to let go a little, but not so much that I lose focus.
But I *did* discover that he really likes having a finger slid into his arse while I've got his cock in my mouth ... I kind of had some good indication this would be on his 'hell yes' list, but it's sort of a first for me, so it's take me a while to work up to. I'd forgotten how hot it is to see someone just melt like he did ... like they just forget about everything other than how good whatever-is-happening feels. SO hot. I'm intrigued to see where we can go with this ... and with some other things.

 

[ultramarineblue]

Thanks. I'm feeling optimistic. I've done a bit of thinking about my reactions, and think that maybe I've been trying to make this 'thing' do a bit too much in my life ... since Covid hit, for various reasons, I've been at home and on my own a lot more than usual. (I know this isn't actually unusual for most people in the world, but here we've been back to normal for a pretty long time.) While I'm pretty fond of my own company, I do obviously need a bit more human contact than I've been getting of late, and I suspect I was trying to make this 'thing' make up for that.
And I just need to try and find a way to let go of things a bit.
I think this week I might just ask him what it is he wants out of this, and see where that takes us.

Also trying to do a bit of work that's come out of the therapy. My therapist got me to see that I need to actually like myself a bit more, instead of trying to get other people to like me. I'm not sure that I'm quite getting there, but it's useful to remember that it's not other people's job to make me feel better about myself. What I have managed to do is not beat myself up too much about being a bit off-centre. Him being patient helps. And also, he has some pretty weird inexplicable quirks too that I just go with, because we're all a bit screwed up. Like, WTAF is up with the whole not-staying-over thing? But I just don't say anything about it - he knows he can stay if he wants to, but if he doesn't want to, me making a big deal of isn't going to improve things.

That sounds promising. I completely understand what you mean about liking yourself though. It is something I really struggle with as well. I also really understand what you mean about watching someone melt like you described with your other post. It is a wonderful thing to witness and be a part of that or the reason for it.

 

[KimGordon67]

That sounds promising. I completely understand what you mean about liking yourself though. It is something I really struggle with as well. I also really understand what you mean about watching someone melt like you described with your other post. It is a wonderful thing to witness and be a part of that or the reason for it.

It's been a while since I've had that happen. It's nice having someone be that responsive ... I'm very much looking forward to seeing him tomorrow.

 

[ultramarineblue]

It's been a while since I've had that happen. It's nice having someone be that responsive ... I'm very much looking forward to seeing him tomorrow.

I hope everything goes well! I really like seeing people become that responsive. I don't have it happen nearly as often as I would like but if it happened that often it probably wouldn't be as special.

 

[LizVegas79]

Wishing you the best tomorrow Kim! Sounds to me like you're on the right track taking a chance but being true to yourself first. Speaking as someone with a ton of experience in this area, don't let other people, or even just one individual person, define your happiness for you. Being happy with who you are first makes it a whole lot easier to get out of bed every morning and step into your own life.

 

[KimGordon67]

Wishing you the best tomorrow Kim! Sounds to me like you're on the right track taking a chance but being true to yourself first. Speaking as someone with a ton of experience in this area, don't let other people, or even just one individual person, define your happiness for you. Being happy with who you are first makes it a whole lot easier to get out of bed every morning and step into your own life.

Tomorrow is now yesterday ... it was an odd evening. He was really tired (for utterly understandable reasons) and not in the greatest mood. I decided to just not bother bringing up 'talking'. The sex was ... well, great, but not as great as usual, although he was weirdly cuddly. Which is lovely - I'm not complaining. Just unusual.

And yes, I'm working a lot on being happy with who I am. I've realised I'm just perpetually surprised that anyone could be interested in me, and consequently assume they've somehow misunderstood what I'm really like, and further consequently expect that they'll work it out at some point and stop being interested in me. (LOL - that's a massive revelation for a dodgy website.) Obviously expecting that to happen all the time is not the best starting point for anything, and it's always way worse if I really like the person involved (as I obviously do in this instance). I really need to sort this shit out - it's extremely counter-productive.

 

[KimGordon67]

So I have a question for anyone's who's following this ... that has a bit of background. I've been thinking a bit about things, about the 'something extra', and I think that what that 'something extra' gives me is some sort of sense of certainty. I'm not a person who responds well to uncertainty in 'relationships' (whatever shape they are), or indeed in much of the rest of my life, unless I really don't care that much about what happens. This is difficult when it comes to the casual things, because obviously they're ... well, casual.
I've worked out that it's not going to go back to how it was in the first couple of months, for whatever reason - the most logical explanation is that he's one of those people who gets caught up in the flush of something new, but doesn't tend to sustain that. Which is understandable. A bit sucky for me, but understandable. But he obviously still wants something, with me, because he's still 'here'.

So we had this fairly regular thing develop where we see each on Thursdays - it's just how it's worked out for various reasons. But we still have to arrange that every week, and I find that process a little ... I don't know. Just not ideal. So I'm thinking of suggesting that we just make Thursdays a definite thing, but a thing that can be cancelled in any given week if something else comes up. So 'opt out' rather than 'opt in'.
I feel like having that level of certainty *might* make things work better for me. So my question is, is that reasonable?

 

[Bramblethorn]

So we had this fairly regular thing develop where we see each on Thursdays - it's just how it's worked out for various reasons. But we still have to arrange that every week, and I find that process a little ... I don't know. Just not ideal. So I'm thinking of suggesting that we just make Thursdays a definite thing, but a thing that can be cancelled in any given week if something else comes up. So 'opt out' rather than 'opt in'.
I feel like having that level of certainty *might* make things work better for me. So my question is, is that reasonable?

I can relate to that. Back when I was last in a LDR with a partner who had a lot of other commitments, it was important to me to have some planned 'us' time. I didn't mind so much whether it was once a week or once a month, as long as it was marked out for us - obviously sometimes things do come up, but it was important to me to feel like there was something set aside for us.

(And erosion of that commitment was part of what broke us up, but that's another story.)

 

[KimGordon67]

I can relate to that. Back when I was last in a LDR with a partner who had a lot of other commitments, it was important to me to have some planned 'us' time. I didn't mind so much whether it was once a week or once a month, as long as it was marked out for us - obviously sometimes things do come up, but it was important to me to feel like there was something set aside for us.

(And erosion of that commitment was part of what broke us up, but that's another story.)

Yes. That. I know there's a risk that it might feel like a bit too much of a 'commitment' (which seems counter the 'casual' thing that it is), but it is just knowing that there's something that's, as you say, marked out. I truly do not care what he does the rest of the time, and I'm absolutely fine with only seeing him once a week for a few hours, and his weird little quirks are all good. I just feel like I need some tiny little solid thing so I can ground myself a little, and stop feeling so annoyingly uncertain about things.

Maybe I'm just not cut out for these casual things. Argh.

 

[Dreamliner]

Jeez, I will bring my shortbboard windsurfer and kite. Plus red wine, and good company.

 

[Islander55]

Yes. That. I know there's a risk that it might feel like a bit too much of a 'commitment' (which seems counter the 'casual' thing that it is), but it is just knowing that there's something that's, as you say, marked out. I truly do not care what he does the rest of the time, and I'm absolutely fine with only seeing him once a week for a few hours, and his weird little quirks are all good. I just feel like I need some tiny little solid thing so I can ground myself a little, and stop feeling so annoyingly uncertain about things.

Maybe I'm just not cut out for these casual things. Argh.

In your relationship with this guy, there is no reason the two of you should not mark a set time to be together. You are saying it can be cancelled so that is not big imposition on him if something comes up. While you want it to stay casual, there still is no reason that you should not receive a little bit of consideration. If he is not willing to give that much, I can't see any reason to maintain even a casual relationship. It is one thing to be demanding and bitchy but what you are asking for is pretty minimal.

 

[KimGordon67]

Jeez, I will bring my shortbboard windsurfer and kite. Plus red wine, and good company.

LOL. I'm struggling to discern an answer to my actual question in there.

 

[KimGordon67]

In your relationship with this guy, there is no reason the two of you should not mark a set time to be together. You are saying it can be cancelled so that is not big imposition on him if something comes up. While you want it to stay casual, there still is no reason that you should not receive a little bit of consideration. If he is not willing to give that much, I can't see any reason to maintain even a casual relationship. It is one thing to be demanding and bitchy but what you are asking for is pretty minimal.

Thanks. I really don't want to be demanding, and I don't feel even slightly bitchy. I dunno. I woke up this morning feeling a bit clearer. I don't think this thing is ever really going to be quite what I want ... I always feel like I'm wanting a bit *more*, and that's leaving me on slightly unsteady footing. I guess a lot of 'relationships' are a bit unbalanced in terms of how into each other you are, and unfortunately here I've ended up on the 'more' side of the equation ... not for the first couple of months, but something shifted and here I am. But he's not going to change, so I just need to decide if I'm able to scale back what I want, or give up. The time we're actually together is always great, and I don't want to lose that - I just need to be OK with that being all there is. So yeah ... I'll suggest make the Thursday thing a proper fixture, and see how that goes. If it's still not working out for me after that, I'll call it a day.
I'm a little concerned that it might have a negative effect on the sex ... the great sex does seem to depend a little bit on the between-visit exchange of a bit of porn, a bit of 'I'd like to do XYZ', and I don't know how it'll work if we're not doing that any more (which we're not - that's one of the things that doesn't seem to be changing). But we'll see ... maybe it'll just revert to being great vanilla, which is ok.

Anyway, the other thing I realised this morning is that I'm putting way too much energy into this, trying to figure things out, trying to work out 'solutions', trying to make it work for me. And I think it's been enough energy now, especially when I'm not getting so much back. That's enough. I'll give it a shot to make the actually-casual 'see you Thursday and I'll just get on with my own life the rest of the time' work - like, an actual shot, not a half-hearted attempt. But other than that, I need to focus on other stuff a bit more. And see what else the universe has for me out there. As Paul would say, if this isn't providing me with stuff I want, I may need to see if something else will do that.

 

[AnnieLit]

.
I'm a little concerned that it might have a negative effect on the sex ... the great sex does seem to depend a little bit on the between-visit exchange of a bit of porn, a bit of 'I'd like to do XYZ', and I don't know how it'll work if we're not doing that any more (which we're not - that's one of the things that doesn't seem to be changing). But we'll see ... maybe it'll just revert to being great vanilla, which is ok.

Fixed schedule and no in between chatter does not always mean vanilla sex. It might make for a slower progress, but even that is not given. One Thursday you leave a rope out, next Thursday you add a paddle to it. You talk about it for two min and either he likes the idea or he does not. There is really not much need to talk about every little detail et nauseam. Or more like: some people have the need to talk about everything, others don't. But even without talking it is very possible to do a lot of things.

 

[KimGordon67]

Fixed schedule and no in between chatter does not always mean vanilla sex. It might make for a slower progress, but even that is not given. One Thursday you leave a rope out, next Thursday you add a paddle to it. You talk about it for two min and either he likes the idea or he does not. There is really not much need to talk about every little detail et nauseam. Or more like: some people have the need to talk about everything, others don't. But even without talking it is very possible to do a lot of things.

I think he finds a more distanced medium (like messaging) easier for bringing up 'stuff' that he might like ... but if it turns out that removing that option makes it harder for him to suggest things, then I guess he'll need to do something about it. The messaging, since it stopped being super fun sexy flirty banter, is doing my head in a bit, and I sort of want to dispense with it being a necessity. The rarity of him instigating any exchange suggests he's not too fussed with it either, so maybe that'll make things easier for both of us ... unless he discovers he's lost his channel for communicating random sexual wants. But that's his problem.

I dunno ... I'll just propose it and see what he says. I'm sort of at the point where I'm just a bit sick of thinking about the whole situation all the time, and I'm just going to do what makes sense to me and not worry about the outcome overly much.

 

[JDredd711]

First, let me start off with tsk tsk. Just kidding. What a brilliant thread!!!

I haven't read all of it, but even after the first page, I'm blown away. I've already discovered some "truths" about myself that were very illuminating. I'm still working through them, but I'll be happy to share more once I sort them out enough to make a coherent post.

I guess the reason for this post is to thank you for being so honest with what you've gone through. It certainly has given me lots to think about. I will continue to follow this thread, to learn more about myself, as well as in hopes of reading about your joyful resolution and outcome.

And I'm 59, there's always someone at every age that will find you attractive, even fully nude. Speaking from experience.

 

[IrisAlthea]

Yes. That. I know there's a risk that it might feel like a bit too much of a 'commitment' (which seems counter the 'casual' thing that it is), but it is just knowing that there's something that's, as you say, marked out. I truly do not care what he does the rest of the time, and I'm absolutely fine with only seeing him once a week for a few hours, and his weird little quirks are all good. I just feel like I need some tiny little solid thing so I can ground myself a little, and stop feeling so annoyingly uncertain about things.

Maybe I'm just not cut out for these casual things. Argh.

I guess it depends on what you want to put in the word casual and how important it is for you to be able to label it casual.

For me casual worked well while getting over the first really bad case of love hurts. Over time though it turned out that expectations started to grow. Like the guy I used to see at the film pub at times and sometimes go home with, who was suddenly there every time I went there and look like a sad puppy if I only wanted to see the movie.
I also learned that for me to be interested over time I need to be interested in the person on some level and then it either turns into friends with benefits or more complications than it was worth.
In retrospect, the only relationship that stayed in the casual box and ended painlessly was with the guy who only turned up in my town once in a while wanting to hang out but perfectly ok with a no and where I felt just as ok saying no, never feeling like it would change what would happen bext time he turned up.

 

[wicked woman]

So I have a question for anyone's who's following this ... that has a bit of background. I've been thinking a bit about things, about the 'something extra', and I think that what that 'something extra' gives me is some sort of sense of certainty. I'm not a person who responds well to uncertainty in 'relationships' (whatever shape they are), or indeed in much of the rest of my life, unless I really don't care that much about what happens. This is difficult when it comes to the casual things, because obviously they're ... well, casual.
I've worked out that it's not going to go back to how it was in the first couple of months, for whatever reason - the most logical explanation is that he's one of those people who gets caught up in the flush of something new, but doesn't tend to sustain that. Which is understandable. A bit sucky for me, but understandable. But he obviously still wants something, with me, because he's still 'here'.

So we had this fairly regular thing develop where we see each on Thursdays - it's just how it's worked out for various reasons. But we still have to arrange that every week, and I find that process a little ... I don't know. Just not ideal. So I'm thinking of suggesting that we just make Thursdays a definite thing, but a thing that can be cancelled in any given week if something else comes up. So 'opt out' rather than 'opt in'.
I feel like having that level of certainty *might* make things work better for me. So my question is, is that reasonable?

I don't see a problem with asking. If it were me, instead of mentioning the 'why' that you've discussed here, I might try something like Thursday's seem to work for us so wondering about it on a go forward basis. Kind of scheduling it in but either of us can cancel if something else comes up. Just less hassle, since Thursdays work for us. Also, would help me/make it easier for me to arrange times for other things I would like to do. Something like that. Not sure if 'scheduling' might scare him off, just couldn't come up with another word. So still keep it casual...Thursday but cancellable...but let's you plan the rest of your time...but leave time because you want to see him. Also let's you look for someone else who is going to meet more of your needs. Maybe it's time. Just a thought.

 

[KimGordon67]

First, let me start off with tsk tsk. Just kidding. What a brilliant thread!!!

I haven't read all of it, but even after the first page, I'm blown away. I've already discovered some "truths" about myself that were very illuminating. I'm still working through them, but I'll be happy to share more once I sort them out enough to make a coherent post.

I guess the reason for this post is to thank you for being so honest with what you've gone through. It certainly has given me lots to think about. I will continue to follow this thread, to learn more about myself, as well as in hopes of reading about your joyful resolution and outcome.

And I'm 59, there's always someone at every age that will find you attractive, even fully nude. Speaking from experience.

Thanks. (I am a little concerned that your AV is not the correct Dredd though.)

 

[KimGordon67]

I guess it depends on what you want to put in the word casual and how important it is for you to be able to label it casual.

For me casual worked well while getting over the first really bad case of love hurts. Over time though it turned out that expectations started to grow. Like the guy I used to see at the film pub at times and sometimes go home with, who was suddenly there every time I went there and look like a sad puppy if I only wanted to see the movie.
I also learned that for me to be interested over time I need to be interested in the person on some level and then it either turns into friends with benefits or more complications than it was worth.
In retrospect, the only relationship that stayed in the casual box and ended painlessly was with the guy who only turned up in my town once in a while wanting to hang out but perfectly ok with a no and where I felt just as ok saying no, never feeling like it would change what would happen bext time he turned up.

Yes, it's interesting how malleable the term is. It worked pretty well with a guy I was seeing last year - we're a three hour drive apart, and used to see each other every four weeks or so (never really less than four weeks). Unfortunately I just went off him after a while, but the logistics worked well, and I'm sort of a fan of having a bit of distance. I think proximity has made things trickier with this guys, plus also his total freaking love-bombing for the first couple of months.

I am in preliminary conversation with someone who's a 6-7 hour drive (or a one hour plane trip) away. We seem to get on well, and he lives in a city that I'm happy to visit, as I have a heap of other friends there. And there seems to be a reasonable level of communication - steady but not every day and not overwhelming.

 

[KimGordon67]

I don't see a problem with asking. If it were me, instead of mentioning the 'why' that you've discussed here, I might try something like Thursday's seem to work for us so wondering about it on a go forward basis. Kind of scheduling it in but either of us can cancel if something else comes up. Just less hassle, since Thursdays work for us. Also, would help me/make it easier for me to arrange times for other things I would like to do. Something like that. Not sure if 'scheduling' might scare him off, just couldn't come up with another word. So still keep it casual...Thursday but cancellable...but let's you plan the rest of your time...but leave time because you want to see him. Also let's you look for someone else who is going to meet more of your needs. Maybe it's time. Just a thought.

Oh ... I definitely wasn't going to go into detail as to the 'why'. Some of this stuff he already knows; other things he really doesn't need to know.

And yes, I'm letting the universe send things my way again. I'm back in the maelstrom that is Tinder.