Kim's poly/kink thread reinvented ...

[Paul_Chance]

Awesome way to start a relationship! Glad to hear the sex was sizzling. And yes, a really good blowjob is hard to find.

 

[KimGordon67]

Awesome way to start a relationship! Glad to hear the sex was sizzling. And yes, a really good blowjob is hard to find.

Is that true? I find it hard to believe ... it's so much fun, why wouldn't any give it their all? What does a 'not good' blowjob even look like?

Any contributions to this discussion welcome ... I spend a lot of time doing research to improve my blowjobs (OK, maybe not a LOT of time, but some), so I'm also always interested in any little tricks or preferences that people have. But also things that are not great, so one knows what to avoid.

 

[Paul_Chance]

Treatise on the Measuring the Quality of Oral Sex

Being a bit of a data geek, I did a quick survey of the literature. The literature is all over the place and is mostly focused on "have you done or have you had done" and classic survey type questionnairres. Just at the very high level, 80% (+/-) have ever had oral sex and about 40% (+/-) have had oral sex in the past year. I couldn't find anything related to quality, though there is some data around "enjoyment", which is highly subjective.

I think it's a fairly decent baseline to start and it correlates with "personal experience", where my initial thoughts on the question was 1 in 5 sexual partners deliver "good" oral sex on my personal Likert Scale. Very good falls closer to 1 in 8 to 1 in 10. (I think back on it and I've had partners in all three categories, with a normal distribution curve.)

1-Very Bad/No Oral Sex
2-Bad Oral Sex
3-Ordinary Oral Sex
4-Good Oral Sex
5-Great Oral Sex

The first couple of elements have nothing to do with technique.

1. Enthusiam Factor
2. Responsiveness Factor
3. Range of Technique Factor
4. Pleasure Factor

And then, finally, the fifth factor:

5. Technique

So lets consider one of the difficult questions, which is the question of quality and as such is highly subjective. If you take my five factor analysis and assign a simple value of -2,-1,0,+1 or +2 to each factor in evaluating the qualilty of oral sex my hypotheses is that the quality of oral sex can be evaluating by simply assigning a subjective value to each factor. Then you can simply total the scores and return a positive or negative value. Technique, as only one of the factors, can compensate for the a limited amount of low scores in the other factors, but good oral sex has at least three positive factors and great oral sex has positive values in all factors.

Definitions:

1. Enthusiam Factor: This is an attempt to answer three fundamental questions that are key to the subsequent factors. Enthusiam is how much does the giver WANT to give oral sex. Is it a must have for every sexual encounter? Most sexual encounters? Some sexual encounters? Only when requested? Do they convey that enthusiam through their actions? Requesting oral sex frequently? Initiating oral sex frequently? This is the "gateway" factor that then allows a proper scoring of the remaining four factors.

2. Responsiveness Factor: This guages the degree to which the giver of oral sex is paying attention to the impact of oral sex on their partner and being responsive to both explicit cues (communication) and implicit cues (non-verbal communication and physical reactions). A highly responsive partner is valued.

3. Range of Technique: The guages the variety of techniques the partner has at their disposal and their willingness to learn new techniques, again, either through explicit or implicit cues. The wider the giver of oral sex's range of technique, the better.

4. Pleasure Factor: This is an attempt to guage one of the more elusive factors, which is "how much pleasure does the giver of oral sex derive from the act of giving oral sex" and "is this communicated by explicit and implicit queues.

5. Technique Factor: This is an attmpt to gauge the mechanical proficiency of the act itself and the effectiveness of the act to obtain the specific outcome desired. (Basic Arousal, Heightened Arousal, Orgasm, Multiple Orgasms).

Conclusions:

So, my totally psuedo-scientific analysis draws me to the conclusion that partners who score positive values in all five factors are "great". This are the individuals who are enthusiast about oral sex, responsive during oral sex, derive personal pleasure from the delivery of oral sex, and have a wide range of techniques that are masterfully delivered.

Please complete this evaluation of your self and your partner and turn the evaluation in for further analysis.

 

[NC_Coastal]

There's cock sucking and then there's cock worship. You want the latter every time.

 

[KimGordon67]

Treatise on the Measuring the Quality of Oral Sex

Being a bit of a data geek, I did a quick survey of the literature. The literature is all over the place and is mostly focused on "have you done or have you had done" and classic survey type questionnairres. Just at the very high level, 80% (+/-) have ever had oral sex and about 40% (+/-) have had oral sex in the past year. I couldn't find anything related to quality, though there is some data around "enjoyment", which is highly subjective.

I think it's a fairly decent baseline to start and it correlates with "personal experience", where my initial thoughts on the question was 1 in 5 sexual partners deliver "good" oral sex on my personal Likert Scale. Very good falls closer to 1 in 8 to 1 in 10. (I think back on it and I've had partners in all three categories, with a normal distribution curve.)

1-Very Bad/No Oral Sex
2-Bad Oral Sex
3-Ordinary Oral Sex
4-Good Oral Sex
5-Great Oral Sex

The first couple of elements have nothing to do with technique.

1. Enthusiam Factor
2. Responsiveness Factor
3. Range of Technique Factor
4. Pleasure Factor

And then, finally, the fifth factor:

5. Technique

So lets consider one of the difficult questions, which is the question of quality and as such is highly subjective. If you take my five factor analysis and assign a simple value of -2,-1,0,+1 or +2 to each factor in evaluating the qualilty of oral sex my hypotheses is that the quality of oral sex can be evaluating by simply assigning a subjective value to each factor. Then you can simply total the scores and return a positive or negative value. Technique, as only one of the factors, can compensate for the a limited amount of low scores in the other factors, but good oral sex has at least three positive factors and great oral sex has positive values in all factors.

Definitions:

1. Enthusiam Factor: This is an attempt to answer three fundamental questions that are key to the subsequent factors. Enthusiam is how much does the giver WANT to give oral sex. Is it a must have for every sexual encounter? Most sexual encounters? Some sexual encounters? Only when requested? Do they convey that enthusiam through their actions? Requesting oral sex frequently? Initiating oral sex frequently? This is the "gateway" factor that then allows a proper scoring of the remaining four factors.

2. Responsiveness Factor: This guages the degree to which the giver of oral sex is paying attention to the impact of oral sex on their partner and being responsive to both explicit cues (communication) and implicit cues (non-verbal communication and physical reactions). A highly responsive partner is valued.

3. Range of Technique: The guages the variety of techniques the partner has at their disposal and their willingness to learn new techniques, again, either through explicit or implicit cues. The wider the giver of oral sex's range of technique, the better.

4. Pleasure Factor: This is an attempt to guage one of the more elusive factors, which is "how much pleasure does the giver of oral sex derive from the act of giving oral sex" and "is this communicated by explicit and implicit queues.

5. Technique Factor: This is an attmpt to gauge the mechanical proficiency of the act itself and the effectiveness of the act to obtain the specific outcome desired. (Basic Arousal, Heightened Arousal, Orgasm, Multiple Orgasms).

Conclusions:

So, my totally psuedo-scientific analysis draws me to the conclusion that partners who score positive values in all five factors are "great". This are the individuals who are enthusiast about oral sex, responsive during oral sex, derive personal pleasure from the delivery of oral sex, and have a wide range of techniques that are masterfully delivered.

Please complete this evaluation of your self and your partner and turn the evaluation in for further analysis.

I am definitely going to come back to this. I'm all about the science.

 

[KimGordon67]

I'll give me short answer. Lol

His comment, "your commitment to sucking my cock", I think, is probably one of those massive, HUGE indicators as to how good a blowjob really is.

There's going through the motions to getting a man off quickly. Then there's the commitment to making him feel like you're in it for his pleasure, not just to check something off a list.

Hopefully that helps, too.

I'm in for his pleasure AND my own pleasure. I love sucking a cock ... well, not just any cock, but one that's attached to someone I'm enjoying being with. It's honestly the thing I think about most often when I'm thinking about sex.

 

[KimGordon67]

There's cock sucking and then there's cock worship. You want the latter every time.

I think I have to know someone fairly well to move into the 'worship' category. While I think all my blowjobs are pretty great, when I'm really comfortable with someone I can just focus on that to the exclusion of everything else, and stop thinking and just being in the moment of the 'doing', if that makes sense?

 

[NC_Coastal]

Sounds like you're ready for church! On your knees, heathen!

 

[ultramarineblue]

It was great! I'm so happy ... it's been SO LONG since I got properly laid. He did all the right first time things - maintained eye contact while we were fucking (which I've discovered is quite important to me), talked and laughed at various points, checked in a few times to make sure I was all good, made me cum about five times, and only came himself after something like two hours, and then I made sandwiches and we sat in bed eating and drinking beer and talking until he had to bugger off.
I message him after he got home and asked if there any one thing he particularly enjoyed (this is research for me, not looking for affirmation - I like to know what someone enjoys so I can build on that, and he said 'your commitment to sucking my cock'. I feel so fucking affirmed, even though that's not what I was looking for - I put quite a bit of effort into blow jobs (mostly because it's something I really enjoy doing, but also because I know from talking to quite a few guys that they really like a really good blow job).
And I think there's promise for some kinky fuckery in there as well. There was just a couple of moments where I thought 'oh ... hmmm'. I suspect he's quite receptive to trying things ... most people who are really into sex are pretty open. And he's definitely really into sex - like the actual sex, not just as a means to an end.
HUZZAH!!!

That’s so awesome! I’m like you in that I research what others like to build on it. I love asking what a partner really enjoyed and even asking what they would like to be different.

Awesome way to start a relationship! Glad to hear the sex was sizzling. And yes, a really good blowjob is hard to find.

Why are they so hard to find? I’m like Kim in that I find it hard to believe that they aren’t more easily found. I get that amazing ones may not be easy to find but would more be good but not great?

Is that true? I find it hard to believe ... it's so much fun, why wouldn't any give it their all? What does a 'not good' blowjob even look like?

Any contributions to this discussion welcome ... I spend a lot of time doing research to improve my blowjobs (OK, maybe not a LOT of time, but some), so I'm also always interested in any little tricks or preferences that people have. But also things that are not great, so one knows what to avoid.

I really don’t understand how someone would not love giving a blow job. It’s so incredible. I’ve been extremely lucky to have one partner that will tell me exactly what to do when he wants me to do it and I’ve learned so much from that. I wonder how many of the things I’ve learned others would enjoy and how many are specific to just him. That’s making me want to do more research which would be amazing since I would get to give more blow jobs and also learn which techniques are more often enjoyed.

 

[Paul_Chance]

I think part of it is this - contrary to Lit (which is a site that attracts an erotic oriented community). When it comes to lovers:

1. There are those who have no interest in/will not perform/will not receive oral sex. That's that 20% of people who report never having oral sex.
2. There are those who are oral sex reluctant, they will give or receive oral sex, but only rarely and under very exacting circumstances. That's fine and falls into the "everyone has their preference category". That's the 60% of people who report not having oral sex in the last year.
3. There are those who do not like oral sex but will perform it for a partner if requested - but that reluctance (which is apparent if you're paying attention, as you should be) is a buzz kill.
4. Then there are those who see oral sex as "prelude only" and it plays a limited role in their sex life, restricted to "before coitus" only.
5. There are those who are simply "not good" at it, whom it's a mechanical act, or a limited variation act, and who miss feedback entirely and aren't willing to vary their technique. These are the people you sometimes encounter who are lovers who won't pay attention to or take any improvement tips.
6. Finally, there are those who are enthusiastic (like Kim), who derive pleasure from it, and who work to improve their abilities as a lover.

I think one of the things that happens in life is the "selection bias" - for those of us who love oral sex, we gravitate toward partners who share that. So, we wonder "why doesn't everyone love oral sex" because in our experience, the people we associate with do.

 

[IrisAlthea]

That’s so awesome! I’m like you in that I research what others like to build on it. I love asking what a partner really enjoyed and even asking what they would like to be different.

Why are they so hard to find? I’m like Kim in that I find it hard to believe that they aren’t more easily found. I get that amazing ones may not be easy to find but would more be good but not great?

I really don’t understand how someone would not love giving a blow job. It’s so incredible. I’ve been extremely lucky to have one partner that will tell me exactly what to do when he wants me to do it and I’ve learned so much from that. I wonder how many of the things I’ve learned others would enjoy and how many are specific to just him. That’s making me want to do more research which would be amazing since I would get to give more blow jobs and also learn which techniques are more often enjoyed.

I think many people don’t give that feedback and it’s hard to get better at something if noone tells you what you get right and what you get wrong.
Part of it is probably fear of scaring the partner off or seeming ungrateful and another might be being shy about talking about sex.
I also hear women talk about how men assume that women all want their oral the same way but there seems to be some idea that men all want the same things or are somehow less discriminating about it.

 

[KimGordon67]

I think part of it is this - contrary to Lit (which is a site that attracts an erotic oriented community). When it comes to lovers:

1. There are those who have no interest in/will not perform/will not receive oral sex. That's that 20% of people who report never having oral sex.
2. There are those who are oral sex reluctant, they will give or receive oral sex, but only rarely and under very exacting circumstances. That's fine and falls into the "everyone has their preference category". That's the 60% of people who report not having oral sex in the last year.
3. There are those who do not like oral sex but will perform it for a partner if requested - but that reluctance (which is apparent if you're paying attention, as you should be) is a buzz kill.
4. Then there are those who see oral sex as "prelude only" and it plays a limited role in their sex life, restricted to "before coitus" only.
5. There are those who are simply "not good" at it, whom it's a mechanical act, or a limited variation act, and who miss feedback entirely and aren't willing to vary their technique. These are the people you sometimes encounter who are lovers who won't pay attention to or take any improvement tips.
6. Finally, there are those who are enthusiastic (like Kim), who derive pleasure from it, and who work to improve their abilities as a lover.

I think one of the things that happens in life is the "selection bias" - for those of us who love oral sex, we gravitate toward partners who share that. So, we wonder "why doesn't everyone love oral sex" because in our experience, the people we associate with do.

I would put that into a 'loves sex in general' category. There's definitely people who *enjoy* sex - really, most of the population, to some extent (I think?). But not everyone can spend a whole day in bed. And not everyone will spend time on sites like Lit digging around to find new and interesting things they might like to try.
I tend to see oral as a given - like, I would expect there to be some oral involved almost every time I have sex (with some exceptions). I never think of it as something I, or the person I'm with, should need to ask for ... of course, asking for it is fine, but that shouldn't be necessary as a rule. The social worker didn't go down on me at all, either of times we were in bed ... which I found especially odd, considering he knew he had issues with getting it up, so you'd think he would have worked with the myriad other options available, oral being almost the most obvious.
The other two guys I've had regular sex with in recent years (the sociopath and the Local Guy) didn't really put a lot of emphasis on fucking, I think because neither of them came that often, so they were all about the journey, with the end point often not even being reached (for them ... needless to say, cumming wasn't an issue for ME). I feel like the new new guy might fall into that category - although he did cum, it was only after a long time, and even then he was like 'damn - I didn't want to happen so quickly' (because I think he's also in the group of guys who just lose impetus after they cum). So there's always a lot of oral, in all its configurations.

 

[KimGordon67]

I think many people don’t give that feedback and it’s hard to get better at something if noone tells you what you get right and what you get wrong.
Part of it is probably fear of scaring the partner off or seeming ungrateful and another might be being shy about talking about sex.
I also hear women talk about how men assume that women all want their oral the same way but there seems to be some idea that men all want the same things or are somehow less discriminating about it.

I just ask. I think you're right though - a lot of people would rather poke their eye with a sharp stick than talk about sex - my ex husband was one of those, which made things a bit difficult. The social worker also didn't seem particularly up for a 'so, what's your most out-there kink?' conversation. I think that's a bit of barometer, actually, in terms of how 'into' sex they actually are (see above). So I was pleased when I asked the new new guy what he liked, and he was pretty specific in his response. I think it helps if you give the sort of feedback you'd like to receive as well ... but only if they don't find that sort of thing mortifyingly embarrassing.

 

[KimGordon67]

And another thing ... I was so pleased with the new new guy that he maintained eye contact while we were fucking. I don't know when this became so important to me, but it's almost a deal breaker now - if someone has their eyes closed most of the time, I just end up losing my metaphorical hard on.

 

[drobert44]

And another thing ... I was so pleased with the new new guy that he maintained eye contact while we were fucking. I don't know when this became so important to me, but it's almost a deal breaker now - if someone has their eyes closed most of the time, I just end up losing my metaphorical hard on.

That's chicken shit, not looking at the woman you are screwing. Where's the love?

 

[KimGordon67]

Treatise on the Measuring the Quality of Oral Sex

Being a bit of a data geek, I did a quick survey of the literature. The literature is all over the place and is mostly focused on "have you done or have you had done" and classic survey type questionnairres. Just at the very high level, 80% (+/-) have ever had oral sex and about 40% (+/-) have had oral sex in the past year. I couldn't find anything related to quality, though there is some data around "enjoyment", which is highly subjective.

I think it's a fairly decent baseline to start and it correlates with "personal experience", where my initial thoughts on the question was 1 in 5 sexual partners deliver "good" oral sex on my personal Likert Scale. Very good falls closer to 1 in 8 to 1 in 10. (I think back on it and I've had partners in all three categories, with a normal distribution curve.)

1-Very Bad/No Oral Sex
2-Bad Oral Sex
3-Ordinary Oral Sex
4-Good Oral Sex
5-Great Oral Sex

The first couple of elements have nothing to do with technique.

1. Enthusiam Factor
2. Responsiveness Factor
3. Range of Technique Factor
4. Pleasure Factor

And then, finally, the fifth factor:

5. Technique

So lets consider one of the difficult questions, which is the question of quality and as such is highly subjective. If you take my five factor analysis and assign a simple value of -2,-1,0,+1 or +2 to each factor in evaluating the qualilty of oral sex my hypotheses is that the quality of oral sex can be evaluating by simply assigning a subjective value to each factor. Then you can simply total the scores and return a positive or negative value. Technique, as only one of the factors, can compensate for the a limited amount of low scores in the other factors, but good oral sex has at least three positive factors and great oral sex has positive values in all factors.

Definitions:

1. Enthusiam Factor: This is an attempt to answer three fundamental questions that are key to the subsequent factors. Enthusiam is how much does the giver WANT to give oral sex. Is it a must have for every sexual encounter? Most sexual encounters? Some sexual encounters? Only when requested? Do they convey that enthusiam through their actions? Requesting oral sex frequently? Initiating oral sex frequently? This is the "gateway" factor that then allows a proper scoring of the remaining four factors.

2. Responsiveness Factor: This guages the degree to which the giver of oral sex is paying attention to the impact of oral sex on their partner and being responsive to both explicit cues (communication) and implicit cues (non-verbal communication and physical reactions). A highly responsive partner is valued.

3. Range of Technique: The guages the variety of techniques the partner has at their disposal and their willingness to learn new techniques, again, either through explicit or implicit cues. The wider the giver of oral sex's range of technique, the better.

4. Pleasure Factor: This is an attempt to guage one of the more elusive factors, which is "how much pleasure does the giver of oral sex derive from the act of giving oral sex" and "is this communicated by explicit and implicit queues.

5. Technique Factor: This is an attmpt to gauge the mechanical proficiency of the act itself and the effectiveness of the act to obtain the specific outcome desired. (Basic Arousal, Heightened Arousal, Orgasm, Multiple Orgasms).

Conclusions:

So, my totally psuedo-scientific analysis draws me to the conclusion that partners who score positive values in all five factors are "great". This are the individuals who are enthusiast about oral sex, responsive during oral sex, derive personal pleasure from the delivery of oral sex, and have a wide range of techniques that are masterfully delivered.

Please complete this evaluation of your self and your partner and turn the evaluation in for further analysis.

I lost track of how to score this evaluation. But I give myself a 5/5 for enthusiasm, responsiveness and pleasure, and maybe a 4/5 for range of technique and technique, because those are things that can be improved on, and I think there's always room for improvement.

To that end, I'm always interested to learn about any little tricks or quirks people have (either that's in their inventory as the giver of a BJ, or that they've particularly enjoyed as the receiver of a BJ).

 

[KimGordon67]

That's chicken shit, not looking at the woman you are screwing. Where's the love?

I dumped a guy recently because of that. (There were other things as well, but that was really the final nail in the coffin.)

 

[drobert44]

I dumped a guy recently because of that. (There were other things as well, but that was really the final nail in the coffin.)

When dating a lady, I would always take her to lunch, chat her up to see if we are at least friends. Gotta make eyes to do that!

 

[Paul_Chance]

When I run into the "no eye contact during sex" thing, I always find it just...strange. I can understand closing your eyes (sort of a self imposed blindfold) to focus on the physical sensations, but that's a temporary and circumstantial thing.

The other thing that I find strange, that I have bumped into a few times, is people who are absolutely silent during sex. No words. No vocalizations. No moaning. Just silence. I have bumped into that a few times and I usually ask why and the answers are usual some variation of "embarrassed by noises".

 

[KimGordon67]

When I run into the "no eye contact during sex" thing, I always find it just...strange. I can understand closing your eyes (sort of a self imposed blindfold) to focus on the physical sensations, but that's a temporary and circumstantial thing.

The other thing that I find strange, that I have bumped into a few times, is people who are absolutely silent during sex. No words. No vocalizations. No moaning. Just silence. I have bumped into that a few times and I usually ask why and the answers are usual some variation of "embarrassed by noises".

Yes, closing your eyes to focus on something is, I think, pretty usual. There's actually a nice little low-key control game in that - instructing someone to maintain eye contact while they're cumming. Well, it's a game that works for me anyway - I find it very difficult to do.

And I'm with you on the silence thing. The social worker was like that. Very difficult to work out if he was enjoying something. The one time he did cum, I didn't even really know whether he had or not. I think I do vary a bit depending on the other person - the ex-sociopath really like hearing me, so I gradually become quite loud with him. But the local guy seemed to find that ... something. Offputting maybe? So I ended up toning it down a bit. But I couldn't imagine make NO sound. I just don't even know if that's possible. And how on earth would phone sex work?

 

[Paul_Chance]

Yeah, for me, that lack of non-verbal clues make it challenging. Are they enjoying it? Are they bored? Am I completely missing the mark?

 

[KimGordon67]

Yeah, for me, that lack of non-verbal clues make it challenging. Are they enjoying it? Are they bored? Am I completely missing the mark?

I just end up giving up ... it's like these people have trained themselves to just not enjoy sex or something. It's quite odd. The new new guy is definitely not like that - I got a lot of 'fuck, that feels good', obviously physical responses, non-verbal but audible cues. So helpful ... and really, so much more fun. Who doesn't like a bit of affirmation when they're fucking?

 

[Paul_Chance]

I just end up giving up ... it's like these people have trained themselves to just not enjoy sex or something. It's quite odd. The new new guy is definitely not like that - I got a lot of 'fuck, that feels good', obviously physical responses, non-verbal but audible cues. So helpful ... and really, so much more fun. Who doesn't like a bit of affirmation when they're fucking?

Yeah, there is a point at which you just give up because you can't figure it out. That's the challenge with the lack of good communication, you have no idea where you are and what's going on. I much prefer - faster, slower, there, here, harder. It just makes it easier and more fun.

 

[KimGordon67]

Yeah, there is a point at which you just give up because you can't figure it out. That's the challenge with the lack of good communication, you have no idea where you are and what's going on. I much prefer - faster, slower, there, here, harder. It just makes it easier and more fun.

Yep, with a few 'fuck yes's thrown in. Just all communication really. Smiling, laughing ... it's all good. Actually, those things are especially good - it's really nice to know that someone's having *fun*.

 

[Paul_Chance]

Yep, with a few 'fuck yes's thrown in. Just all communication really. Smiling, laughing ... it's all good. Actually, those things are especially good - it's really nice to know that someone's having *fun*.

Humor is a necessity in my book, especially for a relationship of any depth. Life is full of things we should be laughing about...and it makes the harder points in time more easily bearable.