Love, it's a motherfuck.

[SeaCat]

Here's the thing: more than 50% of marriages fail. Most sexual and romantic relationships fail. These people were in love at some point, but remember that love and hate live in the same neighborhood, and either can turn on a dime.

I've long maintained that the reason that most "love" relationships fail is because "love" in our society has been so romanticized that it has become a fantasy, and we have been taught that all our fantasies are supposed to come true. So when you "love" someone, you set yourself up for a whole series of impossible expectations that in the real world simply cannot come true.

For you, Joe, it's the Barbie fantasy. Like most men, you have things about women that you find sexy and appealing, and you naturally want them. Women are the same way, which fuels the romance novel industry (which the last time I checked was about the same size as the porn industry). But you are also wise enough to see that this is a fantasy, and there is a part of you that understands what makes most successful relationships work.

Firendship. When I look at couples that have been together for 50+ years, I always am struck at not how much they love each other but how much they LIKE each other. Friendship is much, much more durable than "love", and the kind of love it engenders is much more durable also. My guess is that when you want to have sex with a Barbie it's because you want to feel good, but having sex with your best friend is largely because you want her to feel good.

The problem is that our society doesn't acknowledge the kind of love found in a friendship as being valid for sexual relationships. We pile the false, romantic "love" on anything sexual and tell stories about "true love" and "soulmates" and all that rubbish. We tell people that sex must be reserved for idealistic, fantasy "lovers" and not for those whom we are actually closest to: our best friends of the gender we like to have sex with.

I don't have an answer for you, Joe. She may well be trapped inthe paradigm of fantasy and romantic love and not see that maybe she's got a chance for something much more profound and lasting by loving her best friend instead. If this is the case for either of you, it won't work. But if you can both see past the lie of "love" and see the truth of friendship and real love, it might work.

The only way to know is to take the chance and talk to her about it. I wish you the best.

Joe

I'm not the best person to answer this question. I have only been in a couple of meaningful relationships. The first was very short but very intense. It should have lasted forever but it was interupted.
The second though has lasted for twelve years now. Both of these relationships had two things in common. Both of them started with my mate being my friend. Both of them had this friend turning into a lover.

My wife of twelve years is, (gasp) my best friend.

A couple of ideas my parents passed on to me when I was younger.
1) There can be love without friendship, but it doesn't last.
2) There can be lust without love, but it soon fades.
3) A true friendship has trust and communication in it.

For what it's worth a solid relationship has at it's base friendship.

Now my free advice. (Free advice can be freely ignored.) If you believe you have fallen in love with your best friend, and think she feels that you are her best friend as well, then broach the subject with her gently. (Yo you Cunt Lapping Whore, I love you and want to know if you feel the same, is not a good approach.) If you have the feeling that asking her about her feelings towards yourself isn't a good idea then you have an answer. (Refer to number three above. If you can't talk with her it isn't going to happen.) If she rebuffs you then you also have an answer. If however, she seems to delay answering then you have a chance. (She may just jump your bones while giving you a ring, that too is an answer.) If she seems hesitant about answering give her time. We all know people who's relationships seemed to take forever to form.

Cat

 

[shereads]

It's time to bring out the T-Shirt Test.

Ladies and gentlemen, as we discuss the social aspects of love and romance and sexual attraction, it may be helpful to be reminded that sexual attraction has nothing to do with friendship, social IQ or finding your life mate, and everything to do with DNA.

The sad truth of the T-Shirt Test is that opposites attract but only long enough to get sperm A united with ovum Z. Not ovum B, because nature doesn't want us to marry our cousin from the neighboring trailer park, it wants us to breed with the cousins of a dozen other people,whose DNA is not like ours.

The T-Shirt Test indicates that nature is awful at relationships and doesn't give a rat's toenail about our soulmates. It wants us to keep the species healthy, period. If we mate with people who remind us of ourselves, there's an increased likelihood that we'll produce a line of knuckle-draggers, or Prince Charles. (Diana brought the gene for firm chins into that family and they didn't even appreciate it!)

There's an even scarier aspect to this, but I'll save it for the end. Some of you know the ending; don't spoil it!

A summary of the T-Shirt Test:

A university study required volunteers (college-age women) to rate the sexual attractiveness of men by handling an item of clothing. In brief, they got to smell the guys' unlaundered t-shirts. I don't remember the details that made this make sense. I only remember the t-shirts, the sniffing, and the conclusion:

Women overwhelming selected men whose DNA was as nearly opposite their own as available. Opposites attract, right?

Not quite. Women who were on the Pill, which simulates aspects of pregnancy, were just as likely to choose men whose DNA closely matched her own.

So we're left with a mess. A 3-part mess.

1. Each woman is programmed to be sexually attracted to two completely different types of men, which changes with hormonal circumstance. If this is true, it means that the social ideal - at least the one traditionally assumed for women - of marriage, family, monogamy happily ever after - is no more "natural" than random promiscuity. (I'm not talking morality or safety here, just T-Shirts.) The man of your dreams - or more accurately, the man of your sexual fantasies - is the one whose DNA is your opposite and who, if you're lucky, has some other qualities so you can call it love. If he has nothing going for him but your sexual craving for his pheromones, your friends will think you're crazy and they'll resent the price of those hideous bridesmaids' dresses even more than usual. Let's assume that he's not only sexy, but loveable. You're a lovely bride!

2. So you're married to the man who makes you all quivery with lust, and nature takes its course. Now that you're pregnant, nature should be happy for you, shouldn't it? Instead, nature changes its mind and decides you're attracted to men whose DNA is much like your own. Men who are nothing at all like the one whose baby you're having. The good news is, once the pregnancy is over and your hormones get back to normal, nature switches you back into "opposites attract" mode. Now that you want him again, let's hope you managed to avoid telling him how you felt about him a few months ago. Maybe he's still available.

3. WARNING! Do NOT Read !

The birth control pill. If you're on it when you fall in love/lust with Mr. Right, you're in "similar DNA" mode. You two are so much alike, and so cute together! You should get married...But if you go off the Pill to have a family, your hormones switch into their natural "opposites attract" mode. Until you get pregnant, and then he's Mr. Right again. Until the baby comes, and your hormones get back to normal. Now you're attracted to the kind of man you'd have wanted when you were dating this other person, if you hadn't been on the Pill.

This shouldn't discourage anyone from taking the Pill; it might mean that you should stay on it permanently, or at least as long as you're married, except for breaks to have a baby now and then.

My work is done here. I hope this has brought some sunshine into your day, ladies. You guys can relax, you'll always be attracted to the nearest woman whose breasts seem to speak to you. After age 35, it'll be the nearest woman five to ten years younger than you, plus the breasts.



Edited to add: The T-Shirt Test, if it's valid, does have one positive thing to recommend it. It explains why men are forever saying women are impossible to please. "What do women want?" We don't want you, you loser! Sleeping with you was the biggest mistake of our lives, and we want...Oops. Hormone fluctuation. I love you, baby. Let me give you a shoulder massage.

 

[shereads]

Yo you Cunt Lapping Whore, I love you and want to know if you feel the same, is not a good approach.

HAAAAAA ROFL LOL ETC.

Cat, that took me completely by surprise. It was beautiful.

Not quite up to Smoove B standards, but it beats the come-on that a co-worker of mine used to say worked best just before the bars close: "For a fat girl, you don't sweat much."

I return you to your thread now, with thanks for the laugh.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

If you're still operating under the assumption that love is predicated on looks, then maybe you shouldn't be involved in it yet. That's kind of like betting on a team because you like the color of the uniforms.

---dr.M.

 

[pop_54]

Shouldn't be replying to this really having been drinking and all, but....

Am I reading this right: You're worried about falling in love with a bird who looks normal, and acts like a real person?... You usually go for blonde hair, big tits, and zero personality cheerleader types??

Hmm... Go for the normal bird mate... all your mates would wind up poking the other sort behind your back.

 

[Guest]

Go for the normal bird mate... all your mates would wind up poking the other sort behind your back.

This man knows everything.

Perdita

 

[shereads]

Hmm... Go for the normal bird mate... all your mates would wind up poking the other sort behind your back.

Pops, you may just have boosted Barbie's value into the stratosphere. I don't know Joe well, but there are people who can't resist a challenge like that.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I'm sure at some point the proper course of action will become clear to me. I am a rational man. Its my job and my passion and my lifestyle. Problems have solutions, X is predicated by Y. Time, effort, and reason prevails.

However, I am in a terrible confusion of parts that don't work as a whole.

It's love stuff. Not the topic du jour, I'm sure, but its on my mind and if nobody really minds I'll just talk about it a bit. So, there's this girl, see? And she's entirely not my type.

Not at all.

I have a preference in women that can be derived from my avatar, I'm sure. I like something in a firm, tanned, gorgeous blonde; something sorority-like. That's my type. I find no shame in that. But, even in the cases of that being 9/10 girlfriends for me, there is this one girl...

She's not quite a Barbie. She's shy, reserved, a book-reader-type (if that holds any meaning for anyone). She's the oldest friend I've got, and I know that if I were to marry anyone... well, it'd probably be her. We're just that close.

However, that I've got feelings for her is a complication. And, lately, I've been fearing that as I'm certain that nothing can come of it... that I am wasting my time falling prey to those feelings. Is Love really worth waiting for? What if you're not interested in waiting? What if you just can't wait?

Good question for discussion, I think.

solid gold

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

I suppose though unpopular a notion, I am a bit shallow. I don't know if everyone is or isn't, or even if people here are or aren't... but I cannot deny that I am very much impressed, attracted to, and drawn toward beautiful, foxy young women.

It's not an intentional thing, I don't think. At least, I can't recall ever making a concious decision to dig on one sort of girl or another. But, nevertheless, slim and trim and busty and hot... that's my speed. Question is (and I'm not sure I can answer it intelligently) whether I'd compromise that desire.

 

[Guest]

When you really fall in love you'll compromise everything.

seriously, Perdita

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

I dunno about that. I mean to say, circumstance has not forced me to quite yet... so I can't be certain I'm not "properly in love". I'd like to think things like "well, if you were /really/ in love you wouldn't question, you'd just know" or "nobody can tell if you're in love, you just know"... I am not certain those are anything more than cliche's.

Maybe love, all in all, is quantifiable (or at least qualifiable).

 

[shereads]

I dunno about that. I mean to say, circumstance has not forced me to quite yet... so I can't be certain I'm not "properly in love". I'd like to think things like "well, if you were /really/ in love you wouldn't question, you'd just know" or "nobody can tell if you're in love, you just know"... I am not certain those are anything more than cliche's.

Maybe love, all in all, is quantifiable (or at least qualifiable).

A sure sign that you're in love: relentless cycles of elation and excruciating psychic pain, focused upon one Barbie in particular. It might be "Shoppin' Boppin'" Barbie or "Bad At Math" Barbie or even Little Mermaid Barbie, and it might even be this girl who isn't your type. But whichever one it is, you'll wonder what you ever saw in the others.

Until...