Polyamory - Extending your family

[beth-n-mike]

its scary/amazing how "cool" poly has become ,... i find it sometimes depressing , since a lot of folks who have heard about poly seem to think its exactly like swinging and wife swapping,

ok, granted for some it may be like that, but the fact is, for the vast majority of poly folks its not, its a lot more about being in loving relathionships, with more than one partner,


having been poly for almost all my adult sexual life , i find it well, rather depressing to see all the ads lookign for a "hot bi babe"

especially when thats not what we are looking for, alas, always seeking the uncommon...


happily married poly pagan couple, seeking 3rd

 

[Richard49]

its scary/amazing how "cool" poly has become ,... i find it sometimes depressing , since a lot of folks who have heard about poly seem to think its exactly like swinging and wife swapping,

happily married poly pagan couple, seeking 3rd

For many swingers they think they are poly
How unfortunate for the rest of us

 

[Joe Adcock]

Hiya B & M...

...it wouldn't be fair to react principally to your snotty, more poly than thou tone, when your complaint is a very valid one. And given that virtually everyone I've ever met in the poly community takes the time during their opening spiel to denigrate swinging and swingers, you barely made me feel despised at all this time. It doesn't faze me any more, because I know how much more fun I am having than when I sat around paying lip service to polyamory, and the polyamory community did its best to ignore me and my partner. We didn't really expect any of them to become partners, but it turned out that not many of them had time to make friends, either.

In contrast, we've made numerous friends through the swing club we belong to, and we've come to feel some measure of emotional attachment and devotion to many of them -- exactly the kind of expanded relationships we thought we were going to find in the polyamory community.

For many people, embracing polyamory seems to be a reaction to non-monogamous impulses that don't really suggest they will be happy by developing deep emotional bonds with more partners. But because their moral and ethical posture, or at least that of their partner, precludes the pursuit of nasty, dirty sex without lots of progressive psychological rhetoric, they end up calling themselves polyamorists.

I also talked more about sex and happiness in the first ten minutes of conversation with another couple at the swing club I frequent, than I did in 18 months trying to fit in to the polyamory community.

I think that finding additional partners to become part of an existing relationship is almost always painfully difficult, and in many cases, simply the wrong thing to do. What will happen if you come to a similar decision after you've already convinced a hot bi babe or boy to disrupt their life in order to join yours? I no longer have the strength of ego to assume that whatever fraction of myself that I can give to another full-time partner will be enough to sustain the relationship. I'm too devoted to my primary partner, and my work, to be a good partner in a poly relationship. If can look at your situation as objectively as you possiblty can, then imagine dividing the devotion you feel for your partner between two people, and imagine twice as many demands on your time and emotions as you currently experience, and if you still think it sounds like more fulfillment than work, you might want to give it a try.

Or you might need treatment for delusional psychosis.

 

[Joe Adcock]

For many swingers they think they are poly
How unfortunate for the rest of us

What is this, a fortune cookie crossed with hate mail? There's no reason you can't be a bigot and still use punctuation, Richard.

 

[Richard49]

What is this, a fortune cookie crossed with hate mail? There's no reason you can't be a bigot and still use punctuation, Richard.

Not hate mail at all

If you have been following this thread
you would see that piper and I started it with the concept that love is required for our definition of poly


When swingers say they are poly and there is not love between them and there exchange partners than it gives a movement that I have been part of for many decades a bad name .. a bad taste in the mouths of those that might benefit from a poly lifestyle.....

It also than takes much time to explain that poly is more than sex.

Making personal shots at my spelling, typing and punctuation only shows a lack of manners on the part of those that do it
kind of like the bad manners of swingers that say they are poly

I have owned two swing clubs over the years and now run a discussion list for swingers in Michigan. Sex for sake of sex has never been my bag. However if it someone elses so be it ...
I wish them the best on there journey ......

 

[beth-n-mike]

Re: Hiya B & M...

...it wouldn't be fair to react principally to your snotty, more poly than thou tone, when your complaint is a very valid one. And given that virtually everyone I've ever met in the poly community takes the time during their opening spiel to denigrate swinging and swingers, you barely made me feel despised at all this time. It doesn't faze me any more, because I know how much more fun I am having than when I sat around paying lip service to polyamory, and the polyamory community did its best to ignore me and my partner. We didn't really expect any of them to become partners, but it turned out that not many of them had time to make friends, either.
.

hmm...
odd, while the knee jerk reaction was negative, after re reading... you know i can see exactly where youre coming from ..

sounds like , you maybe had some really negative experiences, in the 2 poly groups i used to regularly associate with , the subgect of swinging was essentially a non issue, but , we were a pretty small social group , and most everyone there was in a tribe already.. so without outside input, perhaps thats why it never came up..
in the second group , it was more open and less commited folks, more lie poly 101 type group.. and yeah , a lot of bashing went on... funny in a way...because its a lot like when new pagans join a group and bash christian ..happens all the time.. and i dont see people leaving chrisitanity cause they have been disparaged either..

that all being said, i do strongly believe that poly/swining/wife swapping.. what have you are all aspects of the same thing...
and each individual has to learn whats best for them , no matter what...
friendship is highly under rated in some of the poly groups ... and some of them are also rather closed to new people joingin thier ranks .... but i have found the same in any type of group ... group dynamics at some point or another tend to close to outside influences to preserve the group...


hope all this makes sense.....

 

[Sandia]

Bump

I've been following this thread for a while, and I want to thank everybody who's posted here, give it a bump, and try to encourage y'all to continue the conversation.

beth n mike I think you're right on target with your last post.

Seems like whenever there's a new group, the first thing they do is circle the wagons and start taking pot-shots at outsiders. And I agree that whatever you want to call it, the bottom line is you have to decide for yourself what exactly the connection between love and sex is for you.

And frankly, I think Joe made some good points too. I can't help but believe, even as I read through this wonderful thread, that polyamory has gotta be tough; and the more "equal" the secondary relationship, the tougher it's gotta be.

I'm also not sure that jealousy is just a manifestation of low-self esteem. It may be that it's a perfectly rational fear of loss of someone you love.



pipercatt What's happening in your life? Have you found the other love you were looking for?

jewel Have you resolved your doubts? Have you decided what to do?

Joe Do you regret the "bigot" and "punctuation" remarks?

beth n mike Which one of you is actually sitting there, typing out the messages?

Earnestly hoping for responses, especially from pipercatt,
Sandia.

 

[pipercatt]

Re: Bump

<snip>
pipercatt What's happening in your life? Have you found the other love you were looking for?

Earnestly hoping for responses, especially from pipercatt,
</snip>

Hi there Sandia,

I've been neglecting this thread for awhile - you all have my apologies.

As to the tenseness of the last few posts, all I can say is, in my experience lots of poly people have held swinging in less than high regard, and with little reason. The chicago area e-group I occasionally read has had it's flame wars over it in the past, and I just don't see the need. Swingers, to my knowledge have always been as open and honest as poly people in their wants and needs, so why we don't all just get along is beyond me.

As to what's happening in my life, Sandia...it's not been pretty lately, and the reason why I haven't posted. My husband and I have decided to seperate, and will be filing for divorce in August. He and I realized that while we do love each other, we don't have a passion for each other, and dating and loving others has made it painfully obvious. We want to remain friends, and therefore, we felt it was necessary.

So, call me a hypocrite, say that my great expirement didn't work, I don't know or care. I still believe that it is possible to love more than one, even though hubby and I didn't last. Now, our problems were deeper and went on far longer than our marriage has been open. We'd just gotten really good at talking around our problems, thinking we were working to solve them, but we really weren't. I can see that now, and it gets clearer every day.

As for other things, I've gone back to trade school, to learn a new job. I've been playing housewife for so long that the thought of going back to the office terrifies me. I'm in the middle of an intensive 2 week course, and another reason why I've not been to the boards in awhile.

Prior to my marriage breaking up, I'd started seeing another man, who had the potential to be something special. He and I are still seeing each other, in fact, he's coming for our second visit next week. I'm really looking forward it.

Other than that, not much is going on. LOL. Seriously, the pain of dissolving 13 years of marriage, and the start of this new relationship has not made me want to date anyone else at the moment. I simply have way too much going on in my head to involve other people. I wouldn't be fair to them, or to myself. I feel bad enough for my current love, he's definitely not seeing me at my best. He's a brave dude for hanging on as long as he has!

Grin.

Sandia, I hope that catches you up on me. if you have any questions, I won't hide any more...lol.

 

[1sexylady]

Pipercatt your missed in the Kitchen......

We miss seeing you and talking with you so come visit when you get the chance.... Ok Sissygirl..

 

[Sandia]

Pipercatt! It's so nice to see you. And if it's not too forward, please know that my heart goes out to you. The truth is I've been going through a lot with my own (nine year) marriage, and so I feel like I know (some of) what you're going through. I hope you can draw support from your friends here. I'm sure there's lots of folks, including me, who will offer their support if you ask. Even if you don't ask, for that matter... --hugs--

And please, please don't call yourself a hypocrite. I don't know what else to say about that except the obvious - there's tons of non-polyamorous folks who break up. And, as somebody said here before, there's more than a few marriages that last only because of outside relationships. My own opinion is that even if your marriage broke up directly because of poly it would still not make you a hypocrite; just a woman doing her best like all of us.

If you'd be willing to share some of what you've been going through, it'd be appreciated.

Sandia.

 

[pipercatt]

Sandia,

Thank you. That was very sweet of you to say. I've actually been getting a lot of support from people here at Lit and in real life. I've really been blessed by all the people willing to help, lend a shoulder and an ear, etc. Definitely makes it easier to know that you have people out there that love you and support you.

As for expounding on what's going on, I don't really know what else to say. I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have, poly or about me, so just ask.

1sexy, I am heading over to the Kitchen now...sorry I've been away so long...

 

[Nordic man]

Just wanted to say hello to the room. I have been enjoying the posts, some more then others.

 

[Sandia]

Sandia,

Thank you. That was very sweet of you to say. I've actually been getting a lot of support from people here at Lit and in real life. I've really been blessed by all the people willing to help, lend a shoulder and an ear, etc. Definitely makes it easier to know that you have people out there that love you and support you.

As for expounding on what's going on, I don't really know what else to say. I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have, poly or about me, so just ask.

1sexy, I am heading over to the Kitchen now...sorry I've been away so long...

Well, I want to know... everything, of course.

But, if, as I suspect, you've told what's happened many times before, I don't want to ask you to go through it all again.

I am especially curious about one thing, though (naturally for selfish reasons of my own) Do you think lack of passion was something that brought you toward poly in the first place?
And
What do you think of poly now?

Ok, that's two things, not one. But anyway.

I'm glad to hear you're getting support from your friends.
Sandia.

 

[pipercatt]

Well, I want to know... everything, of course.

But, if, as I suspect, you've told what's happened many times before, I don't want to ask you to go through it all again.

I am especially curious about one thing, though (naturally for selfish reasons of my own) Do you think lack of passion was something that brought you toward poly in the first place?
And
What do you think of poly now?

Ok, that's two things, not one. But anyway.

I'm glad to hear you're getting support from your friends.
Sandia.

I'd like to be altruistic and say that lack of passion wasn't what brought me to poly, but that wouldn't be the truth. As time goes on, I realize that it's exactly the reason I got interested in poly, and lack of passion is ultimately why our marriage failed, still.

A friend of mine said to me the other day, "Sex is a form of communication, after all, and all communication is governed by certain implicit rules and patterns. Every couple sets those rules and patterns fairly early in their relationship, and once they’re set, it’s awfully tough to change ‘em."

I had to blink a couple of times and then re-read that. What he wrote is the exact reason why my marriage failed. We couldn't change the patterns we'd set early in our marriage, even though we tried various different ways, and even (at times) deluded ourselves into thinking we had changed them. But we always reverted back.

Now, this is for my marriage only. I've known plenty of poly couples that continue to keep their primary relationship filled with with everything they need: passion, love, communication, support, etc. So, do I still believe in poly? Yes, I do. I've seen the results of a happy poly situations, and know they can work, long and short term. It takes a lot of effort, communication, and yes, some pain, to build a successful poly relationship, but if everyone wants to work towards it, and isn't afraid to take the risk, I believe it can be done.

I hope I answered your questions without going off onto too much of a tangent, Sandia. I like talking about this stuff, even if it is painful for me. It's very healing. So please, feel free to ask me if you want more.

Hugs to you, Sandia...it sounds as if you need them.

 

[pipercatt]

Just wanted to say hello to the room. I have been enjoying the posts, some more then others.

Hello to you Nordic Man. If you get back here, why don't you tell us a little about what you like and don't like. Is poly something that interests you? Are you involved in the lifestyle, or are you just looking at it in the abstract?

Yes, I am trying to get this thread going again. Even though I am chosing to take a non-active poly lifestyle for the moment, I still love to talk about it.

So please, people, come back and talk to me...

 

[Nordic man]

Hello to you Nordic Man. If you get back here, why don't you tell us a little about what you like and don't like. Is poly something that interests you? Are you involved in the lifestyle, or are you just looking at it in the abstract?

Yes, I am trying to get this thread going again. Even though I am chosing to take a non-active poly lifestyle for the moment, I still love to talk about it.

So please, people, come back and talk to me...

yes poly is something that interests me, I see myself as one of two husbands, more then being where I was with two sister-wifes. The avatar is of me. I have lived in several foreign countries and come to the realization that I could love more then one person as could they, but not in a relationship at this time

 

[Ballmidere]

Pipercatt,

What a great thread!!!!

And timely too....

I have been very interested in Polyamory for quite a while.

I have done some research and I am seriously considering starting a family.

Thank you for the post.

 

[Richard49]

Pipercatt! It's so nice to see you. And if it's not too forward, please know that my heart goes out to you. The truth is I've been going through a lot with my own (nine year) marriage, and so I feel like I know (some of) what you're going through. I hope you can draw support from your friends here. I'm sure there's lots of folks, including me, who will offer their support if you ask. Even if you don't ask, for that matter... --hugs--

And please, please don't call yourself a hypocrite. I don't know what else to say about that except the obvious - there's tons of non-polyamorous folks who break up. And, as somebody said here before, there's more than a few marriages that last only because of outside relationships. My own opinion is that even if your marriage broke up directly because of poly it would still not make you a hypocrite; just a woman doing her best like all of us.

If you'd be willing to share some of what you've been going through, it'd be appreciated.

Sandia.

What they said

 

[Richard49]

I too have been distracrted from this thread.
I know I owe answers to some questions but have forgotten which ones.

I have a new realtionship in my life that has taken up much time.
She is a sub who never told anyone of her desires untill me.
She has a 5 year old ... boy

Last Monday I had to travel top Ann Arbor VA hospital for a test.
I do not travel well.

I had a minor heart attack during test and have been trying to get my strength back.

Pipper ... you know I am in your corner.

I see swinging and poly relationships as two different groups. Some people are in both groups.

I see the reason for poly as building on the realtionships we already have and to increase our extented family. I do not see it as a place to find passion that is missing.

I will go for now.

 

[pipercatt]

Richard!!! I've missed you, Brother!!! You take it easy, and get your strength back, you hear me? Don't make me come up there and kick your ass....

Sounds like things are going well with your new relationship, though I didn't know she'd admitted to being a sub. It's wonderful when things come together like that, isn't it?

Again, rest up, luv...I'll be sending healing thoughts your way.

 

[Nordic man]

Morning room, Morning Pipercatt. I hope everyone is doing fine this morning?

 

[pipercatt]

yes poly is something that interests me, I see myself as one of two husbands, more then being where I was with two sister-wifes. The avatar is of me. I have lived in several foreign countries and come to the realization that I could love more then one person as could they, but not in a relationship at this time

Nordic man, thank you for writing back. I used to have a friend who was part of a triad that encompassed two males and a female. He was very happy with the arrangement. If I remember right, the 3 of them met as teenagers, moved in together after high school or college, and had a mess of children. Their home life fascinated me. They were in their 30's when I met them.

Why is it that it's normal to call another woman in a relationship a sister-wife, but I've never heard the phrase "brother-husband?" Is there a more appropriate term? If there is, I haven't heard it.

Anyway, Nordic man, keep coming back. I'd love to hear your views, what you've learned, and maybe more about what you'd want in a relationship. If you are willing, that is.

Hugs!

 

[pipercatt]

Pipercatt,

What a great thread!!!!

And timely too....

I have been very interested in Polyamory for quite a while.

I have done some research and I am seriously considering starting a family.

Thank you for the post.

Hi there Ballmidere! Welcome to the thread. How is it timely?

Please, feel free to talk about your research and your wants, desires, and questions...

 

[pipercatt]

Morning room, Morning Pipercatt. I hope everyone is doing fine this morning?

Good Morning, Nm!

I am doing fine, if I could wipe the sleep from my eyes.

Coffee...I need coffee...

How are you?

 

[Nordic man]

Good Morning, Nm!

I am doing fine, if I could wipe the sleep from my eyes.

Coffee...I need coffee...

How are you?

I was up late last nite surfing the lit boards. but not doing too bad. I will have to go back to your other post to see what your questions were