Polyamory - Extending your family

[jewel_GR]

deleted

 

[vladimir]

Jam, honey...you've been busy lately. I hope others come around and answer your questions. The posts that you refer to are me talking about my frustrations in dealing with married men who's wives "would never go for it." Yeah, it's ok..you can call me a little bitter about the subject...

Now, now... No bitterness over what you cannot change. Some people have a need for attachments that will only work one on one. Some of us have more open hearts and minds and souls.

Jam, I'll get back to you on some of this, but I'm off to a friends tonight, and just don't have a lot of time at the moment... Tommorow ok?

Vladimir, I am honored that your first post was in this thread. I have gone back and read several times all that you wrote, and am processing the information. I am really tired, and need sleep, but what you say makes sense.

Lovely lady, sleep is one of the most important things in poly relationships. No one who is trying to spend adequate amounts of time with people ever has enough time for everything... I trust you got enough, and if not, that you will try to in the future.... Mom! "just leave me alone."

I haven't talked with hubby as much as I should about this new man, and some of the other's that have been in my life recently. This is because of a couple of past relationships that have gone sour on me hurt me, and he bore the brunt of my hurt and frustration, unfortunately. He is understandably concerned and protective of me. He doesnt want to see me hurt, and he doesn't want me making bad choices. It's hard for him to get excited with me when I start a new relationship, because he's thinking of how it could possibly end. That's definitely something I need to work on.

Well, if you will forgive the tone... Duh... He loves you. He, like me probably is very protective of those he loves. Hence his concern, and your reticence. You have to try to get past that and talk to him about your new friend, what you see in him, and how you want to bring him closer to your family. I trust my wife's judgement implicitly, but I still want to know what's going on, and with whom, and how it's shaping. Partly because that intensity is transferrable, and partly because it's my job to watch her back and offer advice when needed... That's the communication thing.

One thing you said that really strikes a chord with me. The possibility of introducing my new potential (even though I am trying not to think of him that way) to my hubby's otherlove. If things go well, waiting until our own NRE has calmed a bit. I am the type of person that would rush it, and introduce them beforehand.

Don't rush this, take your time... You're young, you got lots of years in which to do all the things your heart and mind desire... Be sure of your new relationship, and then maybe build one with your hubby and his love.

On the other hand, I might not. Hubby and his love are still in their own throes of NRE, in fact, it was a bit delayed, simply because I was involved in their relationship heavily in the beginning (platonically, though). They are now exploring their relationship without me, and I get the feelings of loss, the occasional jealousy, etc. So, I've been trying to wait it out, knowing and mostly secure in Hubby's love for me, and his love's friendship with me. They both do a great job of giving me reassurance when I need it and ask for it. Learning to ask for it was a tough lesson, though.

Spending a night alone is never fun, especially when you know your loved one is out having a good time. You need to do what I did, and just remember that they will be coming home because they also love you.
Never be afraid to ask for what you want... I have a couple of rules for life, and one of them is this. "If you don't ask, you don't get."

Vlad...you have given me lots to think about, and I appreciate it. I hope you come back soon, I really enjoyed your post!

Hugs!

Glad I could do at least that much... I'll be bach, you be here...

vladimir

 

[ARaynes]

You are probably right here. i want some "magical" something that will turn the monogamous person off and turn on someone who gets it. i've waited a very long time for someone i could believe in again and now when i find the one that moves earth and heaven for me, He needs others to make His world right, as well. i just get this inadequate feeling in the pit of my stomach and become fearful that He will run into someone that doesn't require "help" to give Him what He wants. So sue me...i am insecure .

I think to some extint we are all somewhat insecure, but I also think that as long as we have faith that the other loves us, then we have nothing to worry about. Not to say I don't worry. I do, don't get me wrong. I often wonder what if "he" loves her more than me. But I also know that he loves me and that is all that matters. Just as I love them, and that is all that matters. Love will get you far.

 

[pipercatt]

Thanks for the link piper...their maturity is impressive. i still get caught up with the whole "three's a crowd" thing, but i can see alot of consideration, compassion and hard work being put into this relationship. Master wants to check it out too.


Glad you liked it, and that your Master wants to look too. I've liked that site for a long time.


You are probably right here. i want some "magical" something that will turn the monogamous person off and turn on someone who gets it. i've waited a very long time for someone i could believe in again and now when i find the one that moves earth and heaven for me, He needs others to make His world right, as well. i just get this inadequate feeling in the pit of my stomach and become fearful that He will run into someone that doesn't require "help" to give Him what He wants. So sue me...i am insecure .

Well, hon..you have the battle partly won. You know you are insecure, and you admit that you want your problems to magically disappear. Knowing those two things, it should be relatively simple to stop the pattern and work towards your goal. Nothing good is every gotten without work and risk. You just have to take a chance instead of sitting back and watching life go by.

 

[Richard49]

What's stopping me is i found the man i want to be with. Poly is a part of Him, a part i am trying to understand and hope to find it as appealing as He does. But i haven't been able to get the perspective that another ISN'T a threat to me. i don't want to be excluded from that part of His life though, either. i'm not sure whether i am helping myself or not...but i don't really know how else to approach it.

Sounds like self esteem issues

 

[Richard49]

And thanks Richard for all the wonderful advice. I love coming here and reading what you and Piper have to say. Thanks so much.

Thank you for the compliment.
It is nice to know that what I say here is of value.

a dozen
for you

 

[Richard49]

Things are going well for me. My honey here is FINALLY back from his vacation, and we have had the opportunity to talk a lot about the possibility of his getting involved with his ex. As of right now that possibilty is still very remote. He is realizing that she needs space to grow on her own, without involvement. I think that is where we are going to leave it for now. He has agreed with me that if he wants to pursue a more emotional/romantic relationship with her that I will be involved as far as getting to know her better and she and I learning to be friends, but that is not going to happen soon. She is learning independence, and how to rely on herself for a change, instead of a man...and this is something she needs for herself....so that is where we are on that subject. I will probably be going to California to see my other sweetie in a couple of weeks. I am really looking forward to that trip as well.

It sounds like you two are communicating.
That is good

I still do not understand why he/you/her might even be considering starting a relationship with her beyond a freidnship.

IMHO you can not start a new realtionship, even with the same person, till there is clousure.

 

[pipercatt]

Lovely lady, sleep is one of the most important things in poly relationships. No one who is trying to spend adequate amounts of time with people ever has enough time for everything... I trust you got enough, and if not, that you will try to in the future.... Mom! "just leave me alone."

If I didn't get enough sleep that night, I certainly did last night. I was in bed and Zzzz'ing by 10. I love when my bouts of insomnia go into hibernation.

Well, if you will forgive the tone... Duh... He loves you. He, like me probably is very protective of those he loves. Hence his concern, and your reticence. You have to try to get past that and talk to him about your new friend, what you see in him, and how you want to bring him closer to your family. I trust my wife's judgement implicitly, but I still want to know what's going on, and with whom, and how it's shaping. Partly because that intensity is transferrable, and partly because it's my job to watch her back and offer advice when needed... That's the communication thing.

Sigh...I know. It's just hard talking to a stone face, with no feedback whatsoever. However, I did bite the bullet last night, and talked to him. I started by saying that we weren't communicating of late, and when I try, I feel like I am talking at him, and he might be listening, but that I need him to show it, and communicate back. Thankfully, he was receptive, and we had a long conversation about my new friend, how I was feeling about it, my fears, and my hopes. He was kind, not stonefaced at all, and gave me some great feedback and support. It just goes to show you that when the players are all in the game, it works.

Spending a night alone is never fun, especially when you know your loved one is out having a good time. You need to do what I did, and just remember that they will be coming home because they also love you.
Never be afraid to ask for what you want... I have a couple of rules for life, and one of them is this. "If you don't ask, you don't get."

You are quite right on that one. I grew up very independent and poor. I learned at a very early age to never ask for anything, including love. That was and is the most valuable lesson I ever had to learn, and I have to keep learning it every day. That and learning to accept that I can be loved.

Thank you again, Vlad...you are a most welcome addition to this thread.

 

[pipercatt]

Hi all! It is so good to see this thread taking off again!

Good luck to Pipercatt. Don't you just love the anticipation of meeting him for the first time? I hope you have a wonderful meeting.

(snip for brevity)

And thanks Richard for all the wonderful advice. I love coming here and reading what you and Piper have to say. Thanks so much.

Things are going well for me. My honey here is FINALLY back from his vacation, and we have had the opportunity to talk a lot about the possibility of his getting involved with his ex. As of right now that possibilty is still very remote. He is realizing that she needs space to grow on her own, without involvement. I think that is where we are going to leave it for now. He has agreed with me that if he wants to pursue a more emotional/romantic relationship with her that I will be involved as far as getting to know her better and she and I learning to be friends, but that is not going to happen soon. She is learning independence, and how to rely on herself for a change, instead of a man...and this is something she needs for herself....so that is where we are on that subject. I will probably be going to California to see my other sweetie in a couple of weeks. I am really looking forward to that trip as well.

Raina, doll-face!!!!! I saw you playing with red_rose and manxy over on the GB, how fun!! Rose is such a cool chica...

I am glad your honey is back from his trip! Doncha just love those "I MISSED YOU!!!" Kisses?? Sounds like things are going well for you, and i am pleased to see that he's taking it slow with his ex. And I am very glad she is learning independence. I have too much of it myself, but I always recommend having some.

And you are going to see your other love!! YAY! I know that you are as excited about that as I am about going to see my new friend in Boston. We will have to get together and compare notes about our respective trips! *wiggling eyebrows*

Take care, Luv...and come back here often!!!

 

[pipercatt]

Yes, folks, as you can see...I am working backwards today...

Actually 3somes and 5 or more work much better as a rule than 4somes do. However in the poly wolrd it is what works for U in sharing and expanding love.

Richard, as always, your advice is well taken. I appreciate you coming here and sharing your experiences.

But I do have a question for you. Why is an odd number of people in a group situation considered better? When Hubby and I were talking about long range plans, we felt that adding 2 more people to our group, for a total of 4 would be optimal. And it might be for us, but I am curious as your reasoning, or insight into saying that 3 or 5 is optimal.

 

[pipercatt]

I think to some extint we are all somewhat insecure, but I also think that as long as we have faith that the other loves us, then we have nothing to worry about. Not to say I don't worry. I do, don't get me wrong. I often wonder what if "he" loves her more than me. But I also know that he loves me and that is all that matters. Just as I love them, and that is all that matters. Love will get you far.

Very, very true, ARaynes. And thank you for expressing it so well! I worry, too, on occasion, and not just when he's with her. I have had the occasional thought when he and I are spending time together, "Would he rather be with her than me right now?" I just learned to look at it differently. He might miss her, and if you love someone, sure you want to be with them. But that doesn't mean that he doesn't want to be with me. I know he loves me as well. So I look at it for what it is, a bout of insecurity, and deal with it as I need to. Ask for a hug, or some other kind of reassurance, and then trust in the love that we've built up in each other. It makes me feel good that I can do that. And me feeling good transfers on to him, because he can see that I'm happy.

 

[Richard49]

Yes, folks, as you can see...I am working backwards today...



Richard, as always, your advice is well taken. I appreciate you coming here and sharing your experiences.

But I do have a question for you. Why is an odd number of people in a group situation considered better? When Hubby and I were talking about long range plans, we felt that adding 2 more people to our group, for a total of 4 would be optimal. And it might be for us, but I am curious as your reasoning, or insight into saying that 3 or 5 is optimal.

Thank you for the compliment.

It is not an odd number it is that 4 people usually do not work.
Why does 4 people not work well?

This is going to seem unreal but trying to find 4 people that like each other and get along is "DIFFICULT" compared to finding 3,5,6 etc.

Also when U get to 3 people you than have to come up with a method of how you are going to "approve" a new addition.

 

[jewel_GR]

deleted

 

[Richard49]

Ask for a hug, or some other kind of reassurance, and then trust in the love that we've built up in each other. It makes me feel good that I can do that. And me feeling good transfers on to him, because he can see that I'm happy.

Piper you hit a good point here.
"Ask for assurance"

However this presupposes you know what will assure you

 

[Richard49]

Putting a label on it doesn't make it any less real or less painful...nor does it "fix" the problem. i've been in an "open" marriage before, only i was the last one to find out it was open, so, yes...i have esteem issues. i don't think i have denied that. i also have a block to the belief that everything will be peachy-keen because there is another person who wants to draw off of the man i love. How is He going to keep up with two people who need Him when its hard to keep up with me?

If you found out after the fact that the marrage was open than it was not open .... it was cheating !!!!!!

In respect to fixing the low self esteem ..... journal .... every single day .... this will help you find the core beliefs and how to change them that add to your low self esteem.

Herrings Law of Healing says "we heal from the top down and inside out". This means we must start healing with changing the mind. That means changing core beliefs.

Now the issue of how does a man take care of two high maintence women...... well some of us are sicker than others .... ooops ..... did I say that?

I posted here before that poly only works when the members of the same sex are bi. Some of the reason for this is that they reduce the maintence requirments of the odd sex person.

However as I have read your posts .... I am not sure that you or the others are self sufficent enough to enter a poly relationship .... but who am I to judge.

 

[jewel_GR]

deleted

 

[Richard49]

Yes...thank you Richard...if i was self-sufficient, i wouldn't strive to be His slave because i would be complete in myself. However, i'm not complete without Him. i need Him to need me as much as i need His support and love.

These are 2 seperate issues.......

Can a sub/slave truly give herself if she does not own herself first?

To own oneself presupposes that one is self sufficent.

We do not enter into the BDSM D/s community because we are not complete within ourselves. We enter it because part of who we are is submissive or dominate.

 

[jewel_GR]

deleted

 

[pipercatt]

Putting a label on it doesn't make it any less real or less painful...nor does it "fix" the problem. i've been in an "open" marriage before, only i was the last one to find out it was open, so, yes...i have esteem issues. i don't think i have denied that. i also have a block to the belief that everything will be peachy-keen because there is another person who wants to draw off of the man i love. How is He going to keep up with two people who need Him when its hard to keep up with me?

Doesn't sound like you were in an open marriage, hon. It sounds like you were in a non-fidelitous (is that even a word? Well, it sounds better than being cheated on) marriage. There's a big difference.

No one is saying you are denying having esteem issues. What we are saying is that knowing you have them is one thing, sitting back and expecting them to go away without work is quite another.

Another thing I've noticed is that you seem to be expecting a long distance relationship to cover all your needs. If your love didn't have poly in his life, would he be meeting all your needs? If the answer is yes, then great! But I think you need to ascertain whether or not it's the distance you are from him, or the fact that he's with another, or possibly both, that is causing some of your insecurities. And deal with them as they need to be dealt with. Don't lump your unhappiness into one area, especially if it might be invalid.

 

[pipercatt]

Thank you for the compliment.

It is not an odd number it is that 4 people usually do not work.
Why does 4 people not work well?

This is going to seem unreal but trying to find 4 people that like each other and get along is "DIFFICULT" compared to finding 3,5,6 etc.

Also when U get to 3 people you than have to come up with a method of how you are going to "approve" a new addition.

I know that 3 people in a group is much easier than 4, but why would 5 people be easier than 4 - is I guess what I am asking.

As far as the approval of new addition, I would guess that it would be worked out between the original couple, and by whatever rules they set.

For my situation, It would be very easy to welcome Hubby's other love into our home and our love permanently. That is because I know her, I love her (even if it is platonically, and will remain so), and so does hubby (obviously).

I know that finding and adding a 4th would be doubly hard, because we'd have to find someone that all 3 of us got a long with.

 

[pipercatt]

Piper you hit a good point here.
"Ask for assurance"

However this presupposes you know what will assure you

yes, of course. That's part of the discovery of yourself, isn't it? Why ask him to hug me, if I know a hug isn't going to reassure me. but if what you are asking is how do I know, or how did I find out what reassures me...well...trial and error.

I just don't let the errors overwhelm me, and try again.

 

[pipercatt]

I posted here before that poly only works when the members of the same sex are bi. Some of the reason for this is that they reduce the maintence requirments of the odd sex person.

Hey Richard, I am not questioning your beliefs, so please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't agree with this.

I am not bi. I have a few curiousities, and will probably have a same sex relationship at some point in my life, but it's not a need for me.

Maybe it's just that the people in the poly group need to be self sufficient enough to find what they need, whether it means having an open group, as opposed to a poly-fidelitous group, if the participants aren't Bi.

I can honestly say that I can give and receive love from Hubby's girlfriend. It's not of a sexual nature, but we love each other, and share him. However, we are both strong minded and strong willed women.

I am interested in your thoughts on this.

 

[toysrfun]

Hi Pipercatt,

I have been following this thread for awhile now. Thank you for sharing so many of your thoughts on this subject. I am a long distance participant in a poly relationship right now. The hardest part is being physically separated. Phone sex may be a great option when you are horny but so far I haven't found a way to give myself a kiss and a hug. It is too bad that more people don't open up to the possibilities of a poly relationship. It is very difficult for one person to satisfy every need of another person and it is often those unfulfilled desires and needs that lead to affairs and breakups.

I had a 4 year relationship with a business colleague a few years back. Because we worked and travelled together, she actually spent more time with me than with her spouse. At the time we were very much in love. Her husband was not very affectionate (although they had sex a lot!) and had an anger management problem. She went through periods of guilt about our relationship and told me right from the start that she had no intention of leaving him for me. I used to tell her that her relationship with me was what was keeping them together. She was able to get from me what he was not willing or able to give her. The downside for me was that we were not able to be together in public. I think the fear of discovery was one of the reasons that she finally broke off the relationship. We also stopped working together so it was easier that way as well.

Toys

 

[Raina]

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[Raina]

IMHO you can not start a new realtionship, even with the same person, till there is clousure.

That is soooo true! I may have to use this quote in our next discussion. Wow! Thanks.