Present Tense and story ratings

[Britva415]

I also kind of feel like if that is the presumption, then, such a 1p story couldn't be told in anything other than present tense. Yet it mostly isn't, even when the presumption isn't countered by a different framing. Thoughts?

 

[Britva415]

The notion of the reader "being" the 1p POV character somehow squicks me in a way that's somewhat similar to having 2p narrated at me.

 

[old_prof]

To me, I hope that I have helped you examine that presumption.

You certainly have helped me examine my own presumption of "nuh uh"

I still have no idea how I would explain that was the intent. But thank you. It has been a useful conversation for me at least. It might have bored the other 200 or so people on AH, but oh well.

 

[Britva415]

I still have no idea how I would explain that was the intent.

I get that, and I don't think that "explaining" is the answer at all.

I think it's more along the lines of, tell the story in such a way that it doesn't seem like the POV character is narrating a story. Can it be worded, voiced, energized in a way which feels to the reader more like "this is what's happening to me now?"

So many of these stories simply do not read like an internal stream of awareness or internal monolog, and that makes it hard to suspend disbelief about "being" the MC.

 

[old_prof]

I also kind of feel like if that is the presumption, then, such a 1p story couldn't be told in anything other than present tense. Yet it mostly isn't, even when the presumption isn't countered by a different framing. Thoughts?

I checked a half dozen for sale Romances earlier and every one was 1P present. It's not the rule here, but I think it is far more common among professional writers. (Also holds for YA, I think)

I find 1P past uncomfortable for exactly this reason. I expect 1P present or 3P past. And don't know what to make of 2P either. Even if @StillStunned wrote one that was good.

 

[Britva415]

Even if @StillStunned wrote one that was good.

He did, he did.

Honestly though - his was different from so many 2p stories. His DID read like "this is the experience of the MC." His DID read like the kind of 1p POV you were talking about, where the reader IS fully in the shoes, in the head, of the MC. Where it IS an internal monolog - which is not what most 2p stories conceit to be.

 

[Britva415]

I find 1P past uncomfortable for exactly this reason

What if it was framed effectively? What if the content of the story did provide answers to "who am I to them, how is/was this being told, how do I have access to this record/manuscript/verbal retelling?"

You asked me a couple weeks ago what I meant by "frame." It's some version of this. And it doesn't have to be spelled out, either: It can be suggested suggestively with suggestions. And to me that's better than there being no effort made, no thought considered, at all.

 

[YmaOHyd]

I checked a half dozen for sale Romances earlier and every one was 1P present. It's not the rule here, but I think it is far more common among professional writers. (Also holds for YA, I think)

I think that's a Hunger Games effect. After Hunger Games, lots of YA came out in 1P Present, which had previously been pretty rare compared to 1P Past. Lots of those readers are still basically reading adult-oriented-YA.

 

[old_prof]

I think that's a Hunger Games effect. After Hunger Games, lots of YA came out in 1P Present, which had previously been pretty rare compared to 1P Past. Lots of those readers are still basically reading adult-oriented-YA.

I think it's been true for Romances long before that. Not sure about YA. The category didn't exist as it does now when I fit the demographic. And I talked to my son about a lot of his books, but I didn't read many of them. And don't know I would have noticed then.

 

[PennameWombat]

A comment I got on a story was about not liking the present tense (I write a lot of first person present). This was for a competition, so my goal was to maximize the number of people who would get to the end of my story and feel it earned 5 stars. From that perspective, could present tense be holding me back when a few 5-star votes could mean the difference between placing and not placing?

(I'm not thinking of changing anything because of a comment, but at the same time it has me asking myself what the costs are of certain stylistic decisions)

I don't like present tense, and as to first person present tense... argh! But I'd never comment, nor rate. I'd simply "nope" out in the first paragraph, unless something about it absolutely grabbed me by the throat.

Or more likely I was a judge in a competition (not a Lit contest) where I was contractually obligated to force my way through every assigned story. In which case, I might make such a comment.

But the choices of POV and tense are always the author's. I strongly prefer third person limited or close, and past tense, but I will use first person past if I want the story to be That Character's job to do the telling.

 

[MelissaBaby]

While I doubt this was your intention, I can't help but read this as a strong argument against holding official contests in general.

If what they really do is encourage more of the same, unoriginal, formulaic tripe that is already flooding the site on a daily basis, then I don't see much value in them beyond the monetary one — which is only cashed in by the three people on top. They are great opportunities for more exposure, especially if you're an up-and-coming author, but it's hard to disagree they don't read allow for putting your best, original foot forward as you're trying to attract new readers.

I wish we had fewer of them, so that they don't suck out all the air of the room and suffocate the really interesting events, ie, author challenges.

I was specifically giving advice in regards to winning. If you are only entering the contest for exposure, and you'd like to show some flare with an off the wall style or technique, go for it. But it will lower your chances to win.

If you submit "unoriginal tripe" you aren't likely to win a contest either.

I don't believe there is any formula for winning, and you don't even have to write a popular story to win. You need enough votes to qualify while maintaining a high score. I suppose "First, do no harm" would be a good motto.

I agree that there are too many contests. If I ran the show, it would be limited to four: Valentines Day, Summer Lovin', Halloween and Winter Holidays.

(I'd also bring back the annual awards.)

 

[Areala-chan]

Three out of my four highest-rated stories were all composed in first-person present tense. I'm not claiming to be a master or anything, but clearly there are enough readers who don't mind the tense and are not docking stars because it's the tool I chose to use to tell them.

Third-person past is, to me, the 'invisible' tense. The one you don't even notice you're reading most of the time. It's perfect, IMO, when the overall theme of the story is more important than the internal dynamics of the characters themselves.

First-person is for when your narrator kind of is the story: how they see the world and react to it is more important than the overall theme. In first-person, I write narrators who are walking disasters, emotional wrecks, and often blind to their own faults. Colleen in Crash Into Me suffers from PTSD, even though neither she nor any other character in the story points it out. Sasha in Dead Space: Kendra is an unreliable narrator, not because she's trying to deceive the reader, but because she's a hopeless optimist who lets her desires blind her to who the woman she's in love with actually is. Sarah in Chasing Cars is a broken wrecking ball of a mid-life crisis who refuses to admit there's anything wrong with herself until she hurts the woman she loves, and even then, rather than choosing to face her faults, she decides there's an easier (and dumber) way out.

I couldn't tell exactly the type of story I wanted to tell in each of those instances without resorting to first-person. I could have told the story, sure, but it wouldn't have come out right. At least, not to me. I assume their respective scores mean that the bulk of people who finished them agreed.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Third-person past is, to me, the 'invisible' tense. The one you don't even notice you're reading most of the time. It's perfect, IMO, when the overall theme of the story is more important than the internal dynamics of the characters themselves.

Agree this, absolutely. And when you go "limited" or "close" 3rd person past tense, I reckon you get the intimacy of first person, with the same intensity. It's become my pov of choice, most of the time.

 

[old_prof]

I don't like present tense, and as to first person present tense... argh! But I'd never comment, nor rate. I'd simply "nope" out in the first paragraph, unless something about it absolutely grabbed me by the throat.

Can you articulate any more about why it bothers you so much. You are certainly not alone, but I absolutely don't get it. I have to think about when I'm reading or I completely forget about perspective and tense. As long as the author has me immersed in the story, I don't care. And I really don't get people who do.

It's kind of like some of us can actually taste broccoli, and everyone else, with their defective genes, think it tastes good. There must be a 1P present gene that lets you see it's actually awful that I just can't perceive. I really want to understand why.

 

[TheLobster]

It's kind of like some of us can actually taste broccoli, and everyone else, with their defective genes, think it tastes good. There must be a 1P present gene that lets you see it's actually awful that I just can't perceive. I really want to understand why.

Oh, you’re right! Now that I think of it, 1P present does taste a little bit like soap…

 

[StillStunned]

And don't know what to make of 2P either. Even if @StillStunned wrote one that was good.

He did, he did.

Honestly though - his was different from so many 2p stories. His DID read like "this is the experience of the MC." His DID read like the kind of 1p POV you were talking about, where the reader IS fully in the shoes, in the head, of the MC. Where it IS an internal monolog - which is not what most 2p stories conceit to be.

Thank, guys!

Although I suspect you're actually referring to two different stories: Into The Night and You Know You Shouldn’t.

 

[old_prof]

Thank, guys!

Although I suspect you're actually referring to two different stories: Into The Night and You Know You Shouldn’t.

Show off. Doing it twice no less.

Pretty soon you're going to be doing a 5 course 2P. Laying on your back yelling next!

 

[StillStunned]

Show off. Doing it twice no less.

Pretty soon you're going to be doing a 5 course 2P. Laying on your back yelling next!

Well, there's this: Writing Exercise: You Can't Believe You're Going To Try This

 

[HyunnaPark]

Thanks everyone. I've decided to write all future contest entries in 2nd person future tense.

This has been helpful, especially seeing how many of you default to past tense with your writing, which I have not. I should think about that and make present tense earn its spot rather than being my default.

And I promise this is not obsessing about the ratings, this is just my way of seeing if there's something in my writing that might make sense to fine tune while this most recent contest is fresh in my mind.

 

[MillieDynamite]

When I lay out my outlines, I'm never quite sure how I will write them. First person, present or past, third person present or past, or a mix of first person past or present, from two or three people's points of view. The choices are formed just before I begin to write, and I've been known to start over when whatever I chose isn't working for me.

 

[knowhergne]

When I lay out my outlines, I'm never quite sure how I will write them. First person, present or past, third person present or past, or a mix of first person past or present, from two or three people's points of view. The choices are formed just before I begin to write, and I've been known to start over when whatever I chose isn't working for me.

I always seem to start with first person past and then decide how to tweak it from there. It always sucks when you get far into the story and then realize you have to change it so it works better

 

[MillieDynamite]

Yeah, changing your mind on tense or first or third mid stream is always a pain the ass.

I always seem to start with first person past and then decide how to tweak it from there. It always sucks when you get far into the story and then realize you have to change it so it works better

 

[knowhergne]

Yeah, changing your mind on tense or first or third mid stream is always a pain the ass.

It bums me out sooooo much lol. I have a few that are done but not published because I need to change them. Like your stuff btw!

 

[SimonDoom]

Thanks everyone. I've decided to write all future contest entries in 2nd person future tense.

This has been helpful, especially seeing how many of you default to past tense with your writing, which I have not. I should think about that and make present tense earn its spot rather than being my default.

And I promise this is not obsessing about the ratings, this is just my way of seeing if there's something in my writing that might make sense to fine tune while this most recent contest is fresh in my mind.

You will write all the rest of your stories in 2nd person future tense. You will not be sure why, but you will be a contrarian, and you will be fed up by the same-old same-old advice you will get from the Author's Hang Out, so you will be likely to say, "To hell with it."

 

[MillieDynamite]

Thanks, always good to hear.

It bums me out sooooo much lol. I have a few that are done but not published because I need to change them. Like your stuff btw!