Sarah Palin

[Guest]

Reduce concern, Sarahh. Remember, even if McCain wins he'll almost certainly have a Democratic congress, especially Senate to deal with and they are unlikely to approve another Scalia to the Court. That's what American government is all about, tension and compromise . . . usually. I never like to see both ends of Pennsylvania Ave in the same party.

I can't reduce concern, VM.

Those fuckers are elected for life.

Must remain vigilant.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I can't reduce concern, VM.

Those fuckers are elected for life.

Must remain vigilant.

Honey, that's an attitude I can identify with. Maybe not on all the issues, but the attitude? Here, take this musket!

 

[Guest]

Honey, that's an attitude I can identify with. Maybe not on all the issues, but the attitude? Here, take this musket!

Must watch out for our children.

And I don't need the musket.

I have other weapons.

 

[Stella_Omega]

A nice line but common, garden-variety political phrasing. I'm not faulting him, by the way, political phrasing is what politicians use. I'm just not inspired. Decent man as is his opponent. Still reserving judgement.

McCain is no longer a decent man. He isn't trustworthy, he isn't rational. And Obama's quality of decent is above and beyond anyone else's in the arena.

I'm putting coldeisel on ignore for the rest of the weekend. I've had enough of this subject -- talk to me about teh sexxy!

 

[Guest]

First...
It is my womb... so McCain and Palin can stay the fuck out of it
Second...
the phrase is not officially "Hail Sarah" as "Hail Mary" has been retired.
Third...
McCain has numerous health issues that are currently in remission or are simply not standing on the foreground currently.... which means if he is incapacitated that she will be president due to the 25th Amendment
Fourth...
I support Obama and Biden, I have since the beginning... I was GRAVELY disappointed in Senator Clinton
Fifth....
I worry about her dealing with FIVE children one of which was only born in April. I am not saying she does not have a right to her children but I do worry about her caring for them and for the office of VP
Sixth....
Separation of church and state AND their ideals is very important and tends to keep ohhhh I don't know everyone that ISN'T a christian from wanting to lynch ya
Seventh...
she lacks anything having to do with foreign policy, and walking in McCain's shadow is not going to give her the experience that she needs
Eighth....
I truly believe that McCain ONLY picked her AFTER he realized that Obama was not picking Hilary or a woman
Ninth...
it would just tickle me pink if people would crop a post they are talking about so that we dont have to try and find what the person was saying
Tenth....
I cannot wait for the VP debates.. .I will sit back with popped corn and just hollow with laughter

 

[Edward Teach]

With her sexy mouth and big ears, I think President Bill Clinton will be happy to serve as Palin's chief of staff providing all the experience she needs should anything happen to McCain and Palin becomes POTUS.

 

[Pure]

unfortunately,

not true

They like that she favors lowering property and other taxes, and that she's not part of what they (correctly) believe to be a self-serving, inbred political establishment - whichever party is in control. You better believe that will carry over outside Alaska.

she raised taxes on oil companies and distributed the returns as subsidies to home owners for their heating expenses. this was the ACES act, 'Alaska Clear and Equitable Shares'.

http://conservativepolitics.today.com/2008/08/30/my-problem-with-palin/

[exceprt in the VP thread]


rox has NO evidence whatsoever that Palin is a "small gov't AND lower taxes" type of conservative.

 

[Belegon]

Still researching the whole choice...

My opinion at this point is that it was a desperation move by McCain...which doesn't mean it won't work. They do work sometimes.

Now, most of you won't know this, but I am surrounded by people who voted for Bush. My family, at least, if not my friends.

My mother, my father and my grandmother have all said variations on a theme to me... and all surprised me by saying it.

They ALL voted for Bush and they ALL said that Palin was an interesting choice but wouldn't change them from voting for Obama.

Out of those three, 10 days ago I would have said that my mom was undecided and my dad and sole remaining grandparent were going republican again.

Does it mean anything on a national scale? Probably not. But I do find it very interesting.

Is it actually possible that the national media are underestimating how pissed off most Americans are at the repugs?

 

[Edward Teach]

It may be, but it's certain that 80 percent of the population does not share all those social conservative positions that have lefties here excited - things like willingness to allow intelligent design to be taught alongside evolution in schools, opposition to gay marriage, and to abortion. The fact that she has an 80 percent approval rating demonstrates that for all that they get the 20 percent on either end of the political spectrum excited, those in the middle care more about other issues and/or characteristics. That will carry to the rest of the nation.

Rox, I've read this several times and I still don't understand what you are trying to say.

I don't think 80% share any position other than maybe that Bush is doing a lousy job. As for the rest of it, I can't figure out what you are trying to say.

 

[freshface]

Fifth....
I worry about her dealing with FIVE children one of which was only born in April. I am not saying she does not have a right to her children but I do worry about her caring for them and for the office of VP

Some merit in your other points, but this one? You're really going to argue that because she has children she can't figure out how to care for them and be VP. Are you worried that Obama won't be able to care for his children and be President? Does having children disqualify you from office or is it being a woman with children that disqualifies you? She's managing to be governor with her brood, she managed to get through the pregnancy and birth without falling down on the job, it's not like the average VP has a time intensive schedule.

I don't like her or her policies, but please don't suggest that a woman can't do a job because she has children.

 

[Belegon]

This is cheap and kind of sad... but it is a little funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qUVQDmLf7s

 

[Edward Teach]

This is cheap and kind of sad... but it is a little funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qUVQDmLf7s

Too funny.

What the hell WAS he looking at?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

It seems to me that the left is set to lose the election for Bambi.

Every time the Left harpoons Palin as inexperienced they illuminate Obama's inexperience. To date Bambi has written 2 books about himself, given a couple of speeches, and served one term in the Senate. Big Deal.

The election is between Bambi and Captain Queeg.

 

[Guest]

Too funny.

What the hell WAS he looking at?

Laughing - Oh, I feel so cheap and tawdry but I sure needed that laugh this morning!

I think he was looking at the speech in front of her? Maybe? I think he was checking for his lines.

I have noticed that when he originally introduced her he looked down at his own paperwork, as if to make certain he got her name right.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Rox, I've read this several times and I still don't understand what you are trying to say.

I don't think 80% share any position other than maybe that Bush is doing a lousy job. As for the rest of it, I can't figure out what you are trying to say.

Sorry ET, unclear writing by me. Here's a translation:

-Gov. Palin has an 80 percent approval rating.
-It's likely that many who make up that 80 percent do not agree with her social conservative views on abortion, not prohibiting intelligent design from being taught alongside evolution, and opposing gay marriage.
-Therefore, it must be for other reasons that those particular approvers are doing their approving.

My conclusion: The social issues that get 20 percent on the far right excited, and 20 percent on the far left excited, do not excite the 60 percent in between. In the parlance of political scientists, they are "low salience" issues.

So Palin has a formula that gives her the 20 percent on the far right, plus the 60 percent in the middle.

The remaining 20 percent who don't approve of her - the far left - are the ones who get excited in a negative way about the social issues that dominate this thread - note that taxes, spending and self-serving political establishments have not been discussed in this thread. That 20 percent are the Moveon.org crowd whose mass email about Palin was posted by Stella. Outside Alaska they are more than 20 percent, but except for a few places (including AH) not that much more. (Same with the hard right - not more than 20 percent in most places.)

My further conclusion is that the thing that makes her popular with the broad middle is the combination of her limited-government advocacy of reduced spending and taxes, and her not being part of the self-serving, inbred political establishment that people hate and believe is taking them for a ride.

My further conclusion is that this has the hard left discombobulated, because they don't get the "low salience" thing, and so can't understand why lots of people in the middle who may agree with them on abortion, ID in schools and gay marriage nevertheless are favorably disposed toward a political figure on the other side of those issues. It's because they agree with her on issues that have higher salience with them. They care more about property taxes than abortion, and sticking it to the polical class more than gay marriage.

 

[Pure]

dear rox

you said,

the thing that makes her popular with the broad middle is the combination of her limited-government advocacy of reduced spending and taxes

do you have a shread of evidence that this is true? post it please.

we know she "raised" taxes against oil companies.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

you said,

the thing that makes her popular with the broad middle is the combination of her limited-government advocacy of reduced spending and taxes

do you have a shread of evidence that this is true? post it please.

we know she "raised" taxes against oil companies.

Are you saying she's popular because she's promised to raise taxes and spending? I don't think so. Alaska has a unique and wierd revenue structutre, and she's only been gov for two years, but there are these:
A cut in an annual business license fee from $100 to $25 (the legislature went half way to $50).
A one-year suspension of the state fuel tax to save taxpayers about $40 million.
A repeal of tire taxes to save taxpayers $2 million.

 

[Pure]

Palin on Ballot Measure 4

Palin, as governor, called for the defeat of this measure.

http://juneauempire.com/stories/082208/opi_321835314.shtml

[start article with some deletions]
Empire editorial: Yes on Measure 4 for aquatic gold
Juneau Empire

As Alaskans consider Ballot Measure 4 on Tuesday, they must look to the future and think about gold.

Not the gold that would be removed from Pebble Mine by foreign corporations, Anglo American and Northern Dynasty Minerals, for outsiders' profit, but the aquatic gold found in the precious salmon-rearing watershed of Bristol Bay, the thousands of fishing-related jobs, and the $250 million fishing industry that feeds Alaskans and their families.

Ballot Measure 4 would prohibit mines in excess of 640 acres from releasing toxic pollutants into water in a way that could adversely affect salmon or human health. It also would not allow the operations to store mining wastes that could release toxic pollutants into water.

Measure 4, in its simplest form, is about clean water, an issue with which few can argue. Its purpose is to limit the discharge of toxic pollutants, such as the deadly cyanide that would be produced by this massive open pit mine. The Pebble Mine, as proposed, would become the largest open pit mine in the Western Hemisphere.
Proponents of the ballot measure, such as Citizens for Clean Water, have been clear that a primary purpose of the initiative is to stop Pebble Mine.

As one of the world's largest gold- and copper-extracting operations of its kind, Pebble Mine poses numerous unacceptable risks to the pristine region of Bristol Bay and statewide interests around it. Chief among concerns is that Pebble Mine would operate in an earthquake zone, which could lead to a devastating environmental catastrophe.


And with huge foreign corporations owning and operating Pebble, how, in the event of mishaps, could the state of Alaska ever hold them accountable? We could end up footing the bill for what could be the biggest environmental cleanup project in the nation's history, and that could easily cost billions. Given the poor record of the largest global mining operations, Alaskans must know the potential risks are enormous.
[...]
Opponents claim Measure 4 is a deceitful effort to derail large-scale mining throughout the state. Groups such as Alaskans Against the Mining Shutdown argue the ballot measure would cast a cloud of uncertainty over regulations of mines that are vitally important to the state. They also argue the measure would shut down the state's existing mines and would prevent any expansion of existing mines. That just isn't true, as the state's Supreme Court has recently ruled.
[]...]

Some people ask, "Why do we need Measure 4 now? Hasn't the state always had adequate protection for its salmon?" The answer is, Alaska HAD strict salmon protection prior to the Murkowski administration. Gov. Frank Murkowski, however, made several changes by "executive order" that left Alaska salmon vulnerable to toxic mining discharge.

Ballot Measure 4 returns Alaska to a standard of salmon protection that had existed since statehood and under which all current mines were permitted.

The state of Alaska must not sell out the most precious of its natural resources and its residents for the sake of foreign profits. [...]

Demanding clean water is the right thing for all of Alaska to do, and now is the time to do it. Vote yes on Ballot Measure 4. [end article]

 

[pellso27]

She is fuckable so it would be a first. A fuckable VP! Ah the news will be much more fun to watch!

 

[Pure]

rox's evidence

rox the thing that makes her popular with the broad middle is the combination of her limited-government advocacy of reduced spending and taxes

pure do you have a shread of evidence that this is true? post it please.

we know she "raised" taxes against oil companies.

roxAre you saying she's popular because she's promised to raise taxes and spending? I don't think so. Alaska has a unique and wierd revenue structutre, and she's only been gov for two years, but there are these:

A cut in an annual business license fee from $100 to $25 (the legislature went half way to $50).

A one-year suspension of the state fuel tax to save taxpayers about $40 million.

A repeal of tire taxes to save taxpayers $2 million.
---

pure: what is your source, rox?

the above list, even if true, is laughable if intended to show she generally wants to reduce taxes [total state income from taxes] and have a smaller gov't.

these look like minor populist measures with little impact on the state's income from taxes. and we know she RAISED taxes on oil companies. though i don't have the numbers, i suspect that Alaska states' total tax revenue have increased under Palin.

rox has NO evidence of Palin shrinking the size of government; one way that's easily accomplished is to lay off gov't employees, close offices, departments and bureaus, downsize existing entities. to seriously reduce gov't expenditures would be another obvious way to limit gov't. yet we know she had the gov't hand out over a thousand dollars per family, of oil tax revenue, to help their heating costs. even conservatives have noted that while CULTURALLY a conservative, she spends like a liberal.

do you have ANY evidence that shrinking measures have been undertaken?

 

[DG Hear]

Where is all the shreads of evidence where Obama is so great. Not the stump speeches and rhedoric he talks, but the evidence on how he's going to help America first. I know the negatives and I don't like it. I have yet to see the good things he has done.

I saw where he took the American Flag off his Planes tail wing. I didn't like it
We all know he doesn't wear a flag lapel pin. Didn't want to upset who?
Puts hand on heart sometimes when saying the pledge of alligence. He said so himself. Why not all the time?

To me these are not small things if you want to be the leader of our country. I believe if any American should show patriotism, it should be our President and Congress and house of Reps.

To some of you this doesn't mean shit. To me it means alot and I hope it does to others who want a President who is proud of our country and our flag.

Enough said. back to the humor thread.

 

[trysail]

Interesting. I don't subscribe to it— but it's nonetheless interesting. Before y'all start heaving brickbats and rotten fruit at me, remember: I don't subscribe to it— I do find it interesting.

There are parts of the piece that are accurate; other parts are clearly not. I'll let you figure that out for yourself (you are, after all, sentient adults and you are going to have to deal with a gargantuan barrage of noise in the next two months).
________________________
Written by Dr. Jack Wheeler

The O-man, Barack Hussein Obama, is an eloquently
tailored empty suit. No résumé, no accomplishments,
no experience, no original ideas, no understanding of
how the economy works, no understanding of how the
world works, nothing but abstract empty rhetoric
devoid of real substance.

He has no real identity. He is half-white, which he
rejects. The rest of him is mostly Arab, which he
hides but is disclosed by his non-African Arabic
surname and his Arabic first and middle names as a way
to triply proclaim his Arabic parentage to people in
Kenya . Only a small part of him is African Black from
his Luo grandmother, which he pretends he is
exclusively.

What he isn't, not a genetic drop of, is
'African-American,' the descendant of enslaved
Africans brought to America chained in slave ships.
He hasn't a single ancestor who was a slave. Instead,
his Arab ancestors were slave owners. Slave-trading
was the main Arab business in East Africa for
centuries until the British ended it.

Let that sink in: Obama is not the descendant of
slaves, he is the descendant of slave owners. Thus he
makes the perfect Liberal Messiah.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

ROXANNE is correct. Right now no one gives a crap about Leftie issues. Ralph Nader will get the hardcore lefties, anyway.

McCain stuck it in Bambi's ass by picking Palin. Obama's speech is totally old news.

 

[epiphany65]

Interesting. I don't subscribe to it— but it's nonetheless interesting. Before y'all start heaving brickbats and rotten fruit at me, remember: I don't subscribe to it— I do find it interesting.

There are parts of the piece that are accurate; other parts are clearly not. I'll let you figure that out for yourself (you are, after all, sentient adults and you are going to have to deal with a gargantuan barrage of noise in the next two months).
________________________
Written by Dr. Jack Wheeler

The O-man, Barack Hussein Obama, is an eloquently
tailored empty suit. No résumé, no accomplishments,
no experience, no original ideas, no understanding of
how the economy works, no understanding of how the
world works, nothing but abstract empty rhetoric
devoid of real substance.

He has no real identity. He is half-white, which he
rejects. The rest of him is mostly Arab, which he
hides but is disclosed by his non-African Arabic
surname and his Arabic first and middle names as a way
to triply proclaim his Arabic parentage to people in
Kenya . Only a small part of him is African Black from
his Luo grandmother, which he pretends he is
exclusively.

What he isn't, not a genetic drop of, is
'African-American,' the descendant of enslaved
Africans brought to America chained in slave ships.
He hasn't a single ancestor who was a slave. Instead,
his Arab ancestors were slave owners. Slave-trading
was the main Arab business in East Africa for
centuries until the British ended it.

Let that sink in: Obama is not the descendant of
slaves, he is the descendant of slave owners. Thus he
makes the perfect Liberal Messiah.

Dr. Wheeler sounds like just another racist who's not especially sane. According to Snopes.com also accused McCain of collaborating with the Viet Cong when he was a POW in exchange for an apartment in Hanoi and 2 hookers.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/wheeler.asp

 

[amicus]

JBJ got it right...as he often does, but his sledgehammer method oftimes is not appreciated, let me use a balpine and stiletto and open the wound for all to see.

After than a year of being totally media inundated by the Clinton campaign and the rahrah attitude about the first woman President, the Democrats turned her out in stark fashion, to the utter surprise of many.

The Dems could have chosen her by acclamation at the Convention, regardless of the Primaries and delegates, but for some reason, you figure it out, she was rejected.

Although most thinking people always hope an election will be about issues, it seldom, if ever is, and becomes a matter of perception by the electorate.

What the feminine portion of the electorate will take away from this is that the Dems gave lip service to a woman in the White House, all pro forma, for appearances sake, and then dumped her on the sidelines...again, choose the reason that satisfies you.

The monumental coup of McCain choosing a woman, is staggering in opposition to the great fuss made by the Dems, who had all the rhetoric, but none of the action.

How it will play out, I have no idea.

Personally, anything that keeps the left of out power...works for me.

But if the Republicans are successful of placing the first women in the White House, that will forever change the complexion of politics and the Democrats will forever suffer for it.

I do so love politics...

Amicus...