Sexless Marriage

[Eilan]

Remember that we're only getting one side of the story. I feel like I've said that before. Wonder why?

I know anecdotal evidence does not an argument make, but if my father were to join Lit and start a thread about not getting sex from my mother, he'd come across as a fairly likable guy, a charismatic jokester. What he wouldn't tell you, however, is that one reason why my mom didn't want to put out was because she was getting the shit beat out of her on a regular basis. And when she wasn't getting the shit beat out of her, she was being told what a fat, ugly, and stupid cheating whore she was. Who would be inclined to feel sexual (or nonsexual, for that matter) attraction/affection toward someone who treated them that way?

It seems to me in threads like this that the "wronged" partner (IOW, the partner who ain't getting any) always manages to portray himself or herself in the best possible light. That's understandable, but it's not exactly fair to the partner who isn't a Lit member and therefore can't answer the allegations leveled against him/her. If we could get the spouse's POV, we'd get a different version of events. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

And before you say that I haven't been there--well, I have. Yeah, I made mistakes in my first marriage. But my ex wasn't blameless, either. And neither are the "frustrated" guys posting in this thread, no matter how much they'd like for everyone to believe otherwise. There's plenty of blame to go around if you want to play that game.

I'm done here. That's my two cents, and like everything else in this thread, it's worth what you paid for it.

 

[LadyAria]

I'm with 3113. I think the most common answer is:

"The man may not try to pleasure her. It might be old faithful, he ruts and gets off and leaves her unfulfilled. Alternately, and frankly, the husband may not be a good lover, but the wife doesn't want to tell him that. So sex is boring and unsatisfying and she'd rather be reading."

Most wives I met who no longer put out because their husbands are "two pumps and a dump" lovers.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Remember that we're only getting one side of the story. I feel like I've said that before. Wonder why?

I know anecdotal evidence does not an argument make, but if my father were to join Lit and start a thread about not getting sex from my mother, he'd come across as a fairly likable guy, a charismatic jokester. What he wouldn't tell you, however, is that one reason why my mom didn't want to put out was because she was getting the shit beat out of her on a regular basis. And when she wasn't getting the shit beat out of her, she was being told what a fat, ugly, and stupid cheating whore she was. Who would be inclined to feel sexual (or nonsexual, for that matter) attraction/affection toward someone who treated them that way?

It seems to me in threads like this that the "wronged" partner (IOW, the partner who ain't getting any) always manages to portray himself or herself in the best possible light. That's understandable, but it's not exactly fair to the partner who isn't a Lit member and therefore can't answer the allegations leveled against him/her. If we could get the spouse's POV, we'd get a different version of events. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

And before you say that I haven't been there--well, I have. Yeah, I made mistakes in my first marriage. But my ex wasn't blameless, either. And neither are the "frustrated" guys posting in this thread, no matter how much they'd like for everyone to believe otherwise. There's plenty of blame to go around if you want to play that game.

I'm done here. That's my two cents, and like everything else in this thread, it's worth what you paid for it.

But would you say that if it was a husband who wasn't putting out? That's been my point. A double standard about husbands vs. wives not putting out. Somehow, it always comes out as the hubby's fault. Or so it seems to me. A double standard. And rather unjust.

 

[SweetErika]

But would you say that if it was a husband who wasn't putting out? That's been my point. A double standard about husbands vs. wives not putting out. Somehow, it always comes out as the hubby's fault. Or so it seems to me. A double standard. And rather unjust.

I'm not speaking for Eilan, but I agree with her and would say the same if it was a husband who wasn't putting out. In fact, many of us have said, "This is only based on your side of the story, and we can't give accurate advice without hearing his version, thoughts and feelings," when situations like this (or any problems, really) have come up before.

Unless there are glaring problems with the complaintant, they usually get empathy and support based on their portrayal of the situation whether they're male or female. Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like Viosh, Footlongish and NverGettinOld have received a lot of that in this thread; sure, there were questions and suggestions regarding their actions and what might encourage their wives, but I certainly don't see it coming out as their fault. In the majority of responses here in HT, the partner who's refusing intimacy/communication/problem-solving/sex etc. usually gets the blame when we only hear the unhappy partner's side, and that holds true regardless of gender (it'd be the same with a FF or MM couple).

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I'm not speaking for Eilan, but I agree with her and would say the same if it was a husband who wasn't putting out. In fact, many of us have said, "This is only based on your side of the story, and we can't give accurate advice without hearing his version, thoughts and feelings," when situations like this (or any problems, really) have come up before.

Unless there are glaring problems with the complaintant, they usually get empathy and support based on their portrayal of the situation whether they're male or female. Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like Viosh, Footlongish and NverGettinOld have received a lot of that in this thread; sure, there were questions and suggestions regarding their actions and what might encourage their wives, but I certainly don't see it coming out as their fault. In the majority of responses here in HT, the partner who's refusing intimacy/communication/problem-solving/sex etc. usually gets the blame when we only hear the unhappy partner's side, and that holds true regardless of gender (it'd be the same with a FF or MM couple).

I hope so. I personally don't approve of using sex as a weapon, but I know that others deem it okay for some reason. I would like to think that at least you guys here are even-handed on the issue, whether you approve of it or not.

 

[footlongish]

For the record, I'm not beating my wife. I'm pretty darn gentle with her too.

I find the whole "your wife isn't intimate, you must be doing something wrong" line of reasoning to be hilarious. Yeah, that is it. Can the man do anyting right in a relationship ? I'm beginning to see the stereotypes being argued about in the side thread.

Fortunately, some of us have good listening and relationship skills.

Its just time for me to pack my bags and get the hell out.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

For the record, I'm not beating my wife. I'm pretty darn gentle with her too.

I find the whole "your wife isn't intimate, you must be doing something wrong" line of reasoning to be hilarious. Yeah, that is it. Can the man do anyting right in a relationship ? I'm beginning to see the stereotypes being argued about in the side thread.

Fortunately, some of us have good listening and relationship skills.

Its just time for me to pack my bags and get the hell out.

Well, given that she started out refusing you, I find it hard to believe that it is your fault, either. Sounds like a case of better late than never. I hate to advocate divorce, but frankly I don't see how both of you can be reasonably happy in your marriage, how compromise can happen if only one party is willing to give ground, and so therefore I agree that you should cut your losses. When the only way that one spouse can be happy is for the other to be miserable, then it's time to call it quits. That's the essence of "irreconcilable differences", right?

 

[lotsoflove]

Getting nowhere

I've read this whole thread, as I am in a similar situation - sexless marriage - and I have got nothing out of all the postings. Not that they are wrong, it's just the same arguments are thrown back and forth... nothing new, but maybe that's too much to expect, the topic being as old as human relationships.

Whatever the reasons, it is not a healthy situation to be in. I am at the stage when, every time I get horny or think about sex, I get mad, because I know I'll get nowhere and my frustration level goes higher. How long can I keep that? I don't know. I haven't looked outside yet, but I think it's the only valid alternative, even though it comes with a log list of other problems. Do I stll love her? Yes. Do I want to end our marriage? No, I don't. So, the only possible solution, as I see it, is to get it discreetly on the side.

Let's hear your arguments!

 

[footlongish]

I thought about having an affair. And its just not me. I don't just want sex with a woman, I want the whole meal deal. Maybe one could satisfy some urges on the side, but I'd still be mad I couldn't be intimate with my spouse.

This isn't just about sex. Its really about love. Sex is a part of love. I'm giving and I'm not getting back. It hurts.

Its time to find a relationship that works, all of it.

 

[bouncingbetty]

how old is ur wife? if she is ur age, then she ain't going through menapause yet. it may be medical condition, and there is a hormone replacement therapy that increase the sex drive. she probably is telling the doc she doesn't want it. make sure ur doing ur part, lose some weight if need be, be supportive and help around house if she works. buy urselves some toys, i know i luv them. doesn't have to be a big dildo, a rabbit or a vibrating silver bullet is not threatening and is wonderful when used correctly.

Been married 18 years, and I'm lucky if we have sex once in two months.

Same old story: she was hot for sex when we were first married, but it slowly trailed off over the years. I am so sick and tired of having to beg for sex from my own wife; it's actually pathetic. I've given up.

So, here I sit on Lit and other internet sites getting my sexual satisfaction and connnection, as it ain't gonna come from the wife. She could care less. I'm 45 next month and I'm not dead yet. Sure, I've slowed down some in the sexual department, but the desire is still there. Fuck, the wife has hardly any desire at all. She is going through menopause, so that really "monkey-wrenches" the sex life, too. It's a fuckin' shame, as I still find my wife attractive and sexy. She has great tits and I love to eat her pussy. But, she has no desire.

Good thing my right hand still is my best buddy, cause I ain't gettin' it anywhere else!! I wish I could simply give her a "magic pill" and she'd be back to having interest in sex. Whenever I want sex from her, all she does is mess with my mind and lay guilt trips on me like I was a fuckin' pervert for just wanting sex with my own wife. Shit!!! I've gotten over the pain and the rejection, and now have come to accept that sex is in the trash bin for us. Too bad, as we used to have lots of fun.

Oh, all the stuff about being nice to her, complimenting her, buying her stuff, giving her love and attention, blah, blah, blah... has done absolutely zilch!! She just ain't interested.

So, here I am....

My How To question ........ are there any other 'sufferers' out there and how do you live with it?

 

[bouncingbetty]

For the record, I'm not beating my wife. I'm pretty darn gentle with her too.

I find the whole "your wife isn't intimate, you must be doing something wrong" line of reasoning to be hilarious. Yeah, that is it. Can the man do anyting right in a relationship ? I'm beginning to see the stereotypes being argued about in the side thread.

Fortunately, some of us have good listening and relationship skills.

Its just time for me to pack my bags and get the hell out.

have u told her this? sat down and had this discussion with her. may find out that's what she wants.

 

[lotsoflove]

Dialog? What's that?

have u told her this? sat down and had this discussion with her. may find out that's what she wants.

Bouncingbetty, that picture of yours is gorgeous, but it doesn't do much for us guys running dry...

 

[NevrGettinOld]

surprised that didn't come earlier

sorry to disappoint all those who watch lifetime, but i'm not abusive in ANY way, said no to sex twice in our 20+ years together (when i was too sick to perform) and do care that shes satisfied sexually and otherwise.

i dont pretend i have no fault in this. i don't see the point in keeping score of the blame game, but i'd be willing to take the majority of the blame. i'm sure i can't accurately portray her complete side of the story, but i can tell you several things she's said.

she says...
...i'm a great dad
...i sometimes try TOO hard to satisfy her
...i addressed every issue she had with me before we even talked about sex once. she also said took care of the problems
...i help around the house more than most men she knows


and to some of the other things that came up. shes thru menopause, years before it, i suggested chemical imbalance. she said shed ask doc, but never seemed to remember to ask.

told therapis one of her worries was that kids would walk in (they never once had), he suggested a lock for our door. when i bought one, she asked what it was for.

finally, a few things she said to me..
..i love you in a "father of my children" kind of way
..i don't care if i ever have sex again. i like it, but i wouldn't miss it
..i'm not attracted to you
..f you, i'm done with you
..everything from now on is pretend

so hard core oprah fans, theres nothing i can do to convince you im not a jerk. but fact is, shes nice lady and im a good guy, she just doesnt like me anymore.

sorry about the sarcasm, but just weary of the whole deal

 

[SweetErika]

Who said anything abou you guys being abusive?

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Who said anything abou you guys being abusive?

He's referring to the example that Eilan used of her father.

 

[SweetErika]

He's referring to the example that Eilan used of her father.

That's quite a leap. Her example simply pointed out people can portray the situation differently when the other sides aren't presented. I just re-read her post, and nowhere did she accuse anyone but her father of being abusive.

Hell, I'll be the first to say from what we're hearing, it sounds like a lot of these guys' wives are abusive. I consider withholding sex, using it as a weapon and toying with emotions abusive, no question. If one's doing that, they don't love or respect their spouse, and there's no point in staying in a relationship where love isn't mutual.

Nvr, it sounds like your wife has told you in no uncertain terms she's done with the marriage, and it'll be a relief to both of you to end it officially and pursue happiness separately. Hopefully having the same desire/goal will allow you two to do what's best for your kids. And, while it'll be painful for them, they'll be healthier in the long run for seeing their parents happier and model good relationships.

 

[Halo_n_horns]

apologies for not posting since I started this thread

I would love to comment on so many posts but I dont know how to do 'multiple quotes' how do you do that - you folk are so clever

anyhoo - here goes.....

prior to marriage we had regular sex, every night, twice, three times etc.

after marriage - same same

I 'think' she wanted to get pregnant and soon did .... so it tapered off during the pregnancy but sex was still regular and good.

Lack of sleep and new kid kind of killed the mood for a while then we decided to go for kid #2, more sex and more often. the inevitable happened and kid # 2 came along.

more sleep deprivation and the like later and sex frequency dropped off

we agreed to try for child # 3 and so it was like honeymoon time all over again .... guess wot - yup kid #3 came along.

i have raised the lack of intamacy time and time again and she has agreed that she could do better and it was for a while however as someone else posted - it didnt last for long

this happens time and time again

I want to stay with her, I still love her.

She can be a real wild cat in bed, sometimes more than I can handle but I do my best *grin*

but nothing starts unless I start it or unless I fill her with booze

we have tried marriage couselling, talking, ignoring, etc

I do more than my fair share of house work, kid minding, send flowers, whisper sweet nothings, bugger me I can't do much else

I appreciate a lot of the great posts I have read here however I think the next step for me will be out of the door. I cant bring myself to do this cos of what it will do to the kids.

Am I being selfish?

so confused

Pal, you're not being anywhere near selfish. Matter if fact it sounds like she is.

To be completely honest, it sounds like she has you there for her solidified financial support up until your youngest turns 18. AND if you should leave her and she's awarded primary custody of the children, she's into your income for anywhere from 14% to 27% of your GROSS income for each child until he or she turns 18, depending on state laws and the judges. And that wouldn't be the end of it. Should these children decide to live at home and go to college locally, you could be told by the courts to cough up 50% of all of each of their college expenses while the mother would be told no such thing. She could actually sit back and have each of the children work jobs in conjunction with their college so that mother has that much more to spend as she pleases.

Why do I say all of this? Because you're married to a woman who only wants to have sex to make kids. For all you know she's having sex on the side on a regular basis and has sex with you for the baby-makin' so the DNA always matches up.

Think I'm embellishing and stretching all this into grotesque proportions? Put some time into researching divorce cases in California, Nevada, New York, Florida and any other states that skirt the Bible belt. And in the Bible belt these cases can be worse or better for the husbands depending on their standing in the community vs. the evidence brought up for the divorce proceedings.

Now, even if everything I'm saying here was completely ludicrous, though its not, and even if she is an otherwise completely divoted wife, men NEED sex. Its just a fact of being a male. Not all males, but a pretty significant percentage to say the least. You put in the hours at the office, just she may be doing. You put in the hours with the kids, just as I'm sure she is. You put in the hours around the house making sure that things are as they should be, just as I'm sure she is. After all is said and done you have urges that men naturally have that should be accomidated. If the tables were turned you can bet you polka-dot briefs that that's how she'd see it!!!

If I were, for some reason or another, in your situation, I would express my desires and needs blatantly, explicitly, and in no uncertain terms, and then I would ask her permission to seek the sexual gratification elsewhere. If she acquiesced then I would lawyer up, have her do the same, and get Post-Marital contracts done that would cover this situation.

Yes, Post-Marital contracts exist and are just as binding legally as Pre-Marital contracts. My wife and I are looking into them for other purposes.

If she does not acquiesce then there would be two choices; 1) Finish signing over your manhood to her and her lack of efforts and be fucking miserable with your well-exercised right arm for the rest of your life, or 2) Ask for a divorce on the grounds that she's not fulfilling her marital duties as a woman and be prepared to sign over your wallet to her and your manhood to the courts, but at least you might be able to find a suitable replacement for your well exercised right hand.

Now the women here will probably lambast me good for writing these things. But as a man in the good ol' USofA, these are things that you seriously need to consider before living out the rest of your days in sexual drudgery with a wife who won't put serious effort into the intimacies of your marriage.

No matter what you do, though, DO NOT go out sneaking around behind her back cheating on your marriage. If she were to catch you doing that then all of the bad things I described above would suddenly be no worse than a skinned knee on the playground.

Now buck up and make some desicions, even if you conclude that you're going to give in to a sexually mediocre life.

 

[bouncingbetty]

Bouncingbetty, that picture of yours is gorgeous, but it doesn't do much for us guys running dry...

keep trying.

 

[bouncingbetty]

That's quite a leap. Her example simply pointed out people can portray the situation differently when the other sides aren't presented. I just re-read her post, and nowhere did she accuse anyone but her father of being abusive.

Hell, I'll be the first to say from what we're hearing, it sounds like a lot of these guys' wives are abusive. I consider withholding sex, using it as a weapon and toying with emotions abusive, no question. If one's doing that, they don't love or respect their spouse, and there's no point in staying in a relationship where love isn't mutual.

Nvr, it sounds like your wife has told you in no uncertain terms she's done with the marriage, and it'll be a relief to both of you to end it officially and pursue happiness separately. Hopefully having the same desire/goal will allow you two to do what's best for your kids. And, while it'll be painful for them, they'll be healthier in the long run for seeing their parents happier and model good relationships.

i agree. i only withhold sex for a reason (mad at him or him at me ain't getting him any pussy); we both have needs. we are a partnership, and i fuck or suck him when i don't feel up to it, and he has done the same for me. we luv each other and recognize this is an important part of our relationship.

 

[NevrGettinOld]

to conclude...

...erika, believe me, you have been tremendously helpful and i believe you are an honest, sincere and truly fair woman. i appreciate your advice. and i may have read more into eilan's post than she meant. i apologize to her. i thank her for speaking up and she does raise some good points. there are, however, those who would find foot, viosh and myself guilty by reason of possessing a libido.

the final verdict has to be this (at least for me). she and i have to talk (not yell) and decide that we arent doing any of us any good. we have to make the necessary arrangements and agreements. then we have to consume ourselves with the good of the kids. THEN i have to get myself out there and find someone i can be happy with

thanks and good luck to everyone who was a part of this discussion.

 

[SweetErika]

I've read this whole thread, as I am in a similar situation - sexless marriage - and I have got nothing out of all the postings. Not that they are wrong, it's just the same arguments are thrown back and forth... nothing new, but maybe that's too much to expect, the topic being as old as human relationships.

Whatever the reasons, it is not a healthy situation to be in. I am at the stage when, every time I get horny or think about sex, I get mad, because I know I'll get nowhere and my frustration level goes higher. How long can I keep that? I don't know. I haven't looked outside yet, but I think it's the only valid alternative, even though it comes with a log list of other problems. Do I stll love her? Yes. Do I want to end our marriage? No, I don't. So, the only possible solution, as I see it, is to get it discreetly on the side.

Let's hear your arguments!

I think a lot of what people get out of this kind of thread is the impetus to think about their own relationship, consider their options, verbalize their feelings, etc. I've always gotten great advice and support here, but most of the problem-solving comes from within; talking helps me figure out what I really think, make sure I'm not missing anything big, and usually make decisions I feel good about.

If you come looking for easy answers or revelations to major problems, I think you'll be sorely disappointed. If, however, you're here to get things off your chest, hear other experiences, ideas and support, you'll likely get it.

I don't understand why people stay in situations they know to be unhealthy. Nor do I get how one can claim they love another, then go do something that can harm them. Cheating isn't consistent with love, no matter how one spins it. It's not about doing what's best for your spouse, it's the selfish pursuit of your desires and unilaterally taking away their choice to be in the type of relationship they want (be it monogamous, honest, responsible nonmonogamy, respectful, not be in a relationship they disagree with, etc.).

It's like me going out and gambling away our savings because I want/feel the need to play the slots -- shouldn't my husband have a right to object and say he doesn't want to be with someone who's dishonest and makes big decisions that affect him on their own before I go and drain the bank accounts? I think so because I see our marriage as a partnership contract; when we committed, we gave up our rights to make big decisions without consulting each other. We'll dissolve the partnership if we want that right back or we can't come to an agreement on something major. Sex outside the relationship is one of those major things because it could have great physical and emotional ramifications.

Would your wife want to stay married if you told her you were going to get sex elsewhere? If so, you two can make an agreement to that effect. If not, go your separate ways. Deceit and disrespect don't need to be involved at all. If they do/are, then it's not love, and both need to decide whether or not they want to be in a loveless marriage.

 

[lotsoflove]

What a view!

keep trying.

I am trying... I am trying... What a beautiful piece you are.

 

[footlongish]

I withheld sex because it was a way for her to beat me up and it only frustrated me to no end. No matter what I did in bed it was always wrong and yet she didn't provide any direction. It was a game.

I've been spending more and more time away from her and its become clear to me what is going on. My wife has issues. I don't know where they came from. I'm not saying that I am blameless, but I can't fix them on my own and I'm not going to try to either.

 

[Aaron Kyle]

And before you say that I haven't been there--well, I have. Yeah, I made mistakes in my first marriage. But my ex wasn't blameless, either. And neither are the "frustrated" guys posting in this thread, no matter how much they'd like for everyone to believe otherwise. There's plenty of blame to go around if you want to play that game.

I figure that an unhappy marriage is just like a happy one - it takes two to make it happen.

Similar considerations apply to the talk of misogyny and misandry in the media and society that people have mentioned in this thread. I think our world is not very nice to either gender. Serb soldiers raping Bosniak women in Srebenica is certainly misogynistic; but Serb soldiers rounding up 2,000 men from Srebenica, lining them up by the side of a ditch and shooting them, ain't exactly friendly to men, either.

We've got pornography showing women being choked by penises and vomiting - and forced to carry on - which is a pretty aggressive and not very loving towards women thing to do, but we also have Everybody Loves Raymond.

I've been impressed in this thread by the comments of SweetErika, talking about both people making efforts to understand one another, compromise, show kindness and so on. To say, "Well all women/men hate all men/women anyway," or to play some game of "who's the most oppressed today?" isn't very productive. To say, "discuss your need for intimacy with your spouse," is very productive.

I wouldn't claim to know what is the right thing to do for any couple specifically. But in general, open-minded honesty, respect and kindness work pretty well, I think. You can have that even in a break-up.

 

[akatrex]

A couple of times I have refused her advances after her gamesmanship.


Amazing the difference when the REJECTION shoe is on the other foot.


"I don't love her", "you are seeing someone else", etc.


If you use a dangerous weapon be careful of the down range ramifications.


Wife #1 and #2 found that out. Bye Bye Tata