The Pillars of Modern American Conservatism

[JohnEngelman]

Every time we've cut taxes, it's led to revenue increases. The economy grows. Taht broadens the tax base. Also, the lower rates bring more offshored money back into the country.

The problem is spending. Reagan had to deal with a spend-happy Congress controlled by Democrats for most of his term. Unfortunately.

As for family farms, the best way to help them is to stop subsidizing agriculture, ban the Chinese and other hostile entities from owning any farmland (or anything), and reduce the regulatory burdens on them.

Revenue increases from 1970 to 1980 were the same as from 1980 to 1990


During the 1970s the top tax rate was 70%. During the Reagan administration it declined to 28%.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/02inpetr.pdf

During the 1970s the national debt as a percentage of gross domestic product declined from 35% to 32%. During the 1980s the national debt as a percentage of gross domestic product increased from 32% to 54%.

https://www.thebalancemoney.com/national-debt-by-year-compared-to-gdp-and-major-events-3306287

Most of the voters want the government to help us get through life. That is why domestic spending programs are popular.

WASHINGTON (AP)
— As Republican senators consider President Donald Trump’s big bill that could slash federal spending and extend tax cuts, a new survey shows most U.S. adults don’t think the government is overspending on the programs the GOP has focused on cutting, like Medicaid and food stamps.

Americans broadly support increasing or maintaining existing levels of funding for popular safety net programs, including Social Security and Medicare, according to the poll from The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research.

https://apnews.com/article/poll-gov...ial-security-0ccb0538c06d715b43bbbcaa4a1348cf

We want the rich to pay for it.

Pew Research Center, March 19, 2025

Most Americans continue to favor raising taxes on corporations, higher-income households​

ByAndy Cerda
With Congress considering legislation that would extend the tax cuts passed during the first Trump administration, a majority of Americans continue to say taxes should be increased, not decreased, for large businesses and corporations. They also say this for household income over $400,000 a year...

More than six-in-ten U.S. adults (63%) say tax rates on large businesses and corporations should be raised. This includes 34% who say they should be raised a lot.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-r...xes-on-corporations-higher-income-households/

 

[DeluxAuto]

The pillar of current "conservatism."

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[Wilson23]

More falsehoods from you. Projecting again.

You know I'm right -- all the unjust "lawfare" is on the Pub side.

 

[JohnEngelman]

The pillar of current "conservatism."

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Trump has a baked in approval rating of about 41%. This is because of the unconditional support of two constituencies: Christian conservatives and white nationalists.

Christiam conservatives support Trump because he orchestrated the reversal of Roe v Wade.

White nationalists support Trump because he has reduced third world immigration.

 

[JohnEngelman]

The first pillar of conservatism is liberty, or freedom.

Modern conservatism begins with Edmund Burke's Reflections on the Revolution in France, which was written in 1790.

In this book Burke wrote:

"The effect of liberty to individuals is that they may do what they please: we ought to see what it will please them to do, before we risk congratulations, which may soon be turned into complaints...

"But what is liberty without wisdom, and without virtue? It is the greatest of all possible evils; for it is folly, vice, and madness without tuition or restraint."

The freedom advocated by contemporary American conservatives is power over the rest of us. It is the freedom of manufacturers to pollute the environment, and to produce unsafe consumer goods. It is the freedom of employers to mistreat employees.

 

[Wilson23]

The freedom advocated by contemporary American conservatives is power over the rest of us. It is the freedom of manufacturers to pollute the environment, and to produce unsafe consumer goods. It is the freedom of employers to mistreat employees.

Can you doubt Burke would have supported THAT?

 

[SkyBubble]

What happens when we cut taxes for the rich is that the national debt goes up.

First of all, the tax cuts were and are across the board. According to those radical right-wingers at the IRS, the wealthiest taxpayers now pay a bigger share of income taxes.

Taxes have little to nothing to do with deficits and debt. That is a spending issue. We have a bloated government that does way too much at too high a cost and needs to be reduced significantly.

 

[SkyBubble]

You know I'm right -- all the unjust "lawfare" is on the Pub side.

I know you're wrong. Again.

 

[SkyBubble]

Modern conservatism begins with Edmund Burke's Reflections on the Revolution in France, which was written in 1790.

In this book Burke wrote:

"The effect of liberty to individuals is that they may do what they please: we ought to see what it will please them to do, before we risk congratulations, which may soon be turned into complaints...

"But what is liberty without wisdom, and without virtue? It is the greatest of all possible evils; for it is folly, vice, and madness without tuition or restraint."

Burke is one of the roots of contemporary conservatism, very much admired by and a significant influence on Russell Kirk. Kirk's The Conservative Mind: From Burke to Eliot is where contemporary conservatism begins, growing out of ant-New Dealism.

The freedom advocated by contemporary American conservatives is power over the rest of us. It is the freedom of manufacturers to pollute the environment, and to produce unsafe consumer goods. It is the freedom of employers to mistreat employees.

This is a complete lie. The side seeking power over us is not the limited-government (conservative) side, but the Big Government, pro-Leviathan, statist side (the left.)

 

[JohnEngelman]

Taxes have little to nothing to do with deficits and debt. That is a spending issue. We have a bloated government that does way too much at too high a cost and needs to be reduced significantly.

That is like saying that eating sweets has nothing to do with obesity.

Republican tax cuts for the rich raise the national debt.

 

[JohnEngelman]

Burke is one of the roots of contemporary conservatism, very much admired by and a significant influence on Russell Kirk. Kirk's The Conservative Mind: From Burke to Eliot is where contemporary conservatism begins, growing out of ant-New Dealism.

This is a complete lie. The side seeking power over us is not the limited-government (conservative) side, but the Big Government, pro-Leviathan, statist side (the left.)

In the conflict between the rich and the rest the rest need and want a democratic government on our side with high taxes for the rich and plenty of regulations for businessmen.

 

[Sean Renaud]

History proves you wrong on that.

And it's market economies that give you options. The incentive to improve your own lot drives innovation and expansion. We have these computers we're using because of market capitalism. We have devices you can carry in your pocket that have more computing power than the entire Johnson Space Center had when men walked on the moon because of market capitalism. We have houses, abundant food choices, etc., because of market capitalism.

Teh Pilgrims almost starved under the "common store." They switched to a system where you keep what you produce and they had an abundance. This has been the same story with every communal experiment in America and abroad. Socialism removes incentive, denies consumers and producers choice, and always winds up in an authoritarian system in a desperate effort to make it "work."

Who lied to you and told you that?

 

[GhostFence2024]

The first pillar of conservatism is liberty, or freedom. Conservatives believe that individuals possess the right to life, liberty, and property, and freedom from the restrictions of arbitrary force.

Bam, Conservaturds shot that dead on the spot out the gate. No liberty for women, and arbitrary force is now rampant.

 

[Wilson23]

This is a complete lie. The side seeking power over us is not the limited-government (conservative) side, but the Big Government, pro-Leviathan, statist side (the left.)

The left is not politically relevant -- YET. Never, ever say "the left" when you mean "the Democrats."

 

[YDB95]

Who lied to you and told you that?

There is literally a cottage industry on the right for rewriting history. We see it every time they give Republicans credit for the Civil Rights Act, just for starters.

 

[Wilson23]

We have a bloated government that does way too much at too high a cost and needs to be reduced significantly.

We find out different every time it shuts down.

 

[SkyBubble]

That is like saying that eating sweets has nothing to do with obesity.

Republican tax cuts for the rich raise the national debt.

Once again,

1. The tax cuts are across the board. Teh wealthiest taxpayers got the LOWEST proportional cut.
2. Cutting taxes and regulatory burdens increase revenues by growing the economy. More people to tax. The problem is that politicians see the new revenues and increase spending even faster.

SPENDING is what got us in debt. It is always and only a spending problem.

 

[SkyBubble]

Who lied to you and told you that?

It's simply the truth.

 

[Wilson23]

SPENDING is what got us in debt. It is always and only a spending problem.

Then it is a problem with no solution. Every time we look at government spending, it turns out there is really nothing there we can do without. DOGE proved that quite recently.

 

[SkyBubble]

The left is not politically relevant -- YET. Never, ever say "the left" when you mean "the Democrats."

It dominates one of our major parties.

 

[SkyBubble]

We find out different every time it shuts down.

Actually, no, we find out we can live quite fine without so much government.

 

[SkyBubble]

There is literally a cottage industry on the right for rewriting history. We see it every time they give Republicans credit for the Civil Rights Act, just for starters.

We're not the ones rewriting history. That's your gig.

 

[SkyBubble]

Then it is a problem with no solution. Every time we look at government spending, it turns out there is really nothing there we can do without. DOGE proved that quite recently.

DOGE found a lot we could cut, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Unfortunately, the politicians don't have the will. We could get along just fine without about 90% of the Federal government.

 

[Wilson23]

DOGE found a lot we could cut, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Unfortunately, the politicians don't have the will. We could get along just fine without about 90% of the Federal government.

Every time it shuts down, we find out different.

 

[YDB95]

It dominates one of our major parties.

I wish!