Time to Tame the Trolls

[DrFreud]

What! If you get rid of the trolls, we'd have no more of the satiric troll the troll stories!

On a more serious note, I agree with Colly. If you sweat so much about feedback, no measure is going to change that. I think restrictive measures need to be in place for contests and competitions only.

OR you can get rid of the "1" button completely

 

[oggbashan]

Look at your laurels

Imp,

Look at your list of submissions and how many Hs are marked against them.

Then click on the link in my signature to my stories and compare the proportion of Hs that I have.

I do not think that you have much evidence that your stories are trolled. I might have. It is a matter of perception. I think that my lower ratings are the result of my uneven quality and failed experimentation.

The other perception is that not everyone realises that on a scale of 1 to 5 they should only vote 3,4 or 5. If someone had not lurked for some time how would they realise that a 1 vote is perceived to be unfair even if the story does nothing for them?

Not all 1 votes are malicious. Some may be genuine expressions of opinion; some may be genuine misconception about the normal voting conventions here.

I think you are reading too much into the rating system and seeing more animosity than actually exists.

Og

 

[cloudy]

I have to chime in with Neon here.

I've received 1-bombs from someone with which I was having a rather heated exchange here on the forum. He was a bigot, plain and simple, and as most of you know, I have a habit of saying exactly what I think - whether that's in my own interests or not. (Shallkneel4u - I'm sure some of you remember that). The discussion changed from one of bigotry, to a more personal attack in which he talked about my job skills, my children, and my writing, and then lost no time in bombing every single one of my stories.

It happens.

Like Neon, I sometimes wonder how many of us censor our posts sometimes simply because we know the person we're replying to is likely to take it out on our scores. I've never done that, and I won't. The two things aren't related at all, but there are some that do.

I still check my scores, as I'm sure most of us do, but I have learned in the year I've been here not to obsess over it. Winning contests is nice, but I think a lot of them are more popularity contests than they are writing contests. I just take the bad with the good, and keep on truckin'.

I love to write, and I don't know of any other site where I can post my stories, get feedback, and best of all, have the support and friendship I do here.

Two cents - for what it's worth.

 

[impressive]

Imp,

Look at your list of submissions and how many Hs are marked against them.

Then click on the link in my signature to my stories and compare the proportion of Hs that I have.

I do not think that you have much evidence that your stories are trolled. I might have. It is a matter of perception. I think that my lower ratings are the result of my uneven quality and failed experimentation.

The other perception is that not everyone realises that on a scale of 1 to 5 they should only vote 3,4 or 5. If someone had not lurked for some time how would they realise that a 1 vote is perceived to be unfair even if the story does nothing for them?

Not all 1 votes are malicious. Some may be genuine expressions of opinion; some may be genuine misconception about the normal voting conventions here.

I think you are reading too much into the rating system and seeing more animosity than actually exists.

Og

You're entitled to your opinion, of course.

However, I am aware of all my scores and how they change from day to day. I know for a fact that 2/3 of them received 1 votes in the course of 2 days. If that's not a trolling, I don't know what is. Just because a 1 vote doesn't rob a story of it's red H, doesn't mean it wasn't a trolling -- and it certainly impacts position on a Top List.

I have all the evidence I need and will be happy to provide it to someone who's going to DO SOMETHING about it.

 

[doormouse]

I don't know how many of you go to paltalk, but in the karaoke comp rooms, if someone votes a 1 or a 2, they are asked to explain. 90% of the time they change their vote.

It should work that way here too. It'd save the callous jerks that vote low to deliberately hurt someone.

Good luck with it all imp, and please don't let the few assholes out there drive you away. Chin up.

 

[TxRad]

Cloudy...

I've only been here a short while but on two different occasions, i have started a reply to a post and then deleted it because of fear of reprisals... Not because what i was going to say wasn't true or hurtful but because the other person was being a total ass.... and their reputation.. or what i gathered to be their personality from other posts/posters

Another site that I visit and am a regular on started out with "anonymous'. We had much the same problems on an even more personal level as it originally was an armature pic site. Now, everyone that visits must be registered. it hasn't stopped the problems completely but it has lessened them markedly and allowed the site some control by isp addresses. ie banning malicious users.... yes they do return under other isp's but they keep getting banned and slowly die out....

 

[BlackShanglan]

I'll state my bias from the start. I am determined not to allow voting to rule my life or my writing. I not longer contact Laurel when trolled (although I'd appreciate not receiving a barrage of 1's for that statement). I eat the 1's, and I scrutinize my work carefully to ask if I might have placed barriers to the reader that not everyone would care to climb over.

That said ...

I've mulled, myself, the question of anonymous voting. On the whole I think it might be useful to eliminate it. However, it might just encourage trolls to generate a half-hundred ID's to vote with, clogging up Lit's databases to no good purpose; that's something that I imagine the management is weighing up. I don't think it at all wise to insist that the author be able to see the userid for every vote placed on the work. That would eliminate nearly all honest feedback or voting, and as Tateluo points out, 5-bombing can be just as much of an issue.

I do, with all deference to Impressive, wish to state that I think it unreasonable to pillory the management on this issue. Yes, the site has advertising on it. But there's very little of it, it's not in any of the main forums or stories, and I find it hard to believe that they are making much money from it. When weighed against the sheer man-hours it takes to run this site, I would guess that it's a pittance. Impressive doesn't feel that we owe the management gratitude for what is essentially a commercial venture; I disagree. This is not a site that can be run in "hobby" amounts of time. The sheer volume of stories to be read is massive, and the technical end complex and demanding. Someone out there is making this site a full-time job, probable several someones, and I don't imagine that they are getting rich from it. I believe that there are some serious sacrifices being made so that we can all continue to enjoy this site, and I believe that we do owe gratitude for those sacrifices. While trolling may be a problem, the problem is the trolls. The management does try to remedy this problem - more than I would have guessed, as frankly I was very surprised that they even bothered to remove 1-votes with the volume of stories and authors they have here.

They are doing their best, and doing it for little reward and, apparently, precious little thanks as well. I think it behooves us all to consider just how important our own chagrin at a trolling is in the grand scheme of life.

Shanglan

 

[rgraham666]

My turn to weigh in.

I myself am not worrying about the trolls anymore. The first few stories I posted, they got trolled, I bought it to managements attention and they did something about it.

Then I had a large enough body of work that a few ones here and there didn't signify. My stories do well, my feedback is almost universally supportive and I'm happy with my work.

As far as I can tell, Laurel and Manu do try to keep the viciousness to a minimum. Asking for more that that is too much.

Sorry, imp.

 

[Liar]

Take it from a geek: to get rid of troll voting enirely without manually scrutinizing every vote would require an artificial intelligence that would reduce HAL to an abacus in comparison.

If more of the real readers actually voted instead, (my stories have a 100/1 ratio between numbers of reads and numbers of votes) the trolling votes would get more marginalised and matter less.

#L

 

[Poussin]

.....

 

[Evil Alpaca]

I wish I had thick enough skin. As Shanglan (and others) can attest, I've complained quite a bit about trolls recently. I'm fine with stories starting strong and slipping a bit. I'm NOT fine with every one of my stories that had been doing well for a long time suddenly plummeting down the lists, particularly in the Lesbian category. When you have a story (tooting my own horn a bit) be #1 in its category for a month and then not even be in the top 75 a few days later, then the trolling has ceased being a minor nuisance and has turned into a personal attack.

I have grown to appreciate the effort the webmaster put in to trying to protect writer's from this and am happy to have a safeguard. I would love to see some form of troll smashing, going about it is tricky. Another site I've posted on forces you to leave feedback if you leave a vote of less than 5 (on a 1-10 scale). Unfortunately what this does is push the overall voting up and discourages the use of the full scale, even when justified. Of course there, you even have the option of posting anonymously below five, but people just don't get it. I know this is a petty complaint, but I hate it when two stories get the same vote while one was pretty good but needed some work while the other met the bare minimum and the two were forced together my a limited scale. This would be especially pronounced here because we are working with a smaller scale in the first place.

I still think it would be better than nothing to force responses, just pointing out the downside of the plan.

 

[ishtat]

Positive Option

I 'm not sure you will ever get rid of trolls entirely.

Would it help if a more positive view was taken of the people who commented by doubling or tripling the effect of a score attached to a comment of more than say 10 words.(that could also be applied retrospectively, thus retaining a common base of comparasion for all stories). 10 words would put off or strain most trolls beyond their limit .

The biggest problem I think is not trolling but the very small proportion of readers who neither comment nor vote at all. Just check the numbers.

I think that encouraging the silent part of the readership to become more involved must be beneficial and perhaps might interest the people who run Lit because it is a reasonable bet that the number of hits would increase.

Billy Goat Gruff

 

[neonlyte]

Just as a point of interest

589 member and guests on the site a couple of minutes ago
371 are in the forums (of whom 92, the largest number, are on the Picture forum)
218 are reading stories (37%)

 

[impressive]

Impressive doesn't feel that we owe the management gratitude for what is essentially a commercial venture;

Impressive didn't say that. Impressive just said:

That gratitude only goes so far with me (ref my "pledge" to Lit).

Impressive ALSO said:

Without authors, THERE WOULD BE NO LIT. That fact, in and of itself, should garner us adequate protection against attacks.

I'm not insinuating that Lit is getting rich off us ... or even that it's breaking even. I don't know and really don't care. However, I do know that WE, by GIVING our material, are instrumental in Lit's very existence.

I appreciate Lit's existence and the effort that goes into its upkeep. I show it by supporting Lit as stated in my "pledge." I do NOT feel more "appreciation" (a la putting up with trolls) is necessary or deserved. In fact, I feel it's downright demeaning.

Someone asked if I was willing to lose all anonymous votes -- even the 5s. YES!

Requiring all readers to register before having their votes count also helps Lit secure more ad revenue (as a statistic). Sure some of the more determined scum-sucking bottom feeders might create a few alts. So? Those alts would STILL be subject to voting scrutiny and potentially held accountable in ways "anonymous" will NEVER be.

Bottom line: Things are not going to get better unless we make it happen. If the current state of affairs is okay with you, then so be it.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

I feel your pain Imp. The other night a troll swept through and voted on some of my stories that had H's. They either lost their H's or dropped down to the point of almost losing them. I sent Laurel a pm since there were more than a handful instead of using the report link at the bottom of the stories. Nothing's been done. Usually when I report a story, it gets fixed quickly. I don't know if it's not getting fixed this time because I sent a pm instead of reporting or what.

I *know* it was a troll attack because it happened so close together, and it seemed it was going down the list of my stories alphabetically cause each time I'd hit refresh a rating on an H story had changed.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I feel your pain Imp. The other night a troll swept through and voted on some of my stories that had H's. They either lost their H's or dropped down to the point of almost losing them. I sent Laurel a pm since there were more than a handful instead of using the report link at the bottom of the stories. Nothing's been done. Usually when I report a story, it gets fixed quickly. I don't know if it's not getting fixed this time because I sent a pm instead of reporting or what.

I *know* it was a troll attack because it happened so close together, and it seemed it was going down the list of my stories alphabetically cause each time I'd hit refresh a rating on an H story had changed.

Crim,

use the report this story on one of them and mention the others. Laurel has said it gets done faster if you use the link.

*HUGS*

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

I don't feel like having my vote logged and available to the author--I prefer being able to vote without fear of that person getting annoyed or abusive just because I gave it a "4" or a "3" (as I do give those from time to time, the world isn't all "1"s and "5"s). I will simply stop voting altogether if I'm to be public about it, I don't want to hurt someone's feelings.

I don't write as a matter of popularity contests. I don't post what I write here because I want to be recognized as the best or get credit for being ordinally ranked amongst the other authors here. This is not a competition for me.

So, while I appreciate that we feel bad when we get bombed--and all the sympathy in the world for that--if we want to start a movement to improve something around here, I should hope we could do better than fear of people clicking on "1" when they vote on how much they liked porn.

 

[cantdog]

This is not just a complaint of impressive's about one-bombers and malicious voters. The site is very large and sometimes shows itself a little unwieldy, besides.

I agree with imp to a degree.

My gut said, no, the voting is always going to be flawed. No, the voting is not that important. Votes on my stories vanish frequently and I don't ever ask for it to be done, so I know that sweeps are taking place.

But I ask you to consider again the size of the place. A simple programmed mechanism to make the voting easier to police and less likely to represent a slap in the face-- what's wrong with that? Half a million people registered here at one time or another, or half a million alts of only three people, if you believe CV.

What would be the negative effect if every casual voter could still vote, the sweeps of duplicates and malicious votes continued as they do now, but anonymous votes ceased to impact story ratings?

It would reduce the workload policing the fraudulent votes, because there would be fewer "real" votes to deal with.

I think it would show the writers what they want to know better than the present open system does. I know I am more interested in the votes of the members on my stories than I am in the votes of thrteen year old casual smut readers or obsessed-with-pregnancy sweaty-palmed bizarros. I like to think I get a better proportion of voters I would pay attention to if Imp's little reform goes through.

I like the idea that all can vote, but I'm willing to deny those votes an impact on ratings and contests and all that. For curiosity's sake, perhaps a tally of the ghost vote (non-member vote) could be kept, especially at first, to see what we are missing.

It's a reasonable idea.

cantdog

 

[R. Richard]

I do not regard my concern with ratings as an ego thing. I am trying to get published on some "for pay" sites. In some of the cases, they want to see some of my published work. I basically am forced to refer them to Literotica. The more "H" ratings I have and the higher the scores, the better my chances. If a troll hits me with a 1 vote, he/she is affecting my ability to get paid for my writing. IMNTHO that is theft.

If I read a story that has so many typos, bad grammer and misuse of words that it is a chore to read the story, then a 1 or 2 vote may be appropriate. If I were to give such a score, I would also comment as to why. I might give a 1 or 2 vote to a story that clearly and obviously is out of category. Again, I would comment why. I would never give a 1 or 2 vote because I don't like someone's story unless the story was a gratuitous attack on some person or group that amounted to hate mail.

I have at least two voters who routinely troll my stories. The question I have for them is why do they continue to read my stories if they do not like them?

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

If you're using your literotica catalogue to further your commercial resume', I should think those looking at it would be receptive to the idea that this is free anonymous voting, and the ratings ought be secondary to the quality of the story they're looking for.

 

[English Lady]

R.Richard...you might think about setting up your own site with all your stories on...might even be able to hook you up with some cheap hosting (not promising mind but ifyou're interested I could enquire) as it always looks good to have your own tasteful looking site to showcase your works of art

 

[Belegon]

When you have a story (tooting my own horn a bit) be #1 in its category for a month and then not even be in the top 75 a few days later, then the trolling has ceased being a minor nuisance and has turned into a personal attack.

I had a similar occurance in "Group Sex", although my story was in the top slot for less time, only a couple of weeks. Then it was suddenly off the first page.

I knew it was trolling, and to be honest it was the only time I have ever complained about voting and it was also the time the least has been done about it. That voiced, I dont want to completely give up anon. voting.

I DO like the idea of two voting scores, an overall score and a score by registered users only.

Imp, don't you dare leave me! I will be very upset if you are not here to flirt with...although I know you would keep in touch through normal email, I would still miss you awfully...

 

[impressive]

Imp, don't you dare leave me! I will be very upset if you are not here to flirt with...although I know you would keep in touch through normal email, I would still miss you awfully...

I'm not going anywhere -- but my stories and poems are being pulled if changes aren't made (or plans to make changes communicated to us) in the very near future. I feel no need/desire to freely share the products of my passions with Lit, otherwise.

I'll still write, and I'll still share with friends -- just not on Lit.

 

[mismused]

I have all the evidence I need and will be happy to provide it to someone who's going to DO SOMETHING about it.

===================================================

I did that once, but no one listened. I even sent PM's to Laurel, and posted them. Nothing was changed. Also went the "prescribed" way of reporting routine. (BTW, not talking about my original "Did I catch someone" thread.)

Good luck, IMPressive. You da best!

mismused

 

[Blackie Malone]

===================================================

I did that once, but no one listened. I even sent PM's to Laurel, and posted them. Nothing was changed. Also went the "prescribed" way of reporting routine. (BTW, not talking about my original "Did I catch someone" thread.)

QUOTE]

It did inspire a few to do a lovely challenge.