War on the "Trolls"

[oggbashan]

Maybe I have thicker skin. Some of my stories are provocative by intent. I leave all my stories up and let the trolls do their worst. Even they are a substantial improvement on the response to my stories in Yahoo's Adult Groups which is usually a deafening silence.

I have only edited one story substantially - because I made a mess of it and the criticism was fair.

Og

 

[lil_elvis]

I tend not to vote. Generally just leave a pc or send feedback.

Voting in a democratic institution can be ugly, messy, dissapointing and unpredictable. (Think 'W').

However, it still beats any other option. How would we feel if our stories were arbitrarily accepted/rejected from publication by some anonymous group of all knowing editors? At least at lit, if you can write reasonably coherently and obey the rules against minors and beastiality (limits I'll gladly accept), your story gets published. If the author elects the option, then the public can vote, leave pc's and send feedback.

Good scores are nice, but thoughtful feedback is what I prefer. With votes, you never know if it's a good/bad story or just a category the reader loves/hates. Although why people read cats they despise still escapes me.

 

[matriarch]

I have voted the full gamut of 1 to 5, and I do not consider myself a troll. If a story, in my view, deserves a 1, then I give it a 1. I most certainly do not give 5's automatically because the writer is a friend. That would just be totally pointless. And disgustingly sycophantic.

The only time I ever complained was when I received a one vote on every one of my stories and poems over a 24hour period. I mentioned it to Laurel and then thought no more about it. Somewhere around 3 months later the scores were suddenly adjusted and those votes removed.

Now I rarely check my scores. I haven't done it for months.

 

[cantdog]

If I can, while I'm in the act of not voting because I don't have a 5 for the story, I'll send a feedback. I'll tell them what I saw that bugged me. Unreal dialogue, characters knowing things they couldn't possibly have known, description in such excruciating detail that the story goes into neutral and spins its wheels to wait for it to be over. I sign the feedback, because i want to discuss it. But then, I liked Lit in the first place because people would go out of their way to help me write better.

 

[cantdog]

Synthia? Leaving the site is opting out of all that we've discussed here, including the writers' workshop aspects, which are invaluable. And the voting thing is entirely optional. If it really bothers you, you can turn it off, on a story-by-story basis. I think the overall package is worth while, so I'm still here.

 

[matriarch]

Synthia? Leaving the site is opting out of all that we've discussed here, including the writers' workshop aspects, which are invaluable. And the voting thing is entirely optional. If it really bothers you, you can turn it off, on a story-by-story basis. I think the overall package is worth while, so I'm still here.

Exactly.

 

[cantdog]

"If a story deserves a 2, I give it a 2." I hear that. I hear it plenty. But it doesn't help any. If a story deserves a three or a four, then write the author and help them get better. What the hell? Do you think your 2 or 3 or whatever is going to speak so clearly?

It's real effect is to lower the story's rating below the threshhold of noticeability. By itself, that is all the 2 or 3 vote will do. Authors assume your vote was given to have that effect, and they assume it because that's all it does.

Unless it's a contest. Then it does a little more. And once again, the author is left, in the absence of any feedback, to figure that all you voted for was to drop their score.

That's what taught me to stop voting at all unless I have a five to give. And to write a feedback when I can, if i don't want to give a five. But go ahead if you like.

 

[BlackSnake]

I think it's very hard to have thick skin when someone is nailing work you put your heart into.

It's hard, but look at all the positives that go along with it. Turn off public comments, but allow feedback. Every now and then someone will send you a message that is very helpful. It has happen to me more than once. You'll be glad you did.

 

[Guest]

*sighs in understanding*

For the past week or so... I have watched... two people that were in my life take themselves and a few others (other authors from Lit that I don't even know) and go through and tank ALL of my hot stories.... every single flipping one of them. They didn't do this because they were bad or deserved it.... they were tanking stories that had been up for over a year and a half... stories that had oodles of votes.... and these 6 or so people come in and all vote 1s on the story..... stories that were 4.8 and 4.76.... all tanked... because of their mean vicious sickness.....

So... am I in favor of having the voting changed.... so that things like that can't happen...... so that if you have a story with 25 votes and the rating is a 4.86 and then suddenly it has 31 votes and is a 4.25..... yeah... I am all in favor of modifying the way the voting is tallied....

I agree with something someone else said.....
To have your heart... something that you gave all of yourself to.... get royally screwed over... hurts.... beyond measure.

Always, E

 

[BlackShanglan]

I also vote the full range - or nearly. I don't think I've ever actually voted a "1," but that's largely because I won't vote a story I haven't read all of the way through, and things that read like 1's are a waste of time to read.

While it's true that a 1 or a 2 doesn't tell the author much about how to improve, it's also true that the voting system isn't just there for authors. It's also - even primarily - for readers, to help them choose stories that are worth reading. A vote that sinks a story from visibility might, in this sense, be fair. It's a note to other readers: this isn't really worth your time.

In that sense, excessive 5-votes are as much a problem as excessive low votes. 5's also don't tell an author how or where to improve, and 5's can inflate a story's score in the same way that low votes can sink it. If the goal is to indicate to other readers what's worth reading, then having one's friends chip in 5's skews as much as one's enemies generously donating 1's.

But in truth, none of this tells one anything about the story or the writing. I shan't rant on - I've done it too often on this topic, at any rate - but the votes are a bauble. They mean very little. Why invest them with a power that they lack?

Shanglan

 

[BlackSnake]

How about this. Once a stories gain 50 votes all votes must be at least the average.

Say if your story rates 3.0 then the minium vote that could count would have to be at least a 3. This would disallow 1's and 2's.

So minium voting accepted for 4.25 is a 4. This could be done programmically.

<?php

$minvote = floor(4.25) // current rating

if ( $currentvote < $minvote)
{
// refuse vote
}
else
{
// allow vote
}

?>

 

[impressive]

How about this. Once a stories gain 50 votes all votes must be at least the average.

Say if your story rates 3.0 then the minium vote that could count would have to be at least a 3. This would disallow 1's and 2's.

So minium voting accepted for 4.25 is a 4. This could be done programmically.

Your earlier option was best. Publish 'em. That way the trolls have to PAY to dis 'em. (It'll also give you a better feel for the true quality of the writing. Sales are telling. Reviews are more subjective.)

 

[cantdog]

impy, you have the most beautiful eyes.

 

[cantdog]

I like neither the idea with which this thread began nor that one from BlackSnake. Let the chips fall. The site already removes repeat votes, and also, I think, votes which have a strong probability of having been malicious. Look at Mat's story.

That's enough. No tweaking the votes. If you can't deal with it, don't deal with it. As an author, you have that option.

 

[Guest]

could always make it so that we can see WHO voted what....I know that they track votes by IP addies.... I think that the trolls should have to be accountable just like all of us

 

[cantdog]

could always make it so that we can see WHO voted what....I know that they track votes by IP addies.... I think that the trolls should have to be accountable just like all of us

There! A very good idea. Anonymously, anyone can say any damn thing. I have been in workplaces where anonymous complaints were taken very seriously. Injustice always results. Pull the complaints out where we can see them.

 

[impressive]

impy, you have the most beautiful eyes.

Thanks.

 

[LadyJeanne]

impy, you have the most beautiful eyes.

Ditto!

 

[impressive]

Ditto!

The rest of me ain't bad, either.

 

[cantdog]

You could even be described as impressive...

 

[cloudy]

The rest of me ain't bad, either.

you give good tongue, too.

 

[impressive]

you give good tongue, too.

Right back atcha.

Now ... stop hijacking the good troll thread.





You can start another thread to tell me how wonderful I am.

 

[LadyJeanne]

The rest of me ain't bad, either.

From what I saw this week, the rest of you is way better than not bad!

 

[Liar]

could always make it so that we can see WHO voted what....I know that they track votes by IP addies.... I think that the trolls should have to be accountable just like all of us

If everybody is cool with only letting registered members vote (I wonder how many of the votes are by Lit members, and how many are by the visiting public), then I see no problem with this. It might significally reduce the total number of votes though.

And everyone would have to sign a "no hard feelings and petty retaliation if I don't give you a 5" clause with me (in blood) before I read their stories. Because I will cast honest votes, and it will happen that sometimes it dents a perfect 5.0 score, knocking a toplist leader down from the top, or a competition leader down to second place. Not because I want to piss on peoples' parades, but because I thought the story deserved a 4 or 3, regardless of what others have voted before me.

If I hear one pouting complaint about that, then I'll never vote again.

 

[kbate]

As long as the site permits people to have multiple ID's and anonymous voting and feedback there will always be troll voting. I simply accept that this is part of the deal when I hit the submit button. Laurel does as well as possible in removing the one bombers from the totals for contest stories.

The nature of Lit makes troll voting easy and prizes for winners ensure trolls.