What is feminism?

[PertPerth]

It's interesting reading the comments about "fair" being the nasty f-word. Growing up, my parents put a lot of effort into making things "equal", not necessarily "fair". Now that I'm older, I've come to realise that in my world, I'd like to see people treated fairly, not necessarily equally....after all, we're all different (and there are so many more differences than just gender!)

 

[Netzach]

I am living the dream.

I work long ass days doing a lucrative job I enjoy. M helps me with some photo shoots, but lately he mostly cleans up and plays catch up on the house stuff. And looks pretty. And drives me around some. When the house is in order he'll dive into the heavy backend shit, till now I just want his pretty face and behind in photos some.

I feel no guilt any longer about the fact that:

I don't like domestic work. I'm not any good at domestic work. I put off domestic work. I don't care about it at all. I never have. I am more than happy to sweat my ASS off to support someone else who can do that shit.

I've always felt this unbelievable burden of guilt over this, and I've had to deal with the abusive screaming and humiliation of my family over it.

If I were a dude this would be a non-issue.

And now I'm not and it is.

 

[BiBunny]

I am living the dream.

I work long ass days doing a lucrative job I enjoy. M helps me with some photo shoots, but lately he mostly cleans up and plays catch up on the house stuff. And looks pretty. And drives me around some. When the house is in order he'll dive into the heavy backend shit, till now I just want his pretty face and behind in photos some.

I feel no guilt any longer about the fact that:

I don't like domestic work. I'm not any good at domestic work. I put off domestic work. I don't care about it at all. I never have. I am more than happy to sweat my ASS off to support someone else who can do that shit.

I've always felt this unbelievable burden of guilt over this, and I've had to deal with the abusive screaming and humiliation of my family over it.

If I were a dude this would be a non-issue.

And now I'm not and it is.

Want this, running my own biz and all.

'Cept I want a farm that my as-yet-to-be-completed poly "family" can live on like we're the goddamn Oneida Community.

 

[satindesire]

My father-in-law has always done WAY more chores than my mother-in-law. He's responsible for just about everything except laundry. (We all do our own dishes.)

My dad was, unfortunately, like this, except way worse! I didn't realize it at the time, but my mother took advantage of my dad terribly when I was a child, and still does. When they lived alone, my disabled father had to wash the laundry, do the dishes, and cook for himself, along with paying all the bills, doing all the driving and cleaning the house. My mother doesn't do...literally...ANYTHING except cook...but only for herself. Never for anyone else.

Asking her will get the same "I've never been interested in housekeeping." speeches. Which is fine, but my mom also never WORKED, so she never...did...anything. when I was a kid. My dad put in 70-80 plus hour work weeks for years straight with no vacations or sick days, and still had to take care of me and the house by himself with no help from her.

It's disgusting.

Now that I've moved them in with us, Mister and I do 90% of the housekeeping, although he does their laundry sometimes and pays their portion of the bills by himself, by check so he doesn't have to drive. Mom still doesn't do anything. Asking is pointless. She's not innocently uninterested in housework like Netz, she's viciously lazy and literally will live in a fly-infested, stinking shithole rather than clean. I've seen it happen.



When you're willing to go out and make money, or just CONTRIBUTE...to the well being and maintenance of the household in some way, that's fair, so that's good. But lazy is just wrong.

 

[Netzach]

Want this, running my own biz and all.

'Cept I want a farm that my as-yet-to-be-completed poly "family" can live on like we're the goddamn Oneida Community.

Chores just got a fuckload more complicated. Damn, I just want someone to vacuum. LOL.

My mother made the mistake of telling me I was lazy this year and for the first time in my 37 almost years on the planet, acknowledged that this is a crack-smoking-esque insane statement by any standards - I was like "excuse me?". I actually believed her for the longest time, too, while running a breakeven ART business, while doing 5 hours of reading a night for classes.

No son would ever be talked to like that, not in my family.

 

[BiBunny]

Chores just got a fuckload more complicated. Damn, I just want someone to vacuum. LOL.

Yeah. It'd be a pain. But I think I'd like it.

My mother made the mistake of telling me I was lazy this year and for the first time in my 37 almost years on the planet, acknowledged that this is a crack-smoking-esque insane statement by any standards - I was like "excuse me?". I actually believed her for the longest time, too, while running a breakeven ART business, while doing 5 hours of reading a night for classes.

No son would ever be talked to like that, not in my family.

My mother's been telling me I'm lazy for years. I've given up trying to make her understand that I'm not interested in the mundane, like housework or the corporate world. I LOVE what I do. Well, the actual PSO part I don't like that much. I have a hard time pretending like I give a shit most of the time. But the challenge of marketing and then the extra freelance writing on the side?

And, hell, no, they act like my lazy, alcoholic cousin walks on water if he manages to show up sober. He has a penis, thus he is all that is good and worthy.

 

[satindesire]

WTF is up with the girls of bad mothers ending up in BDSM relationships?!

 

[Netzach]

My mother is OK in the mediocre but passable sense. HER parents, on the other hand...

 

[BiBunny]

WTF is up with the girls of bad mothers ending up in BDSM relationships?!

I call it "destined to repeat history."

 

[00Syd]

*shrug*

My mom is great.

 

[satindesire]

Relax, ladies, it was just a joke. XD;

 

[Stella_Omega]

My dad was, unfortunately, like this, except way worse! I didn't realize it at the time, but my mother took advantage of my dad terribly when I was a child, and still does. When they lived alone, my disabled father had to wash the laundry, do the dishes, and cook for himself, along with paying all the bills, doing all the driving and cleaning the house. My mother doesn't do...literally...ANYTHING except cook...but only for herself. Never for anyone else.

Asking her will get the same "I've never been interested in housekeeping." speeches. Which is fine, but my mom also never WORKED, so she never...did...anything. when I was a kid. My dad put in 70-80 plus hour work weeks for years straight with no vacations or sick days, and still had to take care of me and the house by himself with no help from her.

It's disgusting.

Now that I've moved them in with us, Mister and I do 90% of the housekeeping, although he does their laundry sometimes and pays their portion of the bills by himself, by check so he doesn't have to drive. Mom still doesn't do anything. Asking is pointless. She's not innocently uninterested in housework like Netz, she's viciously lazy and literally will live in a fly-infested, stinking shithole rather than clean. I've seen it happen.



When you're willing to go out and make money, or just CONTRIBUTE...to the well being and maintenance of the household in some way, that's fair, so that's good. But lazy is just wrong.

I kinda heart your mother, just for the transgression. I'm sure it's unpleasant to live with. But I wonder what it took that she doesn't feel compelled to be a nice lady.

And I love it because I've heard exactly one story like this in recent memory-- yours, and yours alone.

Stories like this about fathers? Thousands.

 

[satindesire]

I kinda heart your mother, just for the transgression. I'm sure it's unpleasant to live with. But I wonder what it took that she doesn't feel compelled to be a nice lady.

And I love it because I've heard exactly one story like this in recent memory-- yours, and yours alone.

Stories like this about fathers? Thousands.

She doesn't feel like being 'a nice lady' because she doesn't care about anyone but herself. She only married my father because she got pregnant with me. She's never been in love with him and doesn't actually care about me OR him at all.

I'm glad you like her so much. Makes me feel great to know a person who took advantage and neglected her family so much can have a fan.

 

[graceanne]

And I love it because I've heard exactly one story like this in recent memory-- yours, and yours alone.

Stories like this about fathers? Thousands.

I know of tons of stories like this. Visit low income areas some time - there's tons of women like that, just like there's tons of men like that.

 

[Etoile]

And I love it because I've heard exactly one story like this in recent memory-- yours, and yours alone.

I said it earlier, though not in so many words!

My mother-in-law cooks for fun, so she mostly cooks sweet things, so we all enjoy them. She also does the laundry, and washes her OWN dishes. That's it. The rest is all my father-in-law. Well, and me, now that I live here.

 

[Stella_Omega]

She doesn't feel like being 'a nice lady' because she doesn't care about anyone but herself. She only married my father because she got pregnant with me. She's never been in love with him and doesn't actually care about me OR him at all.

I'm glad you like her so much. Makes me feel great to know a person who took advantage and neglected her family so much can have a fan.

Seriously, I am sorry. Antiheroes totally suck in real life. They are only fun to read about.

Sounds like narcissistic personality disorder. That is really tough on the people around the "sufferer" (who never actually suffers because they would have to care.)

 

[satindesire]

Seriously, I am sorry. Antiheroes totally suck in real life. They are only fun to read about.

Sounds like narcissistic personality disorder. That is really tough on the people around the "sufferer" (who never actually suffers because they would have to care.)

I've often thought that she has NPD, all of the signs are there BIG TIME. She has no sense of empathy at all and has a hard time with social niceties like apologizing, thanking people, and other things like that, to top it all off.

 

[intothewoods]

I know of tons of stories like this. Visit low income areas some time - there's tons of women like that, just like there's tons of men like that.

I know some middle and upper class stay at home moms who refuse to do housework because they're raising children. Housework? Pfft, they're not maids.

I don't think it's a real epidemic though, at any income level.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I've often thought that she has NPD, all of the signs are there BIG TIME. She has no sense of empathy at all and has a hard time with social niceties like apologizing, thanking people, and other things like that, to top it all off.

Whatever the causes, it's a tough situation for the people around her... I do understand.

But please don't equate the habits of an extremely disabled mentality with the ambitions of other humans who just happen to have some of the same defining genital characteristics, okay? Your mom is not an example of feminist women. Your dad made his decision to accommodate her, for whatever reason he did. That does not make other men who accommodate their non-traditional female partners in non-traditional ways "emasculated" or "unfortunate" or any other form of unmanliness you think of heaping on them.

(I can't untangle that sentence!)

 

[graceanne]

I know some middle and upper class stay at home moms who refuse to do housework because they're raising children. Housework? Pfft, they're not maids.

I don't think it's a real epidemic though, at any income level.

Yeah, the kind of messes I'm thinking of rarely happens in those socioeconomic levels, mostly cause of 'what would the neighbors think'? We had a neighbor once who, when they moved out, the managers had to tear out all the walls and flooring. The floors because the cats had used every area of the house for a litter box (poop literally piled up to your knees) and the walls because of the stench and the bugs that were a result of the shit mess.

BTW, I'm not talking about hoarders, which is a form of obsessive compulsive disorder.

 

[satindesire]

Whatever the causes, it's a tough situation for the people around her... I do understand.

But please don't equate the habits of an extremely disabled mentality with the ambitions of other humans who just happen to have some of the same defining genital characteristics, okay? Your mom is not an example of feminist women. Your dad made his decision to accommodate her, for whatever reason he did. That does not make other men who accommodate their non-traditional female partners in non-traditional ways "emasculated" or "unfortunate" or any other form of unmanliness you think of heaping on them.

(I can't untangle that sentence!)

*blink* I never said that she was a feminist woman, you're taking what I'm saying way out of context. Me talking about my mom actually had nothing to do with her being a 'feminist', I was only sharing the fact that my mother was a classic textbook example of bad motherhood and how it affected my dad and myself. I could care less about manliness when it comes to other men, or what their choices are, it's none of my business who does what chore behind their living room doors.

Geeze.

 

[Stella_Omega]

*blink* I never said that she was a feminist woman, you're taking what I'm saying way out of context. Me talking about my mom actually had nothing to do with her being a 'feminist', I was only sharing the fact that my mother was a classic textbook example of bad motherhood and how it affected my dad and myself. I could care less about manliness when it comes to other men, or what their choices are, it's none of my business who does what chore behind their living room doors.

Geeze.

You were responding to Netzach and her description of her partnership, so the context got lost.

ETA:

omigod I can be such a dick sometimes! you were responding to Etoile!

*foot lodged behind teeth*

 

[satindesire]

You were responding to Netzach and her description of her partnership, so the context got lost.

ETA:

omigod I can be such a dick sometimes! you were responding to Etoile!

*foot lodged behind teeth*

Totally over it. No big deal. Thanks for the PM head's up BTW.

 

[BiBunny]

I've often thought that she has NPD, all of the signs are there BIG TIME. She has no sense of empathy at all and has a hard time with social niceties like apologizing, thanking people, and other things like that, to top it all off.

Sounds like it. My mother is a fairly textbook case herself, and my grandmother doubly so. The problem with narcissists is they're rarely diagnosed because, hey, there's nothing wrong with them. They don't need therapy. It's you that has the problem.

/bitterness

 

[Stella_Omega]

Sounds like it. My mother is a fairly textbook case herself, and my grandmother doubly so. The problem with narcissists is they're rarely diagnosed because, hey, there's nothing wrong with them. They don't need therapy. It's you that has the problem.

/bitterness

Yup. And eventually-- you do.