You just bought Literotica...what do you change?

[Bramblethorn]

Good to know. I was unaware. His stories may have depicted people younger than sixteen- I will consult legal experts and follow their advice.

They did, and I expect the further a site gets into under-age territory the more likely it is that a court would find the content to be obscene. Just noting that the location of the server doesn't count for much; from what I can tell, as soon as an FBI agent downloads that material, the site owner is considered to have transported it interstate.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I suspect that the better writers get more 1 bombs and that an exceptional writer, like Melissa Baby, gets heaps more. Any research done on that?

Well, thank you for that. From what others have said about their experiences, I'd say that in the early stages of voting on a new story, my pattern of one bombs is not unusual. But while with most stories the scoring tends to settle down after a day or two, those that make the top list will continue to get bombed for a while.

Something to ponder: which does more damage, a one bomb that keeps a story from getting a red H, or one that knocks a story of the top list?

 

[MelissaBaby]

Yup, I certainly don't recall that one being short on story.

Ironically, I had it planned as a trilogy, with the forest fire being the centerpiece of the second chapter. But because I thought the storyline was light, I moved it to part one, and made the series a two parter. (So far, anyway, there might be a third someday)

 

[AchtungNight]

Well, thank you for that. From what others have said about their experiences, I'd say that in the early stages of voting on a new story, my pattern of one bombs is not unusual. But while with most stories the scoring tends to settle down after a day or two, those that make the top list will continue to get bombed for a while.

Something to ponder: which does more damage, a one bomb that keeps a story from getting a red H, or one that knocks a story of the top list?

The problem with me is, my confidence levels cannot deal with even a brief period of one bombing. I’m not patient enough for recovery and I don’t seem to get enough votes to make it happen regardless. So it’s just easier to lock out downvotes along with upvotes. I know I did well for my imagined audience and that’s fine. I don’t rate any stories I read below 4, if I choose to read them.

I rated the first chapter of “Ranger Ramona” a five. If you want I can go back and give specific feedback by comment. Please let me know. The second chapter is on my reading list. I hope to get to it soon.

 

[MelissaBaby]

The problem with me is, my confidence levels cannot deal with even a brief period of one bombing. I’m not patient enough for recovery and I don’t seem to get enough votes to make it happen regardless. So it’s just easier to lock out downvotes along with upvotes. I know I did well for my imagined audience and that’s fine. I don’t rate any stories I read below 4, if I choose to read them.

I rated the first chapter of “Ranger Ramona” a five. If you want I can go back and give specific feedback by comment. Please let me know. The second chapter is on my reading list. I hope to get to it soon.

It's your Lit experience, you should do whatever makes it work for you, and while others can explain why your approach would not be right for them, no one should judge you for it.

I would be delighted to read your comments, of course.

 

[AchtungNight]

They did, and I expect the further a site gets into under-age territory the more likely it is that a court would find the content to be obscene. Just noting that the location of the server doesn't count for much; from what I can tell, as soon as an FBI agent downloads that material, the site owner is considered to have transported it interstate.

Makes sense to me. I have a connection to MrDouble in that his site was one of my first online sources of internet erotica. I was aware of the obscene items there but never read them. A version of the story “All in the Family” featuring characters age 16 was as close as I got. I never want to go beyond that. And IRL I would never want to date anyone below age 20 or lacking a mature body and open mind. If the FBI doubts my sincerity, they’re welcome to visit me in person and discuss the matter. I’m as ready to meet them as Kratos was to meet Odin.

 

[ronde]

That's way off. If a story has an average of 5.0 off 50 votes, a single 1 will drop that by 0.08; if it was on 4.0, a single 1 will still drop it by 0.06.

I don't know how I got that number unless it was the wine I was drinking at the time. You're right, but even those drops aren't very significant unless you're on the ragged edge of the red H. If a story is rated as 4.5 with 50 votes and you get an additional 5, 1 votes, the rating does drop to 4.2. That's still a pretty good rating since a lot of voters hold back the coveted 5 for a story they think is special for some reason. My point was that it's not like you get a handful of 1 votes and that drops the rating from a 5 to a 3 or from a 4 to a 2.

That's why I don't think knowing each vote would be particularly useful. If your story has all 4's and 5's except for a few 1's, would you try to write the next story in an attempt to change those 1 votes to 4 or 5 votes? You'd maybe find out what some reader didn't like in a comment, but the comments would probably follow the voting. There would just be fewer comments than votes, so you might get 1 comment out of 10 that would tell you why you got those 1 votes. I think rather than obsessing over how many 1 votes an author might or might not have gotten, it's a lot more productive and relaxing to just keep writing what you like to write.

 

[SimonDoom]

Makes sense to me. I have a connection to MrDouble in that his site was one of my first online sources of internet erotica. I was aware of the obscene items there but never read them. A version of the story “All in the Family” featuring characters age 16 was as close as I got. I never want to go beyond that. And IRL I would never want to date anyone below age 20 or lacking a mature body and open mind. If the FBI doubts my sincerity, they’re welcome to visit me in person and discuss the matter. I’m as ready to meet them as Kratos was to meet Odin.

According to the articles about the MrDouble case, the content was the most extreme of the extreme. Extreme sexual abuse of young children, even infants, including illustrations of children. I very much doubt that consensual high school-age "coming of age" type stories would be a problem, if that's what you are trying to include by lowering the age to 16. There are many, many stories of that type on other sites and I'm not aware of them ever being the subject of criminal prosecutions.

I have no ethical quarrel with stories of this type, but I'd think long and hard about lowering the age from 18 for prudential reasons. The climate today is less tolerant about Internet content than it was 20 years ago. I'd be cautious about going below 18 purely because of the unwelcome attention it might draw to do so.

 

[ronde]

Well, thank you for that. From what others have said about their experiences, I'd say that in the early stages of voting on a new story, my pattern of one bombs is not unusual. But while with most stories the scoring tends to settle down after a day or two, those that make the top list will continue to get bombed for a while.

Something to ponder: which does more damage, a one bomb that keeps a story from getting a red H, or one that knocks a story of the top list?

The only damage is to the writer's ego, and that depends upon why you write at all. I think some new authors crave that red H because it's sort of a rite of passage. The red H says you can write what readers want to read. Some authors love being at the top of the story list. That tells them they're the best of the best of the best. That's fine and either is probably severe blow to them. I write because it's relaxing and let's me live a life through some of my characters that I couldn't live otherwise. If readers like my stories, I'm happy, but I'm also happy if I think I've done a good job of writing the story even if some readers have a different opinion.

 

[ronde]

According to the articles about the MrDouble case, the content was the most extreme of the extreme. Extreme sexual abuse of young children, even infants, including illustrations of children. I very much doubt that consensual high school-age "coming of age" type stories would be a problem, if that's what you are trying to include by lowering the age to 16. There are many, many stories of that type on other sites and I'm not aware of them ever being the subject of criminal prosecutions.

I have no ethical quarrel with stories of this type, but I'd think long and hard about lowering the age from 18 for prudential reasons. The climate today is less tolerant about Internet content than it was 20 years ago. I'd be cautious about going below 18 purely because of the unwelcome attention it might draw to do so.

I have often wished I could write about the experience of discovering sex at an age under 18 because the statistics say most of us do to one extent or another. It a time of life for exploration and learning to understand relationships. I also have no wish to have my name appear in the news, so I refrain even though there are sites that do allow that sort of content.

I think the reason for the change in attitude is only because the Internet has made it much easier to find those who are very into sex involving children. The problem has been around forever. Before the Internet, it was confined to personal meetings and the US Mail, still illegal but a lot harder to detect. Now, it's out there for anyone to see if you know where to look, and that makes it relatively easy to track down.

 

[djrip]

I have often wished I could write about the experience of discovering sex at an age under 18 because the statistics say most of us do to one extent or another. It a time of life for exploration and learning to understand relationships. I also have no wish to have my name appear in the news, so I refrain even though there are sites that do allow that sort of content.

I think the reason for the change in attitude is only because the Internet has made it much easier to find those who are very into sex involving children. The problem has been around forever. Before the Internet, it was confined to personal meetings and the US Mail, still illegal but a lot harder to detect. Now, it's out there for anyone to see if you know where to look, and that makes it relatively easy to track down.

I guess I'm lucky; I could write my real first time as a lit story

 

[MelissaBaby]

The only damage is to the writer's ego, and that depends upon why you write at all. I think some new authors crave that red H because it's sort of a rite of passage. The red H says you can write what readers want to read. Some authors love being at the top of the story list. That tells them they're the best of the best of the best. That's fine and either is probably severe blow to them. I write because it's relaxing and let's me live a life through some of my characters that I couldn't live otherwise. If readers like my stories, I'm happy, but I'm also happy if I think I've done a good job of writing the story even if some readers have a different opinion.

It does damage to the stories visibility. Having a red H or being on a top list helps to attract readers. If I did not want an audience, I'd keep my stories to myself, or only share them with friends.

 

[GrushaVashnadze]

I admit to not having read all preceding ten pages of suggestions, but I do note that the mere fact that we are able and permitted to discuss changes (even if imaginary ones) to Literotica is a good indication of how healthy, overall, the atmosphere is already on this site. On Another Site, criticising the status quo is prohibited; those that do find their posts deleted, and themselves attacked by the rent-a-mob; the mods are petrified of saying anything out of line, lest they get kicked out; and writers are scared of criticising the status quo lest it deleteriously affect their standing with the mods and judges. So, all in all, well done Lit for enabling an atmosphere where discussion, conversation, debate and even criticism can flourish.

 

[AchtungNight]

I have often wished I could write about the experience of discovering sex at an age under 18 because the statistics say most of us do to one extent or another. It a time of life for exploration and learning to understand relationships. I also have no wish to have my name appear in the news, so I refrain even though there are sites that do allow that sort of content.

I think the reason for the change in attitude is only because the Internet has made it much easier to find those who are very into sex involving children. The problem has been around forever. Before the Internet, it was confined to personal meetings and the US Mail, still illegal but a lot harder to detect. Now, it's out there for anyone to see if you know where to look, and that makes it relatively easy to track down.

The issue described by the above poster has always been an issue and always will be. There is no escaping it. I have already written such a story with multiple characters based on celebrities who eroticized themselves in the media long before I wrote about them, with their own consent. Witness my story on Literotica “The Rendezvous”.

I do not plan to get as crazy depraved as Mr. Double was. I’m not him. I’m an ethical slut and I hope I will always be acceptable to the higher powers about whose opinions I care.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I don't know how I got that number unless it was the wine I was drinking at the time. You're right, but even those drops aren't very significant unless you're on the ragged edge of the red H. If a story is rated as 4.5 with 50 votes and you get an additional 5, 1 votes, the rating does drop to 4.2. That's still a pretty good rating since a lot of voters hold back the coveted 5 for a story they think is special for some reason. My point was that it's not like you get a handful of 1 votes and that drops the rating from a 5 to a 3 or from a 4 to a 2.

For writers who care about toplist or contest placement, that kind of drop is huge. As Melissa's mentioned, toplists draw a lot of readers, and contests have actual money at stake.

For Lesbian Sex (just picking as an example because that's where I usually publish), the current top-rated story is on 4.95 (disregarding a couple of 5.0s that look like glitches). Dropping that by 0.08 would push it down to about #150 on the list, and it'd take about eighty more five-star votes to cancel out the impact of a single 1. (For any given score, the exact calculation is (score-1)/(5-score).)

That's why I don't think knowing each vote would be particularly useful. If your story has all 4's and 5's except for a few 1's, would you try to write the next story in an attempt to change those 1 votes to 4 or 5 votes? You'd maybe find out what some reader didn't like in a comment, but the comments would probably follow the voting. There would just be fewer comments than votes, so you might get 1 comment out of 10 that would tell you why you got those 1 votes. I think rather than obsessing over how many 1 votes an author might or might not have gotten, it's a lot more productive and relaxing to just keep writing what you like to write.

I do agree that a lot of writers would probably be happier if they focussed less on their scores. But even without the money/visibility angle, many people are competitive and don't like the idea that somebody else might be getting unfair advantages. I don't think that aspect of human nature's changing in a hurry.

 

[TxRad]

I'd leave the place alone except for more staff to clean up the software and to give Laurel some help and maybe a day off.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Nailed it first blow.

I'd leave the place alone except for more staff to clean up the software and to give Laurel some help and maybe a day off.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

The guy who ran the MrDouble site had those stories hosted on a server in the Netherlands. He was still convicted and jailed by a US court for violating US obscenity law with regard to those stories.

I doubt that stories with 16yo's was part of that case. I also doubt from experiencing that one site I had mentioned, that there would've been any stories with 16yo's unless they were probably lusting younger youts. Lit's one of probably two sites I've ran across that has an 18+ rule. Most of them don't, a few of the ePublishers don't either. 16 is age of consent in the usa in a few states, such as mine and Indiana just across the river. 17 I think is average. The outliers-- or I should say Lit states are Cali(because of porn production), New York and New Jersey, are 18.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Makes sense to me. I have a connection to MrDouble in that his site was one of my first online sources of internet erotica. I was aware of the obscene items there but never read them. A version of the story “All in the Family” featuring characters age 16 was as close as I got. I never want to go beyond that. And IRL I would never want to date anyone below age 20 or lacking a mature body and open mind. If the FBI doubts my sincerity, they’re welcome to visit me in person and discuss the matter.

This is not something you want to be inviting upon yourself. Really, really, not.

I know a guy who got that kind of "personal visit" from the FBI, after being mistaken for a criminal. Even for somebody who was 100% innocent, it's the kind of thing that wrecks lives and occasionally ends them.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I doubt that stories with 16yo's was part of that case. I also doubt from experiencing that one site I had mentioned, that there would've been any stories with 16yo's unless they were probably lusting younger youts. Lit's one of probably two sites I've ran across that has an 18+ rule. Most of them don't, a few of the ePublishers don't either. 16 is age of consent in the usa in a few states, such as mine and Indiana just across the river. 17 I think is average. The outliers-- or I should say Lit states are Cali(because of porn production), New York and New Jersey, are 18.

My point there wasn't about what age is and isn't safe territory for erotic stories. It was about the fact that if you do find yourself on the wrong side of wherever a court happens to draw that line, hosting it outside the USA isn't going to save you.

 

[AchtungNight]

This is not something you want to be inviting upon yourself. Really, really, not.

I know a guy who got that kind of "personal visit" from the FBI, after being mistaken for a criminal. Even for somebody who was 100% innocent, it's the kind of thing that wrecks lives and occasionally ends them.

[deep breath]

I believe I’m up to the challenge, so help me God.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

I admit to not having read all preceding ten pages of suggestions, but I do note that the mere fact that we are able and permitted to discuss changes (even if imaginary ones) to Literotica is a good indication of how healthy, overall, the atmosphere is already on this site. On Another Site, criticising the status quo is prohibited; those that do find their posts deleted, and themselves attacked by the rent-a-mob; the mods are petrified of saying anything out of line, lest they get kicked out; and writers are scared of criticising the status quo lest it deleteriously affect their standing with the mods and judges. So, all in all, well done Lit for enabling an atmosphere where discussion, conversation, debate and even criticism can flourish.

I don't really have any complaints about this site, like that. I'm still waiting for my fucking avatar approval, but other than that... not much. I'm used to the things I don't like, I choose to deal with it, like everybody else, or we wouldn't be here. When you're under my roof and all that...

 

[M_K_Babalon]

[deep breath]

I believe I’m up to the challenge, so help me God.

You're not even up to the challenge of story votes. Come off it, my guy.

 

[Bramblethorn]

[deep breath]

I believe I’m up to the challenge, so help me God.

Just to be clear, the process isn't that they knock on your door, you have a nice chat with them over a cup of tea and explain your innocence, and they go away.

The process is that they smash down your door in the small hours of the night, throw a few flash-bang grenades in, restrain you and your housemates in an ungentle manner, trash the house and contents just in case you've hidden a memory stick inside your kid's teddy bear, and haul away anything electronic as "evidence", unlikely ever to be returned.

That's the good scenario. There are others.

 

[AchtungNight]

Just to be clear, the process isn't that they knock on your door, you have a nice chat with them over a cup of tea and explain your innocence, and they go away.

The process is that they smash down your door in the small hours of the night, throw a few flash-bang grenades in, restrain you and your housemates in an ungentle manner, trash the house and contents just in case you've hidden a memory stick inside your kid's teddy bear, and haul away anything electronic as "evidence", unlikely ever to be returned.

That's the good scenario. There are others.

I am aware of law enforcement tactics, yes. I am not lying when I say I am an honor graduate of a police academy.