2009 Survivor Poetry Challenge: Workshop

[Safe_Bet]

I have some questions about this one, as much for the other contestants as for Lauren:

The Tempest, Reimagined
The only way to a woman's heart is along the path of torment.
—D. A. F. de Sade

Once, in a kingdom by the sea
On a strange, indifferent shore,
Rough magic ruled by king's decree.

Enforced by spirit's guarantee
Inhabitants would serve the lord,
Once in his kingdom by the sea.

For she, blithe spirit, was not free
Herself but bound to be his whore
(Rough magic ruled this king's decree)

And Ariel, the bourgeoisie
Made trip to rhythms she abhorred,
Once in this kingdom by the sea.

Shipwrecked usurpers nor were free
But taken, taunted, tortured, for
Rough magic ruled here. King's decree.

Though "King" was simply cher Marquis,
His staff a crop, his tastes hardcore.
Once, in a kingdom by the sea,
Rough magic ruled, by king's decree.​

First of all, just to double-check, does this qualify as a villanelle?

Second, I originally used trigger 28 (the phrase "in a kingdom by the sea") for this but just out of curiosity, would it satisfy trigger 42 ("write a poem that reinvents a popular fairy tale")? The larger question is what qualifies as a "popular fairy tale" and how much does one need to do to "reinvent" it?

Third question: If I happen to use a trigger (like 28) but later decide that I want to post the poem under a different trigger (say, 9, if I happened to use the word "neverending" in the poem), I can do that, can't I? It wouldn't mean that I could not use trigger 28 in a different poem, would it?

Thanks in advance.

I'll leave the V question to the V Sluts...

I think it certainly meets the requirements for either trigger. Undoubtedly "Little Mermaid" qualifies as a "popular fairy tale" and a BDSM Ariel kicking it with the Marquis de Sade sure as HELL would count as "reinvention". Wait till I read that story to my kids tonight! Muahahahaha!!!

I am pretty sure that nothing REALLY counts till the Challenge is closed. I know edits can be made and, to me, changing trigger in a submitted poem is an edit.

P.S. Love the poem.

 

[pushkine]

I think it certainly meets the requirements for either trigger. Undoubtedly "Little Mermaid" qualifies as a "popular fairy tale" and a BDSM Ariel kicking it with the Marquis de Sade sure as HELL would count as "reinvention". Wait till I read that story to my kids tonight! Muahahahaha!!!

I'm kind of embarrassed. I meant the poem to be about Shakespeare's The Tempest, in which Ariel is the spirit bound to do the bidding of Prospero. (Near the end of the play, one of Prospero's lines is "This rough magic I here abjure.") Why I was asking the question about whether it qualified as reimagining a fairy tale, as it's fantastical, but not exactly what I would normally think of as a fairy tale.

It didn't occur to me that Ariel is also the name of the mermaid in the Disney movie.

Oh, well. I've been stupid before and undoubtedly will be again. I guess it works either way you interpret it, then. (The poem, not the fairy tale part.)

I am pretty sure that nothing REALLY counts till the Challenge is closed. I know edits can be made and, to me, changing trigger in a submitted poem is an edit.

That's what I would think, but I thought I should ask.

P.S. Love the poem.

Thank you, both for the compliment and insuring I can never view that cartoon quite the same way again.

 

[Safe_Bet]

I'm kind of embarrassed. I meant the poem to be about Shakespeare's The Tempest, in which Ariel is the spirit bound to do the bidding of Prospero. (Near the end of the play, one of Prospero's lines is "This rough magic I here abjure.") Why I was asking the question about whether it qualified as reimagining a fairy tale, as it's fantastical, but not exactly what I would normally think of as a fairy tale.

Doh! *best Homer voice from the English Lit Major who obviously slept through Shakespeare...*

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Have I got this right please?and if not why not lol?

Higgledy-piggledy
Lady Godiva, she
Tossed off her clothing, left
Nothing but hair.

Ostentatiously
Rode down the highway
Poor Tom came peeping
To see her thighs bare.

 

[pushkine]

Have I got this right please?and if not why not lol?

Higgledy-piggledy
Lady Godiva, she
Tossed off her clothing, left
Nothing but hair.

Ostentatiously
Rode down the highway
Poor Tom came peeping
To see her thighs bare.

Lauren is arbiter on all things Survivor, but in my opinion, you're close but not quite right.

The first stanza is fine, I think.

The word "ostentatiously," though, is not double dactylic. The accent is wrong and, in any case, it only has five syllables, so it can't be double dactylic (a dactyl is composed of three syllables, so two dactyls are six syllables, with the proper stresses). "Unostentatiously" might fly, but it reverses your meaning and, though I could hear it accented correctly, the dictionary disagrees.

I'd suggest a neologism (which are, I think, pretty common in double dactyls) like "underenclothedly" which (again, I think) would satisfy both your intended meaning and the rhythmic requirement.

"Rode down the highway" is short an unstressed syllable at the end. You might simply make it "Rode down the highway, she" which I think makes it OK.

The final two lines merely need a slight tweak to make them good: move the "To" from the last line up to the penultimate line and it's good. So, something like this, for the whole thing:

Higgledy-piggledy
Lady Godiva, she
Tossed off her clothing, left
Nothing but hair.

Underenclothedly <-- Insert a double dactylic word of your choosing.
Rode down the highway, she.
Poor Tom came peeping to
See her thighs bare.

Others may have different opinions and, almost assuredly, different suggestions. But, as always, Lauren decides.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Thankyou will tweak it tomorrow night all

 

[pushkine]

I'm very unsure about this one, and want Lauren's approval before posting. It is supposed to be a Glosa (I think I got that right, but of course am open to anyone telling me I'm wrong about that), using trigger 39 ("Write a poem about your secret pleasure.")

Any comments are welcome.

Cidade de Maravilha

There's the hill of Kerosene,
....And the hill of the Skeleton,
The hill of Astonishment,
....And the hill of Babylon.
—Elizabeth Bishop

There's the hill of Kerosene:
....Oily, yellowed, flammable,
A lamp-light we must never need
....Illuminating table.

And the hill of the Skeleton,
....Its random, ossuary pile
Of bleached, unneeded calcium.
....If ground, more versatile.

The hill of Astonishment
....Is not one I believe.
Those survey parties that were lost
....I cannot grieve.

And the hill of Babylon,
....Where I with tongue will feed,
As burglar, perhaps killer,
....Wild in generic need.


.

 

[Angeline]

I'm very unsure about this one, and want Lauren's approval before posting. It is supposed to be a Glosa (I think I got that right, but of course am open to anyone telling me I'm wrong about that), using trigger 39 ("Write a poem about your secret pleasure.")

Any comments are welcome.

Cidade de Maravilha

There's the hill of Kerosene,
....And the hill of the Skeleton,
The hill of Astonishment,
....And the hill of Babylon.
—Elizabeth Bishop

There's the hill of Kerosene:
....Oily, yellowed, flammable,
A lamp-light we must never need
....Illuminating table.

And the hill of the Skeleton,
....Its random, ossuary pile
Of bleached, unneeded calcium.
....If ground, more versatile.

The hill of Astonishment
....Is not one I believe.
Those survey parties that were lost
....I cannot grieve.

And the hill of Babylon,
....Where I with tongue will feed,
As burglar, perhaps killer,
....Wild in generic need.


.

Your glosa is absolutely fine as far as I can tell. I've written quite a few of them (the sample glosa Lauren used is one of mine), and you've done what I understand the form and the theme need to do: you've repeated each line from the text in staves that both explain/expand on the text and describe secret pleasures. I think this is a fairly forgiving form and the themes in the challenge seem open to (poetic) interpretation to my thinking.

I don't see that Lauren could have any problems with it but she'll be around in the morning, I'm sure.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I think that's an excellent glosa. The title sounded a little off to me on and I couldn't quite understand why. In Portuguese, it would be much more common to use the expression in the plural, Cidade de Maravilhas, even if there were only one wonder in town. Other than that, I wouldn't change a thing.

As for the other things posted while I was asleep, I think they have all been responded to appropriately already.

 

[pushkine]

I think that's an excellent glosa. The title sounded a little off to me on and I couldn't quite understand why. In Portuguese, it would be much more common to use the expression in the plural, Cidade de Maravilhas, even if there were only one wonder in town. Other than that, I wouldn't change a thing.

I took the title from a website about Rio de Janeiro, and it either was wrong there or I copied it wrong.

Thank you. I will make that change.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I took the title from a website about Rio de Janeiro, and it either was wrong there or I copied it wrong.

Thank you. I will make that change.

OK, now I get the reference. It's neither what you had - de Maravilha - nor what I said - de Maravilhas. Rio is known as Cidade Maravilhosa.

 

[pushkine]

OK, now I get the reference. It's neither what you had - de Maravilha - nor what I said - de Maravilhas. Rio is known as Cidade Maravilhosa.

Yes, I've seen that too. I prefer "City of Marvels," if I've got that correct now, as it fits better with my intentions about the poem, which isn't about Rio at all. Bishop mentions Rio in the poem, is why I went there, but it wasn't intended to necessarily evoke Rio. It just seemed an apt title.

I'd like to leave the title in Portuguese, as that leaves a little hint of the source of the mote and, darn it, just reads cooler than "City of Marvels."

So if "Cidade de Maravilhas" translates as "City of Marvels," that's what I would prefer.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

So if "Cidade de Maravilhas" translates as "City of Marvels," that's what I would prefer.

Thanks for your help.

That's what it is. You're welcome.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Please check this Haiku. My question is if it sufficently meets the criteria of "to contrast and compare, implicitly, two events, images, or situation."

Winter grass freezes;
Forgotten seed immobile
Waiting for the rain.

Trigger 34 (Theme #2 - poem about abnormal weather) / Form G (Haiku)

I believe that it meets the syllabic (5-7-5), line number (3) and seasonal (winter & freezes) criteria and because I live in SoCal, "rain" constitutes "abnormal" weather!

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Not sure if seed is allowed to wait or forget ask Lady she steered me through it

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

LOL

no, technically seed would not be allowed to wait.

Haiku is a snapshot of nature. Things forgotten and things waited for pretty much violate the spirit of haiku. Plus, there's no anthropomorhpism allowed in haiku. When writing haiku, you are really describing just one moment in time and allowing the reader to form their own meaning to it.

 

[Safe_Bet]

LOL

no, technically seed would not be allowed to wait.

Haiku is a snapshot of nature. Things forgotten and things waited for pretty much violate the spirit of haiku. Plus, there's no anthropomorhpism allowed in haiku. When writing haiku, you are really describing just one moment in time and allowing the reader to form their own meaning to it.

eeer, I'm still thinking about the waiting part, but "forgotten seed"? That is no different than if I said "blue seed" or "apple seed" is it? It's descriptive as opposed to time oriented???

 

[Remec]

eeer, I'm still thinking about the waiting part, but "forgotten seed"? That is no different than if I said "blue seed" or "apple seed" is it? It's descriptive as opposed to time oriented???

I think the problem that might arise from the seed (other than the waiting) is that "forgotten" is a subjective descriptor. What one person might view as forgotten another might term as abandoned and someone else might think of as just a seed.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Is this better on the Double Dactyl please ?

Higgledy-piggledy
Lady Godiva, she
Tossed off her clothing, left
Nothing but hair.


Philanthropically
Rode down the highway, she.
Poor Tom came peeping to
See her thighs bare.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

eeer, I'm still thinking about the waiting part, but "forgotten seed"? That is no different than if I said "blue seed" or "apple seed" is it? It's descriptive as opposed to time oriented???

I'm not going to fuss if you want to keep it that way. It's just that "forgotten seed" implies more than the snapshot in time to me. but, it's not like i'm an expert in haiku. and it's not like my haiku are perfect... In my haiku, i included the phrase "suppression of life." Some people probaby consider that as unfit for haiku. In fact, I kinda do. It was something I have flip-flopped over many times.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I thought something forgotten was in the past but I'm not quibbling either !

 

[annaswirls]

how about dormant seed
nothing judgmental about that-- just is, and it is within a snapshot

not sure if rain counts as abnormal.... if the seed is waiting for the rain, it would be a regular occurrence

if the it were summer grass freezing that would be abnormal....and the seed would be as confused as a seed could be... but then again, in summer it would not be dormant, but you get my drift (maybe, I am babbling a bit)

at any rate.... Haiku are difficult. I suggest reading some more of the classics to get the feel and not worry too much about the exact symbol count.

there are some good Haiku threads Jim wrote-- not sure under which lit name-- anyone remember?

Please check this Haiku. My question is if it sufficently meets the criteria of "to contrast and compare, implicitly, two events, images, or situation."

Winter grass freezes;
Forgotten seed immobile
Waiting for the rain.

Trigger 34 (Theme #2 - poem about abnormal weather) / Form G (Haiku)

I believe that it meets the syllabic (5-7-5), line number (3) and seasonal (winter & freezes) criteria and because I live in SoCal, "rain" constitutes "abnormal" weather!

 

[Angeline]

how about dormant seed
nothing judgmental about that-- just is, and it is within a snapshot

not sure if rain counts as abnormal.... if the seed is waiting for the rain, it would be a regular occurrence

if the it were summer grass freezing that would be abnormal....and the seed would be as confused as a seed could be... but then again, in summer it would not be dormant, but you get my drift (maybe, I am babbling a bit)

at any rate.... Haiku are difficult. I suggest reading some more of the classics to get the feel and not worry too much about the exact symbol count.

there are some good Haiku threads Jim wrote-- not sure under which lit name-- anyone remember?

That would be jthserra, remember? And I believe earlier in this thread there are links to his excellent "How To" articles on Haiku and other East Asian forms.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Okay, lets "forget" the "waiting" damn seed freezing it's poor little ass off.

Does this work better for you?

Sere dust abloom;
Desert raindrops
engendering life

BTW, what I'm trying to capture here is on the rare occassion that it rains out in the desert it is FILLED with wild flowers for a day or two.

 

[NorthernPA4U]

Question: on trying to do trigger 4, the Cento using other Lit poets, here's my effort, and I wonder about the change in tense with the word "watched" ... I've looked for something that matches EXACTLY what I want, and have yet to find it. How picky do people get with centoes ? Should I just remove lines 19, 24, and 26 (in your opinion) ?


First Time

In previous months
Engaging conversation
Sparks, sexual attraction
Flirting with wry delight
The tension was rising
I received an invitation
An experience unknown

I start to strip, right there in front of you
Fearful of Your gaze
My stomach's a big knot
A fiery dread fills me
My mouth suddenly parched and dry
Something TERRIBLE will happen
Small
It is humiliating how little
A single tear flows

.Panic.

Hahahhahaah
Watched you laugh
The look on your face
Hands balled into fists
I hear screams
You are out the door
The obscurity surrounds me…

Years later
Here I chat
Still a virgin: afraid of the pain