2009 Survivor Poetry Challenge: Workshop

[pushkine]

May I add to the froth and fluster over Asian forms? I have this one I'm working on:

bad weather

frozen lotus—
......Dennis Quaid,
..stalked by wolves​

Two questions:

1. Is this zappai? (Or if senryu, don't care. It clearly is not haiku. I was trying for zappai.)
2. Is there actually a scene like this in the movie (the wolves stalking Dennis Quaid thing, not the frozen lotus part)? I actually haven't seen the movie, but someone told me about it and I may have misremembered.

Thanks.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

Okay, lets "forget" the "waiting" damn seed freezing it's poor little ass off.

Does this work better for you?

Sere dust abloom;
Desert raindrops
engendering life

BTW, what I'm trying to capture here is on the rare occassion that it rains out in the desert it is FILLED with wild flowers for a day or two.

It's difficult for me to comment on this haiku as I am TOTALLY unfamiliar with deserts. On my trips to Vegas, I love looking out the airplane window over the deserts because it looks like another planet.

"engendering life" might be a problem phase, just like my "suppression of life" probably is. Here is where my lack of knowlege of deserts pose a problem. If the raindrops and the blooming of flowers are occuring in the same moment, then I could see that. Otherwise, it is spanning time, which haiku should not do. Considering you are using "Sere" in the first line, and raindrops in the 2nd, it seems like time must have elapsed. Then, more time must have elapsed for there to be flowers, right? See what I mean?

Tricky, right?

If you want to do one on desert rain, perhaps describing a single moment during the rain only would be best for haiku.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

May I add to the froth and fluster over Asian forms? I have this one I'm working on:

bad weather

frozen lotus—
......Dennis Quaid,
..stalked by wolves​

Two questions:

1. Is this zappai? (Or if senryu, don't care. It clearly is not haiku. I was trying for zappai.)
2. Is there actually a scene like this in the movie (the wolves stalking Dennis Quaid thing, not the frozen lotus part)? I actually haven't seen the movie, but someone told me about it and I may have misremembered.

Thanks.

It fits the zappai requirements well, as far as I know.

I'm not familiar with Dennis Quaid or any movie with him and wolves... and so, totally not sure where frozen lotus comes into play. If they are not directly connected, it may violate the zappai form. I think of zappai, haiku, and senryu as all descriptions of what is present in the moment.

But, again, I am not a haiku expert. Where is Equinoxe or jthserra???

 

[pushkine]

It fits the zappai requirements well, as far as I know.

Thank you. Absent Lauren contradicting you, I'll take that as good.

I'm not familiar with Dennis Quaid or any movie with him and wolves... and so, totally not sure where frozen lotus comes into play. If they are not directly connected, it may violate the zappai form. I think of zappai, haiku, and senryu as all descriptions of what is present in the moment.

"Frozen lotus" has nothing to do with anything, other than to represent an anomalous weather moment. Kind of my "haiku moment," meant ironically, since the poem is pseudo-haiku (a phrase that is itself meant ironically), or zappai.

The movie is The Day After Tomorrow.

As I said, the wolf stuff might be wrong. I haven't seen the movie. I based this on what I had been told about it.

Thanks very much for your comment. You are always very gracious and helpful.

And I definitely do not mean that ironically.

Thanks much.

 

[annaswirls]

sorry for whining

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Is this better on the Double Dactyl please ?

Higgledy-piggledy
Lady Godiva, she
Tossed off her clothing, left
Nothing but hair.


Philanthropically
Rode down the highway, she.
Poor Tom came peeping to
See her thighs bare.

It's quite good. I had to read the 3rd line a couple of times before I was able to see it as a double dactyl, and I can see it now - so, it's at the very least close enough.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Please check this Haiku. My question is if it sufficently meets the criteria of "to contrast and compare, implicitly, two events, images, or situation."

Winter grass freezes;
Forgotten seed immobile
Waiting for the rain.

Trigger 34 (Theme #2 - poem about abnormal weather) / Form G (Haiku)

I believe that it meets the syllabic (5-7-5), line number (3) and seasonal (winter & freezes) criteria and because I live in SoCal, "rain" constitutes "abnormal" weather!

Okay, lets "forget" the "waiting" damn seed freezing it's poor little ass off.

Does this work better for you?

Sere dust abloom;
Desert raindrops
engendering life

BTW, what I'm trying to capture here is on the rare occassion that it rains out in the desert it is FILLED with wild flowers for a day or two.

I think the second poem is much better than the first, for no other reason than that you stopped counting syllables. 5-7-5 syllables is way too much, and the first one didn't look like haiku at all even before you start thinking about content. You're getting good advice already, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Question: on trying to do trigger 4, the Cento using other Lit poets, here's my effort, and I wonder about the change in tense with the word "watched" ... I've looked for something that matches EXACTLY what I want, and have yet to find it. How picky do people get with centoes ? Should I just remove lines 19, 24, and 26 (in your opinion) ?

I think it would be a stronger poem without those lines, to tell you the truth.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

May I add to the froth and fluster over Asian forms? I have this one I'm working on:

bad weather

frozen lotus—
......Dennis Quaid,
..stalked by wolves​

Two questions:

1. Is this zappai? (Or if senryu, don't care. It clearly is not haiku. I was trying for zappai.)
2. Is there actually a scene like this in the movie (the wolves stalking Dennis Quaid thing, not the frozen lotus part)? I actually haven't seen the movie, but someone told me about it and I may have misremembered.

Thanks.

I'm still laughing. It's a great zappai, and the frozen lotus line is priceless.

I remember watching the movie, and there were definitely wolves stralking Dennis Quaid's character's son. Not sure about Dennis Quaid himself, but probably happened too, towards the end.

 

[NorthernPA4U]

I think it would be a stronger poem without those lines, to tell you the truth.

I thought so, too, after I actually wrote them.


I might as well ask for feedback on my Rondeau, as well ... trigger 46.

I liked the poem much better if I didn't focus as much on what the babies looked like, but the parents in the pictures ... but is it too far away from the trigger? I don't want to cheat. Well, not badly, anyway.

Plus, I know it says 8 or 10 syllables, and the last line of the quintet is nine unless you slide over one syllable of "families," but I liked that better than replacing it with "lives" or something else, plus a filler word, but ... if it were you, would you entirely rewrite that line?


Baby Pictures of Famous Dictators

A click, and flash! One April morn
Young Shicklgruber just now born,
His mother beamed. Who could foresee
That Adolph's future history
Includes so many families torn?

Mao's parents felt no need to mourn,
And Stalin's mother's face, not shorn
Of joy that day. Photography ...
A click, and flash!

Young women soon to feel the scorn,
Yet at these births sweet smiles adorn
Their faces. Photos show them free
Of fear of what their sons may be
Some day. What pose would you have worn?
A click, and flash!

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Is this Cinquain Crapsey's or just cinquain crappy?

Refine
Hold and then stem
Yesterdays memory
Murmur as if to speak will catch
Each ear

 

[annaswirls]

it is right on target with the trigger. I don't know about Rondeau, I have not written one yet-- will look after boys are in bed.

I thought so, too, after I actually wrote them.


I might as well ask for feedback on my Rondeau, as well ... trigger 46.

I liked the poem much better if I didn't focus as much on what the babies looked like, but the parents in the pictures ... but is it too far away from the trigger? I don't want to cheat. Well, not badly, anyway.

Plus, I know it says 8 or 10 syllables, and the last line of the quintet is nine unless you slide over one syllable of "families," but I liked that better than replacing it with "lives" or something else, plus a filler word, but ... if it were you, would you entirely rewrite that line?


Baby Pictures of Famous Dictators

A click, and flash! One April morn
Young Shicklgruber just now born,
His mother beamed. Who could foresee
That Adolph's future history
Includes so many families torn?

Mao's parents felt no need to mourn,
And Stalin's mother's face, not shorn
Of joy that day. Photography ...
A click, and flash!

Young women soon to feel the scorn,
Yet at these births sweet smiles adorn
Their faces. Photos show them free
Of fear of what their sons may be
Some day. What pose would you have worn?
A click, and flash!

 

[annaswirls]

Is this Cinquain Crapsey's or just cinquain crappy?

Refine
Hold and then stem
Yesterdays memory
Murmur as if to speak will catch
Each ear

It seems like the rhythm is off--

"Yesterdays memory" is more like 1,2,3 1,2,3 than 1,2...1,2....1,2 but I could be way off.

Other than that: The wording seems awkward-- "murmur as if to speak will catch each ear." I might be missing something.

I love the phrase "Hold and then stem yesterday's memory"


When I did this form I took both index fingers like a pair of drum sticks and exaggerated the rhythm on my desk

left right
left right left right
left right left right left right
left right!

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I spose it does read funny sigh but its the double acrostic

 

[annaswirls]

I spose it does read funny sigh but its the double acrostic

oh my goodness, I did not even notice the acrostic! You are ambitious!

 

[UnderYourSpell]

oh my goodness, I did not even notice the acrostic! You are ambitious!

The only other ones I have left have millions of lines

 

[annaswirls]

The only other ones I have left have millions of lines

why don't you do the double acrostic trigger as a free choice? Do the cinquain as one of the easier triggers (like a keyword?) It really makes it more than twice as hard trying to do two forms at once. Don't be a poetic masochist!

 

[UnderYourSpell]

why don't you do the double acrostic trigger as a free choice? Do the cinquain as one of the easier triggers (like a keyword?) It really makes it more than twice as hard trying to do two forms at once. Don't be a poetic masochist!

God you mean I would have to write another one?! eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek!

 

[pushkine]

I might as well ask for feedback on my Rondeau, as well ... trigger 46.

I liked the poem much better if I didn't focus as much on what the babies looked like, but the parents in the pictures ... but is it too far away from the trigger? I don't want to cheat. Well, not badly, anyway.

I think of the triggers as inspiration. They are in some way an irritant—one cannot write to just the themes one wants—but, I think (and hope) there is considerable flexibility in what a particular poet is triggered to write about.

They're simply some kind of inspiration, in other words.

I quite like your poem, so good with me. For what that counts.

Plus, I know it says 8 or 10 syllables, and the last line of the quintet is nine unless you slide over one syllable of "families," but I liked that better than replacing it with "lives" or something else, plus a filler word, but ... if it were you, would you entirely rewrite that line?

No. It reads very naturally to me at your intended syllable count. Some words, like "families," are best interpreted on the fly, syllabically.

But, my standard disclaimer: Lauren decides.

 

[annaswirls]

My first double dactyl
scared to submit it, but I don't think I forgot anything???

Hi-diddley Ho-diddley
Itchy and Scratchy with
Violence and comedy
bring the house down.

Anthropomorphically
Show up ‘most weekly with
Pillow-gut, cynical
Krusty the Clown.

 

[annaswirls]

God you mean I would have to write another one?! eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek!

Oh I am sorry! I guess wait for someone who is better at the meter than me to take a look at it?

 

[annaswirls]

I think of the triggers as inspiration. They are in some way an irritant—one cannot write to just the themes one wants—but, I think (and hope) there is considerable flexibility in what a particular poet is triggered to write about.

They're simply some kind of inspiration, in other words.

Amen brother! I know you don't like "dude" but I am hoping you are amenable to brother, at least as brother in verse?

And NPA, I thought the trigger was right on, and pretty sure that Lauren is flexible as any of us with the triggers.

 

[pushkine]

Is this Cinquain Crapsey's or just cinquain crappy?

Refine
Hold and then stem
Yesterdays memory
Murmur as if to speak will catch
Each ear

This is fine with me, as I have a different conception of Crapsey's cinquain than Lauren does. I think of it as syllabic (2-4-6-8-2 syllables per line) rather than iambic (1-2-3-4-1 iambs per line), which adds the complication of stress to the poem.

There are problems with the poem, at least to my ear, if one enforces the iambic strictures. I hear the poem this way:

Refine
Hold and then stem
Yesterdays Memories
Murmur as if to speak will catch
Each ear.​

So, bascially, lines two, three, and four aren't, for me, fully iambic. Line five isn't either, but as spondee, that's previosuly been said to be OK.

But, I'm just one guy. I think the iambic requirement is not necessarily correct in any case. I've read things that say Crapsey's cinquain is syllabic, not iambic.

It's Lauren's decision, in any case.

I quite like this poem. It has a kind of mystery about it. (I am not paying attention to the acrostic component at all, by the way. That's just gravy.) "Murmur as if to speak will catch" is an oddly beautiful line.

You need to correct the punctuation, though, in my opinion.

My opinion only, of course.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

help?!

okay, ye sonnet poets--
Please give me feedback on my first attempt at an Italian sonnet:


Wasted years with nominal mastery-
feeling like a fool with motley talent.
Labored aptitude is building lament.
Absent progress long remains my story.

Critical script pervades my history.
Falling short of masters feeds torment.
Others run freely. I wade through cement.
Internal peace remains a mystery.

Compliments negate self-hate for a time-
self-defeating game of woven fetters
challenged. Skills once ridiculed now sublime

like starlight piercing winter solstice rhyme
alters. I am of my biggest debtors
owing patience and faith that I can climb

 

[annaswirls]

I am not a sonnet poet, but this is a good opportunity to learn.... by going through the rules with someone elses poem

I took the RULES post and broke it down into parts to make sure all requirements were followed.

1. 14 lines
2. traditionally written in iambic pentameter confused:Not so sure about this, although the Cinquain above I thought was off meter but then again not?)
3. two quatrains and two tercets
4. following a rhyme scheme of abba abba cde cde, abba abba cdc cdc, or abba abba cde dcd.
5. The two quatrains, typically, describe a problem, which is resolved in the two tercets.
6. The 9th line creates a turn (volta) that signals the move from proposition to resolution. I think so...
7. The final line of the final tercet is called golden key, closing and giving meaning to the entire poem. Again, I think so yes!

First attempt, damn good. Thank you for the lesson!

help?!

okay, ye sonnet poets--
Please give me feedback on my first attempt at an Italian sonnet:


Wasted years with nominal mastery-a
feeling like a fool with motley talent.b
Labored aptitude is building lament.b
Absent progress long remains my story.a

Critical script pervades my history.a
Falling short of masters feeds torment.b
Others run freely. I wade through cement.b
Internal peace remains a mystery.a

Compliments negate self-hate for a time-c
self-defeating game of woven fetters d
challenged. Skills once ridiculed now sublime c

like starlight piercing winter solstice rhyme c
alters. I am of my biggest debtors d
owing patience and faith that I can climb c