2009 Survivor Poetry Challenge: Workshop

[LadynStFreknBed]

Weensy problem I had started a Villanelle but Lady has beaten me to it with the same opening line! Don't suppose it matters but I'm not cribbing honest!
Lauren did you happen to notice my question about the audio? perhaps I should PM you

Having the same poem with the same form is not a problem at all. Now, if your villanelle references my stillborn twin and gay father, then I'm going to get suspicious....

LOL

 

[UnderYourSpell]

OK, in just experimenting ... recognizing that some of the triggers are going to make it hard to incorporate the emotional depth generally seen in some of these forms ... I decided to experiment with an English sonnet and trigger #24.

I'm not sure I want to use this as my sonnet submission, but would people agree it meets the metric and rhyming patterns, and that the third quatrain does indeed introduce a change in tone? Would you say the closing couplet does recap the theme of the poem in a "fresh new look" as was described in the form recaps?

And is it explicit enough as a point of view of a nosy neighbor? Maybe not.

Forgive a poetry newbie, please,
for my many insecurities.


As Petunia Peers Out ...

I hear the neighbors arguing again,
They say my house is being watched at night.
I wonder if they talk about us when
Those weirdos from the order are in sight.
My sister once was hurt by creeps like these
Who gather every night, then stare this way,
I know them all, impossible to please,
Relentless in those evil games they play.
Our neighborhood was carefree long ago,
My husband's smile as wide as it could be,
Our own young son had brought to us a glow,
Ecstatic lovers all the world could see.
But then along came Lily's Dumbledore.
The peaceful rest we once had, nevermore.

I don't know enough to comment on the form but the point of view seems to be more of a victims

 

[NorthernPA4U]

I don't know enough to comment on the form but the point of view seems to be more of a victims

Yeah, darn ... I think if I want to keep this poem for the contest, I will have to find a way to incorporate the word "neverending" into it ... which wouldn't actually take way from the tone of the poem.

Maybe change "Relentless in those evil games they play" to "Those neverending evil games they play" or "With neverending evil games to play." What do you think?

Thanks for your opinion.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Weensy problem I had started a Villanelle but Lady has beaten me to it with the same opening line! Don't suppose it matters but I'm not cribbing honest!

That's not a problem.

Lauren did you happen to notice my question about the audio? perhaps I should PM you

I did see it, but forgot to answer, in the middle of all the other things happening. Literotica's guidelines for audio say that you don't need to be the one doing the actual reading/recording. As long as you're the author of the poem, you can have someone else do the recording for you.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Yeah, darn ... I think if I want to keep this poem for the contest, I will have to find a way to incorporate the word "neverending" into it ... which wouldn't actually take way from the tone of the poem.

Maybe change "Relentless in those evil games they play" to "Those neverending evil games they play." Wat do you think?

Thanks for your opinion.

can you not get one of the other words in say cynical or fool? oops just read the rest of what you put yes that could work

 

[NorthernPA4U]

can you not get one of the other words in say cynical or fool? oops just read the rest of what you put yes that could work

Those triggers require all three words, though. Clown and pillow don't fit, for sure.

I might be able to use fool, game, and starlight, using this theme, but it would require a total rewrite.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

OK, in just experimenting ... recognizing that some of the triggers are going to make it hard to incorporate the emotional depth generally seen in some of these forms ... I decided to experiment with an English sonnet and trigger #24.

I'm not sure I want to use this as my sonnet submission, but would people agree it meets the metric and rhyming patterns, and that the third quatrain does indeed introduce a change in tone? Would you say the closing couplet does recap the theme of the poem in a "fresh new look" as was described in the form recaps?

And is it explicit enough as a point of view of a nosy neighbor? Maybe not.

I think the poem meets all formal requirements pretty well, including the volta and the final couplet. As for the trigger, I would definitely consider it close enough. It's up to you to decide if you're happy with it, or if you want to flesh-out the nosy neighbour concept a bit more.

 

[NorthernPA4U]

I think the poem meets all formal requirements pretty well, including the volta and the final couplet. As for the trigger, I would definitely consider it close enough. It's up to you to decide if you're happy with it, or if you want to flesh-out the nosy neighbour concept a bit more.

I like the poem well enough as a first attempt at a sonnet, and prefer the use of "relentless" to "neverending" ...

If it were a contest strictly based on quality rather than quantity I might do a rewrite, but I could change this in the future to a free-form and do a serious sonnet later on, if it will pass muster with one of the triggers.

 

[NorthernPA4U]

So, Villanelle experts, is there a particular meter that has to appear? Or is it just that the same meter has to appear in every line?

For example, would these be acceptable first triplets? (I know I have to work on the content.)

So perfectly motionless, perfectly behaved ...
She trusts my demands of her, giving me her soul,
My dominance always assured, her life enslaved.

My every need met for me, ever so depraved,
She always is there to please, under my control,
So perfectly motionless, perfectly behaved.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

This is a topic I have looked at before. Guides to modern villanelles usually say that the minimum requirement for villanelle is just a syllabic (syllabolic?) meter- that each line has the same number of syllables.

If Lauren wants the villanelles to follow a higher standard, then I'll just count mine that posted today as a free choice.

As far as I know, your stanza is fine.

 

[Safe_Bet]

This is a topic I have looked at before. Guides to modern villanelles usually say that the minimum requirement for villanelle is just a syllabic (syllabolic?) meter- that each line has the same number of syllables.

If Lauren wants the villanelles to follow a higher standard, then I'll just count mine that posted today as a free choice.

As far as I know, your stanza is fine.

Regardless of what Lauren decides, you are still THE Villanelle Slut!

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Found someone willing to have stab at my audio for me just got to write it now!

 

[UnderYourSpell]

In the explanation of the Rondeau it says each line 8 to 10 syllables but the example given doesn't go above 7 per line and neither do mine! Sticking more words in makes it look and sound odd

 

[Angeline]

So, Villanelle experts, is there a particular meter that has to appear? Or is it just that the same meter has to appear in every line?

For example, would these be acceptable first triplets? (I know I have to work on the content.)

So perfectly motionless, perfectly behaved ...
She trusts my demands of her, giving me her soul,
My dominance always assured, her life enslaved.

My every need met for me, ever so depraved,
She always is there to please, under my control,
So perfectly motionless, perfectly behaved.

Turco's Book of Forms doesn't specify any particular meter either, just says (as Lauren's guideline does) that lines should be in the same meter. The first example in Forms doesn't even have the exact same meter in the quatrains as in the triplets...

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

Regardless of what Lauren decides, you are still THE Villanelle Slut!

LOL

In the explanation of the Rondeau it says each line 8 to 10 syllables but the example given doesn't go above 7 per line and neither do mine! Sticking more words in makes it look and sound odd

Sticking in words just the fill the form requirements never turns out well for me. To me, it's better to just deviate fom the requirements slightly for the sake of the poem while holding true to the spirit of the form. I think that saying, "yes, this form requires that, but this really works here" is different from "fuck that! I ain't doing that" or throwing a bunch of articles and prepositions in to superficially fill the requirements.

Of course, some forms have some strict requirements that should probably be followed.. like the forms that require repetition..
Even in those forms there is some room for deviation if it benefits the poem. I did it in the last line of my villanelle. Other than switching word order or two words, I've seen villanelles that substitute one word for a homonym of that word. Some of the best villanelles, in my humble opinion, play with the meaning of one or more of the words in the repeated lines without changing the line.

 

[NorthernPA4U]

Turco's Book of Forms doesn't specify any particular meter either, just says (as Lauren's guideline does) that lines should be in the same meter. The first example in Forms doesn't even have the exact same meter in the quatrains as in the triplets...

Thank you.

Now, just a question, in your opinion (anyone) does the meter in the example I used seem awkward ?

 

[annaswirls]

LOL

Sticking in words just the fill the form requirements never turns out well for me. To me, it's better to just deviate fom the requirements slightly for the sake of the poem while holding true to the spirit of the form. I think that saying, "yes, this form requires that, but this really works here" is different from "fuck that! I ain't doing that" or throwing a bunch of articles and prepositions in to superficially fill the requirements.

Of course, some forms have some strict requirements that should probably be followed.. like the forms that require repetition..
Even in those forms there is some room for deviation if it benefits the poem. I

can I get an AMEN???

 

[NorthernPA4U]

One more question by the newbie:

On a double dactyl, does the second line have to contain ONLY the proper name?

For example, is this valid? Can I assume from the last set of comments that people would recommend I leave it like this?

DIY

Okely Dokely,
Robert J Vila was
One day installing an
Old oaken shelf,

Enthusiastically,
Vila recited his
Motto when queried why,
"Do It Yourself!"

 

[Angeline]

Thank you.

Now, just a question, in your opinion (anyone) does the meter in the example I used seem awkward ?

It seems fine to me, but that is just one opinion.

The only thing that really struck me was your use of "giving" instead of "give" because "give" is more consistent with your verb tense usage elsewhere in the piece. And I might lose that "always," too. I'm guessing that both those words are being used to get a perfect meter, but I'm in the amen corner with LadyS and Anna so far as not going for perfect meter if there's a better word (or you lose a word). Again, just my opinion. Anyway, the sentiment does seem to me to be no one is going to call "foul" because you liked a word or two better. Maybe others can weigh in.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Sticking in words just the fill the form requirements never turns out well for me. To me, it's better to just deviate fom the requirements slightly for the sake of the poem while holding true to the spirit of the form. I think that saying, "yes, this form requires that, but this really works here" is different from "fuck that! I ain't doing that" or throwing a bunch of articles and prepositions in to superficially fill the requirements.

Of course, some forms have some strict requirements that should probably be followed.. like the forms that require repetition..
Even in those forms there is some room for deviation if it benefits the poem.

can I get an AMEN???

Amen.

 

[NorthernPA4U]

It seems fine to me, but that is just one opinion.

The only thing that really struck me was your use of "giving" instead of "give" because "give" is more consistent with your verb tense usage elsewhere in the piece. And I might lose that "always," too. I'm guessing that both those words are being used to get a perfect meter, but I'm in the amen corner with LadyS and Anna so far as not going for perfect meter if there's a better word (or you lose a word). Again, just my opinion. Anyway, the sentiment does seem to me to be no one is going to call "foul" because you liked a word or two better. Maybe others can weigh in.

I have to admit, I'm not yet stuck on all the words, and I can replace parts therein, maybe even whole lines, but what I was trying to get at, just reciting the lines out loud, it seems the beat I have

dah-DAH-dah-dah-DAH-dah-dah-DAH-dah-dah-dah-DAH

seems awkward to me, and maybe I should use this trigger in a different form (although I like the general idea). That's what I was trying to get at, does it sound like an odd rhythm in general? I'm taking it that you thought that part was not as uncomfortable as it sounds sometimes in my head.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

One more question by the newbie:

On a double dactyl, does the second line have to contain ONLY the proper name?

For example, is this valid? Can I assume from the last set of comments that people would recommend I leave it like this?

DIY

Okely Dokely,
Robert J Vila was
One day installing an
Old oaken shelf,

Enthusiastically,
Vila recited his
Motto when queried why,
"Do It Yourself!"

Wikipedia lists a couple of examples that don't have only the proper name in the second line:

Hankety pankety
Boy in a blanket, he’s
Off on a goose-chase to
Look for a star

Incontrovertibly
Journeys through Faerie
Strip off the blanket to
See who you are.

and

Higgledy-Piggledy
Gay Caius Julius.
Tribune sojourning a
Long way from home,

Seeking distraction in
Nicomedophily,
Earned with his service a
Province for Rome.

So, I think it would be acceptable if there's a slight deviation, as in yours.

 

[NorthernPA4U]

Thank you.

 

[Angeline]

I have to admit, I'm not yet stuck on all the words, and I can replace parts therein, maybe even whole lines, but what I was trying to get at, just reciting the lines out loud, it seems the beat I have

dah-DAH-dah-dah-DAH-dah-dah-DAH-dah-dah-dah-DAH

seems awkward to me, and maybe I should use this trigger in a different form (although I like the general idea). That's what I was trying to get at, does it sound like an odd rhythm in general? I'm taking it that you thought that part was not as uncomfortable as it sounds sometimes in my head.

Yup. The rhythm did not sound awkward to me.

(But I have to admit I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who makes myself crazy trying to figure out if a rhythm sounds ok.)

 

[pushkine]

I have some questions about this one, as much for the other contestants as for Lauren:

The Tempest, Reimagined
The only way to a woman's heart is along the path of torment.
—D. A. F. de Sade

Once, in a kingdom by the sea
On a strange, indifferent shore,
Rough magic ruled by king's decree.

Enforced by spirit's guarantee
Inhabitants would serve the lord,
Once in his kingdom by the sea.

For she, blithe spirit, was not free
Herself but bound to be his whore
(Rough magic ruled this king's decree)

And Ariel, the bourgeoisie
Made trip to rhythms she abhorred,
Once in this kingdom by the sea.

Shipwrecked usurpers nor were free
But taken, taunted, tortured, for
Rough magic ruled here. King's decree.

Though "King" was simply cher Marquis,
His staff a crop, his tastes hardcore.
Once, in a kingdom by the sea,
Rough magic ruled, by king's decree.​

First of all, just to double-check, does this qualify as a villanelle?

Second, I originally used trigger 28 (the phrase "in a kingdom by the sea") for this but just out of curiosity, would it satisfy trigger 42 ("write a poem that reinvents a popular fairy tale")? The larger question is what qualifies as a "popular fairy tale" and how much does one need to do to "reinvent" it?

Third question: If I happen to use a trigger (like 28) but later decide that I want to post the poem under a different trigger (say, 9, if I happened to use the word "neverending" in the poem), I can do that, can't I? It wouldn't mean that I could not use trigger 28 in a different poem, would it?

Thanks in advance.