Could somebody explain haiku to me

[_Land]

Re: Re: How is this Haiku in compareson to mine

Elswhere in the thread U wonder if U r a "literary idiot"? But can't U at least copy and paste without botchering a poem? Can't U check the result of your copying? My poem is:


I never really wondered, and my deepest apologies SJ I didnt mean to butcher your poetry in any means. I would also never use your poetry for instruction, but with the amount of variances that i have seen in the last few days, only as an example. I am trying to learn, that is all please dont take offense at my unskilled posts........... My hands are more used to hammers and saws then computer keys. I just whish to learn and sometimes learning is by trial and error, I posted a few more that i tryed last night. perhaps you could advise me as to in your oppinion if my understanding is getting better or not. I think I will enjoy the form when and if i can grasp it. It seems that it is a minimalist form of expressing the mundane, the everyday thing of life, leading each reader to grasp a different mental image. Perhaps I am way off base, but in the fast paced life I live in this form helps me to stop and smell the roses(metaphoricaly speaking)
I find it refreshing, and imaginative, a change from the nine to five i have known as poetry all my life. I appreciate all of the help and involvement from this community, You guys are helping to broaden my horizons, get more out of life. Thank you for your patience with this unbroke virgin. once again Im sorry_Land

 

[lickmyboot]

Senna Jawa & _Land

orginally posted by Senna Jawa

This is not a haiku, this is not a poem. This is just a statement consisting of overused phrases.

SJ - I thought this was a forum for poetry feedback and discussion. Your words do not appear to be particularly helpful to our newbie friend _Land. Penis envy? I think there's plenty of room on Lit for all of your dangling modifiers.

_Land should be encouraged to try something new and challenging. As with anything worth doing, it takes hard work and practice. We can't all be instant experts. You just came across a bit harsh and brutal for commenting on someone's first attempt. Mild spankings all around.

_ Land - Don't apologize or beg forgiveness. Never apologize for your poetry. Ever. If it comes from within, and fills you completely--it is truly valid. Welcome to the board. I too am new here. I would tell you that you can learn a lot from the fellow poets here. I encourage you to read and vote in the poetry submissions, and post frequently here. I've learned a lot just reading the boardmaster's dissection of others work. I hope you haven't been scared away.

 

[_Land]

I am not easily discouraged, but do understand that a author can be slightly touchy about his work, I was carless not to check to make sure i copied his work correctly_ That said I am very pleased to be a member of this board..... perhaps as i get aquainted with the nuances of the board i will post some of my erotic stories too, as well as some of what i consider my better poetry. Perhaps in time i will know how to say things ina way that will be valueable to others in both my poetic form and in prose.

Thanks for the encouragement _Land

 

[TheDR4KE]

You're doing great already. You're making us think and interact and write poetry, and you're writing too -- and that's what it's all about in the end. Not how well you do it, but that you do it.

And hey, one more post and you'll have moved on from 'virgin' ;-)

Quack

the D

 

[Senna Jawa]

Re: Re: Re: How is this Haiku in compareson to mine

[...] my deepest apologies SJ I didnt mean to butcher your poetry in any means.

Don't worry, _Land. I apologize for overreacting.

I would also never use your poetry for instruction,...

Oh, a misunderstanding. It is a great honor to me that one wants to use my poems for instruction. But what I meant is that my poems, well, certainly my haiku which I have posted so far and the way I posted it, are not suitable for instruction. Perhaps if I copied those which r, if I set them in right order... But there is no need. One should learn haiku from the great masters.

... sometimes learning is by trial and error, [...]

Most of the time. But do not start by trying to write a haiku immediately. First read a bit, and read classics, not second hand sources. Read Basho, Buson, Issa, Shiki, Keiko Imaoka and the critics who write about them. I've already provided a couple of names. Here r some other prominent haiku translators and critics: Harold G. Henderson, Lucien Stryk, Dorothy Britton, Kenneth Rexroth, Nobuyuki Yuasa... there is no need to read everything, just some. In particular, what a paradox, Henderson's "An Introduction to Haiku" (a classic) is a very useful introduction while his translations are poor. But read his literal transliterations from Japanese! AQlso read several translations of the same haiku whenever possible.

I posted a few more that i tried last night. perhaps you could advise me as to in your oppinion if my understanding is getting better or not.

There is time for everything. First U need to read the masters. Otherwise writing and talking about what one wrote is counterproductive, worse than a waste of time and energy since one is in a danger of acquiring bad habits, bad taste, of disregarding the basic issues, of swallowing too happily some ignorant praise, etc. First read the masters.

I think I will enjoy the form when and if i can grasp it.

Certainly. That's why U need to read the masters.

It seems that it is a minimalist form of expressing the mundane, the everyday thing of life, leading each reader to grasp a different mental image. Perhaps I am way off base, [...]

No, this much is true, it is an essential part of haiku. Of course different things r mundane to different people. And haiku doesn't have to be always mundane. It just should not be superficially(!) flashy, superficially grandiose... it should not be superficial, period. And the same goes for the entire poetry.

Enjoy poetry, enjoy haiku, good luck _Land (and read the masters ),

regards,

 

[Angeline]

I'm Liking this _Land Guy!

_Land what I know about Haiku could easily overflow an er . . .thimble, but I liked those whatever they ares you wrote. Your last one, especially, made me laugh out loud. I understand the points folks are making about haiku--sort of abstract expressionist poetry--more a suggestion of a subject's essential quality than a description of it, but anything that can elicit the reaction from a reader that your thingymabobbers did from me can't be all bad!

here's my attempt:

Pesky fly alights
antennae waving replete
go away, digi


and another:

shadow behind glass
halleujah head shop hid
smile into my palms

 

[karmadog]

_Land, you need to keep in mind that sometimes, Senna Jawa can be very professorial. But at the same time, I really respect what he has to say. Senna takes poetry very seriously and he has spent a lot of energy thinking about poetry. Hi sexperience and knowledge is valuable.

stretching -- head
speeding on the internet highways
the butt glued to the chai

SJ might not agree (probably won't), but I found this version more interesting. I wondered how in the hell someone's butt could be glued to tea. Definitely more interesting. At least to me.

edited for poor word choice

 

[Angeline]

Chai

That's funny KD--exactly what I thought. The most interesting thing about that haiku was the juxtaposition of glue and chai.

 

[stargirl32]

ok ive read this whole thread ,,, isnt there a place for A fun haiku , in the world... i will never be a master.. i dont think i have the discipline... bit i enjoy trying to write ,, i find trying to stick to the 5-7-5 hard enough.

roasting bodys
always to regular turn
like chicken on spit.

 

[*ladylove*]

STAR!!!!! BABES!!! *snugggles smooooochies liccccccckks and loads of obscene feels and gropes*..ok..had to get that out of the way...hehehehe!

There always has to be room for fun, kind of like jello eh?!?!

bodies roasting
squirming wriggling turning
is that chicken spit?

*ladylove*

 

[_Land]

SJ

Thanks so much for the references to the masters, I am reading and gaining understanding. Some times my sense of humor gets in the way of me being serious. I like the idea of minimalism, the idea of taking something down to its core value. What is it really made of!

 

[_Land]

minimalizing

ok ive read this whole thread ,,, isnt there a place for A fun haiku , in the world... i will never be a master.. i dont think i have the discipline... bit i enjoy trying to write ,, i find trying to stick to the 5-7-5 hard enough.

roasting bodys
always to regular turn
like chicken on spit.

roast body
always turning
oh shit _Land

 

[_Land]

Re: I'm Liking this _Land Guy!

_Land what I know about Haiku could easily overflow an er . . .thimble, but I liked those whatever they ares you wrote. Your last one, especially, made me laugh out loud. I understand the points folks are making about haiku--sort of abstract expressionist poetry--more a suggestion of a subject's essential quality than a description of it, but anything that can elicit the reaction from a reader that your thingymabobbers did from me can't be all bad!

here's my attempt:

Pesky fly alights
antennae waving replete
go away, digi


and another:

shadow behind glass
halleujah head shop hid
smile into my palms

*smiles warmly at angelina and winks*

heightened senses
steamy mist rising
heaving bodys

 

[stargirl32]

STAR!!!!! BABES!!! *snugggles smooooochies liccccccckks and loads of obscene feels and gropes*..ok..had to get that out of the way...hehehehe!

There always has to be room for fun, kind of like jello eh?!?!

bodies roasting
squirming wriggling turning
is that chicken spit?

*ladylove*

ohh geee ll sexy babe ... more of the obscene ones please ,, umm i might never make a master .. but can i practise being a mistress on you darlin ,,, hee hee

i was PMSL at that last line ,,, your wicked you know that and i have misees your mind and your fingers ,,
can we make that lime green jello ,...

 

[wife_trainer]

Much praise

As a lurker - I am very impressed by the depth and sensitivity of these poems. I have written many of them down already to read again later.

 

[_Land]

Some sighku

Leaves falling
Hearts following suit
Love Finding

I think even SJ might enjoy the first one



Light green eyes
bright orbs glowing
warm my soul

 

[Rybka]

Hearts following suit

You could probably loose the "suit". It doesn't quite fit.

Regards, Rybka

 

[_Land]

Rybka

I chose to use hearts following suit, because it holds more meaning, It not only relays that the hearts are following, but it also brings images of a card game, heart being led, following etc........... at least that was the image i had hoped it would imply, but that being said what would you have used?
Regards_Land

 

[Rybka]

I chose to use hearts following suit, because it holds more meaning, It not only relays that the hearts are following, but it also brings images of a card game, heart being led, following etc........... at least that was the image i had hoped it would imply, but that being said what would you have used?

I would have probably just used "hearts following", but if I wanted to indicate the card metaphor [leaves - cards], I might have said, "following suit, hearts"


Regards, Rybka

 

[_Land]

suit

Dictionary



Main Entry: 1suit
Pronunciation: 'süt
Function: noun
6 a : all the playing cards in a pack bearing the same symbol b : all the dominoes bearing the same number c : all the cards or counters in a particular suit held by one player <a 5-card suit> d : the suit led <follow suit>

The suit that led in this case was the first line

also



Main Entry: 1fol·low
Pronunciation: 'fä-(")lO
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English folwen, from Old English folgian; akin to Old High German folgEn to follow
Date: before 12th century
transitive senses
1 : to go, proceed, or come after <followed the guide>

7 : to copy after : IMITATE

So folowing these thoughts, hearts were imitating the leaves


just wanted to help clarify the use of suit in that haiku if it would "suit" you <WEG> in this case "suit"=to meet the needs or desires of : PLEASE

 

[lickmyboot]

_Land

To keep the card/leaf imagery, why not change the last line from

Love finding

To something like:

Leaves falling
Hearts following suit
Love trumped.

Finding doesn't quite sum it up for me because of the verb tense. Just a thought.

 

[_Land]

*sheeepishly waves*

well damn me to purgatory, both great ideas,
Sometimes when ya get a concept or vision in your head its hard to see room for improvement


That said:
Leaves falling
following suit, Hearts
Love trumped




Thanks, that is muh better. It not only maintains the mental imagery I wanted to preserve, but even improves it.

 

[lickmyboot]

Glad to be of help, sir!

 

[Senna Jawa]

Re: *sheeepishly waves*

well damn me to purgatory, both great ideas,
Sometimes when ya get a concept or vision in your head its hard to see room for improvement


That said:

Leaves falling
following suit, Hearts
Love trumped




Thanks, that is muh better. It not only maintains the mental imagery I wanted to preserve, but even improves it.

All versions of this 3-liner are as bad as they can be. You can hardly write anything worse.

Regards,

 

[Rybka]

What Happened SJ, the Happy Pill Wear Off?

Glad to see you didn't bite off that acerbic tongue of yours!

All versions of this 3-liner are as bad as they can be. You can hardly write anything worse.

How about giving us an example of what can be done with this 3-liner.

Regards, Rybka