Did That Debate Change Your Vote.

[adrina]

I'm speaking the truth as I see it. As for us in the US, there's a difference between the interests of the American billionaires, and the interests of working class and lower middle class Americans. They are completely different. The main enemy is at home, not over in Russia. We are in the heart of the beast in the US.


My problems are all the work and all the financial payments, which are never ending.


The Democrats pretend to be on our side, that's why, yet in some ways they are worse. They have this horrible tendency to blame all their failures on hostile foreigners like the Russians, or on progressives, just so they themselves can continue sabotaging people like Bernie Sanders in favor of Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden. The reality is that Sanders would have beaten Trump in 2016, because Sanders would have focused on policy and not personal attacks. The DNC clearly prefers Trump as president to Sanders as president. That is clear.

The Republicans have been deranged ever since Reagan took over the party, yet Trump is different to Reagan in many ways. Reagan was in favor of free trade, in favor of immigration, in favor of seemingly endless foreign wars. Trump is protectionist, is against most immigration (and hardening his position on that over time), and thinks most foreign wars are "a waste of billions and billions of dollars".

What I've just described seems to go over the heads of most of my critics on this forum.


When the Democrats lose, they will try to blame Russians and progressives again. That is obvious.

When Obama became president, the Democrats controlled the Presidency, the Senate and the House. Why didn't they do things then like codify Roe v Wade? They obviously didn't want to.

So pull the Cartman. This is the reality we live in. You don't like either but you spend 99% of your time bashing democrats.

The reason Sanders didn't beat Trump is because his voters didn't vote. That's the real issue. You want to blame democrats for Sander's loss but the real power always is and always was with the voters. When they can be fucked to vote that is.

Again, less than 15% of Sander's supporters showed up to vote for him in ALL primaries that were held across the country. From the first state to the last. They stayed home. And you think it's the democrat's fault.

Frankly if this is how America and Americans think then the country deserves to go down the drain. You deserve to lose your freedoms, your ability to vote and even your ability to shop til you drop.

As for Roe, check the goddamn numbers. Fucking A. They didn't have them. (Would have been helpful for the "electorate" to have voted, but voting doesn't matter... it's all rigged amirite.)

Again this rabid dog with a bone "everything bad is the democrats fault because they didn't stop it!" Even though the citizens couldn't even be bothered to do the one goddamn thing to save their sorry ever bitching and moaning asses: vote.

Fuck off with that bullshit.

 

[RandyRebecca]

"Becky" obviously doesn’t realize that decent, intelligent, individuals have long since abandoned civil debate with "her" and are now simply, trolling, mocking, and calling out "her" indefensible rationalizations involving Putin and Russia, etc.

You mean that you have no arguments against the points that I'm raising? I've been totally honest that I'm a socialist, and don't like establishment liberals.

Putin is a gangster capitalist. Trump wants to do deals with him to end the war in Ukraine. Biden seemingly wants to send more and more arms/money to Ukraine, while Israel expects the same, and seemingly with increased confronation with China on the horizon.

I oppose the war in Ukraine because its aims are reactionary imperialist, including on the Russian side. But it's also a fact that the US incited the war, especially so the Democrats. I've explained openly on this forum the difference in Trump's foreign policy and Biden's foreign policy, and their different approaches to NATO, Russia, Iran, North Korea. All I seem to get in response from you in particular, Lazaran, is personal attacks and outright denials that Biden has anything to do with the war in Ukraine. The establishment even has the gall to say that the war was "unprovoked" and thinks us stupid enough to swallow that.

And it’s “ton”, not "TONNE".

Looking at it in a dictionary, it seems that ton is imperial and tonne is metric. It doesn't really matter.

 

[Sean Renaud]

It is.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-condemns-antisemitic-protests-palestine-columbia-university/


You shouldn't vote for either Biden or Trump. It's that simple. Evil or evil = Evil.

This thing of "vote for the lesser evil" means that evil always wins. Reject it.

You know I'll let you have that win even though in context that is not saying critizing Israel is Anti-semetic. MY condemnation of his actions is actually harsher than yours.

You do not have a choice. You either vote Trump or Biden. The lesser of two evils is the system we have and until and unless you are willing shed blood and perhaps lose your life throwing the entire system out the window you aren't doing anything to help anody with this nonsense. Pick which side, if you strip away Biden and Trump. Which party is CLOSER to what you want if you could get a fresh out the factory robot that follows the party platform and has never had a single original thought. If 50.01% of the party thought Bacon Cheeseburgers were the best food anybody who was halal or kosher would be stuck bringing their own food in kind of pure which party is less offensive to you. You need to dedicte your entire life to making sure it is impossible for the other side to even get a job as dog catcher. Does anywhere actually elect dog catchers? You condemn what Israel is doing? Fine. One party moved the Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem a full on slap in the face to people who you claim to think deserve a say in their own fate.

So make one of the things you push for putting the Embassy back. Make it where standing against that is no different from claiming that separate schools is a good idea. But not picking a side is choosing evil. Especially in a system like ours where momentum is everything. A deadweight in isn't equally obstructive to progressives and conservatives. Conservatives WANT things to remain the same so sitting on your ass by nature benefits them.

 

[adrina]

You know I'll let you have that win even though in context that is not saying critizing Israel is Anti-semetic. MY condemnation of his actions is actually harsher than yours.

You do not have a choice. You either vote Trump or Biden. The lesser of two evils is the system we have and until and unless you are willing shed blood and perhaps lose your life throwing the entire system out the window you aren't doing anything to help anody with this nonsense. Pick which side, if you strip away Biden and Trump. Which party is CLOSER to what you want if you could get a fresh out the factory robot that follows the party platform and has never had a single original thought. If 50.01% of the party thought Bacon Cheeseburgers were the best food anybody who was halal or kosher would be stuck bringing their own food in kind of pure which party is less offensive to you. You need to dedicte your entire life to making sure it is impossible for the other side to even get a job as dog catcher. Does anywhere actually elect dog catchers? You condemn what Israel is doing? Fine. One party moved the Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem a full on slap in the face to people who you claim to think deserve a say in their own fate.

So make one of the things you push for putting the Embassy back. Make it where standing against that is no different from claiming that separate schools is a good idea. But not picking a side is choosing evil. Especially in a system like ours where momentum is everything. A deadweight in isn't equally obstructive to progressives and conservatives. Conservatives WANT things to remain the same so sitting on your ass by nature benefits them.

You pissed me off a while ago. But I want to acknowledge that I appreciate this post.

 

[Lazaran]

So pull the Cartman. This is the reality we live in. You don't like either but you spend 99% of your time bashing democrats.

The reason Sanders didn't beat Trump is because his voters didn't vote. That's the real issue. You want to blame democrats for Sander's loss but the real power always is and always was with the voters. When they can be fucked to vote that is.

Again, less than 15% of Sander's supporters showed up to vote for him in ALL primaries that were held across the country. From the first state to the last. They stayed home. And you think it's the democrat's fault.

Frankly if this is how America and Americans think then the country deserves to go down the drain. You deserve to lose your freedoms, your ability to vote and even your ability to shop til you drop.

As for Roe, check the goddamn numbers. Fucking A. They didn't have them. (Would have been helpful for the "electorate" to have voted, but voting doesn't matter... it's all rigged amirite.)

Again this rabid dog with a bone "everything bad is the democrats fault because they didn't stop it!" Even though the citizens couldn't even be bothered to do the one goddamn thing to save their sorry ever bitching and moaning asses: vote.

Fuck off with that bullshit.

You hit on THE major exception I take with "Becky" and "her" ilk, (and that includes the rationalizations about Putin and Russia.) but "Becky" won’t recognize it. (Bernie Sander’s campaign strategy against Hillary Clinton is a hint).

Also:

The failure of Bernie Sanders’ voters to turn out in the primaries in sufficient numbers to change the Democratic nomination is also a rebuttal to the suggestions that Bernie Sanders was the candidates that had the best shot at winning the election.

There were obviously a fuck-“ton” of centrist Democrats who voted for Hillary that NEVER would have voted for Bernie Sanders in a general election.

Side note:

Hillary DID win the popular vote by 3 MILLION, and narrowly lost the electoral college when you look at the margins in key swing states - and the margins in the key swing states were likely due to -you guessed it - Bernie Sanders’ voters who didn’t vote or voted third party.

But ALL that ^ is lost on "Becky" and "her" ilk.



"Becky"

 

[RandyRebecca]

Hillary DID win the popular vote by 3 MILLION, and narrowly lost the electoral college when you look at the margins in key swing states

That's one way of looking at it. But if you look at the voting stats, you'll see that Clinton only won 20 states plus DC, while Trump won 30 states. The all-time record for states won while losing a presidential election was Ford in 1976, at 27 states won. Clinton winning just 20 states plus DC, had she won the election, would have been historic for winning the fewest number of states, at least since the 19th century.

Clinton also won California alone by around 4.3 million votes.

But ALL that ^ is lost on "Becky" and "her" ilk.

You act like it's lost on you that real power comes from lots and lots of money in US politics.

 

[Lazaran]

You act like it's lost on you that real power comes from lots and lots of money in US politics.

Ironically, "Becky" ignores the fact that it was the REPUBLICAN PARTY and corrupt REPUBLICAN "justices" on the SCOTUS who made "Citizens United" happen.



Of course, it was ALSO the REPUBLICAN PARTY and corrupt REPUBLICAN "justices" on the SCOTUS who: overturned Roe, overturned The Chevron Deference, gutted voting rights and affirmative action, involved the U.S. in every "bad" war since Vietnam (the two major parties WERE fairly indistinguishable back then) created the current wealth gap, etc, etc, etc…

But, yeah, it’s "fair" for "Becky" to trash DEMOCRATS 99% of the time.



Just like it’s "fair" for "Becky" to trash America, Israel, and "The West", 99% of the time in the face of Russian, Arab/ Muslim, Chinese, etc, malign acts and atrocities.



"Becky"

 

[dmallord]

Israel is commiting genocide against the Palestinians and its fucking disgusting. I don't recall Biden or any "Radical leftist" saying opposition to Israel is anti-semetic. The worst I've seen is Biden saying the young people protesting don'tknow their history. Which is probably true though entirely indefensible. Israel=/=All JEws. We really need to work harder to make that deliniation crystal clear. We are not claiming democracy isn't corrupted but honestly when you take a step back and think about it one of the few things the Left and Right mostly agree on is that democracy is corrupt. The only difference is the Left things the majority should win more often than not and the Right thinks the minority are morally superior by virtue of being a minority.

The worst Trump did in the debate is to say "Biden is like a Palestinian." Lets ignore all the things that Trump and his circle have said about how Israel shoudl deal with Palestine and just look at THAT statement.

If you are given two choices as a Palestinian/Muslim/Supporter/Sympathizer or honestly just plain decent human being you have two men. One man has offered the absolute weakest defense of your cause possible, delaying weapons to your murderers for a few weeks while losing support for that very action. THAT IS TOO EXTREME FOR THE OFFICE HE IS RUNNING FOR. The other guy is saying that for even that minor act of mercy (which is a massive upsell) he should be thrown in the pit to burn along side you.

You seriously see THAT as a choice? You do what you have to do to get to the next day.

The worst thing in Trump's remarks was that he lied about nearly everything–not just the Palestinian remark. Trump is the closest to a tyrant our nation has ever experienced. Anyone who cannot see or acknowledge that is in self-denial.

 

[dmallord]

You mean that you have no arguments against the points that I'm raising? I've been totally honest that I'm a socialist, and don't like establishment liberals.

Putin is a gangster capitalist. Trump wants to do deals with him to end the war in Ukraine. Biden seemingly wants to send more and more arms/money to Ukraine, while Israel expects the same, and seemingly with increased confronation with China on the horizon.

I oppose the war in Ukraine because its aims are reactionary imperialist, including on the Russian side. But it's also a fact that the US incited the war, especially so the Democrats. I've explained openly on this forum the difference in Trump's foreign policy and Biden's foreign policy, and their different approaches to NATO, Russia, Iran, North Korea. All I seem to get in response from you in particular, Lazaran, is personal attacks and outright denials that Biden has anything to do with the war in Ukraine. The establishment even has the gall to say that the war was "unprovoked" and thinks us stupid enough to swallow that.


Looking at it in a dictionary, it seems that ton is imperial and tonne is metric. It doesn't really matter.

Can you point to an instance where Donald Trump has a policy statement? I hear him say he will stop the Ukraine and Russian war before he takes office–in a day. That's not a policy- that fiction and braggadocios, an idiot talking.

 

[dmallord]

Hey, @RandyRebecca, Donald Trump's ability to formulate a peaceful solution to war is similar to his abilities in this video clip.

Boarding Airforce One

What did he say?

 

[icanhelp1]

Can you point to an instance where Donald Trump has a policy statement? I hear him say he will stop the Ukraine and Russian war before he takes office–in a day. That's not a policy- that fiction and braggadocios, an idiot talking.

What’s Biden’s policy? Vacillation, appeasement and perpetual rope-a-dope.

 

[Aglaopheme]

Can you point to an instance where Donald Trump has a policy statement? I hear him say he will stop the Ukraine and Russian war before he takes office–in a day. That's not a policy- that fiction and braggadocios, an idiot talking.

The RNC, which we all know is Trump, didn’t have a platform in 2020, they stuck with the 2016 platform. They, Trump, intend to shorten that platform this year.

They said the platform should reflect Trump’s vision for America, and avoid creating lines of attack for his opponents.

https://www.npr.org/2024/06/30/nx-s1-5024189/trump-rnc-republican-party-platform

ETA
Trump doesn’t have any policies of his own, he never has. Trump is all about what is good for Trump. Trump is doing the bidding of those with more money and power than him. There has only been one or two things Trump has done that the Koch bros, Philip Morris, and the rest of the Heritage Foundation have disagreed with.

 

[MiaBabe23]

You mean that you have no arguments against the points that I'm raising? I've been totally honest that I'm a socialist, and don't like establishment liberals.

Putin is a gangster capitalist. Trump wants to do deals with him to end the war in Ukraine. Biden seemingly wants to send more and more arms/money to Ukraine, while Israel expects the same, and seemingly with increased confronation with China on the horizon.

I oppose the war in Ukraine because its aims are reactionary imperialist, including on the Russian side. But it's also a fact that the US incited the war, especially so the Democrats. I've explained openly on this forum the difference in Trump's foreign policy and Biden's foreign policy, and their different approaches to NATO, Russia, Iran, North Korea. All I seem to get in response from you in particular, Lazaran, is personal attacks and outright denials that Biden has anything to do with the war in Ukraine. The establishment even has the gall to say that the war was "unprovoked" and thinks us stupid enough to swallow that.


Looking at it in a dictionary, it seems that ton is imperial and tonne is metric. It doesn't really matter.

Rebecca,
So if you’re understandably keen to focus on facts - how precisely do you believe the US incited the war? And how do you believe the war was “provoked” by Ukraine?
Please give your views on the relevance of any or all of key factors such as the Minsk Agreement, the Budapest Memorandum, Putin’s denial of Ukraine’s right to exist, Putin’s views on Russian territory, and Putin’s invasion of Crimea in 2014.

 

[dmallord]

What’s Biden’s policy? Vacillation, appeasement and perpetual rope-a-dope.

You couldn't name one policy that Trump has publicly outlined? How about I start one for you?"

Trump's new policy whereby a President can commit a crime and then pardon himself, such as Trump's current eight-eight charges in four criminal cases - two of which have been brought by the DoJ - over efforts to subvert the 2020 election, retaining classified documents after leaving office, and alleged efforts to cover up a hush money payment to a porn star? Some of these are at the state level, where he currently has no power to pardon himself. But, since we are in unprecedented waters, he could declare that pardoning power anyway and get the backing from the Supreme Court when it rises to that level in the appeal–assuming someone would dare to risk assassination over it by Seal Team 6. A rise to a new American–a dictator from day one!

Biden addressed plans for the economy, social justice, health, and taxes. These plans would certainly appease those in economic distress and provide for those with great medical needs. That sounds like compassion and caring, unlike Trump's motives.

Supporting Trump is a disservice to veterans, the elderly, the poor, and the huddled masses yearning for freedom. It would be an antithetical vote for democracy. I believe I've read that somewhere... how about you?

You plan to support an immoral, narcissistic, pathological liar. Who, with a good conscience, could do that?

[BTW, you incorrectly used the expression 'rope-a-dope.' It's a boxing term for an astute boxer taking advantage of the ring's ropes to absorb the energy of an opponent's blows, tiring the opponent out. It doesn't fit your Biden's policy question–that use would make him stronger by your suggestion. ]

 

[Sean Renaud]

The worst thing in Trump's remarks was that he lied about nearly everything–not just the Palestinian remark. Trump is the closest to a tyrant our nation has ever experienced. Anyone who cannot see or acknowledge that is in self-denial.

This was about a specific topic and it really doesn't matter that he lied at this point.

 

[dmallord]

This was about a specific topic and it really doesn't matter that he lied at this point.

The question was: Did it change your vote?

Well, that had to be affected by what was said. Trump lied throughout the 90 minutes, which reinforced my thinking about him. He deflected nearly every question to kill any sense of a debate scenario. It was just an extension of his rally cries. So lying was of paramount importance in affirming my view of Trump. Lying does matter, no matter when, where, or under what political circumstances.

That Biden was sub-par in his performance left me frustrated but not to the point of counting him out.

 

[MajorRewrite]

The question was: Did it change your vote?

Well, that had to be affected by what was said. Trump lied throughout the 90 minutes, which reinforced my thinking about him. He deflected nearly every question to kill any sense of a debate scenario. It was just an extension of his rally cries. So lying was of paramount importance in affirming my view of Trump. Lying does matter, no matter when, where, or under what political circumstances.

That Biden was sub-par in his performance left me frustrated but not to the point of counting him out.

“Lies” isn’t a strong enough word to describe Trump’s debate performance. He spewed a torrent of lunacy and gibberish. It was unquestionably the most appalling performance by any Presidential candidate in my lifetime, and I’m over 60.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Israel is commiting genocide against the Palestinians and its fucking disgusting. I don't recall Biden or any "Radical leftist" saying opposition to Israel is anti-semetic. The worst I've seen is Biden saying the young people protesting don'tknow their history. Which is probably true though entirely indefensible. Israel=/=All JEws. We really need to work harder to make that deliniation crystal clear. We are not claiming democracy isn't corrupted but honestly when you take a step back and think about it one of the few things the Left and Right mostly agree on is that democracy is corrupt. The only difference is the Left things the majority should win more often than not and the Right thinks the minority are morally superior by virtue of being a minority.

The worst Trump did in the debate is to say "Biden is like a Palestinian." Lets ignore all the things that Trump and his circle have said about how Israel shoudl deal with Palestine and just look at THAT statement.

If you are given two choices as a Palestinian/Muslim/Supporter/Sympathizer or honestly just plain decent human being you have two men. One man has offered the absolute weakest defense of your cause possible, delaying weapons to your murderers for a few weeks while losing support for that very action. THAT IS TOO EXTREME FOR THE OFFICE HE IS RUNNING FOR. The other guy is saying that for even that minor act of mercy (which is a massive upsell) he should be thrown in the pit to burn along side you.

You seriously see THAT as a choice? You do what you have to do to get to the next day.

Sigh. Israel isn't committing genocide. Trump wants Israel to commit genocide and if he's elected President he'll pressure them to kill as many people in Gaza as possible. If you care about Arab lives, the difference between Trump and Biden is stark.

Anti-Zionism is antisemitic because it opposes the very idea of Israel existing. The radical left doesn't care about the Palestinian Arabs. They just want to exterminate the Jews, and the Arabs are useful tools.

There's one choice if you're a decent human being who cares about Palestinian lives. And that's voting for Joe Biden.

 

[Sean Renaud]

The question was: Did it change your vote?

Well, that had to be affected by what was said. Trump lied throughout the 90 minutes, which reinforced my thinking about him. He deflected nearly every question to kill any sense of a debate scenario. It was just an extension of his rally cries. So lying was of paramount importance in affirming my view of Trump. Lying does matter, no matter when, where, or under what political circumstances.

That Biden was sub-par in his performance left me frustrated but not to the point of counting him out.

I context I was responding to Randy.

Sigh. Israel isn't committing genocide. Trump wants Israel to commit genocide and if he's elected President he'll pressure them to kill as many people in Gaza as possible. If you care about Arab lives, the difference between Trump and Biden is stark.

Anti-Zionism is antisemitic because it opposes the very idea of Israel existing. The radical left doesn't care about the Palestinian Arabs. They just want to exterminate the Jews, and the Arabs are useful tools.

There's one choice if you're a decent human being who cares about Palestinian lives. And that's voting for Joe Biden.

Israel is very much committing a genocide and we should not sugarcoat what they are doing at all. They are BARELY half assing it and Biden hasn't done much to curb them. Last I checked his big move was delaying some 2k lbs bombs by a few weeks which. . .okay I guess its not nothing.

Trump DOES want a genuine 100% genocide. Between him and Bibi they would find away, false flag if needed, to justify going after the West Bank. I'm not 100% certain we could trust them to stop there but at least that would be a likely break in immediate actions.

I don't care about Arab lives any more or less than any other lives if we're being honest. OR only slightly more than other lives just because there is some tiny measure of control we have over that situation. Obbiouvly we aren't gonna do a damn thing about the Ugygrs (however that is spelled) in China or tons of other people being oppressed or killed. I'm not pro Israel in the least but you quoted me so I assume you read what I wrote. Not liking Israel has nothing to do with liking Jews and certainly nothing at all to do with wanting them to be gone

Once again there IS no Radical Left worthy of discussion in the United States and we really need to stop pretending othewise. Of the people you could consider radical Left you are pretty much stuck with Sanders, AOC and the other Squad members of which maybe one could be thrown in that group of having any beef with Israel specifically.

Though the more I look into history the more its like Israel is histories greatest trust the Brits and US to take a bad situation, make it worse and then pretend its the fault of brown people.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

I context I was responding to Randy.




Israel is very much committing a genocide and we should not sugarcoat what they are doing at all. They are BARELY half assing it and Biden hasn't done much to curb them. Last I checked his big move was delaying some 2k lbs bombs by a few weeks which. . .okay I guess its not nothing.

Trump DOES want a genuine 100% genocide. Between him and Bibi they would find away, false flag if needed, to justify going after the West Bank. I'm not 100% certain we could trust them to stop there but at least that would be a likely break in immediate actions.

I don't care about Arab lives any more or less than any other lives if we're being honest. OR only slightly more than other lives just because there is some tiny measure of control we have over that situation. Obbiouvly we aren't gonna do a damn thing about the Ugygrs (however that is spelled) in China or tons of other people being oppressed or killed. I'm not pro Israel in the least but you quoted me so I assume you read what I wrote. Not liking Israel has nothing to do with liking Jews and certainly nothing at all to do with wanting them to be gone

Once again there IS no Radical Left worthy of discussion in the United States and we really need to stop pretending othewise. Of the people you could consider radical Left you are pretty much stuck with Sanders, AOC and the other Squad members of which maybe one could be thrown in that group of having any beef with Israel specifically.

Though the more I look into history the more its like Israel is histories greatest trust the Brits and US to take a bad situation, make it worse and then pretend its the fault of brown people.

I do care about Arab lives and that's why I want Israel to win and Hamas to be destroyed. The Gazans deserve better than to be used as human sacrifices by their cynical leaders. Ilhan Omar, Rashida Talib and Jamaal Bowman are openly antisemitic. AOC has been flirting with with antisemitism in her support of Bowman, but I hope she will come to her senses and redeem herself.

 

[GretaX]

The main problem if Biden bows out (which apparently he hinted he might), is that the nomination almost certainly will go to Kamala, who probably stands less of a chance of beating Trump than Biden. We are so fucked!!

 

[GretaX]

It confirmed why I'm voting independent.

While I very much would like to write in a candidate in November, now is not the time for that. 2020 came close to being America's last presidential election. Please don't be responsible for dealing that fate this year!

 

[Lazaran]

The main problem if Biden bows out (which apparently he hinted he might), is that the nomination almost certainly will go to Kamala, who probably stands less of a chance of beating Trump than Biden. We are so fucked!!

Not if the bed-wetters in the Democratic Party grow a spine and continue to have the back of President Biden after ONE bad DEBATE performance.

Notice how the MAGAts have rallied around: A convicted felon; an adjudicated sexual assaulter; an obvious traitor; an insurrectionist, and an orange POS that performed just as poorly at the debate by telling yuuuuuuge LIES, dodging maaaaaaany QUESTIONS, and making several RACIST comments while coming across as openly AUTHORITARIAN???

Democrats abandoning President Biden after ONE bad DEBATE would be sooooooo WEAK: Especially when one considers President Biden’s schedule leading up to the debate and the poor preparation from his advisors.
Hell, who the fuck in President Biden’s inner circle thought it was a good idea to schedule the debate so soon after President Biden was scheduled to be jetting to events all over the world and the country??? The guy IS 81 FFS.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Can you point to an instance where Donald Trump has a policy statement? I hear him say he will stop the Ukraine and Russian war before he takes office–in a day. That's not a policy- that fiction and braggadocios, an idiot talking.

Read between the political lines, beyond Trump's bravado. Clearly, Trump doesn't want to be sending billions of dollars of arms to the Ukrainian financial black hole, especially without getting anything in return. Biden's team, on the other hand, are as much in denial about the current state of affairs in Ukraine as they are about Biden's present day cognitive abilities to be US president, so they would keep sending arms to the bottomless pit. Worse, Israel would demand the same arms for themselves, and the Biden administration would also be confronting China before long.

Hey, @RandyRebecca, Donald Trump's ability to formulate a peaceful solution to war is similar to his abilities in this video clip.

Boarding Airforce One

What did he say?

I'm not voting for Trump. He's also totally unpredictable. He could just as easily turn on the Israelis as be even worse than Biden against the Palestinians. However, he is generally someone who views wars that cost billions and billions of arms with a lot of suspicion. Zelensky asks for billions in arms, gets them, and then asks for more. Trump doesn't tend to like that sort of thing.

What’s Biden’s policy? Vacillation, appeasement and perpetual rope-a-dope.

Biden's policy is to carry on as he and his administration have been doing, until it gets to the point where they can't ignore the reality any longer. By then, they'll probably be fighting Hamas and Hezbollah in a more direct way, or provoking another proxy war against China. They are that crazy.

Rebecca,
So if you’re understandably keen to focus on facts - how precisely do you believe the US incited the war? And how do you believe the war was "provoked" by Ukraine?

The US backed the Euromaidan coup in Ukraine in 2013-14, which overthrew the elected government, illegalized the ruling party (i.e. Party of Regions), saw the Ukrainian president (Yanukovich) have to flee to Russia, illegalized more parties later on, saw neonazi battalions incorporated into the Ukrainian national guard who worship Nazi collaborators from WW2 as "Heroes of Ukraine", and who over 8 years from 2014-2022 killed over 13,000 people in the Donbass (Donetsk and Lugansk Republics) after they declared independence from Ukraine. These neonazis, as well as far right influences in the government, rewrite the history of WW2 to paint the Soviets and the Red Army as bad, and the anti-Soviets (i.e. Nazis or Ukrainian nationalists) as good. The USA's allies in WW2 were the Soviets.

The US has been agitating to get Ukraine into the EU and/or NATO, at least the threat of it to provoke the Russians. It was Yanukovich's rejection of an EU trade deal in favor of a Russian trade deal that was the last act before the Euromaidan coup. At the time of the coup, Victoria Nuland in the US embassy in Kiev was talking about "Klits" and "Yats" and who would become the leader in Ukraine, also saying "fuck the EU", an early warning of what was to come after the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine (i.e. Germany forced to cut off gas trade with Russia, the Nordstream pipeline blown up), as Germany is the main force in the EU, aside from the US of course.

There have also been regular war games by NATO right near Russia's borders, an act of deliberate provocation. Imagine how the US would feel if China patrol warships down the US west coast, Russia did the same on the east coast, China/Russia had troops on the US-Canada border, the US-Mexico border, in Cuba, in El Salvador, in Colombia, in Venezuela. This is effectively what the US has been doing to Russia and China for years, particularly since Barack Obama's "Pivot to Asia" strategy.

Please give your views on the relevance of any or all of key factors such as the Minsk Agreement, the Budapest Memorandum, Putin’s denial of Ukraine’s right to exist, Putin’s views on Russian territory, and Putin’s invasion of Crimea in 2014.

Who ignored the Minsk Agreement? NATO did. German leader, Angela Merkel, said it.

https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/merkel:-minsk-agreement-attempted-to-give-ukraine-time

As for Crimea. Look at it this way, Russia's Black Sea naval fleet has always been based there. For centuries, Crimea was a part of Russia until 1954, when Khrushchev handed it to Ukraine. Both Russia and Ukraine were a part of the Soviet Union in 1954, i.e. the same sovereign state. After the Soviet Union dissolved, Russia's Black Sea fleet continued to be held in the Black Sea at the Crimean port of Sevastapol. Now, do you really think that Russia were ever going to tolerate their Black Sea naval fleet falling into the hands of hostile anti-Russian politicians based in Kiev after the Euromaidan coup? Russia were never going to allow that, yet the US pushed it to that point, perhaps hoping the Russians would show weakness and do nothing.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I do care about Arab lives and that's why I want Israel to win and Hamas to be destroyed. The Gazans deserve better than to be used as human sacrifices by their cynical leaders. Ilhan Omar, Rashida Talib and Jamaal Bowman are openly antisemitic. AOC has been flirting with with antisemitism in her support of Bowman, but I hope she will come to her senses and redeem herself.

Okay say what ever you want. AT this point you can claim whatever you want but Israel winning means the end of the Palestinians. It is a stated goal and what exactly have those three done that is antisemitic. Not anti-Israel, anti-Jewish.