For those who assume supporting a Trump presidency over a Biden one means being a MAGA Trumper....

[PaxNurgle]

The thing is we don't have radical leftists in this country.

Basically this says it all.

What some people call "Radical Leftists" are simply mainstream, common-sense policies that have been pushed- by members of BOTH parties- for many decades without any controversy. Whenever people use this term, or the term "Marxist," to describe an American politician, I cringe. "Radical Leftists" want the government to take over ALL public owned industry, forcibly re-distribute wealth from wealthy individuals, Confiscate ALL guns (even hand guns), and abolish private farms and establish state-owned agricultural collectives. And, if we are talking about the anarchist faction of the radical Left, defund ALL law enforcement, abolish prisons, and basically have neither laws in place nor consequences.

WHEN has any American politician ever proposed any of these things? When, specifically, did Biden propose any of these things?

He did not. Obviously.

So can we just shut up, once and for all, about the "Radical Leftist/Marxist" bullshit?

And keep in mind that advocating for racial equality and tolerance is not "Marxist," no matter how much the KKK/Nazi faction on this board may try to claim it is.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Honestly if we were going to put a gun ban in place handguns would be the ideal place to start. The overwhelming majority of murders and suicides use handguns. Most crimes that involve weapons use handguns. Even though we see it so offten that we're kinda numb to mass shootings are relatively rare. Especially if you're talking about what most people think of as a mass shooting vs the legal definition.

 

[YDB95]

There were undoubtedly Germans in the '30s who didn't hate Jews, but voted for the Nazis for other reasons.
In retrospect, it doesn't matter why they voted as they did, does it?

 

[Philthy_Phil]

I am pretty exhausted with those who can't seem to separate support for a person's policies, or at least many of them, from blanket support for a man. Agreement on some key points does not, nor has it ever, equated to a cult following. For example, I agree with much of the moral teachings of Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses and could have a very good conversation about the state of society today. But I could never join with them on any other level because there are key components to their teachings that I consider to be dangerous and that make them horrible cults. In many ways, cults of personality are worse.

So, for those of you who are unable to distinguish enough to have a nuanced conversation, I am going to post here four MAJOR areas where I disagree with Trump's stated platform. I understand that on three of these issues it's because I don't think he goes far enough or gives too much, but that alone makes the point that I do not consider, nor have I ever considered, him a conservative in any sense of the word. He is a populist and a pragmatist. But I do prefer him over the alternative currently out there.

Having said all that, here are my four points of major DISAGREEMENT with Trump.

1: His stance on tariffs. He did this before and I had a major beef then too. Tariffs do not help any economy, not does the intended target of a tariff, especially if they, fairly or unfairly, control much of that market, ever actually take the biggest hit. This should be basic economics 101. When prices go up, the consumer, not the company, is going to pay them. So using tariffs to punish China and other bad actors on the national stage is just a bad idea. It has never worked. If he does this, it will easily at least partially undercut the economic benefits of a Trump presidency.

2: His willingness to leave abortion laws up to the states. Abortion is a human rights issue. A baby is IN a mother's womb, but it is not PART of her body. We know this to be scientifically true. The baby has separate DNA, can be a separate gender, has different needs, and is not legitimately a "my body, my choice" issue. That is a human life. That life, no matter how it is conceived, is precious. There are other options if the mother is in danger, or it was conceived in a horrific way, but to murder a baby because of crimes not its own is horrific. Abortion, taking the life of an innocent, is ALWAYS murder. We would not leave the right to murder a baby 1 hour out of the womb, even born prematurely, up to the states. The location of that baby's body has no bearing on whether or not it should be considered a crime of the most heinous nature. Instead of taking the easy route of leaving it up to the states, there needs to be support for treating murder as murder on a national level. Period.

3. Funding for Israel in their defense, short of actual crimes and corruption, which they have not been part of at least up to this point, should never have even the consideration of qualifiers beyond the consideration of what we can afford. I know there are a LOT of you that will flip out on this statement, but I stand by it. That is a much longer discussion I don't feel the need to get into here. But his willingness to add caveats to funding and aid makes me very nervous.

4. Heavy pushes on the so-called vax for Covid-19. These things are a nightmare and are making things worse. Again, because of the purpose of this thread, I am not going to engage in the debate over the position. There are great threads and posts out there that have that debate. You can make up your own mind on that subject. I am very nervous that a push compromise on this, though, can and will lead to taking away freedom of choice on this issue. As with any vax issue, I believe failure to allow individual and family liberty on this is in fact a fundamental constitutional violation of individual rights and opens the door to far more egregious violations. Give a government an inch, they will take... everything!

There are, of course, other minor issues, but these are huge deals for me. But given the choice between these and dealing with a radical leftist socialist agenda being pushed forward, I have no issues voting for the man. I just want there to be actual conservatives around him to keep him in check.

That's a lot of words just to say you're a trumptard.

 

[Comshaw]

I am pretty exhausted with those who can't seem to separate support for a person's policies, or at least many of them, from blanket support for a man. Agreement on some key points does not, nor has it ever, equated to a cult following. For example, I agree with much of the moral teachings of Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses and could have a very good conversation about the state of society today. But I could never join with them on any other level because there are key components to their teachings that I consider to be dangerous and that make them horrible cults. In many ways, cults of personality are worse.

So, for those of you who are unable to distinguish enough to have a nuanced conversation, I am going to post here four MAJOR areas where I disagree with Trump's stated platform. I understand that on three of these issues it's because I don't think he goes far enough or gives too much, but that alone makes the point that I do not consider, nor have I ever considered, him a conservative in any sense of the word. He is a populist and a pragmatist. But I do prefer him over the alternative currently out there.

Having said all that, here are my four points of major DISAGREEMENT with Trump.

1: His stance on tariffs. He did this before and I had a major beef then too. Tariffs do not help any economy, not does the intended target of a tariff, especially if they, fairly or unfairly, control much of that market, ever actually take the biggest hit. This should be basic economics 101. When prices go up, the consumer, not the company, is going to pay them. So using tariffs to punish China and other bad actors on the national stage is just a bad idea. It has never worked. If he does this, it will easily at least partially undercut the economic benefits of a Trump presidency.

2: His willingness to leave abortion laws up to the states. Abortion is a human rights issue. A baby is IN a mother's womb, but it is not PART of her body. We know this to be scientifically true. The baby has separate DNA, can be a separate gender, has different needs, and is not legitimately a "my body, my choice" issue. That is a human life. That life, no matter how it is conceived, is precious. There are other options if the mother is in danger, or it was conceived in a horrific way, but to murder a baby because of crimes not its own is horrific. Abortion, taking the life of an innocent, is ALWAYS murder. We would not leave the right to murder a baby 1 hour out of the womb, even born prematurely, up to the states. The location of that baby's body has no bearing on whether or not it should be considered a crime of the most heinous nature. Instead of taking the easy route of leaving it up to the states, there needs to be support for treating murder as murder on a national level. Period.

3. Funding for Israel in their defense, short of actual crimes and corruption, which they have not been part of at least up to this point, should never have even the consideration of qualifiers beyond the consideration of what we can afford. I know there are a LOT of you that will flip out on this statement, but I stand by it. That is a much longer discussion I don't feel the need to get into here. But his willingness to add caveats to funding and aid makes me very nervous.

4. Heavy pushes on the so-called vax for Covid-19. These things are a nightmare and are making things worse. Again, because of the purpose of this thread, I am not going to engage in the debate over the position. There are great threads and posts out there that have that debate. You can make up your own mind on that subject. I am very nervous that a push compromise on this, though, can and will lead to taking away freedom of choice on this issue. As with any vax issue, I believe failure to allow individual and family liberty on this is in fact a fundamental constitutional violation of individual rights and opens the door to far more egregious violations. Give a government an inch, they will take... everything!

There are, of course, other minor issues, but these are huge deals for me. But given the choice between these and dealing with a radical leftist socialist agenda being pushed forward, I have no issues voting for the man. I just want there to be actual conservatives around him to keep him in check.

Actually, those policies aren't even on the radar for worry when it comes to what the donald wants to do if he gets elected again. Down there ▼ in Bray's post is what we should be talking about. And before you say it, no he wasn't joking or pulling our chain, or any other euphemism you want to call it. He tried to hold on to the office of President by hook and crook. He carted away boxes of secret documents (some of which are still missing, loaded onto a plane and bound for who knows where) and when asked refused to return them. That should tell anyone who has half a brain what the donald will do next time around.

So if you're even considering voting for him, and can close one eye and squint with the other to justify what he has and will do, just own it: you are a MAGA, a Trumper. Ain't no fucking way around it.

If you vote for a guy who says that he will change the Constitution, make himself dictator, imprison people who disagree with him, who is proud to be against women's rights, goes golfing rather than read security briefings (yet takes the security papers with him when voted out of office), don't be too surprised when people think you support the policies of changing the Constitution, having a dictator, imprisoning political opponents, ending women's rights and degrading national security.

Comshaw

 

[coati]

Here's why I'm opposed to Donald Trump:

1. His racism and xenophobia
2. His corruption
3. His misogyny

There are dozens of other good reasons to be opposed to Donald Trump, but the big 3 were obvious 8 years ago, and have only become more obvious since.

His stance on leaving women's reproductive rights up to the states is like leaving slavery up to the states.

Basic rights are not left up to the states. We fought a civil war over that concept.

 

[Veroe]

His denial of climate change.
His failure to negotiate drug prices like he promised in 2016.
His failure to close tax loopholes like he promised in 2016.
His only legislative accomplishments being Paul Ryan's wet dream of tax cuts for the rich.
His failure to do anything on infrastructure other than climbing into a cab of a fire engine for a photo op.
His failure to replace obamacare with something better.
His failure to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it.
Caging kids even if they were illegals. It just aint a good look.
His half-assed war on illegal immigration
His half-assed trade war with China.
His promised but nonexistent efforts to bring back American manufacturing to smalltown America.
His ridiculously unhinged obsession over how he lost in 2020.
Project 2025 being a trojan horse for a Christian nationalist agenda.

There's lots of policy reasons I won't vote for Trump, but mostly I don't think he has the right temperament to unite this country, in fact everything I've seen from the man says he can only exacerbate the divisions plaguing this country further perhaps to the point where an actual 2nd civil can happen.

 

[PaxNurgle]

I stopped reading at "Radical Leftist Socialist Agenda." Proof, RIGHT THERE, in those words, that this guy is a political illiterate who has no clear idea what he's talking about.

And even worse, claiming that one of the few saving graces that Trump has said- meaning, leaving the abortion issue up to the states vs. a blanket national ban (like he seems to want)- is actually a major disagreement, is clear proof that he is not only a political illiterate, but he has no clear concept of the proper role of government in a free society.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Saving y’all some keystrokes. Time Magazine already captured your worst fears. Posted it in another thread but if you need more content to stoke your fears, be sure to follow the “Just The Polls” thread.

https://time.com/6972022/donald-trump-transcript-2024-election/

 

[YDB95]

I stopped reading at "Radical Leftist Socialist Agenda." Proof, RIGHT THERE, in those words, that this guy is a political illiterate who has no clear idea what he's talking about.

And even worse, claiming that one of the few saving graces that Trump has said- meaning, leaving the abortion issue up to the states vs. a blanket national ban (like he seems to want)- is actually a major disagreement, is clear proof that he is not only a political illiterate, but he has no clear concept of the proper role of government in a free society.

Anyone who has read any of his previous posts already knew that.

 

[Bn2f]

Saving y’all some keystrokes. Time Magazine already captured your worst fears. Posted it in another thread but if you need more content to stoke your fears, be sure to follow the “Just The Polls” thread.

https://time.com/6972022/donald-trump-transcript-2024-election/

You want a trump presidency. I don’t. Put your mouth where your polls are.
A 1 year ban from posting depending on our candidate of choice losing.

 

[Veroe]

I am pretty exhausted with those who can't seem to separate support for a person's policies, or at least many of them, from blanket support for a man. Agreement on some key points does not, nor has it ever, equated to a cult following. For example, I agree with much of the moral teachings of Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses and could have a very good conversation about the state of society today. But I could never join with them on any other level because there are key components to their teachings that I consider to be dangerous and that make them horrible cults. In many ways, cults of personality are worse.

You're right the cult label gets thrown around too much, but its not helped when you people brush off arguments against with legit facts as meaningless because you believe it's fake news because it challenges your presumptions either about the man or his policies.

Neither is it helped by those that say they want him to become a dictator on day one.

Neither is it helped when some threaten the lives of the DAs and judges and families of those currently prosecuting Trump.

 

[Lazaran]

You're right the cult label gets thrown around too much, but its not helped when you people brush off arguments against with legit facts as meaningless because you believe it's fake news because it challenges your presumptions either about the man or his policies.

It’s called “Sealioning”.

They NEVER have / had any intention of engaging in good faith. Their goal is simply to engage to the point of distraction / exhaustion.



I treat them accordingly.

They deserve and receive nothing but mocking scorn and derision from this quarter.

 

[KeithD]

If you vote for a candidate, then you will be complicit in their agenda. Whether you like this or not is irrelevant.

There is no ballot where you can vote for a candidate with a disclaimer

Yep, with all we know about Donald Trump from his own actions and statements--and that we knew in 2016 even--anyone who will vote for him now is a MAGA Trumper.

 

[Comshaw]

Saving y’all some keystrokes. Time Magazine already captured your worst fears. Posted it in another thread but if you need more content to stoke your fears, be sure to follow the “Just The Polls” thread.

https://time.com/6972022/donald-trump-transcript-2024-election/

So you either: 1) Do not believe the donald will do what he has said he will do, IE; suspend the constitution on day one, use the DOJ to go after his political foes, and more.

OR

2) You don't care if he does those things.

So which is it?

Comshaw

 

[Lazaran]

So you either: 1) Do not believe the donald will do what he has said he will do, IE; suspend the constitution on day one, use the DOJ to go after his political foes, and more.

OR

2) You don't care if he does those things.

So which is it?

Comshaw

I know you think I’m too harsh with people like BabyBoobs, but that POS is a sociopathic troll that has zero interest in anything but self-interest and owning the libs.

Good luck getting a serious answer from that POS.

 

[schism666]

The thing is we don't have radical leftists in this country. At least not in numbers high enough to do anything. We definitely need a healthy dose of socialism in this country before we finish screwing ourselves.

we are the new sandinista rebels!

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

So you either: 1) Do not believe the donald will do what he has said he will do, IE; suspend the constitution on day one, use the DOJ to go after his political foes, and more.

OR

2) You don't care if he does those things.

So which is it?

Comshaw

What part of the interview transcript are you referring to? Just copy and paste the quote and I’ll be happy to comment. No paraphrasing, no third party opinions.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

You want a trump presidency. I don’t. Put your mouth where your polls are.
A 1 year ban from posting depending on our candidate of choice losing.

I haven’t made any predictions about the outcome of the election and I don’t plan on making any wagers. I’m following the polls closely and post many of them in the Just the Polls thread. I decide if, when, and what to post here. The outcome of the election has no bearing on that. You can always put me on ignore or simply not read my posts if they bother you.

 

[ll74]

I haven’t made any predictions about the outcome of the election and I don’t plan on making any wagers. I’m following the polls closely and post many of them in the Just the Polls thread. I decide if, when, and what to post here. The outcome of the election has no bearing on that. You can always put me on ignore or simply not read my posts if they bother you.

I'm thankful for you keeping that thread going. I have to admit that I haven't been following them as closely as when I started that thread. I may start once we get through the summer.

 

[Bn2f]

I haven’t made any predictions about the outcome of the election and I don’t plan on making any wagers. I’m following the polls closely and post many of them in the Just the Polls thread. I decide if, when, and what to post here. The outcome of the election has no bearing on that. You can always put me on ignore or simply not read my posts if they bother you.

You yuk it up when the opportunity arises for you to do so on every Biden senile thread in addition to starting your own. You can feign disinterest and carefully word your response here and then post elsewhere the qualities of trump's tax cuts. I have no one here on ignore and, like you, will continue to call out asshole members at my choosing.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

You yuk it up when the opportunity arises for you to do so on every Biden senile thread in addition to starting your own. You can feign disinterest and carefully word your response here and then post elsewhere the qualities of trump's tax cuts. I have no one here on ignore and, like you, will continue to call out asshole members at my choosing.

Yes, I yuk it up on DJ senility threads. Yes, I’m supporting Trump. Yes, I’m happy with the TCJA and am glad the individual rates will be extended in 2025 with support from Democrats.

Your request has been denied.

 

[Philthy_Phil]

So you either: 1) Do not believe the donald will do what he has said he will do, IE; suspend the constitution on day one, use the DOJ to go after his political foes, and more.

OR

2) You don't care if he does those things.

So which is it?

Comshaw

He is 2 but won't admit it.

 

[ll74]

So you either: 1) Do not believe the donald will do what he has said he will do, IE; suspend the constitution on day one, use the DOJ to go after his political foes, and more.

OR

2) You don't care if he does those things.

So which is it?

Comshaw

I will admit it's difficult to imagine anyone doing the things he says he will do without any sensible cautiion, but I think many believe the trials for 45 currently are an example of the left doing some already....

We're in a very strange time on so many fronts......amazing that one man has had such an impact, imo

 

[Bn2f]

Yes, I yuk it up on DJ senility threads. Yes, I’m supporting Trump. Yes, I’m happy with the TCJA and am glad the individual rates will be extended in 2025 with support from Democrats.

Your request has been denied.

Duly noted that the challenge will not be taken up by you.
You continue to tout polls and I will continue to point out that trump has never won the popular vote in any election, the candidates he supports routinely lose, and republicans have overseen the most do nothing congress ever and have no legislation of note to brag to voters this November. You are free to not read or put me on ignore as I will continue to state these factual truths while still calling you a self gratifying slur at the end of my posts.
You disingenuous asshat.