Okay, guys, here's a thread to air your views on voting

[theognis]

And I said in another thread, I regretted one 75 I left, regretted some of the hundreds more.
Don't start these wars. I would rather go back to blithely handing out 100's.
I was a loser in one of them, because of a 50. So who lost, besides me, everybody here that was trying to write good poetry lost.
Fridayam is a damn good poet. I probably lost what was close to the only fan I had here, because of a previous defense of his writing.
A long time ago I kissed off the top list dream, I can kiss off the H's. I can go back to writing for three people. None of it matters, except a sort of vibrant community of free exchange.

I didn't start this, and I'm amazed I'm being accused of starting it. I tried to handle the initial insult privately, and a private apology would have ended it. I wish it had been forthcoming.

I will leave all of you in peace, if it's allowed.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Just so everybody knows, fridayam not only left a nasty comment on one of my submissions, he dropped a one bomb on it and knocked its rating from a 4.86 to a 4.38 with that one lousy vote.

I don't mind people being critical in a civil way, and I don't mind someone not giving one of my submissions a five, if they feel it deserves something less, but there's no call for what was done, in my opinion. I had never even contemplated giving anybody here a one.

As I've told him privately, it won't be forgotten.

THE START OF THIS

 

[theognis]

THE START OF THIS

That was after trying to handle it privately failed.

 

[fridayam]

Being partly to blame for such a kerfuffle, I do feel some guilt that I have not been around to partake of the debate. Mea Culpa: I have a day job and I was writing poems, for my sins.

I freely admit that I left a humerous (so I believed, but it's amazing what you think is funny late at night) comment on the following poem:
http://www.literotica.com/p/too-short
and I gave it the one star I thought it deserved. My comment, incidentally, was "Would you like to write a poem about that?", which in the circumstances doesn't seem to me to be too inappropriate. I apologise if that gave offence.

If I quoted private messages (I believe the technical term is Private Messages), I would have ample reason to respond as I did in the post on page one of this thread. However I do not quote Private Messages and I regret I responded publicly at all.

I also regret so many good peoples' time and energies have been sapped by such a silly dispute. My apologies to you all.

I would like to make clear that this is my only, last and final word on a sorry subject. Don't we have poems to read? And write?

 

[PoetGuy]

My! Poet Guy, a bit cranky before sleep, makes a few comments in response to some somewhat aggressive comments by Theognis, goes to bed, then comes back the next day to find the tiff has become the most popular topic on the PF&D forum.

Given, as he is, to overly formal pronouncements, Poet Guy will say, yea announce, the following:

• Anyone reading poems may vote however he or she wishes to vote, be it all fives, all ones, or something in between. If that means someone votes five on poems that other readers consider "tripe," that's just how things work. If that means someone votes one on a poem because they think the poet is a jerk, or simpleminded, or because the voter does not like how the poet has voted other poems, that's just how things work. Same old, same old, and no foul either way.
• If a poet receiving a vote he or she disagrees with gets angry about it, that is his or her privilege. This also happens in the "big time," by the way, where poets (e.g. Pulitzer winner Franz Wright) have offered to punch out a negative reviewer (e.g., William Logan). Poet Guy would hope that Literotica poets would direct their disappointment and anger to less aggressive channels, such as writing a mockingly nasty sonnet, but human reactions are variable.
• Poet Guy agrees with another thread that the reappearance of "coveted red 'H'" is a sign of health of the forum. That does not mean that he thinks those poems that have received H's are better than those that have not, nor that those poems receiving H's are even, in Poet Guy's opinion, good poems. But he does believe that the reappearance of H's means that more people are reading poems and engaging with them, which he thinks is good for the Literotica PF&D forum.

To speak directly to theognis re this controversy, Poet Guy would suggest you just get over it. If you want to feel that fridayam acted as a jerk, by all means feel that. Don't feel like you need to defend your opinion or justify your opinion about that. You apparently have sufficient cause to justify your feelings to yourself. Stop looking for external validation for it.

Poet Guy has opinions about various personas at the Literotica PF&D forum that vary from "very much like and agree with" to "obvious jerk". His opinions may sometimes make themselves manifest in his comments, though he hopes not too obviously.

In summary? People will disagree with you, and will think you and/or your poems suck. It is not worth worrying about.

 

[theognis]

Being partly to blame for such a kerfuffle, I do feel some guilt that I have not been around to partake of the debate. Mea Culpa: I have a day job and I was writing poems, for my sins.

I freely admit that I left a humerous (so I believed, but it's amazing what you think is funny late at night) comment on the following poem:
http://www.literotica.com/p/too-short
and I gave it the one star I thought it deserved. My comment, incidentally, was "Would you like to write a poem about that?", which in the circumstances doesn't seem to me to be too inappropriate. I apologise if that gave offence.

If I quoted private messages (I believe the technical term is Private Messages), I would have ample reason to respond as I did in the post on page one of this thread. However I do not quote Private Messages and I regret I responded publicly at all.

I also regret so many good peoples' time and energies have been sapped by such a silly dispute. My apologies to you all.

I would like to make clear that this is my only, last and final word on a sorry subject. Don't we have poems to read? And write?

That's not much of an apology, but I wish you had seen fit to do it sooner. I also regret that any of this ever happened.

 

[theognis]

My! Poet Guy, a bit cranky before sleep, makes a few comments in response to some somewhat aggressive comments by Theognis, goes to bed, then comes back the next day to find the tiff has become the most popular topic on the PF&D forum.

Given, as he is, to overly formal pronouncements, Poet Guy will say, yea announce, the following:

• Anyone reading poems may vote however he or she wishes to vote, be it all fives, all ones, or something in between. If that means someone votes five on poems that other readers consider "tripe," that's just how things work. If that means someone votes one on a poem because they think the poet is a jerk, or simpleminded, or because the voter does not like how the poet has voted other poems, that's just how things work. Same old, same old, and no foul either way.
• If a poet receiving a vote he or she disagrees with gets angry about it, that is his or her privilege. This also happens in the "big time," by the way, where poets (e.g. Pulitzer winner Franz Wright) have offered to punch out a negative reviewer (e.g., William Logan). Poet Guy would hope that Literotica poets would direct their disappointment and anger to less aggressive channels, such as writing a mockingly nasty sonnet, but human reactions are variable.
• Poet Guy agrees with another thread that the reappearance of "coveted red 'H'" is a sign of health of the forum. That does not mean that he thinks those poems that have received H's are better than those that have not, nor that those poems receiving H's are even, in Poet Guy's opinion, good poems. But he does believe that the reappearance of H's means that more people are reading poems and engaging with them, which he thinks is good for the Literotica PF&D forum.

To speak directly to theognis re this controversy, Poet Guy would suggest you just get over it. If you want to feel that fridayam acted as a jerk, by all means feel that. Don't feel like you need to defend your opinion or justify your opinion about that. You apparently have sufficient cause to justify your feelings to yourself. Stop looking for external validation for it.

Poet Guy has opinions about various personas at the Literotica PF&D forum that vary from "very much like and agree with" to "obvious jerk". His opinions may sometimes make themselves manifest in his comments, though he hopes not too obviously.

In summary? People will disagree with you, and will think you and/or your poems suck. It is not worth worrying about.

I see you are in a better mood than you were last night. I wish I were. All I have to say is I think it's best if I not submit any additional poems here. It's not worth the hassle.

 

[PoetGuy]

I see you are in a better mood than you were last night. I wish I were. All I have to say is I think it's best if I not submit any additional poems here. It's not worth the hassle.

Poet Guy's asperity last evening was not with theognis's complaint so much as where it was posted. If you want to hash at someone, hash away, just please don't do it on the "thank you" thread.

If you don't want to post poems here,that is, of course, your decision. Poet Guy would encourage you, though, to continue to post here, despite what you might feel is negative response. You have, or at least had, some H's, which most of us never get, and positive responses to at least some of your poems.

If you think you'll get better feedback elsewhere, then please tell Poet Guy where that is and he will follow you there. He has been to multiple forums and keeps coming back to the Literotica PF&D. That may just be simple-mindedness on his part, or the fact that the female poets here cross their legs without regard to quite how high their skirts ride up their poetical legs.

Your comfort zone may or will be different.

 

[theognis]

Poet Guy's asperity last evening was not with theognis's complaint so much as where it was posted. If you want to hash at someone, hash away, just please don't do it on the "thank you" thread.

If you don't want to post poems here,that is, of course, your decision. Poet Guy would encourage you, though, to continue to post here, despite what you might feel is negative response. You have, or at least had, some H's, which most of us never get, and positive responses to at least some of your poems.

If you think you'll get better feedback elsewhere, then please tell Poet Guy where that is and he will follow you there. He has been to multiple forums and keeps coming back to the Literotica PF&D. That may just be simple-mindedness on his part, or the fact that the female poets here cross their legs without regard to quite how high their skirts ride up their poetical legs.

Your comfort zone may or will be different.

I didn't, and don't, consider it the "thank you" thread, but now there is a thread here where people can discuss such matters openly. I won't be one of them, once replies to me cease, even though it appears I created the thread, oddly enough. I would like it if chipbutty could correct that.

 

[PoetGuy]

I didn't, and don't, consider it the "thank you" thread, but now there is a thread here where people can discuss such matters openly. I won't be one of them, once replies to me cease, even though it appears I created the thread, oddly enough. I would like it if chipbutty could correct that.

Your "authorship" is an artifact of the fact that the first post in the extracted thread was authored by you. Poet Guy does not think there is anything that can be done about that. (He had it happen to him once, and it pissed him off as well, though to no avail.)

He will not argue the "thank you" aspect of the "Keep the review thread clean" thread other than to suggest you read the OP and consider whether the posts you made were relevant there. Poet Guy thinks not, but recognizes that interpretations differ and that theognis may think that his post constituted "banter."

But enough quibbling irritability.

Poet Guy would like to see you, theognis, continue as a poetic contributor and commentor at Literotica. What makes forums work, in Poet Guy's opinion, is difference of opinion, or range of opinion, or at least someone having an opinion. You seem to have one, which is good.

Poet Guy does not imply that he will think your poems good. He hopes that you think that is a good thing.

In any case, he hopes you find a place for your poetry that is congenial to you and which satisfies your writing needs.

 

[theognis]

Your "authorship" is an artifact of the fact that the first post in the extracted thread was authored by you. Poet Guy does not think there is anything that can be done about that. (He had it happen to him once, and it pissed him off as well, though to no avail.)

He will not argue the "thank you" aspect of the "Keep the review thread clean" thread other than to suggest you read the OP and consider whether the posts you made were relevant there. Poet Guy thinks not, but recognizes that interpretations differ and that theognis may think that his post constituted "banter."

But enough quibbling irritability.

Poet Guy would like to see you, theognis, continue as a poetic contributor and commentor at Literotica. What makes forums work, in Poet Guy's opinion, is difference of opinion, or range of opinion, or at least someone having an opinion. You seem to have one, which is good.

Poet Guy does not imply that he will think your poems good. He hopes that you think that is a good thing.

In any case, he hopes you find a place for your poetry that is congenial to you and which satisfies your writing needs.

I appreciate what you've said. I hope you weren't responsible for the two additional one-bombs I got last night. I suspected you were, because they immediately followed your unhappy departure from last night's discussion.

At any rate, I no longer feel welcome here. Perhaps certain comments and multiple one-bombs shouldn't bother me, but they do. I think the fact I've done some editing for some very good authors who sometimes got a hundred or more fives in a row right out of the chute on a new chapter has something to do with my surprise and negative attitude about the ones.

I think it's best for all concerned that I chalk all this up to experience and move on.

 

[PoetGuy]

I appreciate what you've said. I hope you weren't responsible for the two additional one-bombs I got last night. I suspected you were, because they immediately followed your unhappy departure from last night's discussion.

At any rate, I no longer feel welcome here. Perhaps certain comments and multiple one-bombs shouldn't bother me, but they do. I think the fact I've done some editing for some very good authors who sometimes got a hundred or more fives in a row right out of the chute on a new chapter has something to do with my surprise and negative attitude about the ones.

I think it's best for all concerned that I chalk all this up to experience and move on.

Poet Guy has not, to his knowledge, voted on your poems. But if he had read your poems and voted them "1" are you saying that that would somehow be wrong?

Poet Guy does not wish to (overly) flog a dead horse here, but he thinks you place too much importance on the actual votes you get as opposed to what Poet Guy thinks is the real value of the forum, which is the community and its commentary (not always positive) on your poems.

Think about it this way--you have generated a lot of interest in you and your poems. People are likely reading your poems much more than they would have before all this nonsense started. Everyone now knows who you are, at least. Granted, you might think people will now discount your poems unfairly because they are unhappy with your comments. Poet Guy would like to think that that is not true, that in fact poeple will read your poems more carefully because of all this claptrap.

Again, doesn't mean people will like them, only that they'll be more likely to read them.

You probably (understandably) feel battered at this point. Poet Guy would suggest you spend a day or two away and rethink things. Literotica is a good place to post poems and get feedback (Poet Guy's opinion, of course). If that does not work for you, he hopes you find some better place (and tells him about it, as he said earlier).

In any case, Godspeed.

 

[theognis]

Poet Guy has not, to his knowledge, voted on your poems. But if he had read your poems and voted them "1" are you saying that that would somehow be wrong?

Poet Guy does not wish to (overly) flog a dead horse here, but he thinks you place too much importance on the actual votes you get as opposed to what Poet Guy thinks is the real value of the forum, which is the community and its commentary (not always positive) on your poems.

Think about it this way--you have generated a lot of interest in you and your poems. People are likely reading your poems much more than they would have before all this nonsense started. Everyone now knows who you are, at least. Granted, you might think people will now discount your poems unfairly because they are unhappy with your comments. Poet Guy would like to think that that is not true, that in fact poeple will read your poems more carefully because of all this claptrap.

Again, doesn't mean people will like them, only that they'll be more likely to read them.

You probably (understandably) feel battered at this point. Poet Guy would suggest you spend a day or two away and rethink things. Literotica is a good place to post poems and get feedback (Poet Guy's opinion, of course). If that does not work for you, he hopes you find some better place (and tells him about it, as he said earlier).

In any case, Godspeed.

You seem a pretty decent sort, basically, so I'll take you at your word on that. It seemed like a strange coincidence that the one-bombs hit immediately after you left, but it could have been someone else who did it. They landed on two poems within moments, causing me to shut down all voting before all my poems got hit. I don't see how both poems could possibly have been ones by any fair standard, so I think the bombs were malicious in intent, and I suspect they would have continued, one after one, had I not shut down the voting.

One thing I can say is if the people here want new poets to stick around, it would be best not to make snide comments and one-bomb them.

 

[butters]

I didn't, and don't, consider it the "thank you" thread, but now there is a thread here where people can discuss such matters openly. I won't be one of them, once replies to me cease, even though it appears I created the thread, oddly enough. I would like it if chipbutty could correct that.

I have amended the opening post to state this is not the case.

 

[butters]

You seem a pretty decent sort, basically, so I'll take you at your word on that. It seemed like a strange coincidence that the one-bombs hit immediately after you left, but it could have been someone else who did it. They landed on two poems within moments, causing me to shut down all voting before all my poems got hit. I don't see how both poems could possibly have been ones by any fair standard, so I think the bombs were malicious in intent, and I suspect they would have continued, one after one, had I not shut down the voting.

One thing I can say is if the people here want new poets to stick around, it would be best not to make snide comments and one-bomb them.

And the trouble appears to be that you here, and frequently, are tarring all poets here with the same disgruntled brush as the one used to respond to fridayam.

 

[Senna Jawa]

As I've stated previously, I did attempt to deal with this privately, but got no satisfaction.

That's a revealing statement:

so, if you don't get no satisfaction then it is to you a free for all, you're entitled then to break any good principles, etc.?

Since a couple of thousands of years ago, and Basho said some of such things very explicitly: if you want to be a good poet then don't treat yourself so seriously, like you were the belly button of the universe. So someone gave you 1. So what?

I had a member of this board to go after my Google knols, he sprinkled them with 1s. So what? - big deal

 

[theognis]

I have amended the opening post to state this is not the case.

Thank you. I appreciate your doing that.

 

[theognis]

And the trouble appears to be that you here, and frequently, are tarring all poets here with the same disgruntled brush as the one used to respond to fridayam.

There is no way you can fairly interpret anything I've said as throwing everyone into the same bag.
Most of the people here are decent folks, I would say.

One or two bad apples can spoil a bunch, unfortunately.

 

[theognis]

That's a revealing statement:

so, if you don't get no satisfaction then it is to you a free for all, you're entitled then to break any good principles, etc.?

Since a couple of thousands of years ago, and Basho said some of such things very explicitly: if you want to be a good poet then don't treat yourself so seriously, like you were the belly button of the universe. So someone gave you 1. So what?

I had a member of this board to go after my Google knols, he sprinkled them with 1s. So what? - big deal

Some people don't mind being insulted. Others do.

 

[theognis]

I'd like to point out to those of you who have said you have no problem with one votes that the vote represents hate.

 

[theognis]

I'd also like to say I didn't come here to insult or one-bomb anybody, and I didn't expect those things to happen to me.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

have you always had a problem with paranoia or is it a recent thing?

 

[Liar]

I'd also like to say I didn't come here to insult or one-bomb anybody, and I didn't expect those things to happen to me.

It wouldn't be life if it wasn't full of surprises.

Now, the question is, should one choose to focus on the dissappointments?

 

[theognis]

have you always had a problem with paranoia or is it a recent thing?

What's one more insult, right?

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you don't realize, out of ignorance, that the one star vote is, by Literotica's definition, intended for something hated. I'm hardly paranoid. I have in reality been insulted, repeatedly now, and my understanding of what a one star vote represents is accurate.

 

[theognis]

It wouldn't be life if it wasn't full of surprises.

Now, the question is, should one choose to focus on the dissappointments?

True, and soon this will be behind me, I hope.