"To keep the review thread clean..."

[Cub4ucme]

.[/QUOTE]

Gosh Andy, did you forget to mention all the copywrite information you've been quoting here to the others at the Poetic Constellations site, or do you hold them and yourself to a different standard?

It was interesting to visit Poetic Constellations and see another side of you
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

In some sense you are right.

In another sense it doesn't prove anything.


At least there the poems are ussually in the public domain or at least I would guess they are and the exposure in the particular space is very limited.

Does that make it right----------- NO!

Does it make me a hypocrite; in some sense, yes, and for that I apoligize.

My reaction here had to do with poetry that is quite contemporary.
Poets struggle today to gain commercial validity. The poetry posted
there does not fit the same mold.


I won't double talk, it's not my style.

If you look for a crack in any wall you will eventually find it.
That said, it still doesn't change anything at all regarding
my points.

best,
andy

 

[champagne1982]

the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section,<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


Welcome to the land of supreme ignorance.
I hope the zookeeper keeps you well.

best,
andy

read the whole fuckin thing andy. just go read it somewhere else. I don't give a rat's ass. I don't share anyone else's work, without citing the author and publisher. This is not anything I care to share with you. If we were in a bar or at a gathering, I don't think this would come up as a meaningful conversation, unless it were to get your mouth slapped as soon as you opened it. You're insulting and boorish.

 

[Cub4ucme]

read the whole fuckin thing andy. just go read it somewhere else. I don't give a rat's ass. I don't share anyone else's work, without citing the author and publisher. This is not anything I care to share with you. If we were in a bar or at a gathering, I don't think this would come up as a meaningful conversation, unless it were to get your mouth slapped as soon as you opened it. You're insulting and boorish.

Is that your last words on the subject?????--- I sure hope so.

Just know that I can walk away from an ignorant person just as fast
as I can engage one.

You could smack my face. It wouldn't prove anything besides
what I have previously stated about your personality.

Repetition gets ridiculous; especially when ignorance is loud.


andy

 

[4degrees]

anna, congrats! how amazing eh? i hope it all smoothes out soon as far as your sickness. i'm so happy for you.

too bad someone had to start saying dumb shit in this thread, but i suppose our space for arguments is very limited. like, no way could it go somewhere else...haha.

<not directed at ang or champ or anna, of course. just the jerk arguing with them>

 

[champagne1982]

Is that your last words on the subject?????--- I sure hope so.

Just know that I can walk away from an ignorant person just as fast
as I can engage one.

You could smack my face. It wouldn't prove anything besides
what I have previously stated about your personality.

Repetition gets ridiculous; especially when ignorance is loud.


andy

Don't be an ass. I wouldn't have to slap you. Your mother would.

 

[annaswirls]

Give it a rest, Drew. annaswirls quoted an article out of the copyright laws of the United States of America in an earlier post that clearly stated that no laws were broken and no fair use rules were bent. The relevant line is below, the formatting is mine, inserted for the sake of clarity:
the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. I'm sorry you lost.

Carrie, you seem to have left off the last sentence, which is quite important, "In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include" along with the four points that follow which actually describe the factors to determine whether or not the use is actually "fair use."

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

Ange, you have said that you decide on an individual basis who you do and who you do not post...which is great, you know the four factors and must go through them in making your decision-- but in GENERAL....people, come on, is it really so clear, that posting complete poems without an attempt to contact a living, recently published, poet is legal, let alone the right thing to do?

There are more than a few teachers in this forum who have taught poetry in the past and maybe that would qualify their posting of a poem you like as "educating" the forum, but in GENERAL, does this mean everyone qualifies as "educator" who has a keyboard and the ability to cut/paste in its entirety, something they happen to like here, without attempting to contact a living, recently poet as the legal, right thing to do? Sure, everyone is entitled to their opinion and to share it, but what qualifies as "education?" I certainly do not feel qualified to deem myself as "educator" of poetry with literotica.com as my "classroom" and therefor no longer feel that I have the right to lift someone's poem without permission.

I like this link because it is not written for educators.... which in this forum, we really are not.

Copyright Law of the United States of America

§ 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use38

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include —

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

 

[annaswirls]

anna, congrats! how amazing eh? i hope it all smoothes out soon as far as your sickness. i'm so happy for you.

too bad someone had to start saying dumb shit in this thread, but i suppose our space for arguments is very limited. like, no way could it go somewhere else...haha.

<not directed at ang or champ or anna, of course. just the jerk arguing with them>

hi cutie, thank you! it is pretty amazing, crazy thing, kicking around growing kidneys and the like. and arguments are good, silly name calling games are um well. let's say I do not like them, they serve no purpose, educational or entertainment for me.

 

[4degrees]

hi cutie, thank you! it is pretty amazing, crazy thing, kicking around growing kidneys and the like. and arguments are good, silly name calling games are um well. let's say I do not like them, they serve no purpose, educational or entertainment for me.

heh, i'm 'cutie'!

you should see me in my tie and sweater vest at work....

 

[annaswirls]

heh, i'm 'cutie'!

you should see me in my tie and sweater vest at work....

sweater vest????
I think you are in for a new AV....

 

[champagne1982]

I know I didn't quote the factors which should be considered in determining fair use. I didn't because the real issue was the breaking of a law. The copyright is the legal ownership of a work, to comment on a poem, which is included in that commentary, is not an infringement of copyright nor is it breaking the law, so I didn't think including fair use guidelines was exactly relevant to the argument.

That's all. I'm starting to lose my acuity in this argument so I must beg off the debate. I don't mean to say that it's wrong or right to include poems by other poets for discussion, I'm just saying that it's not illegal to do so.

And yep, it's semantics, but that's all argument can ever be.

(Congrats on the bundle. I think you're going to be having so much fun with baby that the morning sickness thing will shrink away along with your bladder capacity.)

 

[4degrees]

sweater vest????
I think you are in for a new AV....

oh haha not on your life!!

well ok here's a new av.

its ever so fitting.

 

[annaswirls]

oh haha not on your life!!

well ok here's a new av.

its ever so fitting.

hmmm if only I had more illustrative talent, I would draw a sweater vest and tie on for you

 

[annaswirls]

I know I didn't quote the factors which should be considered in determining fair use. I didn't because the real issue was the breaking of a law. The copyright is the legal ownership of a work, to comment on a poem, which is included in that commentary, is not an infringement of copyright nor is it breaking the law, so I didn't think including fair use guidelines was exactly relevant to the argument.

But Carrie, don't you see that the last sentence leading to those four factors are what makes the use legal or not legal? The opening statement is not the law, it is the premise. It is saying "this is not illegal IF....." so the IF is the important part.

That's all. I'm starting to lose my acuity in this argument so I must beg off the debate. I don't mean to say that it's wrong or right to include poems by other poets for discussion, I'm just saying that it's not illegal to do so.

And yep, it's semantics, but that's all argument can ever be.

Not true. My goodness, I am beginning to doubt my ability to read. I have to ask my super smart brother who knows about these things, and surely he will find me a case or two that have set precidence in this very issue. Or maybe he will be the one who shows me what I am missing in the text???

(Congrats on the bundle. I think you're going to be having so much fun with baby that the morning sickness thing will shrink away along with your bladder capacity.)

haha! You are right! It is always a trade off but I know it will get better and once the little dude starts moving around in a noticable way, the inconveniences lose all importance.

I cannot believe I am still awake, what the hell. All this legal and moral discussion has gotten me into insomnia.

 

[Cub4ucme]

Don't be an ass. I wouldn't have to slap you. Your mother would.

My mother is deceased.

Thanks for reminding me.

best,
andy

 

[Cub4ucme]

That's all. I'm starting to lose my acuity in this argument so I must beg off the debate. I don't mean to say that it's wrong or right to include poems by other poets for discussion, I'm just saying that it's not illegal to do so.

And yep, it's semantics, but that's all argument can ever be.

capacity.)

No it isn't semantics and YES it is in violation of copyright law.

I hate cliches but, I can't help myself: "You can't beat a dead horse."


best,
andy

 

[Aunty Muse]

No it isn't semantics and YES it is in violation of copyright law.

I hate cliches but, I can't help myself: "You can't beat a dead horse."


best,
andy

Of course you can! It won't feel it, but you can certainly do it.

I haven't read the rest of this 'discussion', but is all of your logic as specious?

Aunty Muse

 

[unpredictablebijou]

to aunty muse...

to answer your question:

yes. it is.

bijou

 

[annaswirls]

I dare say this is less than 20 years old...

What did Billy say when you asked to post his poem???

Andy posts Billy Collins

This is my last time playing this game with you.

The poetry of Billy Collins that extists on the net is free for public use.

Do some fuckin' research and then get back to me <snip pointless namecalling>

He releases poems out of collections and they enter into the public domain as a means to market his poetry.

It works for him!


<snip personal attack>

[/quote]

Okay I have done some research and I could use some help. Please tell me how is it that you can tell which of Billy Collins' poetry on the net is free for public us and which has just been copied/pasted? Does it specifically say that his poem that you posted is now public domain on the site where you found it or has Mr. Collins said that anything of his found on the net is public domain?

If it IS public domain, then you should state that when you copy/paste it, so that you can let people know that you respect (and feel very passionately about) copyright law, yes?

 

[annaswirls]

Here is how poets.org cites his poem, apparently they got permission.

and No, Andy, this is not me trying to task you, I am just trying to figure out the right way of doing things, and since you seem to be interested in this copyright law, I thought you might be interested in this particular case.

poets.org

Fishing on the Susquehanna in July
by Billy Collins

I have never been fishing on the Susquehanna

or on any river for that matter

to be perfectly honest.

dense trees along the banks,



From Picnic, Lightning by Billy Collins. Copyright © 1998 by Billy Collins. Reprinted by permission of the University of Pittsburgh Press. All rights reserved.

 

[champagne1982]

My mother is deceased.

Thanks for reminding me.

best,
andy

Poor orphan.

I think it's important that we all honour our parents, living or dead. Don't you? All my respects to your deceased parent.

As for the rest of the chit chat: you can claim superior knowledge of the law in the US. I don't mind. It really doesn't apply to my particular citizenship so perhaps that's why I'm a little cavalier in this instance. If we were to go to court on it, my lawyer would make a tonne of money arguing with your lawyer who would be making a ton of money, and I'm betting the case still wouldn't sell the poet's literature.

I entered into the fluff and feathers all covered in tar and I'm willing to sit here and turn into a duck, but I did so simply because you saw fit to air a bitter and acrimonious attack on people I, perhaps misguidedly, but that's not for you to say, admire and enjoy corresponding with. Maybe all I should have done was report the post I found most offensive and had it removed.

I didn't and well, mea culpa.

 

[Tathagata]

I entered into the fluff and feathers all covered in tar and I'm willing to sit here and turn into a duck, but I did so simply because you saw fit to air a bitter and acrimonious attack on people I, perhaps misguidedly, but that's not for you to say, admire and enjoy corresponding with. Maybe all I should have done was report the post I found most offensive and had it removed.

I didn't and well, mea culpa.

you covered in feathers is kinda hot....

 

[champagne1982]

you covered in feathers is kinda hot....

QUACK

it's made of painted coffee cans...

 

[Tathagata]

QUACK

it's made of painted coffee cans...

caffeine inspired art
better living through chemistry

 

[champagne1982]

caffeine inspired art
better living through chemistry

We should collaborate on an illustrated poem. Your words above and that pic of mine. hehehe

 

[Tathagata]

We should collaborate on an illustrated poem. Your words above and that pic of mine. hehehe

i'll see what i can do