"To keep the review thread clean..."

[theognis]

theognis,

I got your question about Want me to leave room for cream? But since you don't have PMs enabled, I can't respond. Can you PM me and send me an email or enable PMs and I'll explain?

PM's now allowed.

 

[butters]

thanks, theo, for the comments white flags has swapped numerous times between 'subconsciousness' to 'subconscious', since i can't decide 100% myself. it's not a new one, and i still can't make up my mind. 'subconsciousness' gives me the smoother read (to my ears) whereas 'subconscious' demands that longer pause at the line break, and can't be modified to 'the subconscious' since that throws the beat well and truly off. i did look at the definitions closely, before subbing, and it's ok to use 'subconsiousness' there. that's not to say i won't swap back again in a few months time. it's one poem, one word, and yet gives me all sorts of niggles over time.

sigh

 

[Liar]

And Chip that "here" you asked about? I originally had "hear" but decided if I changed it to the spelling you see now it might do what you described: make the reader unsure of what it meant or should be. Sometimes I like to play with that kind of ambiguity and see what it does.

Oh you devious woman.

Ehm.

 

[Angeline]

Oh you devious woman.

Ehm.

Can we agree on clever?

 

[butters]

Can we agree on clever?

hear here

 

[theognis]

thanks, theo, for the comments white flags has swapped numerous times between 'subconsciousness' to 'subconscious', since i can't decide 100% myself. it's not a new one, and i still can't make up my mind. 'subconsciousness' gives me the smoother read (to my ears) whereas 'subconscious' demands that longer pause at the line break, and can't be modified to 'the subconscious' since that throws the beat well and truly off. i did look at the definitions closely, before subbing, and it's ok to use 'subconsiousness' there. that's not to say i won't swap back again in a few months time. it's one poem, one word, and yet gives me all sorts of niggles over time.

sigh

You're welcome, of course, dear lady.

Not to persist, but 'the subconscious' follows the beat of the poem nearly the same as 'subconsciousness' to my ear. Now I'm wondering if I'm hearing it wrong, however.

I think I have a lot to learn about this poetry business, and the more of the really good poems I read here, the more I realize how true that is.

I'll be honest, I'm really surprised how good some of the poetry is here.

 

[theognis]

InkWolfe

"And then you whisper goodbye and then you are gone, lover."

Perhaps this instead:

And then you whisper goodbye, and you are gone

Just a suggestion.

 

[Angeline]

hear here

LOL! And sometimes "lucky."

 

[butters]

You're welcome, of course, dear lady.

Not to persist, but 'the subconscious' follows the beat of the poem nearly the same as 'subconsciousness' to my ear. Now I'm wondering if I'm hearing it wrong, however.

I think I have a lot to learn about this poetry business, and the more of the really good poems I read here, the more I realize how true that is.

I'll be honest, I'm really surprised how good some of the poetry is here.

the emphasis, as i read it, theo, falls upon the 'con' and 'ness'

subconsciousness
speaks truer than
the heart

if i use subconscious on its own, this doesn't change, but i am left with that longer pause at the line break (and, as i already said, i am ambivalent about which way to go there)

however, if i went with the subconscious, it would make (to my ear) three short accented beats as so: 'thesubconscious'. i wouldn't be happy with that kind of hasty read of the word, it'd throw the whole pacing of the rest. but then that is just how i read it. there may even be some difference between anglo-sax and US vocalisation that might be at play here, too. i dunno

 

[theognis]

the emphasis, as i read it, theo, falls upon the 'con' and 'ness'

subconsciousness
speaks truer than
the heart

if i use subconscious on its own, this doesn't change, but i am left with that longer pause at the line break (and, as i already said, i am ambivalent about which way to go there)

however, if i went with the subconscious, it would make (to my ear) three short accented beats as so: 'thesubconscious'. i wouldn't be happy with that kind of hasty read of the word, it'd throw the whole pacing of the rest. but then that is just how i read it. there may even be some difference between anglo-sax and US vocalisation that might be at play here, too. i dunno

Okay. Show me the emphasis with 'subconscious' as you read it, so I can compare it to 'subconscienceness', if you will. Thanks.

 

[butters]

Okay. Show me the emphasis with 'subconscious' as you read it, so I can compare it to 'subconsciousness', if you will. Thanks.

subconsciousness


subconscious {...} <--- = emphasised pause

 

[theognis]

subconsciousness


subconscious {...} <--- = emphasised pause

I think you may be correct about the difference in our reading being vocalization, or dialect. For me, adding 'the' puts the emphasis in 'subconscious' on 'sub', not 'con'.

 

[Angeline]

I think you may be correct about the difference in our reading being vocalization, or dialect. For me, adding 'the' puts the emphasis in 'subconscious' on 'sub', not 'con'.

For me this is why it's important to know something, even if just a little, about the culture and/or time from which a poem was produced. I feel that it gives me a context in which to understand the poem. If I don't have some context I'll likely misread, not that it matters so much in general, but it does to me. And it some cases I feel I get a much deeper understanding. For example, one of my favorite poets (who influences me a lot) is Forugh Farrokhzad, an Iranian poet who wrote in the 1950s-60s. Her poetry is beautiful to me and I think it would be even without any context outside the poems, but knowing what I do about her makes them much more moving and meaningful to me.

 

[vrosej10]

Hi Guys

Thanks for all your comments on my recent poems. I have issues with length. I am better shorter. In the real world I am the queen of the smart arse comment as you walk out hte door. I think I sometimes need to get to the point. To this end, I have rewritten an earlier poem I was in love with and it should be up in the next couple of days. IT's called The Desert Framed Her. I'd really appreciated feedback.

Cheers
Vee

 

[butters]

Hi Guys

Thanks for all your comments on my recent poems. I have issues with length. I am better shorter. In the real world I am the queen of the smart arse comment as you walk out hte door. I think I sometimes need to get to the point. To this end, I have rewritten an earlier poem I was in love with and it should be up in the next couple of days. IT's called The Desert Framed Her. I'd really appreciated feedback.

Cheers
Vee

oh i remember that one! vivid picture


as for my suggestions, as you know already, that's all they are. just another way of looking at your piece

 

[butters]

thanks to theo, ang, espie, v, tess and friday for all your comments on white flags, bleeders and watching for boats. cheers, guys

 

[twelveoone]

the emphasis, as i read it, theo, falls upon the 'con' and 'ness'

subconsciousness
speaks truer than
the heart

if i use subconscious on its own, this doesn't change, but i am left with that longer pause at the line break (and, as i already said, i am ambivalent about which way to go there)

however, if i went with the subconscious, it would make (to my ear) three short accented beats as so: 'thesubconscious'. i wouldn't be happy with that kind of hasty read of the word, it'd throw the whole pacing of the rest. but then that is just how i read it. there may even be some difference between anglo-sax and US vocalisation that might be at play here, too. i dunno

You play the sax? Alto?
Banjo, US is banjo territory
...and banjo boy upon the bridge
plays alligator lullabies
lulls us in, lulls us in
...sometimes I amaze myself... Hey I left comments too, one not so good

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

My thanks to fridayam for the recommendation and Koba, Angeline, theognis, fridayam, Esperanza, vrosej, chipbutty and twelveoone for kind comments.

You guys keep my wheels spinning.

 

[butters]

You play the sax? Alto?
Banjo, US is banjo territory
...and banjo boy upon the bridge
plays alligator lullabies
lulls us in, lulls us in
...sometimes I amaze myself... Hey I left comments too, one not so good

sometimes you amaze me, too

thanks for the comments, dewd. all are valuable in order for me to see how others perceive what i've submitted.

the bound thing .. i was kinda hoping people might go there anyway, with hands behind their backs. guess mebbe not. le sigh would some punctuation have helped prevent that misread, dya think?

 

[greenmountaineer]

Thanks to chipbutty and 12o1 for the mention of "Early Renaissance Men Having Grappa" in the NPR as well as those who took the time to comment direclty.

 

[twelveoone]

Thanks to chipbutty and 12o1 for the mention of "Early Renaissance Men Having Grappa" in the NPR as well as those who took the time to comment direclty.

To be honest, I can't imagine that monologue taking place, the Italians had enough local problems at the time, the papacy made some overtures to the Mongols, about fighting the Moslems, and I think it was Venice or Genoa that was in competition with each other for trade from the East. The colour was there, but it is a strange vehicle to put it in. Unless this is really about something else. Ah the power of Allusion.
Anyway, congrats on the E. May many more of them come your way.

 

[fridayam]

Many thanks (more than I can adumbrate) to V and 12 for the recommendations, and to them and Angeline, chip, Tess, Espie and theognis for their lovely comments on "Taurus" and "Sea-otter (for Angeline)". I am eternally grateful for the time and energy

 

[PoetGuy]

Thanks to chipbutty, Tristesse2, twelveoone, and vrosej10 for their comments on "Cherokee" and to Angeline, chipbutty, fridayam, Liar, and twelveoone for their comments on "The Dead Rilke at Salomé’s Grave." The "less than fawning" nature of the comments on the latter poem were appreciated--Poet Guy was trying for something that apparently does not work all that well for most readers. He appreciates the honesty of comment from you all.

He also appreciates greenmountaineer's lengthy comment on "La Diada de Sant Jordi," and the thoughts behind it.

Poet Guy has been busy in the Real World and will try and catch up on his comments on others' poems. He appreciates everyone's efforts, both in commenting and in writing poems.

May you all be well.

 

[butters]

thanks, guys, for all your comments and suggestions. they are much appreciated.

isn't it great to see the NP's taking off with some decent writing lately, instead of the rare gems being hidden amidst an open sewer of nastie stuff. makes me feel all ... proud of you, damnit! *wipes eye*

 

[bogusagain]

Thanks for your comments everyone.

I think you are spot on with your comment Ange.