literotica all about sex-positivity. So why such moralizing comments on Loving Wives?

[RejectReality]

I don't agree that it's the majority of authors, although there are certainly the occasional stories that don't wear its kink out and proud. A quick scan of the last seven days of stories and most are pretty clear - and you've still got quite a few cuck stories, a few sissy stories and at least one story that looks at first glance like it belongs in incest. I don't think its helpful to inflate the category with stories that don't really fit within that category - perhaps there is a direct line from hotwife to smoking or panty wetting, but I don't really see it.

There's more callout there than when I usually look. Most of the time, I have literally zero idea what any story that isn't cuckold or femdom is about.

There's little that can be done about the migrants with the state of LW, BDSM, and even Lesbian Sex. The readership in those categories have massive gatekeeping issues, and fetish is a logical landing point for most of those marginalized authors.

 

[mildlyaroused]

I think this about sums up the LW experience:

 

[Rob_Royale]

I think this about sums up the LW experience:
View attachment 2335778

 

[LMWM321]

WOW!!! I want to thank EVERYONE who read Midnight Yoga As Husband Sleeps and offered comments.

I asked for feedback and I got it - I very much appreciate that. And it was direct without being derogatory. There's too many of you to thank by name but if you posted about it, you're included.

A couple things: First, I REALLY missed the mark if anyone thought this was a gangbang story. And I blame my story-telling for that of course. While discussing the story-line with my yoga-enthusiast wife her first reaction was "Just don't make it seem like a Gangbang. I would never be a part of that." Our definition of gang bangs has always been several guys tossing a woman around like a rag doll as each guy pushes the other out of the way to get at whatever orifice he was now interested in. The guys were in control, as the woman looked terrified. Nope, that sounds awful. So I tried to make it very woman-centric where Donna (Yoga Studio Owner) picked the men, and set rules that put the women in control. The woman alone picked the sex position, the pace, plus it was sex with ONE guy at time, only when summoned by the woman, and it was PIV sex only. The idea was sex that scratches an itch to be with someone other than a spouse/partner - which is common desire, to be sure - but minimizes chance of attachments forming or other drama. That was my intention, though I obviously didn't quite convert.

I also missed the mark if this sounded like a cuckhold story. The overall premise was an attractive mature woman looking to revisit a bit of the promiscuity of her youth while she still had the good health to do so. To my understanding, cuckholding is when a woman uses the fact she's having sex with others as a way to taunt her husband, put him down, humiliate him. I don't think I included any of that.. That said, she DID insist that he orally ravish her to make him a part of the group sex so she wouldn't feel guilty about what she did. After all, even though he approved of her having NSA sex, sex with 5 guys in one evening was by far the wildest thing she's ever done. And yes, truth be told orally ravishing my gorgeous wife is a personal obsession of mine, so there's a bit of projection going on there .

And I should have done a better job explaining that BOTH Doug and Maria have NSA sex outside the marriage - and both are accepting of it, including risk of STDs. The only requirement is they let the other know what they did soon afterward - prior approval not expected.

As to which category? Well, it might have fit in Mature or Group Sex, but I stuck with Loving Wives b/c it seems to be visited by more readers. ..And we all want our stories read, right?

I will say, however, that even though this story generated the most hateful comments of my four stories during it's first 24 hours, it has also generated the most Views and "Added to favorites".. I'd like to believe it's because the story excited/ titillated people, but it could also just be because it was only one page so it was easy to get through.

Anyway, anytime you have to explain a story the way I just did, you've failed. I accept that. And will do better. Thanks again everyone!

Added: I will be posting "Midnight Yoga Rules" later today. It's a one page list of the rules that participants must sign to be a part of the night.

 

[SimonDoom]

WOW!!! I want to thank EVERYONE who read Midnight Yoga As Husband Sleeps and offered comments.

I asked for feedback and I got it - I very much appreciate that. And it was direct without being derogatory. There's too many of you to thank by name but if you posted about it, you're included.

A couple things: First, I REALLY missed the mark if anyone thought this was a gangbang story. And I blame my story-telling for that of course. While discussing the story-line with my yoga-enthusiast wife her first reaction was "Just don't make it seem like a Gangbang. I would never be a part of that." Our definition of gang bangs has always been several guys tossing a woman around like a rag doll as each guy pushes the other out of the way to get at whatever orifice he was now interested in. The guys were in control, as the woman looked terrified. Nope, that sounds awful. So I tried to make it very woman-centric where Donna (Yoga Studio Owner) picked the men, and set rules that put the women in control. The woman alone picked the sex position, the pace, plus it was sex with ONE guy at time, only when summoned by the woman, and it was PIV sex only. The idea was sex that scratches an itch to be with someone other than a spouse/partner - which is common desire, to be sure - but minimizes chance of attachments forming or other drama. That was my intention, though I obviously didn't quite convert.

I also missed the mark if this sounded like a cuckhold story. The overall premise was an attractive mature woman looking to revisit a bit of the promiscuity of her youth while she still had the good health to do so. To my understanding, cuckholding is when a woman uses the fact she's having sex with others as a way to taunt her husband, put him down, humiliate him. I don't think I included any of that.. That said, she DID insist that he orally ravish her to make him a part of the group sex so she wouldn't feel guilty about what she did. After all, even though he approved of her having NSA sex, sex with 5 guys in one evening was by far the wildest thing she's ever done. And yes, truth be told orally ravishing my gorgeous wife is a personal obsession of mine, so there's a bit of projection going on there .

And I should have done a better job explaining that BOTH Doug and Maria have NSA sex outside the marriage - and both are accepting of it, including possible STDs. The only requirement is they let the other know what they did soon afterward - prior approval not expected.

You didn't miss the mark at all. I read the story. It's just right for the Loving Wives category. You aren't obligated to explain every single background detail about their relationship to hold the reader's hand. Some readers hate this kind of content, and there's nothing you can do about them. They hate stories where husbands allow wives to have sex outside marriage, whether or not humiliation is involved. To this sort of reader, it's inherently humiliating. You cannot reason with or appease these readers, so don't try to tailor your story to their own silly story needs. Ignore them, or enjoy the loopiness of their comments. You got some doozies--like the one who wanted to see the yoga studio bombed.

I thought it was crystal clear from your story that a) the sex was consensual, and b) the husband approved of and encouraged the wife's activities.

 

[Lifestyle66]

First of all, the story is 'fine'. You can critique the plot or the dialogue or whatever, but at a basic level it tickles the fetish it's going for and "if it's the sort of thing you like, you'll probably like it."

The thing with what I'm going to call 'willing cuckold' stories is that there isn't a fully natural place for them.

Loving Wives: Should be the right category but attracts hate. At the very least the stories rub up wrongly against the 'Heartbreak cheating' ones.

...

Yes, the story is fine. It's a story as the author wrote it. But the author asked WHY readers go to LW to read stories they will probably hate.

The majority of those readers in LW who HATE stories there do so because they hate ALL extra-marital sex. They go there looking for those extra-marital "cheating wife" stories to look for the consequences. There is no other category for them. And any argument about "tags" is irrelevant, because most readers don't "search" tags to find new stories. They read the stories coming out as "New", based on just the title and description.

And contrary to what some femdom authors here profess, those readers don't hate women. They hate extra-marital sex and look for the cheater to be punished, or at least end in divorce. Their ratings are valued based on the degree of punishment for the cheater.

I wrote a dozen 750-word LW stories in February, with different scenarios to gauge the audience reactions. The lowest rated ones have an unrepentant wife continuing the activities, without her husband's approval. They seem to accept stories told from a POV other than an accepting and approving husband, which shows the accepting husband in a negative light (ie. stories told from her lover's POV showing her husband as weak.)

When I write my own LW stories, I expect the reactions of extra-marital sex haters, and take their hits accordingly. They are correct in their own opinions that's it's extra-marital sex (even consensual) and they hate it.

In my critique here for the author, I gave my opinions of why this story is trending so low in the ratings. The author threw in at the end of the story the femdom, humiliation, cum-eating demand by the wife, insisting "prove that you love me". That "PROVE IT" demand was a Dom-thing, and it turned an otherwise "extra-marital fun, consensual wife-sharing" story into a checklist of other things which slowly turned off portions of the potentially appreciative "sharing-lover" audience.

 

[Seadog777]

The majority of those readers in LW who HATE stories there do so because they hate ALL extra-marital sex.

Yep.

They go there looking for those extra-marital "cheating wife" stories to look for the consequences.

Yep.

There is no other category for them. And any argument about "tags" is irrelevant, because most readers don't "search" tags to find new stories. They read the stories coming out as "New", based on just the title and description.

To be fair, when I read that's what I do.
I go to new, start at the top, and start reading.
If the story doesn't catch my attention on that first page, I move onto the next story.

And contrary to what some femdom authors here profess, those readers don't hate women. They hate extra-marital sex and look for the cheater to be punished, or at least end in divorce.

Yep.

Their ratings are valued based on the degree of punishment for the cheater.

Exactly.

Everything you said here was correct.

 

[SimonDoom]

In my critique here for the author, I gave my opinions of why this story is trending so low in the ratings. The author threw in at the end of the story the femdom, humiliation, cum-eating demand by the wife, insisting "prove that you love me". That "PROVE IT" demand was a Dom-thing, and it turned an otherwise "extra-marital fun, consensual wife-sharing" story into a checklist of other things which slowly turned off portions of the potentially appreciative "sharing-lover" audience.

This is a sound point. Personally, I think writers should feel free to throw in whatever kinks turn them on, but in this case you could say that, from the point of view of some readers, it's a kink too many, and the fact that it was thrown in at the very end would be jarring to some. It was a little bit of a turnoff for me, personally. I enjoy the hotwife fantasy and hotwife stories, but I don't enjoy humiliation and don't find husbands eating other men's cum erotically enjoyable. But if others do, that's fine.

 

[Lifestyle66]

This is a sound point. Personally, I think writers should feel free to throw in whatever kinks turn them on, but in this case you could say that, from the point of view of some readers, it's a kink too many, and the fact that it was thrown in at the very end would be jarring to some. It was a little bit of a turnoff for me, personally. I enjoy the hotwife fantasy and hotwife stories, but I don't enjoy humiliation and don't find husbands eating other men's cum erotically enjoyable. But if others do, that's fine.

Exactly!

As Seadog said too, I read from the New lists, not tags. I fall into that LW reader audience minority (less than 50%) of enjoying the consensual "let's all have fun with extra-marital sex". But the deviations from just MF extra-marital sex starts me down the checklist of other likes and dislikes.

 

[LMWM321]

The author threw in at the end of the story the femdom, humiliation, cum-eating demand by the wife, insisting "prove that you love me". That "PROVE IT" demand was a Dom-thing, and it turned an otherwise "extra-marital fun, consensual wife-sharing" story into a checklist of other things which slowly turned off portions of the potentially appreciative "sharing-lover" audience.Well, to explain my kink, I'd be perfectly fine with what my wife was asking - which was hours

Well... to be clear, I find the idea of eating another man's wet cum to be utterly revolting. ..But going down on my wife the morning after at which point the cum has dried or has absorbed, I'm totally fine with - obviously.

And there was this statement before she asked me to do it

"Giving me your assurances and showing me you're hard dick isn't enough - I need more. I need to feel like you were a part of the debauchery too."

But you're comments are still very much appreciated and you seem to be very much in the majority on this.

But I will say, its rating (as well as Added To Favorites, and new Followers) is higher this early on than my other works. ..Not that that is saying much.

As for men going to LW to read about a woman's demise after non-monogamy, why not have a category called "Revenge" or "Pays the price" or something where consensual non-monogamy isn't conflated with Sex outside of marriage without consent?

 

[SimonDoom]

As Seadog said too, I read from the New lists, not tags. I fall into that LW reader audience minority (less than 50%) of enjoying the consensual "let's all have fun with extra-marital sex". But the deviations from just MF extra-marital sex starts me down the checklist of other likes and dislikes.

I suspect you and Seadog are the norm. I think many people take the easiest path to find stories. They just go to the new lists, scan them, and click on what looks interesting. You can fret over tags and disclaimers and what-not all you want as an author, and it's probably not going to matter to many readers, who will dive into the story, start reading, and stop with disgust when they get to their own personal "WTF!" moment.

 

[Seadog777]

I suspect you and Seadog are the norm.

Is being "normal" OK??? It's probably better than where I was in past though.

There are some things that I'm not a fan of in my personal life, but I can disregard that in the context of a story.

A lot of the Loving Wives readers can't seem to separate the two.

 

[NoTalentHack]

As for men going to LW to read about a woman's demise after non-monogamy, why not have a category called "Revenge" or "Pays the price" or something where consensual non-monogamy isn't conflated with Sex outside of marriage without consent?

*taps the sign* It's a long story, going back a couple decades at this point. In an ideal world, would things get updated? Maybe. Even if it did, though, people would still post stories in the "wrong" category, and others would bitch no matter where you put it.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Is being "normal" OK??? It's probably better than where I was in past though.

There are some things that I'm not a fan of in my personal life, but I can disregard that in the context of a story.

A lot of the Loving Wives readers can't seem to separate the two.

Just my opinion, but I don't think it's that they can't separate the two.

Shift your POV, and try to see them as "getting into your story"! They're taking your story deeper into their mind and reacting as if they're there experiencing it. They're giving you their own emotional reaction to what you've written. And isn't that what writers are looking for: to reach their audience with an emotional connection?

It just happens that the emotion some stories elicit is HATE. When I write a story of a husband enjoying his wife's extra-marital sex, more than half the LW readers react with jealousy, resentment, and HATE it, perhaps because they think "I was there in real life, and that's NOT how it feels!"

I see that as similar to a horror story in which an audience member reacts by vomiting, when experiencing the horror scene. You GOT them! Why would they go to a horror movie or read a horror story, if that wasn't the BEST extreme they were looking for? So, I take their 1-bombs as a different appreciative reaction.

 

[Seadog777]

Just my opinion, but I don't think it's that they can't separate the two.

Shift your POV, and try to see them as "getting into your story"! They're taking your story deeper into their mind and reacting as if they're there experiencing it. They're giving you their own emotional reaction to what you've written. And isn't that what writers are looking for: to reach their audience with an emotional connection?

I understand that particular POV.

It just happens that the emotion some stories elicit is HATE. When I write a story of a husband enjoying his wife's extra-marital sex, more than half the LW readers react with jealousy, resentment, and HATE it, perhaps because they think "I was there in real life, and that's NOT how it feels!"

A lot of that is projection and if they did experience that in real life(which I'm sorry that they had to), they react from a place of regret for not at least trying to do something.

I see that as similar to a horror story in which an audience member reacts by vomiting, when experiencing the horror scene. You GOT them! Why would they go to a horror movie or read a horror story, if that wasn't the BEST extreme they were looking for? So, I take their 1-bombs as a different appreciative reaction.

I take the 1-bombs with a smile.
I find it more humorous than anything TBH.

 

[SimonDoom]

Is being "normal" OK??? It's probably better than where I was in past though.

I said your behavior on this subject was the "norm," not that you're normal. Come on, now, I wouldn't insult you like that.

 

[Seadog777]

I said your behavior on this subject was the "norm," not that you're normal. Come on, now, I wouldn't insult you like that.

 

[LMWM321]

Shift your POV, and try to see them as "getting into your story"! They're taking your story deeper into their mind and reacting as if they're there experiencing it. They're giving you their own emotional reaction to what you've written. And isn't that what writers are looking for: to reach their audience with an emotional connection?

I think that's actually a good point Lifestyle66, and I'll try considering the negative comments in that light. That is, so long as they don't go too far.

But a commenter calling for a "...mysterious explosion destroying the entire place and killing every piece of shit guy and cheating skank slut present." is simply psychotic. I wrote a story about MY wife leading a non monogamous life, not HIS. I've been jilted before too, but never wished death to ANYONE let alone 15 people. Clearly, he doesn't believe women can make their own decisions about their own bodies and lives.

One guy commented after my previous story that my wife "should be gang raped and beaten to near death." I know comments are reviewed before they are posted, but for what exactly? ..If that comment made it through then what isn't.

 

[Lifestyle66]

I think that's actually a good point Lifestyle66, and I'll try considering the negative comments in that light. That is, so long as they don't go too far.

But a commenter calling for a "...mysterious explosion destroying the entire place and killing every piece of shit guy and cheating skank slut present." is simply psychotic. I wrote a story about MY wife leading a non monogamous life, not HIS. I've been jilted before too, but never wished death to ANYONE let alone 15 people. Clearly, he doesn't believe women can make their own decisions about their own bodies and lives.

One guy commented after my previous story that my wife "be gang raped and beaten to near death." I know comments are reviewed before they are posted, but for what exactly? ..If that comment made it through then what isn't.

Comments are probably reviewed for the same thing stories are reviewed: bestiality and pedophilia.

The violence and death are often included in stories, such as horror (not just LW).

Also, keep these comments in context; That is ONE comment from just ONE of the thousands of readers of that story. That ONE person probably has a bad history and bad memories of a traumatic extra-marital sex incident with his wife.

This is why LW is not the place to post if you're going to be overly sensitive. Post to safer categories like Fetish or BDSM, where the audience there is looking for or more accepting of abusive or domineering relationships.

 

[lovecraft68]

I think that's actually a good point Lifestyle66, and I'll try considering the negative comments in that light. That is, so long as they don't go too far.

But a commenter calling for a "...mysterious explosion destroying the entire place and killing every piece of shit guy and cheating skank slut present." is simply psychotic. I wrote a story about MY wife leading a non monogamous life, not HIS. I've been jilted before too, but never wished death to ANYONE let alone 15 people. Clearly, he doesn't believe women can make their own decisions about their own bodies and lives.

One guy commented after my previous story that my wife "be gang raped and beaten to near death." I know comments are reviewed before they are posted, but for what exactly? ..If that comment made it through then what isn't.

Lifestyle will always defend those types of comments and them on blame you writing a story he also finds disgusting. He's on the side of the trolls because HE thinks HE decides what stories go into that category and will bully people here who have the audacity to see fictional cheating stories as an erotic kink. But HE will also defend stories of mindless violence that have no place in an erotic category.
What I'm saying is you're speaking to one of your detractors and aren't going to get anywhere with it.

Write what you want, and don't be talked out of it, or told you're wrong.

I have something coming up for that category. It will end in another sub 3 score and a ton of abuse. Not because of bad writing, hell, n my last story there I even had some people say it was well written, but they disliked the content. That's a compliment to me.

The rest is noise.

 

[ElectricBlue]

One guy commented after my previous story that my wife "be gang raped and beaten to near death." I know comments are reviewed before they are posted, but for what exactly? ..If that comment made it through then what isn't.

Comments are reviewed for spam and html links, not content. It's up to the author to police content, by deleting or keeping the comment. Or you can report it, and the site can check whether the commenter is a repeat troll. Not anons, obviously.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Lifestyle will always defend those types of comments and them on blame you writing a story he also finds disgusting. He's on the side of the trolls because HE thinks HE decides what stories go into that category and will bully people here who have the audacity to see fictional cheating stories as an erotic kink. But HE will also defend stories of mindless violence that have no place in an erotic category.
What I'm saying is you're speaking to one of your detractors and aren't going to get anywhere with it.

Write what you want, and don't be talked out of it, or told you're wrong.

I have something coming up for that category. It will end in another sub 3 score and a ton of abuse. Not because of bad writing, hell, n my last story there I even had some people say it was well written, but they disliked the content. That's a compliment to me.

The rest is noise.

EVERY comment from EVERY reader in any category is their sole OPINION of your story. Only a true shithead such as yourself tries to insist on silencing others from expressing their personal experiences and opinions, often garnered from a traumatic life experience.

I don't defend violent comments. But they have as much right to post their comments as YOU have in repeatedly coming to these forums to BLAST other authors with your ignorant shit.

You can stick your story in LW or wherever your shit really belongs. But after you post your femdom, cock-caged husband forced to suck his wife's lover's cock humiliation story in LW, don't come to the forums declaring "SEE! They HATE IT, so that makes them all misogynistic women haters!"

 

[LMWM321]

One issue is that no interesting story is going to fit only ONE category and the readers should know this before reading.

My story is about a Loving Wife who is Mature, engaging in consensual non-monogamy in a Group Sex setting who's approving husband has a Fetish for her feet as do the guys who play with them while fucking her. Oh, and since she asks her husband to go down on her dirty pussy 8 hrs later to prove he's not upset, it's now BDSM. So which is it?

Yes, us writers need to make a decision where to put the story and stick with it without apology. But the knuckleheads who read the stories need to understand that every good story (not saying mine is that, necessarily) is going to have elements from more than one category.

 

[mildlyaroused]

This has always been an issue. That's why tags are important, and you should use them. Also, the categories are mainly for the readers' benefit when it comes down to it. They're the ones searching for something; us writers start with a blank canvas.

(the customer is always right)

 

[NoTalentHack]

This has always been an issue. That's why tags are important, and you should use them. Also, the categories are mainly for the readers' benefit when it comes down to it. They're the ones searching for something; us writers start with a blank canvas.

(the customer is always right)

One thing I would love about the site is if tags were more visible. Like, if you could mouseover on a tag icon in the New screen and see the tags the writer put on it without going into the story. Length, too.