Overly critical feedback from non-authors

[Hypoxia]

I's just like to see comments as they come in, not have them posted in batches.

Quite. Laurel needs faster AI.

I really don't fret negative and/or psycho comments from anyone. When apes fling feces at me, I can 1) duck; 2) be elsewhere; 3) wear a rubber suit; 4) hose off and proceed; 5) enjoy the attention; and/or 6) let my loyal fans eviscerate the offender. YMMV.

But I don't sweat the small shit -- and it's all small shit. As Woodrow Wilson said of academic disputes, they're vicious because the stakes are so small.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I's just like to see comments as they come in, not have them posted in batches.

I don't know the inner workings of the moderation system, but it's possible that batching is necessary for spam detection. One of the simplest ways to detect spam is to look for a bunch of similar postings (same text, same metadata, etc. etc.) so holding comments for a few hours might make it easier to distinguish spam from legit.

I agree the delay is annoying, especially for author comments, but if it keeps the spam down I can live with it.

 

[8letters]

I mean "is" rather than "ought", because I'm not sure "ought" has any place in the discussion apart from what people actually think and expect. This isn't a matter of right and wrong. It's a matter of people's expectations based on the way the site is set up. If the site were set up so readers were given fair warning that they should give negative comments only when authors manifest a desire to get them, that would be the reasonable way to do things in the "ought" sense. In the absence of any such warning, I'm inclined to think readers should be free to give whatever comments they want without feeling like they're somehow treading on the author's toes.

I think there's definitely an "ought" to the issue, as in what type of comment should you and I as authors and informed commenters ought to leave on a story.

II don't see this as a "me me" thing the way KeithD does. It cuts both ways. One could equally well say an author has a "me me" attitude if he somehow believes he should be insulated from criticism.

I don't know see it as a "me me" thing either. I think commenters are trying to be helpful when they leave criticisms. Going back to the comment I posted earlier, the commenter had a point - even *I* prefer stories that are 3-4 pages in length. But when I tell the story I want to tell, it's always much longer than that. When someone leaves a comment that it should have been "led" instead of "lead", they are trying to help the author get better as a writer.

I've come to the conclusion that authors will do things that hurt the appeal of the story because that's what they want to write, The most common advice I give is to start a story with an interesting scene, not narrative summary. But some others want to write a story that starts with lots of narrative summary. If that's what they're excited to write, who am I to say they're wrong?

So I only leave positive comments. If I enjoyed the story, I'll try to say something that I particularly liked about it. If I didn't, I don't leave anything.

 

[ElectricBlue]

When someone leaves a comment that it should have been "led" instead of "lead", they are trying to help the author get better as a writer.

I'd like to think the story had slightly more substance than to ping me for three words out of 30,000, as if it was a major crime (which is how it was expressed). Sure, they were right, but really, did the other 29,997 words count for nothing? There's intelligent comment and there's nit-picking - but I let the comment stand, and it's now something I check. Am I better writer because of it? I doubt it.

 

[8letters]

I'd like to think the story had slightly more substance than to ping me for three words out of 30,000, as if it was a major crime (which is how it was expressed). Sure, they were right, but really, did the other 29,997 words count for nothing? There's intelligent comment and there's nit-picking - but I let the comment stand, and it's now something I check. Am I better writer because of it? I doubt it.

I totally agree. It drives me nuts when I get a comment like that. My understanding of what Keith is saying is that he thinks people leave comments like that to prove they're smarter than the author. I think the commenter thought the story could have been better, can't really put their finger on why, and picked that as a safe nit to mention. To me, such a comment indicates there was a problem, but doesn't give me any guidance as to what the problem is.

But really, I don't think an author is going to get any meaningful insight from a comment on how to improve. You can't communicate in a few words to someone you don't know enough information to get them to change their habits. Also, IMHO 90% of your story's success is determined by its premise, and that's something that is hit or miss. What has helped me the most has been giving authors feedback who requested it in this forum, even though I think most of them rejected it.

 

[SimonDoom]

I think there's definitely an "ought" to the issue, as in what type of comment should you and I as authors and informed commenters ought to leave on a story.

I agree with you about this. My comment about is or ought addressed the more fundamental threshold question about whether a comment should be left at all; it didn't address what sort of comment one should feel obligated to give, or to avoid.

As far as the content of a comment is concerned, I think there are two basic rules:

1. Don't be an asshole. This covers a lot of ground. Follow this rule, in my opinion, and you probably won't go wrong.

2. Try to advise the author about how to write a better version of the story that the author wants to write, rather than how to write a completely different story. Bad punctuation, spelling, and grammar almost never serve a legitimate artistic function, and some authors are simply oblivious to the mistakes they're making, so I think these are fair game. I think it's fair to make critiques about plot turns and choices characters make so long as you aren't trying to steer the story in a completely different direction. One's motive as a commenter should be to try to be helpful, rather than merely critical, and never dismissive and insulting.

I chuckle sometimes at the nitpicky comments I get, but some of them have stuck with me, and I know in the future I'll avoid doing the thing that the commenter noted.

 

[GroverLang]

If I leave the comments option on, and I always do, then I'm open for whatever comes in.

I usually reply (and maybe defend myself too) to most comments I get.

You are wasting your time responding, particularly to any anonymous annoying comments, because they will never return to see if you’ve responded. They’ve annoyed you with their comment and that’s good enough for them. If someone has identified themselves send them pm or email.

 

[GroverLang]

I agree with you about this. My comment about is or ought addressed the more fundamental threshold question about whether a comment should be left at all; it didn't address what sort of comment one should feel obligated to give, or to avoid.

As far as the content of a comment is concerned, I think there are two basic rules:

1. Don't be an asshole. This covers a lot of ground. Follow this rule, in my opinion, and you probably won't go wrong.

2. Try to advise the author about how to write a better version of the story that the author wants to write, rather than how to write a completely different story. Bad punctuation, spelling, and grammar almost never serve a legitimate artistic function, and some authors are simply oblivious to the mistakes they're making, so I think these are fair game. I think it's fair to make critiques about plot turns and choices characters make so long as you aren't trying to steer the story in a completely different direction. One's motive as a commenter should be to try to be helpful, rather than merely critical, and never dismissive and insulting.

I chuckle sometimes at the nitpicky comments I get, but some of them have stuck with me, and I know in the future I'll avoid doing the thing that the commenter noted.

1. Always make a CONSTRUCTIVE comment.
2. Keep it simple.

 

[CuteSlaveLisa]

Sometimes the really dumb comments are humorous...

Anonymous said: "you said 'he touched her moist private places' don't you spell check? It should be 'most' not 'moist'"...

Love and Kisses

Lisa Ann

 

[KeithD]

You are wasting your time responding, particularly to any anonymous annoying comments, because they will never return to see if you’ve responded. They’ve annoyed you with their comment and that’s good enough for them. If someone has identified themselves send them pm or email.

Sure some of them will (yet another issue on which "never" doesn't mean "never"). We've had comments about anonymous calling the author out on deleting their original comment. There's no one reaction to anything in the world.

 

[oggbashan]

Sure some of them will (yet another issue on which "never" doesn't mean "never"). We've had comments about anonymous calling the author out on deleting their original comment. There's no one reaction to anything in the world.

I've had that when the original comment was 'deleted by admin'.

 

[Hypoxia]

I've had that when the original comment was 'deleted by admin'.

I've not seen "deleted by admin" lately. Likely, trash comments don't survive the new regime's screening, so I don't notice. Or maybe no trolls have savaged me lately. Whew.

 

[AkashicDharma]

Feedback vs. Trolls

I'm new here and I don't pretend to be even remotely on the same level as the rest of you. However, I would like to share this. In my limited experience, when someone wants to help me get better as a writer, then send me a message. I very much take these messages to heart. When they want to troll, they leave an anonymous comment telling me how terrible and stupid something was without any useful information as to why it was that way. Fortunately, my readers sometimes come to my rescue.

 

[KevinandNina]

I don't mind negative comments as long as they're constructive ("That sucked" doesn' help)
I disallowed anonymous comments not because of the negative comments, but because of the trolls.
I don't get why someone would log onto the site, click on stories, choose a specific category and then complain about the subject matter.
The majority of our stories are in "loving wives" so I'll use that.
They read an entire story and then comment that women who do such things, and the men who put up with it are the lowest of the low.
I get it. You're not into certain things. Neither am I.
That's why I don't read those stories.
Not against them, just not what interests me.

 

[Hugme]

Anonymous idiots

I am sure glad I'm not the only one experiencing trolls and idiots commenting.
I have gotten a few simply dumb comments about my shorts here. It is discouraging that any "anonymous" user can comment non relevant to the story or is completely missing the point. I feel it is just a way for ignorant trolls to annoy authors. And it's very cowardly because the author can't even discuss the feedback or block them.

If I write about being locked in chastity why does an anonymous user get all worked up about the topic of the story and tries to change it to what they think the protagonist should do. Dude, you're missing the point here and yeah, she is locked up in chastity and there is only one freaking key and her guy has it, so keep your ignorance to yourself or write your own story where the protagonist has extra keys anywhere to unlock her chastity belt, but then that sounds like a very boring story.

I'm here for the fun of it and because I like to write stuff, I'm an amateur, not here to make millions or whatever, don't think you're so important.

 

[KeithD]

I am sure glad I'm not the only one experiencing trolls and idiots commenting.
I have gotten a few simply dumb comments about my shorts here. It is discouraging that any "anonymous" user can comment non relevant to the story or is completely missing the point.

The Web site gives you the power to delete such comments. Doing so is better than stewing over the comment.

 

[TornConflict]

Recently, I just turned off anonymous comments from readers. Some stories I wrote were getting slammed by trolls that were usually Anon. I don't mind feedback in the least, My nude day submission got the comment that the person felt my story was cliche and that one didn't do it for them. I appreciated that comment because I tried a few new things and that comment told me my idea might not have worked as well as I hoped. The prior feedback on that same story, that I deleted, said something along the lines of "You don't need editing, just learn your not a writer." Now that's just being a troll.

 

[ThisNameIsntTakenYet]

Eh, at least we're trying. It's easy to shoot down someone's story if you have never written your own story, let alone had the guts to put it online for everyone to see. Handling criticism is a major part of being a writer, but on a site like this it's even more true. I guess I'll never get trolls, but don't lower yourself to their level. Just ignore it and move on, delete the comment if it really bothers you or you think it might prevent people from reading the story if they see it. That's all you can do.

Of course, feedback from readers is still important. The majority of your readers will be non-authors, so while their feedback might be more useful from a technical perspective, they're not representative of the biggest portion of your audience. Then again, neither are trolls.

 

[8letters]

Eh, at least we're trying. It's easy to shoot down someone's story if you have never written your own story, let alone had the guts to put it online for everyone to see.

I think many people don't appreciate how hard it is to write even a two-page story without a minor mistake.

I guess I'll never get trolls

Don't count on it.

And trolls aren't the commenters that bother me the most. The ones that bother me the most are the one whose attitude is that they gave me a spec to follow and now they're pissed that I didn't follow it. "How dare you write the story you wanted to write!" A lot of my stories have a comment to the effect, "This story shouldn't have been longer than four pages." I can understand that the commenter's lips get tired if he/she reads a story longer than four pages, but for me to tell the story I wanted to tell, I had to go longer than four pages.

Just ignore it and move on, delete the comment if it really bothers you or you think it might prevent people from reading the story if they see it. That's all you can do.

Too many negative comments suck the joy out of writing for this website. If you don't feel appreciated, then why bother?

Of course, feedback from readers is still important. The majority of your readers will be non-authors, so while their feedback might be more useful from a technical perspective, they're not representative of the biggest portion of your audience. Then again, neither are trolls.

In my experience, feedback from readers is of very little value. One or two sentences just don't convey enough information.

 

[bushyTrail]

I have gotten a few simply dumb comments about my shorts here. It is discouraging that any "anonymous" user can comment non relevant to the story or is completely missing the point. I feel it is just a way for ignorant trolls to annoy authors. And it's very cowardly because the author can't even discuss the feedback or block them.

If I write about being locked in chastity why does an anonymous user get all worked up about the topic of the story and tries to change it to what they think the protagonist should do. Dude, you're missing the point here and yeah, she is locked up in chastity and there is only one freaking key and her guy has it, so keep your ignorance to yourself or write your own story where the protagonist has extra keys anywhere to unlock her chastity belt, but then that sounds like a very boring story.

Ah, I remember seeing that comment on your story and thinking "here we go again: if you don't like the topic, why even bother commenting?"! (by the way, I think that your story is well-written and totally fine, even if it is not my genre)
Is it me, or this happens somewhat more often in the BDSM section?
Anyhow, I agree with you: it is already bad enough that you cannot really answer the comments (you can comment, but the other won't receive any notification, or you can send private messages, but then nobody else will read them), but to have anonymous comments really does not make sense to me. Everybody knows that anonymity is the best way to attract trolls.

 

[ThisNameIsntTakenYet]

Is it me, or this happens somewhat more often in the BDSM section?

The different categories each have their own audience for the most part, and some of them are a bit more troll-infested than others. I don't really read BDSM myself though, so I can't verify if it's one of those. Just saying it's very possible.

 

[SimonDoom]

The different categories each have their own audience for the most part, and some of them are a bit more troll-infested than others. I don't really read BDSM myself though, so I can't verify if it's one of those. Just saying it's very possible.

Some BDSM readers are participants in the "real world" of BDSM and get their hackles raised if your story does not abide by the alleged "rules" of how real BDSM is supposed to work. This phenomenon of insisting that fantasy stories must conform to the "real world" is not limited to BDSM. You find it in other categories, too, but it does arise in BDSM, particularly over the issue of whether your story treats consensual power exchange with sufficient seriousness.

My take is that this is a fantasy realm and that the author is free to completely ignore the real world.

 

[bushyTrail]

Some BDSM readers are participants in the "real world" of BDSM and get their hackles raised if your story does not abide by the alleged "rules" of how real BDSM is supposed to work. This phenomenon of insisting that fantasy stories must conform to the "real world" is not limited to BDSM. You find it in other categories, too, but it does arise in BDSM, particularly over the issue of whether your story treats consensual power exchange with sufficient seriousness.

My take is that this is a fantasy realm and that the author is free to completely ignore the real world.

Yeah, I had this feeling too. In a certain sense, I even agree with it. I get that it is important to "educate the public", especially considering how great the danger of entering in an abusive relationship is with power games and how distorted the perspective on BDSM can be because of 50 shades et similia. On the other hand, because of these very reasons, it is important to have stories where the rules are bent or even violated and the consequences are depicted. Otherwise we are just creating another taboo and if there is something that anyone who is fond of BDSM should know, is that taboos don't really work.

 

[Hypoxia]

I think many people don't appreciate how hard it is to write even a two-page story without a minor mistake.

Or even a 750-word vignette, let alone a 3750-word single LIT page tale. I was between eye surgeries in my last writing binge; I had to peer closely at my laptop screen to see every keystroke. I made fewer errors, but still... There's a reason commercial publishers used editors to fix their authors' goofs. And even the pros let stuff slip by. Perfection is tough.

Too many negative comments suck the joy out of writing for this website. If you don't feel appreciated, then why bother?

We're back to my question: Why write for LIT? Not for money. For brownie points (views, votes, praise)? To satisfy the voices in your head? To provoke / arouse readers? For self-satisfaction? Is 'appreciation' really vital?

In my experience, feedback from readers is of very little value. One or two sentences just don't convey enough information.

True, the vast majority of my feedback has been useless. But a very few comments HAVE affected my series writing, either reminding me of plot holes to fill, or successfully pleading for continuation. But they're rare.

 

[KeithD]

We're back to my question: Why write for LIT? Not for money. For brownie points (views, votes, praise)? To satisfy the voices in your head? To provoke / arouse readers? For self-satisfaction? Is 'appreciation' really vital?

For storage of material you don't want to keep on your home or office computer.