Serious question to men?

[Blue]

The problem is men still think women have to prove it to "mean it."

I have never encountered this mentality before.
Not saying you're fabricating that. But in the event of a woman stating she prefers being in the lead, I've never seen somebody take that as some sort of unbelievable claim requiring justification. Ignoring it entirely, sure. The asshat thread has many examples.

Maybe I'm just sheltered, I dunno.

Harpy's claims that preferences could be a weird form of competition over placement in the social hierarchy is new to me as well.
That's not just me, is it?

 

[Mrtenant]

You are painting a picture as if this is something going on everywhere to all women only. It's not.

I spent much of my early work experience dealing with Affirmative Action. ( I can hear the poor me's now, it still sucked, I was wrongly discriminated against because the company preferred tax credits)

And, some people are wrongly accused of suppressing a coworker because of their age, sex, race, hairstyle or whatever.

There is no monopoly on this with women.

Its not all so black and white.

Does it happen? Yes. To everyone.

Fight your battles as you see fit, along the way you make a name for yourself. Is it worth it? Only you can decide.

Its not just women. Its everyone.

For my time and energy, I choose a work environment that suits me. Or I find one that does if the former does not work or changes. I have better things to do with my time than to fuss with my employer and cry about life not being fair. Life is not fair.

 

[Miles Long]

To the OP: do you only experience this online or do you also experience it at kink events in your local community? I haven't seen someone try to dominate a Domme here at any events, but if they did everyone there would look at him like "Are you a fucking idiot?" It reeks much more of fragile, toxic masculinity as opposed to someone who is thoughtfully engaging in BDSM. And while I haven't seen a man attempt to dominate a Domme in the local scene here, I have seen plenty of examples of fragile, toxic masculinity both in the scene and society at large. Shades of Farawyn's misogyny, insecurity, ego, etc.

 

[Farawyn]

I have never encountered this mentality before.
Not saying you're fabricating that. But in the event of a woman stating she prefers being in the lead, I've never seen somebody take that as some sort of unbelievable claim requiring justification. Ignoring it entirely, sure. The asshat thread has many examples.

Maybe I'm just sheltered, I dunno.

Harpy's claims that preferences could be a weird form of competition over placement in the social hierarchy is new to me as well.
That's not just me, is it?

I was more responding to Dr.Delerium. And his dogs.

 

[_Necrosomantic_]

The problem is men still think women have to prove it to "mean it."

If she says she means it, she means it.

Why is this so fucking difficult?

Oh.

I know why.

Misogyny.
Insecurity.
Ego.

That's about the size of it.

Though, I'd add a couple more to the list.

It takes quite a bit of arrogance to presume a woman stating that she isn't submissive, is really saying she is underneath and, furthermore, that you are capable of "
showing her the light ".... Because you're oh so fucking special. There's ego, and then there's the sort of belligerent stupidity there is no excuse for.

The idea that every strong willed woman has a single string that, when pulled by the " right man ", will unravel this facade of a tough exterior revealing the tame and accommodating woman underneath who wishes for nothing more in the world than to kowtow to his every whim. Because the idea that she is what she presents herself to be, throws our whole way of life into upheaval! This is the lowest form insulting mysoginistic horsehit. The reality is, it's simply the last ignorant vestiges of old gender stereotypes, invented during a time when people still threw stones at their own shadows and died at the tender age of 23. There's a train station across the street from me, do us all a service. Bite down on a rail and wait for the Metra.

 

[StupidDoes]

sounds like the typical topping from the bottom? men can be inpatient i think..especially when theor goal is to get off..they are focuaing on their own needs and not the needs of their Domme.

one thong a good sub must have is patience...and listening skills help too

 

[just4friends]

Because
Dom da Domme da

They are DUMB!

If a Dom decides to switch with a Domme, he had better know going in that she is NOT a switch. Leave your "big boy" pants (ego) at the door and serve!

 

[Nezhul]

I'm caught here wondering why you would feel the need to tell someone that you are not submissive and then think the man you just told that to is somehow overbearing. Frankly it boggles the mind that you would think that someone wouldn't accept the challenge.

It IS a challenge whether you intended it to be one or not. Because the statement you make isn't that you aren't a submissive, it's a challenge of "who is more dominant, me or you"?

And you don't get this? At all?

I feel the need here to explain that perhaps you should consider expanding your understanding of basic human instincts. And maybe develop a method of informing others that you are not interested in them without challenging them to a duel over mastery.

Umm. I don't read it like that at all.

If someone tells me she's not submissive - so be it. It's not a challenge for me to prove something here.

This is just stupid. How do you even communicate if the words "I'm not something-something" are a challenge all of a sudden.

I don't have problems with other dominants, be they male or female. I don't see the existence of a dominant women as being a challenge to me to prove who's MORE dominant.
Hell, I will acknowledge right here and now that most women who think of themselves as a Domme are probably more dominant than me.

As for the original question, I will second the "Misogyny, Insecurity, Ego" opinion as well as "Ignorance" opinion. Basically those people have a very neat and simple picture of the world in their heads, where all women are ubmissive and all men are in their right to control them. Then they get upset when you tell them you are not that.

One recommendation I can give you, is try to pay attention to how you say it. I understand that this topic may be bugging you, but it never hurts to pay attention to be polite and not let your own annoyance affect the other party.
There is a possibility that when they propose to dominate you, your annoyance and irritation about the offer results in a snappy reply, which can get people upset even if they are originally okay with accepting your refusal and acknowledging you as a non-sub.
I have problems with that myself, so I know.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Primalex]

If she says she means it, she means it.

Why is this so fucking difficult?

Oh.

I know why.

Misogyny.
Insecurity.
Ego.

Sure.

All the stereotypes about ambiguous female communication are an invention of male misogynists.



"I'm not looking for a relationship at the moment." already has these possible translations:
1) You are not sexually attractive to me.
2) I'm only looking for some NSA stuff.
3) I'm already seeing someone and want to find out if he is the right one.
4) I just broke up and don't want another guy around me at the moment.
5) I'm too busy with my career to pursue a relationship.
...

 

[MeekMe]

Sure.

All the stereotypes about ambiguous female communication are an invention of male misogynists.



"I'm not looking for a relationship at the moment." already has these possible translations:
1) You are not sexually attractive to me.
2) I'm only looking for some NSA stuff.
3) I'm already seeing someone and want to find out if he is the right one.
4) I just broke up and don't want another guy around me at the moment.
5) I'm too busy with my career to pursue a relationship.
...

To sum up 1-5 "I don't want a relationship with you."

From experience I can say that giving a "gentle" no or indirect no is as much about trying to spare his feelings as it is about protecting myself.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Gotham_Central]

At the risk of offending the feminists in the crowd AND having my man card revoked, could it have nothing what's ever with with either men or women, with unspoken fears, societal assumptions or gender roles? Could it be simply that some people -tops, bottoms, men women, kinky or straight-out or just jerks?

 

[coachdb18]

At the risk of offending the feminists in the crowd AND having my man card revoked, could it have nothing what's ever with with either men or women, with unspoken fears, societal assumptions or gender roles? Could it be simply that some people -tops, bottoms, men women, kinky or straight-out or just jerks?

...said the guy who once upon a time advertised his 'overwatch position'?

 

[Farawyn]

To sum up 1-5 "I don't want a relationship with you."

From experience I can say that giving a "gentle" no or indirect no is as much about trying to spare his feelings as it is about protecting myself.

This.
Yes.

 

[Farawyn]

At the risk of offending the feminists in the crowd AND having my man card revoked, could it have nothing what's ever with with either men or women, with unspoken fears, societal assumptions or gender roles? Could it be simply that some people -tops, bottoms, men women, kinky or straight-out or just jerks?

Yes, of course. I did feel it was significant she asked as a Domme. As a woman. Men here and in life have tried to tell me what I am, as well. I'm sure I'm projecting. My answer to the OP stands.

 

[Primalex]

That's true, but women are often times judged more harshly simply for being women.

You are comparing a man who acts according to the culture with a woman who does not and come to the conclusion that the woman gets treated worse. This is the wrong premise. Take a man who displays female attributes and take his experiences as a base who gets judged more harshly - or who has more trouble to get a raise.

I already have trouble to find a unit to measure unfairness in. How does "10000x not get a raise as bossy woman" compare to "1x stoning for receiving anal sex as a man."?

Just my thoughts, not really a question.

Women cannot usually get away with the same kinds of speech/actions that men can.

To put it mildly, this is not the experience I have made in my life - not within my own family, not as nearly 8 years as union rep, not during my time in the armed forces and for sure not as "member of the BDSM culture".

 

[Nezhul]

To put it mildly, this is not the experience I have made in my life - not within my own family, not as nearly 8 years as union rep, not during my time in the armed forces and for sure not as "member of the BDSM culture".

Did it ever occur to you that people just don't think that arguing with always-rude and sharply opinionated bitch like you is simply not worth the effort?

You try to alienate everyone with every post you make, I can hardly imagine you being much different in a face-to-face conversation.

It's not like this is an achievement to be proud of, though. Many men are just like you - morons, and you don't want to talk to people like that.

 

[Primalex]

Did it ever occur to you that people just don't think that arguing with always-rude and sharply opinionated bitch like you is simply not worth the effort?

Thank you!

Your use of the word 'bitch' very much proves my point about male<>male judgement.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[MeekMe]

You are comparing a man who acts according to the culture with a woman who does not and come to the conclusion that the woman gets treated worse. This is the wrong premise. Take a man who displays female attributes and take his experiences as a base who gets judged more harshly - or who has more trouble to get a raise.

I already have trouble to find a unit to measure unfairness in. How does "10000x not get a raise as bossy woman" compare to "1x stoning for receiving anal sex as a man."?

Just my thoughts, not really a question.

But I'm not comparing a woman that acts "out of culture." I'm also not arguing that men don't have similar issues. For that matter I'm not even saying "all men."

To put it mildly, this is not the experience I have made in my life - not within my own family, not as nearly 8 years as union rep, not during my time in the armed forces and for sure not as "member of the BDSM culture".

In your experience. And that isn't to devalue your experience at all. You've clearly had very different experiences then I have. It makes me think about how recently my husband made the suggestion that I should walk to the nearby grocery store. He thought that it would allow for more exercise and save on gas money. I agreed with him on those points but told him I didn't want to do that. He at first thought it was because I wanted to be more "lazy." When I explained that walking the street to get to the store made me uncomfortable because every single time I've done it I've been honked at (it always scares the hell out of me every time because they drive past but only honk when they're next to me) or there have been instances of being yelled at. So I'm uncomfortable walking. My husband pointed out that he's never seen that happen, I told him they don't do it when he walks with me. And that never happens when he walks with me.

 

[LeinadVirgo]

At the original question: I dont think i ever try to dominate a domme, but i will try to dom from the bottom.

But that tends to be if I'm more experienced i like to help (at least thats how i see it).

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Uneklensane]

Why do you feel the need to try and dominate a Domme?

6'2"...wow. Would NOT mind you behind me ...esp if your breathing heavy.

 

[Farawyn]

But I'm not comparing a woman that acts "out of culture." I'm also not arguing that men don't have similar issues. For that matter I'm not even saying "all men."




In your experience. And that isn't to devalue your experience at all. You've clearly had very different experiences then I have. It makes me think about how recently my husband made the suggestion that I should walk to the nearby grocery store. He thought that it would allow for more exercise and save on gas money. I agreed with him on those points but told him I didn't want to do that. He at first thought it was because I wanted to be more "lazy." When I explained that walking the street to get to the store made me uncomfortable because every single time I've done it I've been honked at (it always scares the hell out of me every time because they drive past but only honk when they're next to me) or there have been instances of being yelled at. So I'm uncomfortable walking. My husband pointed out that he's never seen that happen, I told him they don't do it when he walks with me. And that never happens when he walks with me.

Ah, I know this one. We have had several instances where how I am spoken to by a couple of people is deferent when G is around to when he isn't. I made a suggestion I left my phone line open so that, while he believed me, he did not HAVE to take my word for it. He was upset that I had underplayed it.

Maybe record your walk if you ever take it?

We shouldn't have to.