The Left Bank...a cafe and gallery for Lit artists and art lovers

[Angelofsex]

Good night everyone Ari, Star, SM,Arden, mya and Morgana. I love stopping in and seeing what is going on with the art.

Have a good weekend everyone.

 

[ariosto]

Hey great! 100 posts tonight.

Snork, I certainly never meant to confine this to the visual arts. In fact I'm sure I said something earlier on about that.
I do though draw a distinction between creative and performing arts.
This is not meant to exclude the latter at all but there is a difference between a rock star and Picasso.
Any comments on that?

I will comment on Opera tonight.
I find French opera the most sensual of all though I've always thought the ballet interlude to be somewhat out of place.
Italian to me is colorful and lusty. The German I find ponderous and heavy though not without moments of pure beauty.
The one that is rarely mentioned is Russian and it was a revelation to me to discover how utterly beautiful Russian can sound when sung. The use of the choral element in Russian opera gives it a power unmatched elsewhere.
I have never really liked English language opera.

How's it going Star and Arden?
Progress yet?

Snork another nice piece of work...when will it be finished?

 

[Arden]

Opera

Hey great! 100 posts tonight.

I will comment on Opera tonight.
I find French opera the most sensual of all though I've always thought the ballet interlude to be somewhat out of place.
Italian to me is colorful and lusty. The German I find ponderous and heavy though not without moments of pure beauty.
The one that is rarely mentioned is Russian and it was a revelation to me to discover how utterly beautiful Russian can sound when sung. The use of the choral element in Russian opera gives it a power unmatched elsewhere.
I have never really liked English language opera.

My favorite has to be "Carmen", having such a variety of passionate, stimulating musical passages... I could listen to it for hours upon end...

 

[ariosto]

Carmen is a terrific opera!

Guess everyone is working on their recycled projects huh?

 

[Starfire]

Hi all ... not been around too much this weekend so apologies for not posting sooner.

SM - you mention other art forms. I have never really managed to get into opera, though I don't suppose I have made much of an effort. Ballet too, though I did see the Moscow Ballet perform Prokofiev's "Romeo and Juliet" in London a few years back, and Stravinsky's "Firebird" and "Rites of Spring" are powerful.

Films - wow, where do I begin? There are films that I enjoy and could watch over and over (such as "The Graduate") but I wouldn't necessarily class such films as "Art" ... so what is the distinction? It possibly stems from the director's total vision/concept, the craft, the challenge to the viewer, the mise-en-scene, the originality, the sharpness, the cinematography, the synergy with the music ... a whole host of subtleties that raise a film above commercial pulp into the field of art. I will throw in "Apocalypse Now!", "Blade Runner (Director's Cut)" and almost anything by Scorcese as illustrative examples.

Musicals - enjoyable mostly, but art?

Theatre - a passion of mine (being an English teacher!) My particular specialism is Elizabethan and Jacobean Revenge Tragedy, and I have rarely seen a bad production (I am selective!) Highlights would be Helen Mirren in "The Duchess of Malfi", Ben Kingsley in "Dr Faustus" and Anthony Cher in "The Revenger's Tragedy". I guess that we are fortunate here in England as far as theatre is concerned - whilst our film production has largely died, theatre and drama still thrive.

Porn - not really art, is it? (hehe) Very few porn stars do anything for me - consequently I do not have a favourite. I prefer those who look natural and seem to enjoy what they are doing, as opposed to those who "overact" as though they are enjoying it, with all their pouts and lip-licking - just makes me laugh!

Sheesh ... I only stopped by to say hello!

 

[Starfire]

"Recycled"

I have made progress with mine, though there are aspects of it that I am not happy with. I decided on some oil glazes which has meant slow progress due to drying times. I may have to rethink.

How is yours coming on, Ari ... Arden? I have some scans of HK's piece to post a while later.

Have a good day ... and hi to Angel, Mya and SM.

 

[Angelofsex]

Good morning to Ari, Starfire, SM,mya and Arden. If I miss anyone please forgive me.

Can't wait to see the out come of the art .

 

[ariosto]

Here's a bit of a progress report on recycled.
The project started at about thesame time mya reminded me about the ATC works (Artist trading Cards), so of course I immediately became involved in developing some variations on my old drawings to try out some techniques that I might use in producing a few cards...

 

[ariosto]

But I did have time to start what will be a pretty straight forward graphite rendering of that old drawing...

 

[ariosto]

Here's a new feature...

MYSTERY FLESH!

Yes...who, fellow Bohemians is the creator of this painting and what's it's name?
Showing only a detail today. If no one guesses in a few days, I'll reveal it all.

Clue... an incestuous fondling.

 

[Starfire]

Excellent idea ...

Here's a new feature...

MYSTERY FLESH!

Yes...who, fellow Bohemians is the creator of this painting and what's it's name?
Showing only a detail today. If no one guesses in a few days, I'll reveal it all.

Clue... an incestuous fondling.

Or is that just because I am a smartass?

The painting, "Venus, Cupid, Folly and Time", painted by Bronzino (c1545 ... hehehe) used to hang in The National Gallery in London, though I did not see it last time I was there ... perhaps because I was pissed. Interestingly, thanks to the hangovers of our Victorian sensibilities, Venus' pubic area was overpainted with veils. These were only removed in the early 70s or late 60s.

Told you I was a smartass


Your turn! (Damn ... I saved it in the wrong format .....)

 

[Starfire]

Here it is ....

... I like this game! ...

 

[Snork Maiden]

Hi all ... not been around too much this weekend so apologies for not posting sooner.

SM - you mention other art forms. I have never really managed to get into opera, though I don't suppose I have made much of an effort. Ballet too, though I did see the Moscow Ballet perform Prokofiev's "Romeo and Juliet" in London a few years back, and Stravinsky's "Firebird" and "Rites of Spring" are powerful.

Films - wow, where do I begin? There are films that I enjoy and could watch over and over (such as "The Graduate") but I wouldn't necessarily class such films as "Art" ... so what is the distinction? It possibly stems from the director's total vision/concept, the craft, the challenge to the viewer, the mise-en-scene, the originality, the sharpness, the cinematography, the synergy with the music ... a whole host of subtleties that raise a film above commercial pulp into the field of art. I will throw in "Apocalypse Now!", "Blade Runner (Director's Cut)" and almost anything by Scorcese as illustrative examples.

Musicals - enjoyable mostly, but art?

Theatre - a passion of mine (being an English teacher!) My particular specialism is Elizabethan and Jacobean Revenge Tragedy, and I have rarely seen a bad production (I am selective!) Highlights would be Helen Mirren in "The Duchess of Malfi", Ben Kingsley in "Dr Faustus" and Anthony Cher in "The Revenger's Tragedy". I guess that we are fortunate here in England as far as theatre is concerned - whilst our film production has largely died, theatre and drama still thrive.

Porn - not really art, is it? (hehe) Very few porn stars do anything for me - consequently I do not have a favourite. I prefer those who look natural and seem to enjoy what they are doing, as opposed to those who "overact" as though they are enjoying it, with all their pouts and lip-licking - just makes me laugh!

Sheesh ... I only stopped by to say hello!

I block qouted everything because I think each item here requires a reply. LOL

You see I always think thought of art as being stuffy and there is a great deal of snobbery associated with it and 'Art Appreciation'.

So where to start, first of all I think I am going to take all you painters and sketchers down a peg or two, because I am an inflammatory sort of person <giggle> putting an image you see on paper accounts to some level of artistry I agreed, and there is a talent to do such things, personally I prefer surrealism in art it shows more liberated thought as opposed to photocopy attempts at manual and labored photography. Indeed that is really all that many of these 15th Century renaissance painting represent, portraits and religious works of Pornograhy loosely made respectable with an 'Art' label.

Ballet, indeed is a beautiful art, an art of visual representation of interpreted music, through the art of choreography, the skillful ear of the dancer, the ability to express in physical form a beautiful score. Why do I like performing arts, because they are unique, each performance offers it audience a fresh created view, it would be like watching Da Vinci painting the Mona Lisa time and time again each time with subtle differences.

Again to the Musicals, I'm not talking Oklahoma style musicals though I am not discounting them as they too have brought much enjoyment to wide audiences, but the translations of Classic like Victor Hugo's novels, brought to life through the art od stage craft and acting, and indeed musical scores. These are examples of art forms which rely on the Artistic Talents from multiple disiplines. The artist that produce the backdrops, the carpenters and tradesmen that built the props, the lighting and effects crews who administer their art to prduce atmosphere, the Orchestra and composers that provide the Music which more often imparts the mood. And ofcourse the writers of these shows whoses ability to abridge a story into a 2 hour show and maintain continuity these are the crafts of artists with visions.

Theater YES! love it and Ben Kingsley, a very talented actor, Silas Marner I think is the best thing I have seen him play in. Theater Opera, Vaudeville these platforms for visual performing arts requires again the talents of many artists.

Cinematography must be one of the most difficult of any Visual Art, Lighting, stage craft, effects, direction.

Blade Runner I feel is an over rated film, cult perhaps but not the best of Ridley Scott, who is one of my favorite directors because he does have a style.

And Porn didn't I expect a scoff at that but yes, Porn whether it is Hard or Soft, doesn't it play a role ion many films - seems to these days, nothing like a bit of female flesh to get the attention of a flagging audience LOL, perhaps it's because the stories are so bad. But still isn't the way that eroticism portrayed on film every bit as valid as to cite an example - A chubby cherub teasing a woman, personally the picture of Venus does nothing to me in respect of eroticsm or art, the woman looks fake and the cherub and after thought - Ok so I am a philistine - but I'm honest about it.



Hi's to all, Chele, Ari, Strafire, Arden, Angel (Congratualtions on 6000th post BTW)

 

[Arden]

Hi Everyone,

Skimmimg through the conversations, not much time for a reply, I'm trying to get my son packed for college, we leave tomorrow to take him to Univ. of Santa Fe.

One form of art that I LOVE are beautiful pieces of erotic artwork. The kind that leave you spellbound, unable to take your eyes away because it displays such beauty.

No, not porn... I dislike porn films because they are so tacky, terrible plots, lousy actors and actresses, and in general, so stupid.

The only porn films that I ever remember liking were at a foreign films theater... I believe they were French in origin...

Another Av... this is a small section of a pencil drawing from years ago, I think it was a fashion illustration piece... My freelance work was mostly commercial in nature... boring, but paid the bills.

 

[Starfire]

Snork ....

... this is WAR!!!

I agree that a lot of art appreciation is stuffy in extremis, and I thank you for responding to my post in detail (unlike Ari who just ignored it completely ), but anyone who says that "Blade Runner" is an overrated film deserves a public waxing!

And The Mona Lisa??? ... bag of shite!

Surrealism? ... go easy on those kidney beans, Salvador, I'm really a fish.

Okay - let's de-stuffify the art world - let's say that anything that is created is art, let's water it down until the word "art" has no meaning whatsoever. Apparently there is a West End show called "Art" where all the characters sit around interpreting and discussing the merits of a white wall. An artists here won the John Moores exhibition prize in Liverpool with a bare canvas, stating that he didn't feel like painting and that any mark he made on the canvas would detract from the intrinsic qualities of the raw material. I have just screwed up a piece of paper and have thrown it on the floor. Is it art? No. Why not? Because it is not in a gallery. It's litter. Tracey Emin's bed? Thousands of students have art like that in their dorms ....

And did I scoff at porn? Nahhh ... porn films are not art! There is, however, a multitude of "pornographic" art more artistic and arousing than a cherub twiddling the nipple of a nicely painted 16th Century courtesan posing as Venus!

Come on, SM ... fire back!

 

[Snork Maiden]

Taking out her nail file just to hone the edges of her perfectly manicured nails - now that's ART!, Sculpture and Painting making use of a variety of tools to create a visually pleasing result with the benefit of functionality!! Blowining lightly on her finger tips as she twirls the file deftly

Plucking on the exposed and sensitive flesh that is Blade Runner - what's that all about then ? I will be kind! Musical Score by Vangelis - Wonderful stuff I can't deny that, Ridley Scott using a notoriously 'Dark Set' like Alien, which by the way is a far superior Scott Film in Art Content and direction. But the film , blah, not even Harrison Ford makes up for the weakness and over playing of the plot, and the end LOL, what was with the sudden change in mood. Looked like a dead end plot from the start. pretty poor all the way through, lousy acting on the part of Sean what's her face, but never been a Sean Young fan anyway. Harrison was pretty good, but hey he's allowed to be. and Rutger well I thought the Hitcher was a much better role for him. So what about the film, Poor continuity, that has to be evident doesn't it why else would the drector insist on producing a directors cut of the film <shakes head> is that an attempt to make a weak plot stronger. What do we have then 3 cyborgs with built in life spans looking for the meaning of life, looking for God ! how cliche is that. You won't convince me although I have seen the film many times, I wouldn't rate it as the best of Ridley no way!

Mona Lisa, aw now come on, don't she have a perfectly expressionless face and yet full of expression. You can see the painting means something to the artist, doesn't do much for me but that's the point isn't it, surely a painter paints what he sees and does it for himself. Unless ofcourse it is a portrait commissioned for a fabulous amount of money in which case he doesn't really care what the picture looks like bending to the clients wishes. Straighten the mouth would ya, and the nose, hey while you about it how about making that a 36C and do a chin tug there's a hon

Surrealism, well at least it makes you actually stop and think a bit more, Is the artist poking fun at his audience or is there some hidden significance, and ofcourse only the Surreal Artist knows truely the answer to the question , "How many Banana's can you fit in Phone booth ?"

Just because it's not in gallery doesn't make it Art. How many Van Gogh's are there decaying gracefully in some vault. Let's face it, masterpieces are just Dollar Bills with hand painted details. $14m for a painting you'd have to be insane to spend that amount of money on a piece of cloth - I 'd settle for the $5.00 print

As I said before, the merits of a picture are is aesthetic qualities, the philosopy and BS that 'Art Critics' apply liberally with their palette knives only serves to exaggerate the misconception of what Painted Art is really all about. I actually find images of Cave Painting fascinating, more fascinating then say a fresco of the last supper, thats not to detract from the skill of the artist, but the subject and circumstance under which a piece of Art is produced.

In many cases Art is an important Documenter of a period of History, agreed, these merits are intrinsic in the actual art form giving us an idea of the period, but come on, nude women having a nipple tweak by a wing cherub no sorry - what that really is, is Hugh Hefner of the 16th Century.

No then the Porn thing, lushous I have no problem with Porn, Soft or Hard, I am not in to Kink but whats the definition of that.
Have I not posed naked, looks at her current AV, is that not Porn!
Is it artistic? who knows I wasn't feeling artistic when the picture was taken. I have to agree Porn films are a weak Art topic, I still think they do merit some credit, and the way in which women are used or portrayed in these thinks is important to me at least.

And whilst we are at it, painting naked women, taking pictures of naked women or making films of naked women does it not serve the same end ? so the mediums are different, the motives ?

Why don't you guys paint some naked MEN ! - Ari I think you have but I don't see any here

------

Advantage Ms Snork Maiden

 

[ariosto]

Holy merde!..what hath been released here!

Snork welcome back...I think!

Starfire I'll have to ratchit up the expertise level with my next candidate in Mystery Flesh.
It was indeed Bronzino's, Venus Cupid Folly and Time...an intricate
mannerist alegory which I will post in toto when I get back to my PC on whose harddrive it resides.
As for your image, I'll admit I don't know it, though I'd guess German Expressionist and guess Kirchner if pinned to the wall.

Now as for Snorks posts...gulp..I AIN"T GOT TIME TO ANSWER!
I will later, once the house has quited and I've sharpened the ends of my oil brushes to do battle with your nails.
I'll only say this at the moment...I've painted and drawn lots of males, mostly in artschool where the male figure is relied on to better illustrate the placement of anatomy...(muscle lying closer to the surface), but since that time I'd really rather draw breasts than cocks on any given day. It has to do with sex I think.
Someone once asked a famous artist why there were not more male nudes in art and the answer was because there were so few women artists and at least in an historical perspective thats true.

Star I did not mean to ignore your post...most sorry.
Snork I'm not finiished with you!

Arden the sketch in your av shows me that I want to see MORE!

Back later you ruffians.

 

[Starfire]

Snork ... just because I can't be arsed to do italics does not mean that I cannot file my nails ...puts emory board down

Now then, where were we ...

Blade Runner ... ah yes ... The oh so artistic Ridley (English) Scott was bulldozed by the oh so US studio (Warner Bros) into yanking back Harrison Ford to add a voice over because, they claimed, an American audience simply would not understand the film as Scott intended it to be read. Now why does that not surprise me? (hehehe) So ... the studio release version is, I agree, flawed, but I never mentioned that version in my original post. Hauer is good in The Hitcher, true, but it is not in the same league. The Alien films - well, atmospheric but hardly challenging. Much was made also of Ripley being a progressive representation of women in film, totally missing the fact that the role was written for a man ... Scott's casting changed that but he did not alter the script. And weren't there six cyborgs? I've only seen the studio release once so maybe they left three out for simplicity!

Picks up nail file and works on teeth Ahhh ... dear, sweet Giaconda. Have you ever seen it in the flesh? How disappointing. Queue for hours with the chattering hordes to see a small picture of a woman guarded by a guy in the Louvre. Still - it is better than The Green Lady. And as for da Vinci - do you really think he would want to be remembered for that "chocolate box" art? This is a guy who designed a helicopter at the turn of the 15th C! I do agree that a 36C would have been more appealing!

Q: How many bananas can you fit in a phone booth?
A: Camembert

Talking of art works in vaults and private collections ... did you ever see The Mark Thomas Comedy Product here in the UK? He exposed several people who had expensive art works and found out that they had not paid any tax on them. This was legal only if the works were available for the public to view. He arranged, via his Ch4 show, for the general public to turn up at such houses - including Rothschild - and demand to see the collections. A year later the owners had paid the tax in order to protect their privacy! Nice one !!

Is your AV porn? Nope - it is a nude potograph of yourself, albeit a nice one.

Right ... off to paint a naked man .....

 

[Starfire]

Ari ... German Expressionist? Nahhhhh ... I am the champion of British artists! Psssst ... he was a sculptor and he was not Henry Moore!

 

[Snork Maiden]

More Snork Ramblings..............

There may well have been 6 cyborgs - actually I don't think they were cyborgs coming to think of it rather genetic clones but anyway I can remember 4 now so you may be right - there was Leon, Priss, there was one with a Snake, Zelda or something and then Rutger's character but it was a bit of a Spielberg plot wasn't it weepy weepy, poor Rachel who had the implanted memories of her creators niece and only a few years to live.

Alien, I have the novel it a bit raggedy now and I am pretty certain Ripley was always female, infact it is one of those occurances where the film follows the book very well which is pretty strange. Fabulous work from HR Giger. Now that is art I can appreciate, perhaps it's fantasy surrealism appeals to me but I already confessed to being surrealist fan. Escher too coming to think of it perhaps it is that philospical side to art that appeals to me like Magritte's 'This is not a Pipe' these things to me invoke intelligent thought, philosophical discussion as opposed to esoteric physco anaylsis of the artist true intentions.

Yes I agree Da Vinci was indeed a talented man infact much less an artist than a philosopher or inventor he chose his cloaks to suit his purpose, doubtless inspired by Machiavelli. As with a lot of renaissance artists he was driven by the times and the turbulence of the period, It was a good time to be an artist and for a while he was, whilst it was profitable to be so.

So how about buying a $14m Van Gogh , can you tell me some dowdy splatterings that might resemble sunflowers can be worth all that. He was hardly a notable artist at the time, is it the pomposity of collectors that dictates the price, Hey that Van Gogh Guy he slashed off an ear how cool, respect dude, let have some of that ! what about Giovanni De Gerbibi nah sad dude, never did any outrageous stuff obscure we don't need none of those scratchings cluttering our halls.

Why can people just be honest and say hey nice pic, my 10 year daughter did one just like that !

Durer, did Durer paint Durer, did Shakespeare write Shakespeare, I don't know, do you, so much imitation, is this where the 'Art' fallacy falls apart, who know who really painted tha well know masterpeice.

Galleries, well I can say no never been in one, probably never will why should I, you see it does me no good to sit and postulate over a picture of a tree when I can look at a real one. Is Art Appreciation then just freudian physcho analysis of an artist.. Here we see another famous sea battle as painted by Turner, You can really feel the power of the cannon, smell the smoke haze blah blah ..

Nice picture ... good color use.... next

Camembert indeed or something equally offensive smelling is ofcourse correct....

Who cares if the art is locked away, it is only locked away because people allow to to be so and because the pieces have such ridiculous price tags that no one dares to handle them.

You never know somewhere there might even be a picture of Christ painted by some obscure Jewish peasant of dubious ability. My goodness if that was ever found how wonderful an artist he would be!!!

 

[mya]

Gulp, I'm not jumping into this heated debate!

Though I'd like to just say hi each of you--Ari, Starfire, Snork, Angel and Arden!

Arden, I agree that it would be great to see more of that AV you're sporting.

And to Dear Ari, I love the pics you've done while contemplating the possibility of trading cards. They're beautiful!

And Star...I'm anxious to see some of HK's scans! Did you forget them in amongst the great debate?

 

[ariosto]

DaVinci when once queried as to his many interests and achievements said it was all "To make of me a better painter."
For DaVinci at least art was quite important and hardly a sideline to his career as a sientist/inventor. He trained for it from the age of 9 and died as the Court painter for KIng FrancisI.

I hardly know where to begin, and in fact must state with all candor, that I am not one to play long verbal games over the nature of art. I'm some what Zen in that. The work is there...like it, or not.
To argue such things is tantamount to argiung the existance of God.

So I'll not answer point by point the statements made by Star and Snork.
Obviously as one who's given the better part of his life to the making of images and seen them bought and appreciated, made good use of in one way or another, I see the visual arts as quite imoportant.

I do make a distinction between creative and performing arts.
Not a qualitative one but rather having a different set of values from each other.

I have some problems with music myself. There is much I detest, there is much that under no kind of persuasion I would consider art. I do not however deny that it might be considered art by others.
We all have and should have preferences in the visual arts, just as we do in music.
The Arts like Science have hyper specialized and no longer reach a more or less universal audience.
And it is the esthetics and expectations of the audience they do reach that determine the value of works created within that specialization.

I find most current popular music, annoying and enormously self indulgent.
But I'm not fond abstract expressionism either.
I find Opera moving and poignant , full of color and drama....I love it.
I find Baroque painting moving and poignant, full of color and I love it!
See, that's the room I live in artisticaly.
We all have our rooms.

Snork here's one for you...
A quote from I'm not sure who,
"When future generations look at XXcentury art, it will not be the painters and sculptors that will be remembered, it will be the film makers."

And that ends the longest post you are likely to see from me here!

I'm enjoying the rhetoric guys are you?
I mean if someone is getting angry then lets drift on to less contentious things.

 

[Starfire]

Contentious???

Ari - surely this is a harmless bit of fun. Far from being angry I have read Snork's words with a smile on my face and I hope that she has read mine in the same way. If I am wrong then I have mis-judged.

Snork - I enjoyed/am enjoying your words and the passion with which you write. The thought that you might be angry never even entered my head until Ari put it there, so I will wait until I hear from you again.

Mya - I haven't forgotten about HK's scans (see later )

Arden - like the others have said, it would be nice to see more of your work.

Angel - a big hello to you.

This is the basis of HK's piece:

 

[Starfire]

... and the next stage ...

Have a great day, everyone!

 

[Starfire]

and the next stage of mine, though as I have said there are a lot of things I am not happy with right now.