When things move beyond Literotica

[Lee9104]

What a wonderful attitude. You really are amazing and I have no doubt that you will come out of this a stronger person.

Hi Proudsubinatl~
Thanks. I hope not only stronger but wiser.

 

[Lee9104]

I was reeled in by a guy I met on-line, too, not on Lit, though. He went out of his way to convince me he was interested. After two canceled meetings I finally put it all together and realized I was getting royally jerked around. I wanted to go to the forum where we met and post what a jerk he was...I didn't...and he disappeared a few days later.

I think Lee alluded to part of the frustration one feels in that situation when it's impossible to understand why a person would act in such a way. But, there is no reasonable explanation because it's unreasonable behavior. I doubt the person doing it understands what's going on.


I did meet someone from Lit and he was a prince and everything he said he would be.

Hi Katze~

I wish I could believe that he does or did not know what he was doing but he is an intelligent man and as heart breaking as it may be to think he did this knowingly that is what I think and feel.
Glad to hear about your prince I guess I am still in the frog stage lol.

 

[FinnMacCool]

Well again I have met fellow Litsters and a wonderful time was had by all,and the best of this is that there will be a friendship that has formed,unlessing one or both of these vixens get too fiesty,then the flogging will continue until their morale has improved,lol..Tir Na Nog!!

 

[Guttergoddess]

Well again I have met fellow Litsters and a wonderful time was had by all,and the best of this is that there will be a friendship that has formed,unlessing one or both of these vixens get too fiesty,then the flogging will continue until their morale has improved,lol..Tir Na Nog!!

Promising floggings won't stop us from being feisty...it'll make us behave more like spoiled brats!

 

[celticlass]

Fantastic Thread

I was just chatting with another Litster last night about where the line between cyber and r/l is. He suggested that r/l happens at that first meeting. I think that r/l starts when things go offline, like telephone. I'm currently mourning the loss of contact with two fabulous online friends/loves for various reasons.

One was married, and we'd been chatting/cybering, emailing and phoning for over 7 months. We met in a chat room. We both knew the other was married; we kept things in the open and while we'd talked about meeting and had made plans to meet a couple of times, I think we both knew that we were ultimately meant to only be friends with cyber benefits. My hubby knows all about him and actually appreciates all the encouragement and support that this guy would give me. I still consider him one of my dearest friends, despite the fact that his wife has done everything she possibly can to keep us from continuing to have contact with each other (even going so far as to sending me hate mail).

The other was quite a bit different. I posit to anyone reading this that is it very possible to fall in love with someone you've never met, mostly through chatting and hours on the phone every day. He and I met when he gave me feedback on my very first Lit submission. Again, total honesty. He knew I was married, though things were very strained at the time. He had entertained the possibility of moving down here to be with me; I'd likewise entertained the possibility of leaving my husband and moving to be with him (despite the fact he lives up north and I HATE cold weather). I'd told him, though, that there was no way I could make promises about our future. Long story short... Right as our relationship was hitting a very rough week, something changed between DH and me and our relationship took a major turn for the better. I want to remain friends with this guy, but while he'll always think of me as a friend, he wants me to consider him dead.

My point? Not sure. I guess it's this: Despite being completely honest with each other, we all ended up hurt. The first guy and I are both suffering from the loss of regular communication. The second guy ended up badly hurt, which was never my intention, and because we do share a pretty phenomenal connection, I'm hurting, too.

Lee, I'm sorry to hear about your horrible experience. That was painful to go through and the guy was a total, complete jerk to do that to you. There are some very awesome guys (and gals) out there; I've met a few here in the forums and through the story section. I've got two guys I met online who live closeby (one from the aforementioned chat room and one from Lit), and we'll tag for lunch once a month, plus chat, email and talk on the phone. They're just really great friends, the kind I can call bawling my eyes out when something's wrong. Recently I've made a couple of fem friends who are just incredible! So, don't give up. You seem to have a lot to offer.

 

[FinnMacCool]

Ahh,fiesty vixens,canna live with them,but you can spank them*WEG*..Tir Na Nog!!

Promising floggings won't stop us from being feisty...it'll make us behave more like spoiled brats!

 

[Lee9104]

Lee, I'm sorry to hear about your horrible experience. That was painful to go through and the guy was a total, complete jerk to do that to you. There are some very awesome guys (and gals) out there; I've met a few here in the forums and through the story section. I've got two guys I met online who live closeby (one from the aforementioned chat room and one from Lit), and we'll tag for lunch once a month, plus chat, email and talk on the phone. They're just really great friends, the kind I can call bawling my eyes out when something's wrong. Recently I've made a couple of fem friends who are just incredible! So, don't give up. You seem to have a lot to offer.

Hi Celticlass~

I think you are right in saying that things move to real life when things go offline. When you start talking on the phone for hours at a time it can't get anymore real life then that. I have had several very close relationships with men online. The amount of time we spent on the cell phones and my home phone getting to know each other was unbelievable at times. If you truly make that connection you can talk to someone for hours and hours about anything and everything. The bond you make the closeness you feel for the person after time is very real. I am sorry you are having to go through your loss of both of your friends at the same time. Not to say it would be any easier one at a time. A loss is a loss and a heart break is gut wrenching anyway you slice it. Feel free to PM me anytime should you want/need to talk.

 

[celticlass]

Hi Celticlass~

I think you are right in saying that things move to real life when things go offline. When you start talking on the phone for hours at a time it can't get anymore real life then that. I have had several very close relationships with men online. The amount of time we spent on the cell phones and my home phone getting to know each other was unbelievable at times. If you truly make that connection you can talk to someone for hours and hours about anything and everything. The bond you make the closeness you feel for the person after time is very real. I am sorry you are having to go through your loss of both of your friends at the same time. Not to say it would be any easier one at a time. A loss is a loss and a heart break is gut wrenching anyway you slice it. Feel free to PM me anytime should you want/need to talk.

Lee,

Thanks! I appreciate that. Even after everything, I keep them updated. I called the second guy yesterday on my way home to let him know that my daughter has an ear infection (they'd seen each other on cam and adored each other. He's online right now (on my chat list), and I'm so tempted to IM him. We used to spend hours on Saturdays talking/camming, and I miss that! I know what you mean about the connection. We'd share thoughts (I mean, like we shared a brain - we'd always be thinking alike) and had many common interests. *Sigh* Wish I could place a kiss right over his heart and make the hurt go away, but I can't.

Alright. I'll stop moping here. I've got to get back to work, anyway. We're undertaking a major clean-up/rearranging project, which isn't easy to do with a toddler underfoot.

~CL

 

[wondermankd]

celticlass, hi,

would you care to chat?

 

[celticlass]

celticlass, hi,

would you care to chat?

Sure! I'll be back and forth all afternoon and probably some this evening. We're involved in a major clean-up/rearranging project, but breaks are always welcome!

 

[Katze]

Real life

For me, going from writing to the phone still doesn't approach real life. I can certainly learn more about someone on the phone, but there's still the question of how would this all translate to day to day life, including doing the dishes? I also think it's impossible to really know someone until you see that person in action on a consistent basis.

Alternatively, I'd like to think I know myself well enough to represent myself accurately, but would that other person feel the same after watching me over a period of days?

I've had a couple opportunities to have an on-line and then on the phone relationship, one still ongoing - outside of my marriage and their marriages - and the duplicity involved inevitably makes me think the relationship is rooted in escapism. I don't care if we talk about the most mundane of topics, we're doing so outside the arena of our "normal" lives. I don't really cite that as a criticism; I take it to heart for myself as a warning: to not get too emotionally invested and to stay aware of how the outside relationship is taking me away from what I need to be doing with my life when I'm not on-line or on the phone. On the other hand, it does allow me to see that perhaps I'm not living the way I'd like to and consider ways to change.

Forgive my rambling. This topic has been much on my mind lately. Also, what I say is only my experience and opinion. I'm willing to accept that others have on-line and phone relationships that are as "real" as any that take place face to face and day to day.

 

[Lee9104]

Hi Katze~

Thanks for your post. Everyone tends to see things in there own way. I don't feel one way is right or wrong. I know you can't truly know a person until you are face to face in some ways. Some say you can't truly know them until you live with them lol. But for the most part I think you can get a pretty good idea of what kind of person they are from online chatting, emails and phone calls. Enough to know if you should take it to the next level and meet the person. Although you can still be taken for a ride at anytime if the person is not being honest.

 

[celticlass]

For me, going from writing to the phone still doesn't approach real life. I can certainly learn more about someone on the phone, but there's still the question of how would this all translate to day to day life, including doing the dishes? I also think it's impossible to really know someone until you see that person in action on a consistent basis.

I know what you're saying, Kat. I would never do anything major without first meeting the person. Everyone with whom I've had an online relationship recognizes the importance of meeting irl to see if there's any chemistry irl. Only actually living with someone can help you see how that person will be on a 24/7 basis. When DH and I first got married, those first six months were HARD! I'd been living by myself for quite a few years, and it was a difficult adjustment going from having all that space to myself to sharing it.

Being married, I also struggled with the sense of not living as I knew I was supposed to while I was involved with other men online. I guess just the wham-bam-thank you ma'am cybering is one thing, but actually developing a relationship is something else entirely. As those relationships ended for whatever reason, I was able to take a step back and see what they were giving me that DH wasn't. I felt less guilty about my involvement in these relationships because I was very open with DH about them. He'd tell me to tell the guys "hi" when he found out we were chatting. I felt genuinely bad for one guy and his wife, because he was having to come to me to get what he wasn't getting from her. He deserved to get that from his bride, and even though I don't know his wife and should probably hate her, I just pitied her for risking losing such an incredible, sweet, attractive man.

Just my rambling thoughts and 2 cents' worth.

 

[celticlass]

But for the most part I think you can get a pretty good idea of what kind of person they are from online chatting, emails and phone calls. Enough to know if you should take it to the next level and meet the person. Although you can still be taken for a ride at anytime if the person is not being honest.

Yep, exactly. I can "sense" when someone's being genuine or not, and I can tell when there's a very good online chemistry. One guy with whom I'd been chatting for a while thought that when we met, we'd fall madly in love with each other and want to leave our spouses to be together. I wasn't feeling this, but didn't want to hurt him. I said, "Don't you think if we were meant to be the great love match of the 21st century, we'd know by now?" He replied, "Reality gets in the way." And this was from a guy who didn't understand how it's possible to love someone you've never met. As long as the person's being honest (the great qualifier), online communication and talking on the phone can be a good way to guage the wisdom of taking things farther.

 

[Katze]

Openness

I know what you're saying, Kat. I would never do anything major without first meeting the person. Everyone with whom I've had an online relationship recognizes the importance of meeting irl to see if there's any chemistry irl. Only actually living with someone can help you see how that person will be on a 24/7 basis. When DH and I first got married, those first six months were HARD! I'd been living by myself for quite a few years, and it was a difficult adjustment going from having all that space to myself to sharing it.

Being married, I also struggled with the sense of not living as I knew I was supposed to while I was involved with other men online. I guess just the wham-bam-thank you ma'am cybering is one thing, but actually developing a relationship is something else entirely. As those relationships ended for whatever reason, I was able to take a step back and see what they were giving me that DH wasn't. I felt less guilty about my involvement in these relationships because I was very open with DH about them. He'd tell me to tell the guys "hi" when he found out we were chatting. I felt genuinely bad for one guy and his wife, because he was having to come to me to get what he wasn't getting from her. He deserved to get that from his bride, and even though I don't know his wife and should probably hate her, I just pitied her for risking losing such an incredible, sweet, attractive man.

Just my rambling thoughts and 2 cents' worth.

I've had the same experience of stepping back to see what I'm getting from the other relationship versus the marriage. Although there is compatiblity in terms of sexual expression, what I reallly enjoy is the intellectual stimulation and feeling accepted. I don't self-edit when I'm talking to this other person; sometimes I'm waiting for the type of response I'll get from my husband - some non sequitur or a disagreeable remark - and when it doesn't happen I realize what I'm putting up with at home.

It's awesome you were able to be open with your husband. I wish I could be, too, but I know it will only cause hurt feelings and more misunderstandings. As others have mentioned, I feel a lot of guilt, which makes the issues even more cloudy.

 

[celticlass]

I've had the same experience of stepping back to see what I'm getting from the other relationship versus the marriage. Although there is compatiblity in terms of sexual expression, what I reallly enjoy is the intellectual stimulation and feeling accepted. I don't self-edit when I'm talking to this other person; sometimes I'm waiting for the type of response I'll get from my husband - some non sequitur or a disagreeable remark - and when it doesn't happen I realize what I'm putting up with at home.

It's awesome you were able to be open with your husband. I wish I could be, too, but I know it will only cause hurt feelings and more misunderstandings. As others have mentioned, I feel a lot of guilt, which makes the issues even more cloudy.

No question that there were some hurt feelings. The worst came when I realized that I would've gladly left my husband for the guy up north. DH realized it, too, and what was even worse is, he knew that it was his behavior that'd led up to that point. I'd given him a gazillion chances to change, telling him what he was doing that I didn't like (lying, mostly, as well as being irresponsible). He's finally stepped up to the plate and started behaving like the husband I want him to be.

I so know what you mean about intellectual stimulation. Acceptance isn't something I've had to worry about. I adore a man who can stimulate me mentally and make me laugh. If he can do both of those things, then it's a no-brainer that he'll be able to turn me on sexually. This guy... Mmmmmmmm... He is sooooooo intelligent and he's made me cry more from humor than from sadness; how beautiful is that? And I still get some very pleasant tingles when I think of the other ways he stimulated me.

Well, actually, it was lack of acceptance that led to me and this great guy breaking up. I was extremely, abnormally hormonal, and he had to bear the brunt of it. I unintentionally hurt him with my behavior, but I also needed him to accept that it was a passing thing and that this wasn't really me. He wasn't able to move past his hurt to do that. OK. I'm going to get maudlin if I keep this up, so I'll stop now.

 

[Katze]

Bummer....

No question that there were some hurt feelings. The worst came when I realized that I would've gladly left my husband for the guy up north. DH realized it, too, and what was even worse is, he knew that it was his behavior that'd led up to that point. I'd given him a gazillion chances to change, telling him what he was doing that I didn't like (lying, mostly, as well as being irresponsible). He's finally stepped up to the plate and started behaving like the husband I want him to be.

I so know what you mean about intellectual stimulation. Acceptance isn't something I've had to worry about. I adore a man who can stimulate me mentally and make me laugh. If he can do both of those things, then it's a no-brainer that he'll be able to turn me on sexually. This guy... Mmmmmmmm... He is sooooooo intelligent and he's made me cry more from humor than from sadness; how beautiful is that? And I still get some very pleasant tingles when I think of the other ways he stimulated me.

Well, actually, it was lack of acceptance that led to me and this great guy breaking up. I was extremely, abnormally hormonal, and he had to bear the brunt of it. I unintentionally hurt him with my behavior, but I also needed him to accept that it was a passing thing and that this wasn't really me. He wasn't able to move past his hurt to do that. OK. I'm going to get maudlin if I keep this up, so I'll stop now.

My husband also changed the worst of the behaviors I had been citing off and on for a long time - this after I served him with divorce papers. The damage has been done though, and I'm just not open with him emotionally anymore and I don't see signs that encourage me to be otherwise. My struggle right now is to not fill up the emptiness I feel with too much fantasizing, food or alcohol. I'm thinking about what things I can give myself that will fill up the emptiness, and also other ways I can make emotional connections with others. I'm struggling with it a lot right now.

I'm so sorry about the way your situation ended. Perhaps Time will soften his stance. I hope so.

 

[Lee9104]

Yep, exactly. I can "sense" when someone's being genuine or not, and I can tell when there's a very good online chemistry. One guy with whom I'd been chatting for a while thought that when we met, we'd fall madly in love with each other and want to leave our spouses to be together. I wasn't feeling this, but didn't want to hurt him. I said, "Don't you think if we were meant to be the great love match of the 21st century, we'd know by now?" He replied, "Reality gets in the way." And this was from a guy who didn't understand how it's possible to love someone you've never met. As long as the person's being honest (the great qualifier), online communication and talking on the phone can be a good way to guage the wisdom of taking things farther.

Hi Celtic~

I could not agree more. I have had some pretty good luck with the online chemistry. But when you bring dishonesty and decitfulness into the mix you enter a hole different ball park. All the chemistry in the world would not make me trust the peson ever again. As they say to many fish in the sea. So I cast that line and try again hoping to catch a real man this time. One with honor and honesty.

 

[celticlass]

I doubted...

My husband also changed the worst of the behaviors I had been citing off and on for a long time - this after I served him with divorce papers. The damage has been done though, and I'm just not open with him emotionally anymore and I don't see signs that encourage me to be otherwise. My struggle right now is to not fill up the emptiness I feel with too much fantasizing, food or alcohol. I'm thinking about what things I can give myself that will fill up the emptiness, and also other ways I can make emotional connections with others. I'm struggling with it a lot right now.

I'm so sorry about the way your situation ended. Perhaps Time will soften his stance. I hope so.

I doubted that things with hubby would've ever improved. It looked like it was the end. I threatened to leave him a few times. I'm glad now that I didn't; our daughter didn't need that.

I think the guy's stance is softening a little. We've spoken a couple of times. I'm starting to remember all the great, wonderful times with him - his sweetness and the way he really knew me. It's making me have regrets myself.

~CL

 

[celticlass]

Hi Celtic~

I could not agree more. I have had some pretty good luck with the online chemistry. But when you bring dishonesty and decitfulness into the mix you enter a hole different ball park. All the chemistry in the world would not make me trust the peson ever again. As they say to many fish in the sea. So I cast that line and try again hoping to catch a real man this time. One with honor and honesty.

Once they start lying, that's it. It's hard enough for me to trust people, anyway; it really has to be earned. However, because it's fragile, it can be easily lost.

~CL

 

[Lee9104]

Once they start lying, that's it. It's hard enough for me to trust people, anyway; it really has to be earned. However, because it's fragile, it can be easily lost.

~CL

Hi Celticlass~

I think once you have been hurt, taken for a ride, involved with someone that played you, was less then honest with you, that you put up a wall to protect yourself from having that happen again. I think it is only natural that it makes it harder for us to trust again. What is even worse in my eyes anyway is when you have been upfront with a new person explaining your history and that truth, honesty, and communication are very important in relationships you now seek. Then that person after telling you he would never be anything but honest with you is found out to be just like the ones before him that made you distrust to begin with. The ones that made you build that wall to protect yourself that you let go of knowing in your "heart of hearts" this person was different this person was real and true. He would never do anything to hurt you. But he did because *HE* was not honest. Then you have to see if you can bring yourself to *TRUST* the next one that comes along. Best of luck to you and me. Maybe I need a bit of that Irish luck someone has been talking about.

 

[Katze]

Trust

It's hard to do the share-check-share thing with someone on-line: that is, I share, I see how the other person responds, he shares, I see how his actions line up with his words (and hopefully he's doing the same with me) and trust builds over time.

If most of the communication is by phone or in writing there is so much that has to be taken on faith. I'm not saying someone right next door can't fool you (and I had a horrific example of that happen this year) but there are chances to get a general idea of someone's reputation. Add to that the natural propensity of human beings to present themselves in the best light, particularly at the beginning of a romance, and it's hard to avoid getting hurt sometimes.

I have found some questions that if answered, can reveal a lot about someone else, and I've had those questions posed to me by men who have been through the mill in the dating world, on - and off-line. I used to think people were entirely too paranoid about "red flags", but I've been burned and then learned.

 

[markyoni]

wow

I met myself online and I was pleasantly surprised...I was not AT ALL like I had expected me to be.

 

[LoisLane]

I met myself online and I was pleasantly surprised...I was not AT ALL like I had expected me to be.

Yeah, you look like Rupert.

 

[celticlass]

Lee...

Yet, despite being lied to, we still want to trust and believe that the guy is what he says he is. So, we believe them and hope that this one will be true. Yeah, I've met some duds, but I've met some good ones, too. There are some guys who are worth taking the chance on and risking it. It seems like you're like me in that, you'll keep on offering them the trust, because you want to believe the best in people.

Yeah, good luck to both of us. My Irish luck has been fading lately. Well, kinda. It seems to have taken a turn for the better.